PVE gated by PVP

[Wolfshart]

I didn't know where else to discuss this so here it goes. I have noticed after talking to a few players in large endgame guilds that the criteria for joining endgame PVE content is based largely off of what PVP gear people have. I know people love the PVP aspect and more power to them, but I don't. I want to play PVE and could care less about PVP. As it stands now people are being denied access to raids, unless they posses the necessary stats. I fully understand this but the answer given is that to get the PVE gear from HM OPS/FPs one must first grind PVP to gear up in preparation for these raids. There is a large disparity here for these two aspect of the game. Essentially we are gating PVE content by requiring players to grind in PVP. That's not how it should be. Maybe this is a throw back to WoW, but I wouldn't know since I refused to ever play that game. I played EQ1 for many, many years and PVE content is where it is at for me. The bleed over from PVP to PVE is very discouraging...

[Grubfist]

I didn't know where else to discuss this so here it goes. I have noticed after talking to a few players in large endgame guilds that the criteria for joining endgame PVE content is based largely off of what PVP gear people have. I know people love the PVP aspect and more power to them, but I don't. I want to play PVE and could care less about PVP. As it stands now people are being denied access to raids, unless they posses the necessary stats. I fully understand this but the answer given is that to get the PVE gear from HM OPS/FPs one must first grind PVP to gear up in preparation for these raids. There is a large disparity here for these two aspect of the game. Essentially we are gating PVE content by requiring players to grind in PVP. That's not how it should be. Maybe this is a throw back to WoW, but I wouldn't know since I refused to ever play that game. I played EQ1 for many, many years and PVE content is where it is at for me. The bleed over from PVP to PVE is very discouraging...

 

You can do HMs easily with crafted purples/level 50 normal FP gear.

 

These are very easy things to attain, since money means nothing at 50 with the Ilum and Belsavis dailies.

[rolotomasi]

wasn't tionese & columni comm also increased? the reason pvp gear is easier to obtain is you can queue solo where as you need to get 4 ppl to do FP. plus saved friend cannot help you.

 

however, pve gear have more stat than pvp gear. pve gear have more advantage in pve. go farm your FP.

[Metalmac]

I have to say you are correct.

 

Absolutly no one on my server that I know of has done a single level 50 raid.

 

99.5% of the players do PVP as getting 120 tokens of daily PVE tokens to buy one PVE piece of gear is just INSANE.

 

It would take you 8 hours per day for 180 days to get all the gear from the PVE vendor.

 

Bio Ware says 26 tokens a day so 120/26=4.6 days at 8 hours in a day for 1 piece of gear.

 

Head, Legs, Feet, Wrist, Waist, Hands and Chest would be 840/26=32.2 8 hours days!!!!

 

Compare that to the PVP gear that is like 1/8th as much time. PVE is screwed.

[Wolfshart]

You can do HMs easily with crafted purples/level 50 normal FP gear.

 

These are very easy things to attain, since money means nothing at 50 with the Ilum and Belsavis dailies.

 

That's not a view many others have it seems. The required stats people are using as criteria can not be obtained other then from gear from HM FPs and or PVP.

 

wasn't tionese & columni comm also increased? the reason pvp gear is easier to obtain is you can queue solo where as you need to get 4 ppl to do FP. plus saved friend cannot help you.

 

however, pve gear have more stat than pvp gear. pve gear have more advantage in pve. go farm your FP.

 

If you think I'm suggesting pve gear should be increased to make pve player viable in pvp I am not (they should be kept as separate aspects of the game)...that being said the current progression many are using as criteria for raids is to grind pvp gear in order to get in to endgame FPs/Ops to get higher lvl PVE gear. My point is that no one should be forced (even if it is a perception issue) to grind pvp gear in order to progress in pve.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Wolfshart

[macumba]

this should not be news. the easiest way to obtain preraid gear is to get the welfare epics that are handed out to pvp'ers for free Edited February 9, 2012 by macumba

[Grubfist]

I have to say you are correct.

 

Absolutly no one on my server that I know of has done a single level 50 raid.

 

99.5% of the players do PVP as getting 120 tokens of daily PVE tokens to buy one PVE piece of gear is just INSANE.

 

It would take you 8 hours per day for 180 days to get all the gear from the PVE vendor.

 

Bio Ware says 26 tokens a day so 120/26=4.6 days at 8 hours in a day for 1 piece of gear.

 

Head, Legs, Feet, Wrist, Waist, Hands and Chest would be 840/26=32.2 8 hours days!!!!

 

Compare that to the PVP gear that is like 1/8th as much time. PVE is screwed.

 

Tier 2 guaranteed main set piece every day from EACH hardmode flashpoint endboss. Tier 1 equivalents/set pieces dropping off earlier bosses. Farm 3-4 HM Flashpoints a day like my casual guild did a month ago...

[Grubfist]

That's not a view many others have it seems. The required stats people are using as criteria can not be obatined other then from gear from HM FPs and or PVP.

 

Lack of confidence and reliance on gear are signs of a bad guild and/or bad server. Why are you interested in them for pve?

 

Might wanna think about re-rolling on a new server.

[Wolfshart]

Tier 2 guaranteed main set piece every day from EACH hardmode flashpoint endboss. Tier 1 equivalents/set pieces dropping off earlier bosses. Farm 3-4 HM Flashpoints a day like my casual guild did a month ago...

 

The point is that people can't get into these HM FPs to get this gear without a progression through pvp... There should be a more distinct seperation of PVP and PVE gear.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Wolfshart

[Acyu]

Actually, PvE gear is much easier to get.

 

PvP is easier only if you have no friends to play with.

 

Both HM flashpoints and Normal Operations only require some very obtainable purple/craft gears that can be purchased on the GTN.

 

And operations can be done REALLY FAST and drop A TON of loots. They're WAY faster than some of the longer flashpoints. If you know what you're doing, you can do normal EV in like an hour.

[Grubfist]

The point is that people can't get into these HM FPs to get this gear without a progression through pvp... There should be a more distinct seperation of PVP and PVE gear.

 

Except that they CAN, by buying crafted purples or making crafted purples. You can't hold Bioware responsible for some guilds' stupid expectations.

[Wolfshart]

Except that they CAN, by buying crafted purples or making crafted purples. You can't hold Bioware responsible for some guilds' stupid expectations.

 

I think the expectation is there because there isn't enough of a gap between the two gear sets. Good PVP gear should be good for PVP and not PVE raid content... As for crafting/GTN, on my server at least, these are not as easily obtainable as you would think...

Edited February 9, 2012 by Wolfshart

[Grubfist]

I think the expectation is there because there isn't enough of a gap between the two gear sets. Good PVP gear should be good for PVP and not PVE raid content... As for crafting/GTN, on my server at least, these are not as easily obtainable as you would think...

 

I found a random drop set of purple gloves that was better than champion gear for pve while questing on Corellia. There are tons of boxes you can buy that give purples (fleet commendations and Corellia are the best), and REing to get purples is easy.

 

You also can't blame BW for people's laziness.

[pglee]

do your lvl 50 PVE daily quests.... if you do all of them on the 2 correct planets(not telling you which ones, go find out yourself) u get lvl 50 epic mods, armoring, hilts/barrels and enhancements.

 

Hilts/barrels + armoring are bought from the npc in ilum. However, the epic mod/ enhancements are from the daily heroics. Enhancement is from heroic on ilum and mod is from the heroic on unsaid planet.

 

These items are grade 51 epic quality, and are EQUAL to centurion pvp gear(minus the expertise). If you had actually bothered to do all your pve quests, you would know where to get these items.

 

Should be way easier for you to find a group for these heroic dailies + normal dailies then a hard FP. These dailies were meant to be done be4 people went on hm's (for those non-pvp'ers)

 

Daily quests(22 tokens total per day if u do them all) > HM fp's > normal raid > hard raid etccc

[GrandMike]

Ilum heroic 2 quest - purple enhancement

Belsavis heroic 2 quest - purple mod

Belsavis heroic 4 quest - purple armoring

 

Daily commendations - rakata implants/earpiece 51 armorings/barrels/hilts

 

You can be decked out in full 50 purplz in a week of doing dailies (sans rakata pieces, but crafted are pretty good for that level).

 

Anyone that requires higher than that for HM FPs/OPS should be avoided in large arc (especially since difference between champion and this gear is very small).

[Elysion]

Most classes (all?) optimal pvp setup involves getting pvp gear, then getting pve gear to switch around mods, and occasionally using parts of the pve sets for mixing set bonuses

 

'pvpers' need to pve in this game to be optimal, they just dont need to do it first.

 

I cant see a reason any pve player would want pvp stuff at all however other than maybe it will be easier for them to get a pvp set than some starting pve stuff, but there are plenty of options for pve only advancement.

 

I would like to see them make BM gear a little more PVE viable due to this when used in mix and match situations. It would be nice to, having had to get both pvp and pve gear to pvp, be able to use said gear in pve as well for the sake of looks with out being penalized.

 

That or just let players have two equipment pages, one thats active in pvp zones and one in pve zones.

 

I hate having to manually switch gear, it breaks the immersion

Edited February 9, 2012 by Elysion

[Scyrar]

A friend of mine became yesterday at 5pm level 50 with his second char. He went to eternity vault at 6pm and left it at 9pm with 3 pieces of his columni set.

It's a joke how fast you get your gear. Both pvp and pve, so stop whining.

[Grubfist]

Most classes (all?) optimal pvp setup involves getting pvp gear, then getting pve gear to switch around mods, and occasionally using parts of the pve sets for mixing set bonuses

 

'pvpers' need to pve in this game to be optimal, they just dont need to do it first.

 

I cant see a reason any pve player would want pvp stuff at all however other than maybe it will be easier for them to get a pvp set than some starting pve stuff, but there are plenty of options for pve only advancement.

 

I would like to see them make BM gear a little more PVE viable due to this when used in mix and match situations. It would be nice to, having had to get both pvp and pve gear to pvp, be able to use said gear in pve as well for the sake of looks with out being penalized.

 

That or just let players have two equipment pages, one thats active in pvp zones and one in pve zones.

 

I hate having to manually switch gear, it breaks the immersion

 

It's NOT easier to get PvP stuff. It's easier to get PvP stuff IF YOU REFUSE TO INTERACT WITH PEOPLE.

[TheRFC]

I have to say you are correct.

 

Absolutly no one on my server that I know of has done a single level 50 raid.

 

99.5% of the players do PVP as getting 120 tokens of daily PVE tokens to buy one PVE piece of gear is just INSANE.

 

It would take you 8 hours per day for 180 days to get all the gear from the PVE vendor.

 

Bio Ware says 26 tokens a day so 120/26=4.6 days at 8 hours in a day for 1 piece of gear.

 

Head, Legs, Feet, Wrist, Waist, Hands and Chest would be 840/26=32.2 8 hours days!!!!

 

Compare that to the PVP gear that is like 1/8th as much time. PVE is screwed.

 

Ha, you're really screwed now less they've changed the system because they literally THROW PvP gear at people

[TheRFC]

A friend of mine became yesterday at 5pm level 50 with his second char. He went to eternity vault at 6pm and left it at 9pm with 3 pieces of his columni set.

It's a joke how fast you get your gear. Both pvp and pve, so stop whining.

 

Yeah, it really is.

 

The new system for PvP which throw gear at people? In 15 minutes you can have nearly 200 expertise ...

 

Getting gear gradually is what keeps (especially SWTOR's due to lack of end-game content and PvP variety in general) you going back. People are going to realise fast that they're grinding 3 WZs for no reason other than a title.

[Wolfshart]

A friend of mine became yesterday at 5pm level 50 with his second char. He went to eternity vault at 6pm and left it at 9pm with 3 pieces of his columni set.

It's a joke how fast you get your gear. Both pvp and pve, so stop whining.

 

So he had a "second" character hit 50 twinked out from his first, most likely in a higher end guild with others propping him up that used pvp gear progression to get to EV... good job on completely "WoWing" up the conversation with personal attacks.

 

From what I have heard 1400 primary stat is required to raid HM ops, I do dailies and have crunched the numbers, following that route still can't get you to the seemingly random stat min people are talking about. Again I'm not suggesting PVP be penalized in any way, maybe that assumption is the cause for the aggression I'm seeing... Also I agree that battlemaster gear should be epic and viable in pve but I feel the gear progression (maybe due to a perception issue) should converge a later point, not right at 50.

 

If the disparity I am seeing is false expectations then so be it, but it seems people have those expectations for a reason...

Edited February 9, 2012 by Wolfshart

[GrandMike]

You can do normal FPs/OPs in greens/blues (qept karaggas fabricator). You will be showered with purplez (tionese/columi).

 

Get 8 people together and hit it. They are pugged a lot these days on my server (at least EV)

Edited February 9, 2012 by GrandMike

[Elysion]

It's NOT easier to get PvP stuff. It's easier to get PvP stuff IF YOU REFUSE TO INTERACT WITH PEOPLE.

 

With the new bag changes a newbie 50 can be in full cent faster than it can be in full oranges moded with daily coms.

 

And its going to be a vast improvement over what you dinged in even for pve purposes. So a newbie 50 who only intends to pve may feel encouraged to get the first pvp set perhaps.

[GrandMike]

With the new bag changes a newbie 50 can be in full cent faster than it can be in full oranges moded with daily coms.

 

And its going to be a vast improvement over what you dinged in even for pve purposes. So a newbie 50 who only intends to pve may feel encouraged to get the first pvp set perhaps.

 

Except daily ones are better than centurion for PvE AND you work towards Rakata pieces. Look a bit past day after tomorrow, if you cant spend a week 4-5 days doing PvE dailies for 2 hours to be compltely (over)geared for doing HM FP/OPS and consider it insurmountable amount of time reuquired then whatever.

 

The only advantage of Centurion gear is expertise and if you intend to continue to PvP. For pure PvE its waste of time because: its slower AND worse.

Edited February 9, 2012 by GrandMike

[Elysion]

Except daily ones are better than centurion for PvE AND you work towards Rakata pieces.

 

Yes but in a single day you can

 

1. Ding 50 in the morning

2. Get in full cent by having 6 bags at 50 and doing all your warground and ilum dailies/weeklies

3. Do your dailies for the day

4. Be pveing that night

 

So why not do that?

 

My entire post was about how there is no need to pvp to pve, so why is this an argument? Just because i admit a newbie 50 pve player would see some benefit getting cent now with the bag changes, unless of course they only play a few hours a day and only have time to do their dailies for coms every day long enough to be geared out, in which case pvping would be a waste of time, doesnt mean there needs to be arguments.