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Twin Disciplines, Project, and Balance.


AstralFire

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Even for pure Balance talents Project has their meaning in overall damage increase. You simply don't get anyhow noticeable damage in the tree from other (unused) talents.

Even being sub par, Project is a great thing for Balance shadow. I finish people with project more often than with Spinning Strike, Mind Crush. The greatest thing about Project is its range. It is not melee attack, but 10-15 ft magic with decent damage.

 

When you open in pvp, you start with Force in Balance, Sever Force, Force Breach, few Double Strikes and Mind Crush. It's all bright and great, but essentially you are out of options after you use these abilities for that 1 target - you are left with Double Strike and (anti)control abilities only. Meanwhile your target tries to kite making DS spam not an option. You can't keep tight control of distance even with Force Slow, Force Stun and Force Lift. There are times you are still 10 ft from your target after you apply one or the other control ability. It's the time for Project.

 

Once again, Project should be used if you have FiB on cooldown, DoTs on target, some sort of slow/control on target and some spare force. You use it as a filler for the time you close in to continues with DS/ShS/SpS.

And if you do so, Upheaval and Twin Discipline add to your overall damage. You will have enough spare force on occasion thanks to controls on you.

Edited by GFWarper
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Gurdbud, move the points to misdirection. 3 points would be even better in misdirection (which is what I've done), and personally I am happy with this investment. Compared to anything in the 2nd tier of kinetic tree (although the 10s off force speed is somewhat intriguing, I must say), I like the idea of taking more skills from infiltration tree. SS is a great weapon to add to the balance arsenal and I can't imagine a time when I didn't have Infiltration Tactics.

 

As for the upheaval debate: I see where you're coming from Astral, I agree completely, but after investing in 5m more range I'm going to be stubborn for at least a little while longer...

 

EDIT: Oh, and as to investing 5 skill points into project to make it "relevant," Infiltration invest a lot as well. They have 5 points to boost it's crit damage (with a another move boosted), 1 points in CS (which the damage bonus to Project is what makes CS a better choice for them instead of DS, from what I've read [inexperienced as infiltration shadow]) and then 3 points in upheaval (which doesn't include the 5 required in balances first tier). In other words, I can't figure out the numbers right now, but is project that much more useless for a balance compared to a infiltration shadow per skill point? I am not trying to under mind anyone, just trying to continue the discussion.

Edited by Innercalm
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Basically, Balance puts five points into Project and it gets a cumbersome to use skill that has to be planned out in advance and provides a significant but not huge sustained DPS boost, with no real short-term benefits aside from range.

 

Infiltration puts in the same number of points and gets a staple skill that only gets better which they want to use a lot.

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I have to disagree on Project. It's a great opener. Assuming you start every pvp encounter from stealth, set up your burst procs and what-have-you, using Shadow's Respite makes Project have a rather negligible cost versus EPS during the first 6 seconds from stealth.

 

Balance reeks of range abuse. Seriously, you cover all 3 ranges pretty well, with 10m being basically beast-mode. Energy doesn't work at all the same when you're kiting or chasing, and project is valuable burst, even if it is inefficient.

 

Frankly, balance is by far the most efficient with its force use, having one silly dump is a good complement.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601MZhMbZcMfRrRkrfz.1

Edited by Virid
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Eh, no I can't agree with Project being viable as a Force dump. As Balance 2.0 or whatever you want to call this new way to slice it, I found that I had the Force to use pretty much whatever I wanted to use, whenever I wanted to use it. I could dump Force with Project on a single target, but even that wouldn't usually deplete me and it really didn't do enough damage to feel worth it.

 

In Warzones, dots interrupt capturing, so I felt that I could apply a dot to another one or two targets instead of denting someone with Project and see greater benefits. Since I wasn't using Project much, I didn't see the point in investing so many points in buffing it up, but I was unaware of this discussion and I left Balance where I found it after the patch, to be honest. Kinetic is far more my style. As a side note, I'm definitely not starved for Force as Kinetic, probably due to the "regen phase" side-effect of TK Throw. Being totally out of Force in PVP is a goal for me now, and I see a half-full Force bar as wasted up-time.

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  • 2 weeks later...

After reading this thread and doing some testing I'm rolling with...

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601McMZMZfrbRrMkrfz.1

 

I realize that Mind Ward provides a pretty decent amount of dmg protection, but doesn't having Resilience take a little bit of priority off using those two points there? We always have a DoT wipe, and if you are in a group with competent healers they all have "dispels"

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