spoonguy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Ignore the fanboys, obviously dual spec is needed. Not having it punishes tanks/healers by forcing them to kill things very slowly solo. Why anyone thinks this is a good idea is beyond me. Having it means being a healer or tank is no longer possible as we can all be healers or tanks. Why people need to have all classes in one character is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Having it means being a healer or tank is no longer possible as we can all be healers or tanks. Why people need to have all classes in one character is beyond me. So being a tank/healer is no longer possible because everyone can be a tank/healer. That's brilliant man. People have already explained. Picking tank/healer gimps you solo. Other mmos have learned that this is a terrible way to do things. SWTOR needs to catch up. Btw you already have the options there...it's jsut a hassle...you didn't really think this through at all did you... Edited February 9, 2012 by Gohlar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valceanu Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 While i can understand your plight i will probably never like dual speccing as a feature. Hopefully they will fix the PvP though. I play as a tank myself and i do so in PvP too although i PvP casually i will admit. For me its not the about the "nobody else should have it" mentality. However those that say "dont like it, dont use it" have a severe lack of understanding of group dynamics. Otherwise you couldnt make such an idiotic statement. Im gonna go into the issue at lengths since there are 3 main things i hate about this feature. First, say you have player A and player B of equal gear and skill in your guild. Player A chooses to dual spec dps/healing while player B hates the feature and only has a DPS spec. Can you honestly say that you would not choose player A over player B (for a dps slot) if given the chance??...the simple fact that you think that you MIGHT need an extra healer at some point in a raid would make you choose player A. This is especially problematic in the case of gunslinger/sniper and sentinel/marauder which can only be DPS and its not really fair to them. Seccondly, the fact that you can modify group composition (roles) before each individual encounter (therefore obtaining 100% ideal composition for each) makes raids easier overall and in my eyes, it dumbs down the game. Learning to succeed in less then ideal circumstances is what its all about...at least IMHO. Lastly, the realism/immersion factor. This is the most subjective of the 3. Im personally not of the "suspend disbelief" mentality and i find it very unrealistic, changing on the fly i mean. Can a brain surgeon respec to being a heart surgeon on the fly?...i dont think so...even though they are both doctors (class) and surgeons (advanced class). It takes time. The fact that is requires time and credits to do this is the games representation of this. Adds to the RP element and the importance of choice and all that jazz... As for what you said about putting penalties on a feature...this is not what this is about at all. You cant say there are penalties when the feature is working as intended... its not meant to be used as a dual-spec mechanic... its meant for a bit of testing builds and the occasional mistake (the price does go down after all). sorry for the long post...wanted to explain my feelings on the issue. kudos for those patient enough to read it... im just gonna go ahead and quote myself here...originally this was a reply but points stand none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarvaiXit Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm giving examples of someone saying something wont change the game when it clearly will. I thought that was obvious? "We should also be able to sell back any gear after you've tried it for a few days at the same price you bought it. Maybe we get 5000 credits a day for logging in?!?! How about the ability to copy any piece of equipment for 1000 credits?!?! It all takes away those annoying aspects of the game and doesn't change anything ... i like it! " You assume here that I would welcome these changes that have nothing to do with my suggested change to make respec free and easy. Now you claim those are examples of what would change if my suggestion would come true. I never asked for that and you are just guessing here that I would want that. If anything, if you read my post more carefully, you should know that Im not interested in shortcuts in character progress. Respec doesn't interfere with character progress. You don't get points faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonguy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 So being a tank/healer is no longer possible because everyone can be a tank/healer. Brilliant. Exactly its setting for a char not a class .... you turn on healer mode... turn on tank mode ... you don't have a char who is a healer you don't have a char who is a tank.... You join a group with a level 50 tank who may have never tanked before as he spent 1 - 50 as dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Exactly its setting for a char not a class .... you turn on healer mode... turn on tank mode ... you don't have a char who is a healer you don't have a char who is a tank.... You join a group with a level 50 tank who may have never tanked before as he spent 1 - 50 as dps. And how it that different from respecing? Also, you think tanks/healers should have slower, more painful questing "just because". Lol fail. You have the worst reasons to not have dual spec I've ever seen! There are tanks/healers in Rift btw. Looks like you have no idea what you're talking about. Edited February 9, 2012 by Gohlar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonguy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 So being a tank/healer is no longer possible because everyone can be a tank/healer. That's brilliant man. People have already explained. Picking tank/healer gimps you solo. Other mmos have learned that this is a terrible way to do things. SWTOR needs to catch up. Btw you already have the options there...it's jsut a hassle...you didn't really think this through at all did you... Who does it gimp you solo? ... my healer can aoe the hell out of a group of weaker guys much faster than my smuggler could ... he can also take on very tough mobs some dps couldn't take. The options are there but they cost ... it's not the same ... learn the game before joining in It's not my fault you cant play your class and need to change skills for every other mob Other sarcastic comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonguy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) And how it that different from respecing? Also, you think tanks/healers should have slower, more painful questing "just because". Lol fail. You have the worst reasons to not have dual spec I've ever seen! There are tanks/healers in Rift btw. Looks like you have no idea what you're talking about. Because respecing costs ... it makes it less likely to encounter those issues ... think things through mate. It should be a change of path not a trivialisation of the whole class system Edited February 9, 2012 by spoonguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englefield Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Because it's a GAME. So if I choose to tank I should be punished? Really? It should take longer to get quests done simply because I chose a role to help groups out? No. Well, yes actually. You knew this game had a trinity system with no dual spec and you still chose to play it. You also chose to be a tank. Guess what, you'll have to take the rough with the smooth like everyone else, slower leveling and faster groups. For the DPS it's the other way around. But you don't want the rough and the smooth, you want it all smooth. Choices my friend. They must all have benefits and consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valceanu Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) And he is right on one point...there is no lack of healers or tanks. My guild has only around 20-25 members in it and we have 4-5 tanks and 4-5 healers easily. Its not that hard. Join a guild that has adequate members. Im leveling a tank (vanguard) myself since there are none in the guild and quess what...killing things is really easy...it AoE's better then my dps scoundrel and i take groups on faster. I just use a DPS companion and its cake. So its not needed per say... as for me wanting it, i dont...see my previous posts. Edited February 10, 2012 by Qishari quoted/replied to removed content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Well, yes actually. You knew this game had a trinity system with no dual spec and you still chose to play it. You also chose to be a tank. Guess what, you'll have to take the rough with the smooth like everyone else, slower leveling and faster groups. For the DPS it's the other way around. But you don't want the rough and the smooth, you want it all smooth. Choices my friend. They must all have benefits and consequences. And that's why everyone chooses dps and why every major mmo learned from past mistakes. It's not rocket science, suggesting someone level 2 characters because they like to play different styles is an archaic, and short sighted suggestion. This is why developers know better and why SWTOR has a long way to go to catch up. And he is right on one point...there is no lack of healers or tanks. So the fact that people are looking for healers FAR more than anything else means nothing? I'm glad your guild is doing fine, I tank myself, but suggesting that there is no shortage of tanks/healers is beyond ridiculous. Go to your fleet and see what people are looking for, it isn't dps. Although nobody is looking for much of anything anymore anyways, they do have major problems that come 1st I suppose when the majority of servers are ghost towns. Edited February 9, 2012 by Gohlar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valceanu Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 /snip So the fact that people are looking for healers FAR more than anything else means nothing? I'm glad your guild is doing fine, I tank myself, but suggesting that there is no shortage of tanks/healers is beyond ridiculous. Go to your fleet and see what people are looking for, it isn't dps. on my server at least...i constantly see healer LFG for x heroic. Or tank LFG for y heroic. This alone tells me there are many more healers/tanks then in other games. Companions have had a great contribution here. If everyone would learn how to match them to their class and equip them and such we would all be better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englefield Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 why every major mmo learned from past mistakes... Be honest, when you say you're an MMO vet you really mean you're a wow vet...right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looneybinjim Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 what i dont get, is whay are people so adverse to there being more play options? why should we be forced into a single role when each and every class has 3 talent trees to choose from? dual specs are needed. healers are penalised, they solo more slowly in pve, and they gain less medals in pvp. what benefit then, is there to staying as a healer? (i imagine this also applies to tanks) let us choose how we want to play - options are a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Be honest, when you say you're an MMO vet you really mean you're a wow vet...right? Nope. I raided since EQ. Any decent mmo player recognizes the value of dual spec. Noobs still cling to thoughts like "meaningful choices". In reality they are just hassles if you can respec and are completely unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valceanu Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 what i dont get, is whay are people so adverse to there being more play options? why should we be forced into a single role when each and every class has 3 talent trees to choose from? dual specs are needed. healers are penalised, they solo more slowly in pve, and they gain less medals in pvp. what benefit then, is there to staying as a healer? (i imagine this also applies to tanks) let us choose how we want to play - options are a good thing. im tired of replying to everyone that asks "what wrong with it?"...ive explained what I think is wrong in a lengthy post which i also quoted 1-2 pages back for ease of access...at least have the decency to read what has been posted before jumping on the reply button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 yes, for god's sake fix it. You really don't get it, do you? It's not broken. The respecialisation costs are as high as they should be. You can't just say "fix it" about everything you don't like. It won't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 You really don't get it, do you? It's not broken. The respecialisation costs are as high as they should be. You can't just say "fix it" about everything you don't like. It won't change. It isn't broken you are right. I suggest removing the pointless hassle of letting people play their characters to full potential. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englefield Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Nope. I raided since EQ. Any decent mmo player recognizes the value of dual spec. Noobs still cling to thoughts like "meaningful choices". In reality they are just hassles if you can respec and are completely unnecessary. So pro dual spec folks are 'decent MMO players' and the rest of us are 'noobs'. One has to ask then why would a decent MMO player like yourself come to a game with no dual spec? Putting yourself on quite a pedestal there (but I don't believe a word of it). I think this might not be the game for you. Thanks for the laugh though. Edited February 9, 2012 by Englefield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkink Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) what they gona cry about next? when they get their dual spec? two no good.give us three? Give us faction respec aswell!!!! dont want to play Empire!!!! want to play Republic!!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D: Edited February 9, 2012 by pinkink mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdlaurin Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 holy dont cry about cost of anything, your cries to nerf slicing is still ringing in my ears. you reap what you sow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arngrim Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I, for one, am for dual spec as well. I do respec multiple times a week (sometimes a day) for various reasons. I tank for my guild when we run hardmode flashpoints and ops. I don't play a tank because I enjoy it, I play it because if I don't, we don't run anything and I would rather play a role I don't enjoy and be doing content than the other way around. So when I pvp, I play assault and respec shield if needed for my friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSwamper Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 IMO, respeccing is not something that should be done several times a day at a whim. The first respec should be free, then 100,000. Then add another zero every additional time. Make a decision and stick with it or create an alt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 It isn't broken you are right. I suggest removing the pointless hassle of letting people play their characters to full potential. That is all. Thing is - respecialisation is actually an abomination in the RPG genre, introduced only in the MMO generation. The whole point of RPG character progression is the difficult decision when choosing certain skills and sacrificing all other skills. This was never meant to be reversible. People have become shockingly lazy and picky these days, demanding that everything is handed them for free and at once. I want to change skills for free! I want to change my class! I don't want to travel more than 20 meters to anywhere! I don't want any story decision have any effect on gameplay, because I don't pay attention! I don't want to look for groups - do it for me! I don't want to look at my screen and play - let addons and macros do it for me! A lot of people don't think too highly of themselves and don't expect to be able to make educated decisions and face the consequences, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtMonster Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 ....It is not intended for people to switch roles multiple times a day. It is intended to allow people to redesign their character. It is not a group role toggle switch. So either pick a role or pay the price. ^ amen. /end thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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