Real reason why Project is inferior to Shock

[MirrimFaranth]

Ok I have had enough with these silly exaggerations.

First it is not infinetly more useful that is just a gross hyperbole blown out of proportion.

 

Second any good Sage will still beat a bad Sorc or any other class period regardless of of the delay.

 

Third equal skill and equal gear the win chance will still be around 50% in a 1v1 Sorc/Sage matchup.

The silly notion that Sorc should always beat a Sage 1v1 because of the delay is pure and utter nonsense build upon the asumption that it will always come down to who will kil the other with Shock or Project at the last 1% health which is simply idiotic.

 

Fourth other classes willing to blow a CD 10 times or more as long to avoid Project have done your team a favour. Because now the Assasin/Ops are sitting ducks for the next minutes and it is very likely that Project is up again before they

Furthermore with DoTs on them their Vanish abilities will not last long.

So all in all at worst you have a small disadvantage in 1v1 situations. Bohoo.

 

Really folks grow up and get a grip. Yes there is a delay and yes it is a small disadvantage but in manners of group combat one which is so small it does barely matter at all and there are tons more important issues the game has right now than optimizing animations.

 

By your admission, there is a delay and it is a disadvantage...the magnitude of the disadvantage varies based on the player and the playstyle. There should not be any disadvantage and there is no reason to keep it in place, along with the ridiculous, out of place animation that causes it. I have had more than enough of people championing mediocrity and stupidity. Its not like jedi have to be magic rock throwers. If anything, Sith should be, and they are smart enough to not want the junk, literally.

 

And you are right, it isnt "infinetly", but it is infinitely. Every six seconds. A bugged skill every six seconds. That is unacceptable. Why tolerate a broken animation/skill that is the first ranged attack consulars learn, and is used ad infinitum...do people want to throw magic rocks so bad they are willing to accept all kinds of problems? That is silly. Unless they are just trolls bent on ignoring reason or sith looking to keep consulars borked. Like I said, if it was even remotely an advantage the sith would want it. They don't. So please, stop trying to sell what is broken.

Edited February 21, 2012 by MirrimFaranth

[aurellian]

I guess I'm an inferior player or maybe I just don't understand all the mechanics of the game but this debate sounds an awful lot like most of the debates I see concerning MMOs. Everyone wants their abilities to be exactly the same as the perceived strengths of some other classes abilities. Why do shock and project need to be EXACTLY the same? Is that really what we want? We want there to be 4 classes with 8 skins? That's not what I want and I can just about guarantee if Bioware were to change the game in this fashion the boards would LIGHT UP with complaining.

 

I agree with those who follow the stun 1st, then project theory. We have 1 guaranteed stun and another possible stun as seers that would prevent an enemy from vanishing and then we can hit them with project to our heart's content. Or, I agree with those who say that if they vanish, just wait six seconds and hit project again while they're waiting for their 3 minute cooldown to end.

 

To me, it's seems an awful lot like battle tactics.

[OrionDammit]

I said this on another thread:

 

Project is also awesome in my opinion. It reminds me of Darth Maul backing up to the door in Phantom Menace, he sees an object, force grabs it then forces it into the door control. Awesome.

 

If we want to have it equal to Assassin shock, then make the Assassin animation gather a ball of lightning before sending out the shock.

[Vales]

By your admission, there is a delay and it is a disadvantage...the magnitude of the disadvantage varies based on the player and the playstyle. There should not be any disadvantage and there is no reason to keep it in place, along with the ridiculous, out of place animation that causes it. I have had more than enough of people championing mediocrity and stupidity. Its not like jedi have to be magic rock throwers. If anything, Sith should be, and they are smart enough to not want the junk, literally.

 

And you are right, it isnt "infinetly", but it is infinitely. Every six seconds. A bugged skill every six seconds. That is unacceptable. Why tolerate a broken animation/skill that is the first ranged attack consulars learn, and is used ad infinitum...do people want to throw magic rocks so bad they are willing to accept all kinds of problems? That is silly. Unless they are just trolls bent on ignoring reason or sith looking to keep consulars borked. Like I said, if it was even remotely an advantage the sith would want it. They don't. So please, stop trying to sell what is broken.

 

1.) English is not my first language so sorry that I do not write it perfectly. If you wish to we can converse in my native language and see how you will fare.

 

2.) The skill is neither broken nor bugged. Everything works as it should. Could it use improvement to make it's animation delay closer to Shock? Sure why not. Just there are tons of more glaring problems which need fixing by BW and therefore it is natural that it is not on a high priority list.

 

3.) I am trolling where? It is players like you who have nothing better to do than to blow everything out of proportion and even claiming such utter nonsense that it "depends on playstyle" how much the Project delay affects you.

 

4.) I never claimed it was an advantage nor did I claim Imperials want it. Or should I say I infact did because my Sorc collects dust at level 16 while my Sage is 50.

Want to know why? Because spamming all kinds of spells with the same lighting theme 24/7 gets damn boring fast.

 

My favorite think to do on my Op? Cloak double project that may have killed me (Super obvious animation is...oh so obvious), and then reopen on that sage, knocking them flat on their face and dancing on their back for the kill. To everyone that loves how project works I just want to say...Thanks for keeping the waters muddy. We stealthies appreciate it. Watching those rocks twist and turn in the air feeds my soul.

 

Or, barring that, please use your 1 minute stun cooldown to hit me with project. Fingers crossed it ends being a double proc and thus not a worthless stun. Fingers crossed you don't need to stop me from pillar humping in the next 50 seconds, or stopping my heal after I juke/waste your interrupt on Diagnostic Scan. Bet you wish you hadn't used that stun so you could hit me for 3.5k at the start of the fight.

 

 

 

I will never understand people who argue in favor of being less effective, but I love them when they're on the other side of the match.

 

When you Vanish you have either a DoT ticking or I use Sprint and wave you goodbye.

Thanks for wasting your 2 minute CD on my 6 second CD fair trade and in case I don't get you my team mage will finish you after your opener and you are a sitting duck for 2 minutes afterwards.

Have a nice day.

 

And who the hell is stupid enough to interupt diagnostic scan?

Edited February 21, 2012 by Vales

[Dyvim]

I said this on another thread:

 

Project is also awesome in my opinion. It reminds me of Darth Maul backing up to the door in Phantom Menace, he sees an object, force grabs it then forces it into the door control. Awesome.

 

If we want to have it equal to Assassin shock, then make the Assassin animation gather a ball of lightning before sending out the shock.

 

Yeah, except the problem is, in the movies, its the SITH that throw junk, NOT JEDI. So yes, when I see the skill I think of DARTHs, not JEDI, just like you mention.

 

So doesnt it seem strange to you that the first learned, often used, jedi ranged caster skill in this game makes you immediately think of a sith first? It should seem off to you, and does to alot of other people.

 

In fact, every single sith does it. Sith throw junk in the movies 18 to 1 more than jedi. And that one time is Yoda throwing a senate car back at palpitane after he throws 7 or so at yoda. Anakin throws droid parts twice, but he is in a factory surrounded by them (they dont magically appear out of the ground) and in the same movie he slaughters women and children and gets married, so he is clearly on his way to the darkside and not exactly a jedi posterboy. But if you want to count anakin its 18 to 3.

 

So we agree, every time I see junk thrown I think of a Darth. Maul, Vader, Tyrannus, Sidious...problem is in this game the JEDI class is based on throwing junk between pebblestorm and project (the tooltips say debris). So not ONLY does the craptastic magical rock animation have a delay, it ALSO is completely inappropriate for the basis, or SIGNATURE skills of the jedi caster class. Just like lightning defines and identifies inquisitors, junk throwing identifies consular types, and it makes them a joke in poor taste. You might as well make everyone run around with a red lightsaber...it would be about as in line with canon and the movies.

 

Again, breaking shock to make up for a broken project is just goofy. As someone who actively plays both factions, that is just a nonstarter and makes NO sense. The answer to fix a broken skill, is to FIX the broken skill, not break another one. But there is ONE piece of your argument that makes great sense. See, sorcerers have exactly what you are describiing, its called lightning strike, and it is the mirror of disturbance. Both have 1.5 sec activation timers. So what you are asking for is to break shock and give it some kind of activation timer, so it matches with project, WHICH SHOULD be on a skill with an activation timer if it is kept in the game. So it is VERY much in line with the idea to swap the disturbance and project animations to give project that very activation timer that you want to break shock with...lol

Edited February 22, 2012 by Dyvim

[Achraya]

1.)

 

When you Vanish you have either a DoT ticking or I use Sprint and wave you goodbye.

Thanks for wasting your 2 minute CD on my 6 second CD fair trade and in case I don't get you my team mage will finish you after your opener and you are a sitting duck for 2 minutes afterwards.

Have a nice day.

 

And who the hell is stupid enough to interupt diagnostic scan?

 

DoT? Evasion. Using vanish without first using Evasion is pretty dumb.

 

You Sprint away? Fine. This means I get to heal up and come back around IE: I'm still not dead. No problem here. After all, I used my vanish to keep you from smacking me with your two rocks for the kill, not for the fun of smacking vanish. The purpose of it is to reset the fight/buy me time, and if you leave that's exactly what's happened.*

 

Your team mage (...mage? idk) Is probably too busy being beat on by my teammates. I mean, if we're moving this from a 1v1 fight to a team fight, that's fine but be aware only a bad OP rolls around without backup. (Or, more to the point, as backup.)

 

Lots of people interrupt DS (try to anyway. It's a bit like people interrupting mind spike on a healing priest, not catching that they've just been drawn into burning their interrupt) I'd have to say it works far more than it doesn't and it's funny every time.

 

 

 

*On another fun note, people who act like there is a bad way to use your vanish are crazy. As long as you aren't hitting it before you meant to it's probably worth while. I mean, I use Force Camo on my Sent darn near off cooldown. Oh hey, that Sorc knocked me back. Camo, duck behind something, wait until leap is back up. That sniper is casting ambush, Camo to avoid the big hit. These aren't buttons you leave untouched because you 'might' use them later (since you'll end up never using it.) If you aren't using everything to it's full potential you aren't playing at your full potential. This has, of course, nothing to do with you wanting to remain gimped Vs your mirror class because you like an animation, but it's worth throwing out there anyway.

[Vales]

So you come back healed up which I can do just as well or even better since I do not have to wait 10 seconds until I can heal while I have my important CDs left you are one short. GG.

 

I also doubt that Evasion works against a DoT and even if it lasts only 3 seconds.

 

Gimped? It is at worst something like a 1% factor. Tell me how many times do you even have Vanish up to dodge a Project? Answer since you can count by simple CD comparison and since you need it vs other classes we can asume this happens overall so rarely that in the grand scheme of things is overall negleible for group PvP.

 

But please exaggerate some more.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Vales

[Achraya]

Um so you come back healed up which I can do just as well while I have my important CDs left you are one short. GG.

 

Or I can come back when it's back up...? IDK, just a thought.

 

Your defense of this pointless difference between Sorcs and Sages is admirable, but also laughable. You think it makes you a 'good player' to work around a broken mechanic but it actually just makes you complacent and moves you solidly into "I'm better than you" territory.You don't need this fixed because you work around it, which makes you oh-so-pro and everyone else who wants it fixed clearly need to L2P, amirite?

 

Imagine for a moment that this was wow and that Horde fire mages had to cast fireball for a second longer than Ally fire mages. Would that be something that should be allowed to stand, or something that needs fixed? Or would it just mean that all the Horde mages who want it fixed should learn to play around it?

 

 

Edit: Oh, you added more stuff. Evasion wipes dots, via Avoidance Training. At least look it up before you type something. I duck double project whenever it's needed. Is that all the time? No, of course not. Every fight is different and I react accordingly. But I duck it enough that I'm sure there are a lot of pissed off Sages out there. And even if I had only ever done it once, and even if it was useless and I got killed the minute I was back out of stealth the point is that I can, and have, avoided it by vanishing and that is something that NEVER EVER happens to Sorcs.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Achraya

[MirrimFaranth]

1.) English is not my first language so sorry that I do not write it perfectly. If you wish to we can converse in my native language and see how you will fare.

 

2.) The skill is neither broken nor bugged. Everything works as it should. Could it use improvement to make it's animation delay closer to Shock? Sure why not. Just there are tons of more glaring problems which need fixing by BW and therefore it is natural that it is not on a high priority list.

 

3.) I am trolling where? It is players like you who have nothing better to do than to blow everything out of proportion and even claiming such utter nonsense that it "depends on playstyle" how much the Project delay affects you.

 

4.) I never claimed it was an advantage nor did I claim Imperials want it. Or should I say I infact did because my Sorc collects dust at level 16 while my Sage is 50.

Want to know why? Because spamming all kinds of spells with the same lighting theme 24/7 gets damn boring fast.

...

 

1) Good for you. Then you are still learning. So learn. You seem to do well enough.

 

2) Yes, it is broken/bugged. It has a delay that should not be there. Zoeller has said that they are looking at discrepancies in mirrored skills that have delays their mirrors do not have. I imagine project is on the chopping block, because it is one of the worst offenders.

 

3) Pointing out a flaw, yes flaw, in the first learned ranged skill of the class that is impacted by numerous talents and is central to several sage and shadow specs, is important. You may not think so. Others do, as is obvious in this thread. Just like others hate magic rocks in star wars.

 

4) Throwing endless magical supplies of magic rocks and pebbles doesnt just get tiresome, it is outright ridiculous. And there is not much jedi about it. However you could easily make the case that it has sith written all over it. And if you dont like lightning as a sith, that is about as reasonable as complaining about red lightsabers. Sith choke, shoot lightning, and throw objects at people, and use red lightsabers. Those are their hallmarks, their calling cards, their signature moves. They do other things as well, but those are what they are known for...and jedi are not known for them, although you can find rare examples of almost anything - I believe at least two jedi have shot some kind of lightning, outside of the movies, of course.

Edited February 22, 2012 by MirrimFaranth

[Cordarn]

Either make Project damage instantly.

Either make Shock damage after 1.5s.

Either change shock animation.

Either change Project animation.

 

IT'S NOT ABOUT "LOL THE ROCK IS COOL I WANT TO KEEP IT DERP".

 

It's about doing equal mirrors.

 

Agreed. I have played both Jedi consular (really my main now) and sith inquisitor. I have seen how shock does instant damage, and how project is delayed about .5-1. seconds . I think this gives inquisitors much of an advantage then the consular because in a firefight I shot first your dead. One instant stun before yours could mean your demise. The fight is really just decided from there.

[Cordarn]

DoT? Evasion. Using vanish without first using Evasion is pretty dumb.

 

You Sprint away? Fine. This means I get to heal up and come back around IE: I'm still not dead. No problem here. After all, I used my vanish to keep you from smacking me with your two rocks for the kill, not for the fun of smacking vanish. The purpose of it is to reset the fight/buy me time, and if you leave that's exactly what's happened.*

 

Your team mage (...mage? idk) Is probably too busy being beat on by my teammates. I mean, if we're moving this from a 1v1 fight to a team fight, that's fine but be aware only a bad OP rolls around without backup. (Or, more to the point, as backup.)

 

Lots of people interrupt DS (try to anyway. It's a bit like people interrupting mind spike on a healing priest, not catching that they've just been drawn into burning their interrupt) I'd have to say it works far more than it doesn't and it's funny every time.

 

 

 

*On another fun note, people who act like there is a bad way to use your vanish are crazy. As long as you aren't hitting it before you meant to it's probably worth while. I mean, I use Force Camo on my Sent darn near off cooldown. Oh hey, that Sorc knocked me back. Camo, duck behind something, wait until leap is back up. That sniper is casting ambush, Camo to avoid the big hit. These aren't buttons you leave untouched because you 'might' use them later (since you'll end up never using it.) If you aren't using everything to it's full potential you aren't playing at your full potential. This has, of course, nothing to do with you wanting to remain gimped Vs your mirror class because you like an animation, but it's worth throwing out there anyway.

 

Really, This is an argument about matching project to shock; however, it's in the pvp area of this problem:rolleyes:

Edited February 22, 2012 by Cordarn

[tXHereticXt]

The best solution would be to "nerf" shock via giving it a longer animation cast time. Speeding up Project is a terrible idea, causing more problems than it would fix.

 

 

What about their damage ratios though? I was under the impression Project also hits harder (damage type is different too isn't it?).

[Dyvim]

The best solution would be to "nerf" shock via giving it a longer animation cast time. Speeding up Project is a terrible idea, causing more problems than it would fix.

 

 

What about their damage ratios though? I was under the impression Project also hits harder (damage type is different too isn't it?).

 

Actually, no, that is a completely unacceptable solution. Let me explain why. There is already a lightning skill with a cast time, it is called lightning strike. If you want to keep rock throwing, then attach the animation to a skill that has an activation timer. Yes, the rock throwing obviously NEEDS time. The problem really is simple, the project ani is masquerading as an instant skill ani. It isnt.

 

Both classes have the same basic setup, they are mirrors...

 

Instant - project, shock

Channeled - throw, lightning

1.5 sec Activation timer - disturbance, lightning strike

 

The problem is that the project ani cant reasonably mirror the shock ani and cant do damage logically before the magic rock hits. Plus it simply has a longer wind-up. It takes time to pull up the magic rock out of nowhere (ugh), it takes times to spin it in the air, then it takes time to throw it and it takes time for it to reach the target. Therefore you change the ani that is failing. In this case that is project. You dont break another ani to make it fail as bad as the already broken one...lol.

 

Say you have two cars. If the tires are underinflated on one car, do you let air out of the other cars tires so they ride the same? Or do you add air to the ones that are underinflated? Simple, you fix what is broken. Now, some people will claim that there are times when you want underinflated tires (or a lag in damage), because they can give a wider grip and a softer ride. For example this can be done in sand. But for the majority of the times, in the majority of the conditions, you want you tires to be properly inflated, just like you want an instant damage skill to do instant damage...lol

 

So switching disturbance and project ani's, while slightly modifying the disturbance casting motion into a smooth insta cast hand gesture is more logical. Again, you dont break another skill as a fix to a broken skill. You just fix the thing that is broken.

 

As far as damage ratios, I think both energy (shock) and kinetic (project) are equally defended with by armour...its just internal damage that is different. But someone else can chime in there, if Im mistaken.

 

But we do agree, speeding up the damage on project is another terrible idea. So if you dont speed it up, and dont change/break another skill, also a terrible idea, then there is only one choice...FIX what is actually broken by changing the ani to something that is truly instant.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Dyvim

[Vales]

1) Good for you. Then you are still learning. So learn. You seem to do well enough.

 

2) Yes, it is broken/bugged. It has a delay that should not be there. Zoeller has said that they are looking at discrepancies in mirrored skills that have delays their mirrors do not have. I imagine project is on the chopping block, because it is one of the worst offenders.

 

3) Pointing out a flaw, yes flaw, in the first learned ranged skill of the class that is impacted by numerous talents and is central to several sage and shadow specs, is important. You may not think so. Others do, as is obvious in this thread. Just like others hate magic rocks in star wars.

 

4) Throwing endless magical supplies of magic rocks and pebbles doesnt just get tiresome, it is outright ridiculous. And there is not much jedi about it. However you could easily make the case that it has sith written all over it. And if you dont like lightning as a sith, that is about as reasonable as complaining about red lightsabers. Sith choke, shoot lightning, and throw objects at people, and use red lightsabers. Those are their hallmarks, their calling cards, their signature moves. They do other things as well, but those are what they are known for...and jedi are not known for them, although you can find rare examples of almost anything - I believe at least two jedi have shot some kind of lightning, outside of the movies, of course.

 

1.) It is neither broken or bugged. You can say it is weaker than Shock but anything else is simply exaggeration.

 

2.) There is no flaw if you never encountered Sorcerers and never played one you'd never say that.

 

3.) The rocks aren't magically created by Project that is pure BS. The animation is clear in that regard you rip it out of the ground.

TK Throw well anybody with a modicum of intelligence realize it that it is meant to be debris from the surrounding area and it is certainly not now and not in the near future realistically feasable to include thousands of tiny objects TK Throw could pick up for perfect animation.

That being said the glow and graphics of abilities like Static Barrier or Force Armor are just as much "magic" so the whole argument is pointless and inacurate.

 

4.) So conjuring Lightning is less "magical" than "conjuring rocks"?

[BountyFodder]

What about making project cause the target to slap themselves in the face? Second proc could be a double slap with the other hand?

 

Jokes aside. Why not switch Project and disturbance. Disturbance is at least more instant than project. And you could get around the lag time on project for disturbance by allowing the cast animation to be the lifting of the rock, the rock is projected forward at the end of the cast time.

 

In doing that you could get away with the dmg appearing instantly because the ability animation will hit you only a few 10ths of a second later anyway.

 

Technically there are already animations for second procs for both abilities. even though the talent for the current disturbance does not work correctly.

 

It would make telekinetics a very fun tree to stand and chain cast if you are constantly pulling rocks and chucking them, occasionally pulling a second with the other hand. I know that some people dislike the suspension of reality required by this animation, in pulling endless amounts of rocks out of the ground.

 

The fact is, the animation is awesome. No point in scrapping it. This solution could potentially fix the Project issue to be instant cast, while making even more use of the very fun animation.

[Panzerbase]

so the coolest Jedi force animation you want to change because people are using tactics and sometimes outplay you.

 

 

I vote no, for the love of God don't change the animation bioware!

 

Mirror classes are equal right? Not in your book I guess.

[Vales]

Mirror classes are equal right? Not in your book I guess.

 

They are close to being equal. For sure closer than the crybabies in this thread want you want to make believe.

[BountyFodder]

They are close to being equal. For sure closer than the crybabies in this thread want you want to make believe.

 

Yes they are close, but those few things that are different, have a larger effect than you would want to make everyone else believe. Sure it doesn't break the game, but it is certainly an issue for those people that find their rocks floating in the air above a stealthy that is alive with 500 HP, only because he was playing against a Sage and not a Sorcerer.

 

Sure there are other issues to be resolved that are possibly larger than this one. But if you feel those are more important than this, perhaps try going over to their relative threads and being a positive proponent of that change. Instead of being a negative proponent in this one.

 

Calling people crybabies, based on the grounds that their raised concerns are not high on your own list of concerns is a little arrogant don't you think?

[OrionDammit]

My point was to try and make shock equal to project by causing the sith animation to gather lightning in his hand before shooting it out.

[KilmarFyrewynd]

Sith Assassin vs Jedi Shadow:

 

a) Sith Assassin sees Jedi Shadow's two rocks floating in air. She vanishes, then mezzes you and uses medpaks, adrenals, and self heals while you are dazed.

b) Shadow is mezzed and cc breaks. Assassin stuns then uses medpaks, adrenals and self heals.

c) Shadow sees Assassin using shock. Gets shocked. Period. No other choice.

d) In Huttball, Assassin has 1% health and is about to get to the goal. Shadow casts project but Assassin gets to goal first.

e) In Huttball, Shadow has 1% health and is about to get to the goal. Assassin casts shock. Shadow dies.

f) In Voidstar, Assassin is 7.3 seconds from planting bomb. Shadow casts project. Bomb is planted.

g) In Voidstar, Shadow is 7.3 seconds from planting bomb. Assassin casts shock. Bomb is interrupted

h) In Alderaan, Assassin is 7.3 seconds from capping turret. Shadow casts project. Turret is capped.

i) In Alderaan, Shadow is 7.3 seconds from capping turret. Assassin casts shock. capping s interrupted.

j) In Ilum, Assassin has 2% health. Shadow casts project. Assassin gets crit healed while two rocks lazily float

k) In Ilum, Shadow has 2% health. Assassin casts shock. Dead Shadow.

 

Some people may say just use TK instead. What if it's on CD? Assassins have two ranged attacks that are instant. Shadows have one.

Edited February 22, 2012 by KilmarFyrewynd

[DragonianJedi]

What about making project cause the target to slap themselves in the face? Second proc could be a double slap with the other hand?

 

Jokes aside. Why not switch Project and disturbance. Disturbance is at least more instant than project. And you could get around the lag time on project for disturbance by allowing the cast animation to be the lifting of the rock, the rock is projected forward at the end of the cast time.

 

In doing that you could get away with the dmg appearing instantly because the ability animation will hit you only a few 10ths of a second later anyway.

 

Technically there are already animations for second procs for both abilities. even though the talent for the current disturbance does not work correctly.

 

It would make telekinetics a very fun tree to stand and chain cast if you are constantly pulling rocks and chucking them, occasionally pulling a second with the other hand. I know that some people dislike the suspension of reality required by this animation, in pulling endless amounts of rocks out of the ground.

 

The fact is, the animation is awesome. No point in scrapping it. This solution could potentially fix the Project issue to be instant cast, while making even more use of the very fun animation.

 

I am not sure what kind of coding changes they would have to make to do such a swap of abilities, but this does make sense to me.

 

I can easily see a cast bar under the project animation and I can just as easily see not having one under the disturbance animation.

 

Good call.

 

(Probably won't happen, but it would be cool if it did.)

[Vales]

Yes they are close, but those few things that are different, have a larger effect than you would want to make everyone else believe. Sure it doesn't break the game, but it is certainly an issue for those people that find their rocks floating in the air above a stealthy that is alive with 500 HP, only because he was playing against a Sage and not a Sorcerer.

 

Sure there are other issues to be resolved that are possibly larger than this one. But if you feel those are more important than this, perhaps try going over to their relative threads and being a positive proponent of that change. Instead of being a negative proponent in this one.

 

Calling people crybabies, based on the grounds that their raised concerns are not high on your own list of concerns is a little arrogant don't you think?

 

I think it is arrogant to force your opinion onto others like you people do.

[Dyvim]

My point was to try and make shock equal to project by causing the sith animation to gather lightning in his hand before shooting it out.

 

My point was that Shock isnt the problem, it doesnt need changing. Project is the problem. You fix the problem, you dont break another skill that is working fine. So lets take a more direct, simple approach and make Project = Shock by getting rid of the activation timer style chunk a clunker animation and replace it with something that looks as good and works as well as shock does.

[MirrimFaranth]

1.) It is neither broken or bugged. You can say it is weaker than Shock but anything else is simply exaggeration.

 

2.) There is no flaw if you never encountered Sorcerers and never played one you'd never say that.

 

3.) The rocks aren't magically created by Project that is pure BS. The animation is clear in that regard you rip it out of the ground.

TK Throw well anybody with a modicum of intelligence realize it that it is meant to be debris from the surrounding area and it is certainly not now and not in the near future realistically feasable to include thousands of tiny objects TK Throw could pick up for perfect animation.

That being said the glow and graphics of abilities like Static Barrier or Force Armor are just as much "magic" so the whole argument is pointless and inacurate.

 

4.) So conjuring Lightning is less "magical" than "conjuring rocks"?

 

 

1) Weaker is plenty of reason to change it. It isnt just weaker, it robs the consular side of an instant damage skill on a 6 second timer. Sith have it. We dont. That is a big deal. Hop over to the Inq forums, start a thread proposing to nerf shock to a damage delay to "fix" project and see what kind of a "warm" reception you get...lol

 

2) I have a pretty good sense of humor, so you must be joking here. Maybe you havent noticed that the game is crawling with sins and sorcerers, and sith outnumber rep on just about every server...lol. And people play alts and are playing both classes side by side, where the difference is obvious and unacceptable. Yes, good one. lol. Really.

 

3) Really, out of the ground? When I am on a spaceship in space, or a space station, or in a building, I rip rocks out of the "ground"? How do I do that? Just how? Magic. Because there is no other rational answer for where the rocks come from places they cannot possibly be. So it must be magic. Which is completely out of place in this mythos. But what is in place with this mythos is jedi using the force to generate energy manifestations, like lightning, or force shockwaves, etc. Jedi can't make matter magically materialize, but they can generate various manifestations of energy using the Force.

 

4) Again lightning fits into the movies, the lore, and is well accepted that Sith use the darkside to generate it. Just like jedi and sith can generate shockwaves with various force push effects. Perhaps you can point out one time where rocks magically popped up out of some starship deck, or on the deathstar, etc.? See because I cant think of one single time. So yes, conjuring rocks is magical and completely out of place in the star wars mythology. Lightning isnt. Again with that sense of humor. Watch the movies again, perhaps that will cure it.

Edited February 22, 2012 by MirrimFaranth

[Vales]

1) Weaker is plenty of reason to change it. It isnt just weaker, it robs the consular side of an instant damage skill on a 6 second timer. Sith have it. We dont. That is a big deal. Hop over to the Inq forums, start a thread proposing to nerf shock to a damage delay to "fix" project and see what kind of a "warm" reception you get...lol

 

2) I have a pretty good sense of humor, so you must be joking here. Maybe you havent noticed that the game is crawling with sins and sorcerers, and sith outnumber rep on just about every server...lol. And people play alts and are playing both classes side by side, where the difference is obvious and unacceptable. Yes, good one. lol. Really.

 

3) Really, out of the ground? When I am on a spaceship in space, or a space station, or in a building, I rip rocks out of the "ground"? How do I do that? Just how? Magic. Because there is no other rational answer for where the rocks come from places they cannot possibly be. So it must be magic. Which is completely out of place in this mythos. But what is in place with this mythos is jedi using the force to generate energy manifestations, like lightning, or force shockwaves, etc. Jedi can't make matter magically materialize, but they can generate various manifestations of energy using the Force.

 

4) Again lightning fits into the movies, the lore, and is well accepted that Sith use the darkside to generate it. Just like jedi and sith can generate shockwaves with various force push effects. Perhaps you can point out one time where rocks magically popped up out of some starship deck, or on the deathstar, etc.? See because I cant think of one single time. So yes, conjuring rocks is magical and completely out of place in the star wars mythology. Lightning isnt. Again with that sense of humor. Watch the movies again, perhaps that will cure it.

 

1.) Slightly weaker is at best one reason and one reason only and the damage is in fact the same. As I have already said I'd welcome an improvement on activation speed but there are more pressing concerns in this game overall. Unlike you I am not self centered about my main class but see the game as a whole and therefore see this is absoluly a minor issue.

By the way that more people play Sorc than Sages, if that is even true percentage wise, has not much to do with the delay of project but most likely because they wanted to play Emperor Palpatine or something close.

 

2.) At least on my server I see just about as many Powertechs/Merc and Maras/Juggers as Sorcs same goes for Commandos/Vanguards and Sents/Guards on Rep side. The only class which is on both sides low populated is Smuggler and IA. That is why I rolled one each as secondary classes.

Maybe start to grow up and get a grip that your anecdotal evidence means absolutely crap.

 

3.) Are you blind? Yes out of the ground guess you need some glasses if you cannot see that.

That the spell could use more polishjing in that it is mroe sensible to the surounding area is a minor flaw which anyone with a minimum of imagination could easily interpret as for example metal on a spaceship. But I guess you guys need everything spoonfed.

 

4.) It does fit the lore that Jedi can be quite powerful telekinetics users and I already pointed out the rest in my first point and in my previous post.

There is no conjuring rocks. The Sage rips out a portion of the surrounding and uses it as a weapon. Advanced Telekinetics do well fit the lore and we seen tons of TK feats even on the movies. Not 100% like project but for sure close.

I already stated that Project doesn't acknowledge surroundings and it would be nice if it would. That does not detract from the fact that it does not conjure rocks. It rips them out of the suroundings and of course we can asume that is a big chunk of metal in a spaceship.

As I already explained there would be no engine available which could manage it 100% cause it would mean you need literally thousands of objects per map minimum which also have to move and react physically correct.

 

Also where in the movies did we see the follwing in any shape or form?

 

Turbulence

Disturbance

Weaken Mind

Mind Crush

Force Armor

Healing Spells in general

Ressurections

 

Answer is of course not at all yet you can describe these just as much as "magical". Your argument is flawed and nonsensical.

 

Are there weaknesses to Project and TK Throw? Sure.

Would I like to see improvements? Of course.

Are there many people who like the graphics on a conceptual level at least if not even fully? Absolutely.

 

Should BW listen to you whiners and compeltely scrap it just because you are dissatisfied it and going against those who like it? Fopr sure not. Especially not for such idiotic reasons.

Is it as bad as you and the other crybabies make it out to be? Not even close.

 

And most importantly:

There are tons of more important issues which need to be adressed first.

 

And I think it is remarkably arrogant to call people who are pointing out a discrepancy in the mirror paradigm, a FUNCTIONAL discrepancy that should NOT be there, crybabies.

 

 

 

Arrogant and hypocritical. At least these people have the facts on their side. Your just have your rabid love of junk throwing and are using that to try and force the idea on people that the functional discrepancy doesnt matter. Well it does. Its not a skill on a 30 min cooldown that is hardly ever used. It is the first learned, often used, impacted by numerous talents, skill that is SUPPOSED to be instant. Every SIX SECONDS.

 

There are other skills that have damage delays based on their activation timer. We dont need another skill with delayed damage. What we need is what we dont have on the jedi side...instant damage. The sith have it. We dont. It is that simple.

 

Yes, facts. There is a functional difference. For some players its a big deal. As is obvious by this thread. How arrogant to tell people that a disadvantage they consider important, isnt...even YOU admit it is some kind of a disadvantage...

 

 

 

Players have posted multiple cases in this thread where it can make a difference between life and death and success or failure. THose are facts. The only issue here is that some people cant handle them because they are obsessed with throwing junk. Too bad throwing junk IS NOT A JEDI SIGNATURE SKILL. There is NO NEED to keep a broken animation when that animation doesnt even contribute to the Jedi feel of the Jedi caster class...

 

 

 

Yes, awesome, if you are a sith. I agree, the skill makes me think of SITH, SINCE SITH are the ones that typically throw things at targets. EVERY SITH IN THE MOVIES DID IT. 18 times more than jedi. 18 to 1. So no, it is not a jedi signature skill, it is not needed to make the class feel like jedi.

 

Finally for those that still just cant get it:

 

To make your silly little rant into something more suitable:

 

Bla bla bla my opinion is fact you are just dumb bla bla bla.

 

Not going to get into more pointless "discussions" with you when you have 0 arguments and pretent your opinion is fact and better than anyone elses.

In fact you calling people not sharing your opinion "rabid junk lovers" as I have told you in your silly little crybaby thread where you got torn apart by several posters yet you remain in denial is one of the most crude and rude insults I have seen in a long time.

And your behaviour is already far beyond arrogant. It is obnoxious. I do not even know why I try to reason with you, you are hopeless.

So people telling me that it is a big deal are not arrogant but I saying it is makes me arrogant? Hipocrite.

In fact you are one of the biggest hipocrites I have ever seen on forums. Ever. And with my odd 20 years of gaming and forum experience that tells a lot about you. And nothing positive at that point.

Oh and to your final rant about "Sith used it" crappy BS "argument" you were proven wrong again and again on that but you are just too dense to get it.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Vales