Sorcs in PvP, its kind of stupid.

[Drack]

I like my sorc, but damn, in PvP I get owned frequently. Im rank 54 Valor atm, and almost have full champ gear with some cent replacements.

 

If I FL a trooper tank thats specced for PvP, I hit him for like 750 a tic on crits. He slams me for 4-5 k several times easy. There is some things in this game that are just not made right. For examble, I have never seen a game where the "caster" and the most squishy class in the game have the least amount of burst in a game. It really feels like they made sorcs with a wierd design and idea in mind.

 

I think they wanted to make the lighting tree a burst dmg tree, but it did most certainly not turn out that way. It is a broken tree to say the least, for pvp atleast.

 

A healing heay armor BH or Troop is almost impossible to kill as a sorc, our dmg have so little burst that we cant shoot em down at the right time. We can disturb em, sure, but we cant stop them from healing in the long run. A sorc has paper armor, and at the same time is against better bursters all the time. So us getting hit by 4-5 k 2-3 times in a row with a interrupt and a stun, that will simply take us down, even 1v1.

 

The only really viable spec atm for PvP I think is full madness for the last root spell, because it is way to easy for people to get a hold of us. We basicly suck at kiting. A good OP will keep us rootet/snared, a good assasin is impossible to kite more or less. Getting pulled in after you used your speed, and your dead. I fought an tank assasin today that hit me for 4400, for 4400? Hes a damn tank, that can pull me in and burst me down? What the hell is that?

 

BW needs to take a look at the balancing. Sorcs are ONLY good if they are left alone to rank up dmg, get a guy or 2 on them and they go down very easy. A ***,marau,jug or whatever will annoy or dmg you enough to keep you from doing dmg, or kill you.

 

Think about it hard - Have you ever seen another MMO where the caster type in the game had the worst burst dmg of all classes? The most squishy with the least burst = Wierd.

[cereph]

A sorc complaining.....

 

 

awesome.

[Darth_Philar]

Sorcerers are not face-melting Mages.

 

They are actually more like well-designed Hunters.

 

Low but steady damage output, low mitigation/high escape, and reliance on range/LOS.

 

A good Sorcerer knows that to get caught is to die and that kiting is required.

 

If you learn to kite you will survive longer and therefore do more damage.

[Tyrias]

Also, I thought it was a generally known fact that full speccing any tree as a Sage/Sorceror is sub-optimal compared to taking a Hybrid-PvP build.

 

If you think full Madness is the way forward, that may also be part of your problem.

[Ntranced]

A sorc complaining.....

 

 

awesome.

 

Why so surprised? Numerous issues with sorc/sage despite the general mouth-breathing keyboard turners view they are "OP" . This mainly stems from the fact sorcs will run off rather than getting beaten and that really pisses people off. I've yet to see nerf threads that relate to sorc burning down every class 1v1, consistently winning 1v2s or 1v3s. We just annoy the **** out of people with speed, slow on lightning, blind on bubble, snare, root on KB etc.

 

Should we expect that our 3 second chanelled cast should do more than 2-3k damage (if it crits twice) on an equally geared (champ) opponent? Yes. Especially when any other class can wind up 4 - 5k crits on us and that includes tanks.

 

Should we expect that our lightning tree be fixed? Hell yes.

 

Should we expect to be able to have more than 2 skills in rotation that aren't DoTs, some form of CC or rely on a proc to use effectively? I think so.

 

Should we expect the class to scale properly after 50 in good gear? Of course.

 

Should we expect any kind of reasonable debate on a web forum? No chance, bring in the QQers.

[Drack]

Actually for madness spec is a well known and good pvp spec, so saying its not, well... Then you havent played sorc. Having said that, madness spec is THE best kiting spec there is atm, so yes, ofcource I kite. Dismissing my thread by saying "you should kite man!" is just kind of silly. I've been around the block a few times, like I said im valor rank 54.

 

Our dmg is simply to low in burst, and what happens is that we build up our dmg over time with dots, so if a marauder jumps on us, and stuns us and then then we have a kite battlle and then hes jump is up again etc. Hes dmg if to high in burst, so he lands atleast 2-3 good moves before I am out of range for just a little bit, meaning 5-6 k dmg for me atleast, and a dot thats ticking.

 

Now he jumps on me again and hits me for atleast 3-4 k again 2-3 times, than im close to dead. I can use 3 instant spells when I move. 1 small nuke on a 6 sec timer, 1 weak dot, and 1 ae that "can" crit for 3 k on a poor geared person every 15 secs. Hes jump timer is what, 15 secs? So basicly, thats what I get to do per 15 secs if I want to kite, if I stop to do anything he does have interrupts and can stop my channeling FL easy and stop me from using it, and thats what I have to do to instantly apply my good dot.

 

I cant interrupt him, because everything he got is instant.

 

So the scenario is that he can jump from my full cast distance up in my face and root me for 2 secs, so the fight always more or less starts in my pants. All hes moves are instant, and hits way harder than mine, as I have to be left alone to do any real dmg, he is 100% mobile. So lets say I knock him back and start to FL - so fare so good, now I start to cast my FL to hopefully get a proc for my CL or CD. Lets say I get the proc, then I can CL him! Woot, 1400 dmg non crit, and now hes on me again hitting for 4k. Then I forcer speed off and start to FL again, and apply ddots while running. Now I got around 5 sec, or almost 2 FL before he can jump on me again, and now both my speed and knockback is down. That means game over. Nothing to be done.

 

They designed caster very poorly in this game. Being the weakest in most everything is really bad hehe. We are good as healers, and dps on raids, in pvp we are not. Like 1 gent said, we are good at annoying people, and they are like "**** it, let him run, I get the other guy over here" Left alone, we do alot of dmg, I wont deny that, we really do. But get on us, and its like Homer Simpsin chasing a burger that tries to kite him.

[Drack]

Actually for madness spec is a well known and good pvp spec, so saying its not, well... Then you havent played sorc. Having said that, madness spec is THE best kiting spec there is atm, so yes, ofcource I kite. Dismissing my thread by saying "you should kite man!" is just kind of silly. I've been around the block a few times, like I said im valor rank 54.

 

Our dmg is simply to low in burst, and what happens is that we build up our dmg over time with dots, so if a marauder jumps on us, and stuns us and then then we have a kite battlle and then hes jump is up again etc. Hes dmg if to high in burst, so he lands atleast 2-3 good moves before I am out of range for just a little bit, meaning 5-6 k dmg for me atleast, and a dot thats ticking.

 

Now he jumps on me again and hits me for atleast 3-4 k again 2-3 times, than im close to dead. I can use 3 instant spells when I move. 1 small nuke on a 6 sec timer, 1 weak dot, and 1 ae that "can" crit for 3 k on a poor geared person every 15 secs. Hes jump timer is what, 15 secs? So basicly, thats what I get to do per 15 secs if I want to kite, if I stop to do anything he does have interrupts and can stop my channeling FL easy and stop me from using it, and thats what I have to do to instantly apply my good dot.

 

I cant interrupt him, because everything he got is instant.

 

So the scenario is that he can jump from my full cast distance up in my face and root me for 2 secs, so the fight always more or less starts in my pants. All hes moves are instant, and hits way harder than mine, as I have to be left alone to do any real dmg, he is 100% mobile. So lets say I knock him back and start to FL - so fare so good, now I start to cast my FL to hopefully get a proc for my CL or CD. Lets say I get the proc, then I can CL him! Woot, 1400 dmg non crit, and now hes on me again hitting for 4k. Then I forcer speed off and start to FL again, and apply ddots while running. Now I got around 5 sec, or almost 2 FL before he can jump on me again, and now both my speed and knockback is down. That means game over. Nothing to be done.

 

They designed caster very poorly in this game. Being the weakest in most everything is really bad hehe. We are good as healers, and dps on raids, in pvp we are not. Like 1 gent said, we are good at annoying people, and they are like "**** it, let him run, I get the other guy over here" Left alone, we do alot of dmg, I wont deny that, we really do. But get on us, and its like Homer Simpson chasing a burger that tries to kite him.

 

Ohh and another thing - Like every other game the melee always scales to well comared to casters. A guy that rely on hes weapons dmg, will ALWAYS hit harder than a caster that does not. When they get a better weapon, they are much better off than a guy that rely purely on stats, and not a fixed dmg on a weapon.

[XenonParsec]

Actually for madness spec is a well known and good pvp spec, so saying its not, well... Then you havent played sorc.

 

valor 60 Sorc here. If you're not doing 0/18/23 you're doing it wrong.

 

TOP SECRET KNOWLEDGE: 0/23/18 is actually even better.

[Anthiel]

valor 60 Sorc here. If you're not doing 0/18/23 you're doing it wrong.

 

TOP SECRET KNOWLEDGE: 0/23/18 is actually even better.

 

this right here.

[Thuull]

/laugh. Sorc tears.

 

/laugh some more.

[vindianajones]

Why so surprised? Numerous issues with sorc/sage despite the general mouth-breathing keyboard turners view they are "OP" . This mainly stems from the fact sorcs will run off rather than getting beaten and that really pisses people off. I've yet to see nerf threads that relate to sorc burning down every class 1v1, consistently winning 1v2s or 1v3s. We just annoy the **** out of people with speed, slow on lightning, blind on bubble, snare, root on KB etc.

 

Should we expect that our 3 second chanelled cast should do more than 2-3k damage (if it crits twice) on an equally geared (champ) opponent? Yes. Especially when any other class can wind up 4 - 5k crits on us and that includes tanks.

 

Should we expect that our lightning tree be fixed? Hell yes.

 

Should we expect to be able to have more than 2 skills in rotation that aren't DoTs, some form of CC or rely on a proc to use effectively? I think so.

 

Should we expect the class to scale properly after 50 in good gear? Of course.

 

Should we expect any kind of reasonable debate on a web forum? No chance, bring in the QQers.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your points, but people (including yourself) need to stop using the term "tank" when describing big hits coming from classes with a tank tree. You seem to be asking for players to look at the Sorcerer class with a reasonable lens instead of just complaining arbitrarily about the CC abilities. That's fine. Now I'm asking that you do the same. My Guardian - when specc'ed to be able to crit for 4k - is no longer a tank and is just as, if not more squishy than, your Sorcerer.

 

Your class is simply not doing a lot of burst damage and shouldn't. There are other ranged classes available if that's what you want. Mercs, Snipers, DPS specc'ed Vanguards/Powertechs. The Sorcerer does good sustained damage and has arguably the best CC/Kiting toolkit in the game, along with heals and a bubble that don't suck. Do I think they need a nerf? No, not at all, but they certainly don't need a buff.

Edited February 7, 2012 by vindianajones

[richardya]

A good Sorcerer knows that to get caught is to die and that kiting is required.

 

It's not that challenging.

[Drack]

I went with that as well, tho I think full madness is best. The bubble that explodes actually breaks instantly if you have people dottet, so its not that good if you want lightning procs =) They are decent specs I agree, but its not wrong to have other specs =)

[Roak]

lol

 

/5

[Eclipso]

The statements in this thread are valid and I agree with everyone, I think if they were to change Tumlit (Sp?) into a single target force push would alievate alot of the issues with keeping someone out of mele range.

[Drack]

I'm not disagreeing with your points, but people (including yourself) need to stop using the term "tank" when describing big hits coming from classes with a tank tree. You seem to be asking for players to look at the Sorcerer class with a reasonable lens instead of just complaining arbitrarily about the CC abilities. That's fine. Now I'm asking that you do the same. My Guardian - when specc'ed to be able to crit for 4k - is no longer a tank and is just as, if not more squishy than, your Sorcerer.

 

Your class is simply not doing a lot of burst damage and shouldn't. There are other ranged classes available if that's what you want. Mercs, Snipers, DPS specc'ed Vanguards/Powertechs. The Sorcerer does good sustained damage and has arguably the best CC/Kiting toolkit in the game, along with heals and a bubble that don't suck. Do I think they need a nerf? No, not at all, but they certainly don't need a buff.

 

Thats wrong right there, you still wear heavy armor if your dps specced. Mercs have heals, heavy armor and high burst =) Im not sure why you say that sorcs shouldnt have high burst as a fact. Its a stupid design, because they dont have it not, dont mean they shouldnt. Can you give me an exable of another game where a dps caster have the lowest burst in the game?

[AKfourtyseven]

 

I think they wanted to make the lighting tree a burst dmg tree, but it did most certainly not turn out that way. It is a broken tree to say the least, for pvp atleast.

 

 

I just want to point this out to all those flaming the OP.

 

This sounds like he is 31pts deep into lightning. If so, coming from a Sorc who PvPd with this for a long time, the tree is horrible for PvP and the issues raised about it are actually correct. It has less burst than almost any DPS tree, but it has he added negative that unless you proc lightning strike you are forced to stand still for all your DPS other than shock.

 

Everyone likes to complain about Sorc in PvP but go and ask how many of those Sorc are x/31/x and you will quickly see the evidence that something is wrong.

 

Ive been saying it for a long time, the Sorc trees need a rebalance so that going 31pts in lightning is not a waste of time (without making the possible power of the class greater).

Edited February 7, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[Sookster]

Sorcs are the FOTM right now, majority of sorc/sages I see are just bad, they use only 1 ability (lightning/tk) and overload/wave and rinse & repeat. Good ones will stick dots on everyone they see and CC the others and then lightning/tk the weakened ones. I've seen sorcs on my team go 0 deaths even with a scounderal and sentinal harassing them the entire match.

 

On my lethality operative, most of the sorcs/sages I fight die, or don't know what to do other than knock me away and force speed off and then attempt to lightning/tk me while I cloak myself out of combat.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Sookster

[Vewdo]

A sorc complaining.....

 

 

awesome.

 

yeah what! haha if a sorc is complaining he needs to L2P

[DarthxRage]

Ummmm, you're doing it wrong. I run with undergeared sorcerers all the time and they are freaking AMAZING. 3 sorc + my jug is gg in huttball.

[vindianajones]

Thats wrong right there, you still wear heavy armor if your dps specced. Mercs have heals, heavy armor and high burst =) Im not sure why you say that sorcs shouldnt have high burst as a fact. Its a stupid design, because they dont have it not, dont mean they shouldnt. Can you give me an exable of another game where a dps caster have the lowest burst in the game?

 

Heavy armor does next to jack in PvP. Almost all big attacks are "yellow" damage and are going to ignore your armor and not have a chance to be shielded. Defensive stats on gear don't do a whole lot either. Simply having heavy armor does not protect you from much at all. Your best defenses are your HP, talents and defensive cooldowns. My heavy armor character drops like a fly just like any other DPS class when specc'ed and geared for damage. Maybe I can survive for an extra second because of it, but it essentially makes very little difference.

 

I can't name a game in which the DPS caster has the lowest burst in the game, but I also can't name a balanced game in which the DPS caster has excellent CC, healing ability, defensive bubbles, and great kiting/escape mechanisms. This is not your traditional fire mage. If you want that, you should be willing to give up the bubble, the heals and some of the CC. Then you can have all the burst you want. The glass cannon type mage that you're looking for will get ripped to shreds when someone catches them. Sorcerers do not have this problem. They can get away, they can heal, they can shield. They're fine the way they are.

 

Mercs fit fine in this discussion. Their burst is higher than yours because they have nowhere near the quality of escape/CC that a Sage/Sorcerer has. If you take away their burst they are sitting ducks. I rip Mercs apart, there's very little they can do unless they unload on me before I get the jump on them. They have to do most of my health in damage before I reach them, then they win. If they don't, not a chance. A Sorcerer has a million ways to avoid damage and wittle me down whether he's engaged me first or not.

Edited February 7, 2012 by vindianajones

[ShizuXIII]

So I get AT LEAST 3 sorcerers in every single warzone (usually 4 or 5) because they are hard and challenging and require a 185 IQ to be played.

 

Because mmorpg players are known to always play the hardest class.

Even more so in a game where you can reach lv50 in two weeks.

 

I see.

 

 

 

 

Also, lol at "not enough burst damage".

First, it's ********.

Second, it would be a valid complaint if "burst" was the purpose of your class.

But you are the best healer AND the best cc'er AND the best sustained damage dealer.

 

Lol again at "QQQQQ can't kite".

You are THE KINGS of kiting. Only on Aion I have seen a class as tard-proof as sorcerers are.

Perma-snare, shield, sprint, force-push.

If you have trouble keeping melee away from you, you are totally hopeless.

So, by any means, stick to your precious sorcerer, because any class except commando would be a very shocking experience.

Edited February 7, 2012 by ShizuXIII

[killername]

You're bad at sorc. That's all there is to it.

[DestyOwn]

like every sages/sorcs says when we say their class is OP, L2P.

 

if you cant play an OP class , i dont even wanna see you try a marauder or a sniper.

[dadeeyoh]

Idiot Sorcs/Sages....

 

It's not one power that makes your class OP. It's all the tools you get that make you OP. Stuns,snares,heals,shields, and force speed or whatever it is called.

 

Now add to those things above your ability to deal great damage and lets be clear about it you do great damage and if you don't then your probably just bad.

 

The Op is just a bad sorc who rolled one because he thought he would have one button to mash and make him win. Luckily Sorcs/Sages need to press a lot of buttons to make them good. But the other classes in the game dont get anywhere near the amount of utility mixed with great damage.

 

The proof is in the pudding look around you there is a reason why everyone you see is a sorc/sage. Why would anyone play anything else if they know they can get the most utility in the game as well as great damage plus be able to heal......