Sage/Sorc needs a nerf!!

[wwkingms]

someone please clear it up

 

what exactly is op about us?

 

is it our dmg because our Single Target Dmg is one of the lowest in the dps classes

 

is it our survivability? because we might have a bubble but we wear light armor and have ZERO defensive cooldowns which every other class has

 

is it our cc? because every other class has stuns, mezz's knockbacks and snares?

 

is it our healing? mercs and ops can heal as well.. in fact mercs are healers in heavy armor and survive much longer than sorc healers..

 

 

 

so we dont have the best burst,

we dont have the best survivability

we have the same cc's as every other class

we have equal heals as every other healing class

we cant stealth, we take the most hazard damage..

 

these threads blow my mind because we're not the best at anything and yet complaining persists

 

the ONLY reason we're complained about because its the most played class

 

and the second anyone gets two sorcs channeling force lightning on them at the same time they run to the forums..

 

but 2 tracer missile mercs would drop u faster, two operatives would drop u WAY faster, 2 smash juggers would drop u faster, 2 snipers would drop u faster

 

 

so STOP COMPLAINING because you know not

[Tristanian]

And btw, project is a guaranteed hit that is not determined by the animation. If someone stealths during the animation, they still get hit by the skill.

 

Btw, you are wrong. If someone vanishes during project, the boulder just stays in the air doing 0 damage. It has happened millions of times to notice really. Only if they try to LOS do they still get hit (it goes through walls, which is somewhat hilarious).

 

Not only are they the best 1v1 class, they also stack better than any other class.

 

They aren't. If you allow them an opener of dots and lightning/TK throw, then you deserve to die. Get them anywhere in the open and pretty much anyone can easily stand toe to toe against them, most notably Powertechs, Marauders, Juggs, hell even some skilled scrappers. The only class they can kill relatively easy is snipers.

 

Do they stack up good ? Sure thing. The same can be said for other classes though. Ever seen a group of Bounty hunters supporting each other ? I will admit that their stacking is incredible for Huttball, but again that is not a problem with the class, but with the mechanics allowed in that warzone.

 

Oh, one big problem is that their 2 minute autocrit cooldown that makes lightning 30 range makes EVERY TICK crit. If it made the first tick crit or made force lightning longer range rather than making it crit that would be far less abusive. Currently they pop their cooldown and for 6 seconds they are autocritting you for huge damage and snaring you to boot. "Use your interrupts" good plan, but you will die or they will be done channelling by the time you can close to do so. "Oh but some classes have a closer" so they do, then the sequence becomes knockback, autocrit, lightning spam. It's far more powerful than it should be.

 

You are talking about stacking again though. If one sorc does that to you (and he will do it, so he can proc an instant ability), there are plenty of ways to deal with him. In all honesty, the only "problem" with sages/sorcs are certain hybrid builds such as healer/TK-Lightning or TK-Lightning/Balance that has a bit more utility than probably intended, cc wise. Easy to fix by slightly moving talents around, so as to make those specs not viable. Pure healer/Lightning/Balance sorcs should never be an issue for a good player/team.

[TetraCleric]

Even if the assassin can win a 1v1 fight he absolutely can't do it before the Sage goes trololo peace out and either runs back to his team or just hangs 30 meters off the objective negating any cap attempts and running if you try to deal with them. Sure, you can try to run them off while a friend caps, and then the second sorc does the same thing with him... saying "We can be beat 2v1" is far from balanced.

 

Not only are they the best 1v1 class, they also stack better than any other class.

 

Oh, one big problem is that their 2 minute autocrit cooldown that makes lightning 30 range makes EVERY TICK crit. If it made the first tick crit or made force lightning longer range rather than making it crit that would be far less abusive. Currently they pop their cooldown and for 6 seconds they are autocritting you for huge damage and snaring you to boot. "Use your interrupts" good plan, but you will die or they will be done channelling by the time you can close to do so. "Oh but some classes have a closer" so they do, then the sequence becomes knockback, autocrit, lightning spam. It's far more powerful than it should be.

 

Well if the Sage/Sorc is running to teammates, its no longer a 1v1, in which case why are we even talking about it because we were talking about 1v1's, nothing else.

[TetraCleric]

Btw, you are wrong. If someone vanishes during project, the boulder just stays in the air doing 0 damage. It has happened millions of times to notice really. Only if they try to LOS do they still get hit (it goes through walls, which is somewhat hilarious).

 

 

 

 

Nope, tested it, it still hits.

[savionen]

So I attack a Sorc

 

 

I use my gap closer, he has bubble up, i do 4k dmg bubble breaks and im ccd for 3 seconds, another bubble goes up and he knocks me back and roots me, I can't trinket it because hell stun me if i do so i eAt the root and knockback and run back to him, snared while i move at him I get there in about 6 seconds, I break his second bubble for 4k, and I'm cc'd again, 3 seconds later I'm attacking him without bubble for the first time, his bubble will be up again in 8 seconds.

 

So he whirlwinds me, and runs to max range again, and snares me, so I run to him and bubble is up, and I break it (another 4k) and im cc'd again for 3 seconds. So he force sprints and hes at max range again, so I wade towards him (snared) and oh good knockbacks off cooldown

 

REPEAT AD *********** NAUSEUM, a good sorc can just CC run away bubble knockback root snare whirlwind force sprint ALL *********** DAY, if i stun him he trinkets, if i trinket anything he stuns me. They have too much control. Period, there is no counter, period.

 

Nerf sorc

 

This right here.

 

Doesn't matter if a sorcerer/sage's damage is mediocre if you can never actually damage them.

Edited February 6, 2012 by savionen

[nophere]

So I attack a Sorc

 

 

I use my gap closer, he has bubble up, i do 4k dmg bubble breaks and im ccd for 3 seconds, another bubble goes up and he knocks me back and roots me, I can't trinket it because hell stun me if i do so i eAt the root and knockback and run back to him, snared while i move at him I get there in about 6 seconds, I break his second bubble for 4k, and I'm cc'd again, 3 seconds later I'm attacking him without bubble for the first time, his bubble will be up again in 8 seconds.

 

So he whirlwinds me, and runs to max range again, and snares me, so I run to him and bubble is up, and I break it (another 4k) and im cc'd again for 3 seconds. So he force sprints and hes at max range again, so I wade towards him (snared) and oh good knockbacks off cooldown

 

REPEAT AD *********** NAUSEUM, a good sorc can just CC run away bubble knockback root snare whirlwind force sprint ALL *********** DAY, if i stun him he trinkets, if i trinket anything he stuns me. They have too much control. Period, there is no counter, period.

 

Nerf sorc

 

Reminds me of a frost mage no?

[Tristanian]

So I attack a Sorc

 

 

I use my gap closer, he has bubble up, i do 4k dmg bubble breaks and im ccd for 3 seconds, another bubble goes up and he knocks me back and roots me, I can't trinket it because hell stun me if i do so i eAt the root and knockback and run back to him, snared while i move at him I get there in about 6 seconds, I break his second bubble for 4k, and I'm cc'd again, 3 seconds later I'm attacking him without bubble for the first time, his bubble will be up again in 8 seconds.

 

So he whirlwinds me, and runs to max range again, and snares me, so I run to him and bubble is up, and I break it (another 4k) and im cc'd again for 3 seconds. So he force sprints and hes at max range again, so I wade towards him (snared) and oh good knockbacks off cooldown

 

REPEAT AD *********** NAUSEUM, a good sorc can just CC run away bubble knockback root snare whirlwind force sprint ALL *********** DAY, if i stun him he trinkets, if i trinket anything he stuns me. They have too much control. Period, there is no counter, period.

 

Nerf sorc

 

You forgot to mention the part where your resolve bar gets filled up, at which point he can't run away, if he has used force speed. Nice try though.

[Baconmonster]

Utility is why they have those numbers to begin with.

 

I'm specifically talking about ability numbers not final score PvP numbers. I have very little issue with sorcs damage, or healing. If they're specced for one they should be good with one. Like I've said something about this class needs to be tweaked. It is by no means broken but it is THE most useful class regardless of spec. But, if it's nerfed overmuch, or in the wrong area it will become worthless. Sorcs/Sages walk an interesting line, they're not OP but they're not balanced. I honestly can pick out 3-5 things I would tweak on the Powertech (my class) and most other classes to make them more balanced, I just can't do that with Sages/Sorcs.

 

I mean if you had to change one thing about them, as a nerf what would you do? This is just more of a curiosity question on my part.

[Fidopro]

the sorc might be the easiest class to play in the history of MMOs

 

amazing amount of utility, they can do it all. BGS are infested with them...BW needs to do something fast

[nophere]

someone please clear it up

 

what exactly is op about us?

 

is it our dmg because our Single Target Dmg is one of the lowest in the dps classes

 

is it our survivability? because we might have a bubble but we wear light armor and have ZERO defensive cooldowns which every other class has

 

is it our cc? because every other class has stuns, mezz's knockbacks and snares?

 

is it our healing? mercs and ops can heal as well.. in fact mercs are healers in heavy armor and survive much longer than sorc healers..

 

 

 

so we dont have the best burst,

we dont have the best survivability

we have the same cc's as every other class

we have equal heals as every other healing class

we cant stealth, we take the most hazard damage..

 

these threads blow my mind because we're not the best at anything and yet complaining persists

 

the ONLY reason we're complained about because its the most played class

 

and the second anyone gets two sorcs channeling force lightning on them at the same time they run to the forums..

 

but 2 tracer missile mercs would drop u faster, two operatives would drop u WAY faster, 2 smash juggers would drop u faster, 2 snipers would drop u faster

 

 

so STOP COMPLAINING because you know not

 

This post made me LOL HARD.

 

You have the BEST survivability in the game BY FAR and if you dont agree then you are just bad at your class.

[Tristanian]

I'm specifically talking about ability numbers not final score PvP numbers. I have very little issue with sorcs damage, or healing. If they're specced for one they should be good with one. Like I've said something about this class needs to be tweaked. It is by no means broken but it is THE most useful class regardless of spec. But, if it's nerfed overmuch, or in the wrong area it will become worthless. Sorcs/Sages walk an interesting line, they're not OP but they're not balanced. I honestly can pick out 3-5 things I would tweak on the Powertech (my class) and most other classes to make them more balanced, I just can't do that with Sages/Sorcs.

 

I mean if you had to change one thing about them, as a nerf what would you do? This is just more of a curiosity question on my part.

 

Move the force wave snare higher up in any of the trees, move snare on bubble break talent to the balance tree, at least tier 4-5. People would have to choose between type of utility.

[infamousNate]

problem?

 

MARAUDERS ARE OP!!!!

 

 

 

see what i did there?

 

 

L2P man.

[Skeptical]

You forgot to mention the part where your resolve bar gets filled up, at which point he can't run away, if he has used force speed. Nice try though.

 

Except roots and snares aren't affected by Resolve, smart guy.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Skeptical

[wwkingms]

This post made me LOL HARD.

 

You have the BEST survivability in the game BY FAR and if you dont agree then you are just bad at your class.

 

wrong sorry

 

least dmg mitigation, no defensive cooldowns

 

a bubble only makes up for the fact we have the lowest health pools in the game

 

go away now

[Jabbb]

You forgot to mention the part where your resolve bar gets filled up, at which point he can't run away, if he has used force speed. Nice try though.

 

Resolve is useless and wears away after only a few seconds, if you track resolve during the above encounter you'll find it will wear away during the times I'm snared and wading towards the sorc, since snares dont affect resolve the snared and running period is the perfect time for useless resolve to drip back down to 800 so I can eat the next CC

[nophere]

wrong sorry

 

least dmg mitigation, no defensive cooldowns

 

a bubble only makes up for the fact we have the lowest health pools in the game

 

go away now

 

Are you trolling or really that clueless about your own class?

[Tristanian]

Except roots and snares aren't affected by Resolve, smart guy.

 

Whirlwind alone is enough to fill the resolve bar to almost 90%.

[infamousNate]

im gonna bumb this again with this:

 

 

 

alot of you people need to learn to play

[Kelticfury]

How about you get the pack of ***** surgically extracted from your throat and lean to read.

 

That Shock and near invincibility while willing to kite means... no class can cap a point from them with remotely equal numbers. Even badly outnumbered 2-3 sorcs take long enough to kill that when you do kill one of them they have rezzed and run back before you can kill the next. It's very annoying to play against the teams that are 8+ Sage/Sorcs. When you hit 50 you'll see.

 

Shock does low dmg, bubble mitigates 3k damage. My bubble gets popped on the first swing so many times its ridculous. Instead of saying how much I suck when i know the reality of my class, you should be examining your own knowledge of yours.

 

And ofcourse you do realize that you can't solo 3 of anything right? what you are crying about equally applies to any heal spec, 2 or 3 healers are hard. You just have a hard on for sorcs for some reason and if someone contradicts you in any way they must be a bad or not know how to read or some other grasping at straws insult you will pull out of your hat. Did a sorc kill your mom or something?

 

8+ sage sorcs on a team... yeah that happens all day long every day. NERF EVERY CLASS that has more than one per team! What a twonk.

[Tristanian]

Resolve is useless and wears away after only a few seconds, if you track resolve during the above encounter you'll find it will wear away during the times I'm snared and wading towards the sorc, since snares dont affect resolve the snared and running period is the perfect time for useless resolve to drip back down to 800 so I can eat the next CC

 

I'm aware of that fact. The question is why on earth arent you using your own snares or stun him when he is about to run away. Moreover, you do realize that the sorcs only tactic to kill any melee, when actively targeted/engaged by him, is to kite, right ? So you are asking for what exactly ? They stay there and take your damage ? Seriously ? Not to mention the fact that all that time you had the sorc effectively pressured and out of the fight. Now, if you allowed him to peel you off an objective so that his team can cap, whose fault is it ?

[sithgrizley]

They aren't. If you allow them an opener of dots and lightning/TK throw, then you deserve to die. Get them anywhere in the open and pretty much anyone can easily stand toe to toe against them, most notably Powertechs, Marauders, Juggs, hell even some skilled scrappers. The only class they can kill relatively easy is snipers.

 

Problem is, all fights start at range so they can start with their dots and lightning before you are in range for any sort of counterplay. If you use a gap closer or they come around a corner and see you they have their choice of CC's or knockbacks and then you're back at range and they start the exact same combo.

 

Of all the classes I agree a Powertech probably has the best shot at it, but I would say it would be a big stretch to say they have a clear advantage. Marauders that can handle overly complex and contrived rotations while weaving in their interrupts well also will perform pretty well 1v1. However, stacked marauders get ruined by stacked Sorcs and I would say have a much higher difficulty to play well vs a Sorc.

 

 

Do they stack up good ? Sure thing. The same can be said for other classes though. Ever seen a group of Bounty hunters supporting each other ? I will admit that their stacking is incredible for Huttball, but again that is not a problem with the class, but with the mechanics allowed in that warzone.

 

A group of mercs on huttball can be pretty bad too, however they lack the instant support the sorcs have and have far less in the way of utility. They need to blow a cooldown to cast their CC instantly vs putting a couple talents into the spec. Their CC has no guarenteed stun after breaking. I think their sustained ranged damage is higher, but they don't have the utility to back it up.

 

Other things they don't have, Force Speed.

 

You are talking about stacking again though. If one sorc does that to you (and he will do it, so he can proc an instant ability), there are plenty of ways to deal with him. In all honesty, the only "problem" with sages/sorcs are certain hybrid builds such as healer/TK-Lightning or TK-Lightning/Balance that has a bit more utility than probably intended, cc wise. Easy to fix by slightly moving talents around, so as to make those specs not viable. Pure healer/Lightning/Balance sorcs should never be an issue for a good player/team.

 

I agree that pure lightning spam isn't the most powerful way to play a sorc, both stacked and solo you want some in utility/heals.

 

Lets take a look at the Merc from before. At range the sorc pops his autocrit lightning and starts nuking. The Mercs only defensive response is to use his 1 min cooldown stun to interrupt. If he would like to interrupt anything else for the next minute he has to run up into melee range to knock them back. If he sits there spamming tracer missles against the force lighting + shields he loses. If he tries casting heals between TMs he loses. The problem is not that sorcs are too good with one button like some people say, it's that they have a fantastic 1 button offense backed up with a whole lot of utility/CC/survivability buttons.

[mondose]

the sorc might be the easiest class to play in the history of MMOs

 

amazing amount of utility, they can do it all. BGS are infested with them...BW needs to do something fast

 

 

sigh... this game takes little skill but if u want to argue about which class takes the least amount of skill to play your probably right on the sage/couns

 

but if you want to argue which class takes more skill to actually be "good" at the game then yuh sages/sorc are prob the one that takes most to play at there full potential

 

utility and low dps is much harder to use then straight up dps

 

and if you do not understand that (which i do not think u do) your probably some melee dps scrub that hardly understands pvp in these types of games

[wwkingms]

Are you trolling or really that clueless about your own class?

 

im a battlemaster and actually play my class better than most and most people on my server tell me so

 

this class has NO surivability outside of running away, and most decent players focus us first because we do die so easily

 

 

you want to see survivability?

marauder cooldowns, assassin hyrbid builds (for now), tracer spamming mercs in heavy armor with energy shield on cooldown. i see other classes tanking 5 people with their health barely moving as they walk thru a flame pit

 

sorc's die EASY to any focus at all.

 

if u cant deal with that then this game isnt carebear enough for you and ur terribad

Edited February 7, 2012 by wwkingms

[TetraCleric]

im a battlemaster and actually play my class better than most and most people on my server tell me so

 

this class has NO surivability outside of running away, and most decent players focus us first because we do die so easily

 

 

you want to see survivability?

marauder cooldowns, assassin hyrbid builds (for now), tracer spamming mercs in heavy armor with energy shield on cooldown. i see other classes tanking 5 people with their health barely moving as they walk thru a flame pit

 

sorc's die EASY to any focus at all.

 

if u cant deal with that then this game isnt carebear enough for you and ur terribad

 

obviously youre wrong because the forums cant kill sorcs

 

 

/sarcasm

[Baconmonster]

Move the force wave snare higher up in any of the trees, move snare on bubble break talent to the balance tree, at least tier 4-5. People would have to choose between type of utility.

 

This is the kinda stuff I'm talking about. Thank you, as someone who hasn't had as much playtime with this class I'm clearly not the most knowledgeable person. It's nice to get someone who is willing to work with me on getting a firmer grasp on it.