Sage/Sorc needs a nerf!!

[Edex]

Ok lets just face the facts people, THEY ARE OP. At best people try to defend this class by picking one specific point. Such as heals, you can interrupt heals blah blah. Bubble, you can pop it with enough damage blah blah. Or dps, they dont do the best possible dps in the game! blah blah. Have the people defending this class ever considered that it is the ability to do all these things so well that makes it op? Would you rather :

 

1.tank

2.dps

3.heal

4.all of the above?

 

If you answered 4 congrats, that is a sorc/sage. Even a tracer spamming merc has to sacrifice some utility to buff his main 1 button attack.

[Cephim]

1.tank

2.dps

3.heal

4.all of the above?

 

If you answered 4 congrats, that is a sorc/sage. Even a tracer spamming merc has to sacrifice some utility to buff his main 1 button attack.

 

If you answered either 1 or 4, congratulations: you are retarded.

[Zarrot]

He who asks for nerfs should thus be banned. Seriously. don't be a child and ask for nerfs. Ask for other classes to be buffed.

[Siguro]

Coz they outgear you. If you can't beat a sage or a sorc in similar gear then you need to learn to. It's not difficult, and if you need to come to the forums and ask for a class nerf then you are more than likely lacking in gear, skill or experience or all three .

 

i agree.

i dont complane when a meele jumps on me and dowing crits of like 3.5k ore 4k.

its just a fact if you let me cast 4 dots on you and let me start casting you are dead.(and i dont have average crits of 4k+)

its the same on melee if you let dem hit you for more then 7secs a sith will be dead also.

siths cant kill sombady in like 4 hits melee classes can.

these days you can yump/pull/stun/sleep/freeze/slow and so much more what do you want ?

you want to be abel to just run relaxed to a ranged class and nuke dem down?

 

i just want to say stop with these post of nerf this class ore this class balnce of these classes are ok you just need to learn gow to play with dem.

[da_krall]

Ok lets just face the facts people, THEY ARE OP. At best people try to defend this class by picking one specific point. Such as heals, you can interrupt heals blah blah. Bubble, you can pop it with enough damage blah blah. Or dps, they dont do the best possible dps in the game! blah blah. Have the people defending this class ever considered that it is the ability to do all these things so well that makes it op? Would you rather :

 

1.tank

2.dps

3.heal

4.all of the above?

 

If you answered 4 congrats, that is a sorc/sage. Even a tracer spamming merc has to sacrifice some utility to buff his main 1 button attack.

 

How the **** do they tank?? really????? make more **** up

 

Another post by a moron

[Ugugg]

Too bad its not a 1v1 game.

 

its a 8 sorc game.

[Blueberrycookie]

nerf.com !

[Blukz]

its a 8 sorc game.

 

It's true. People are rolling sorcs/sages everyday because of how good they are and it sucks

[Waagabond]

i only just saw this. You smoking crack dude? "hands down the nest defensive cooldowns".. Oh my.. really... so 1 bubble that absobs like 3k dmg every 20seconds is the best defensive cooldown in the game? Or do you mean that super awesome light armour? defensive utility? you must mean that super long cast heal that crits for 4k right.. but you totally dont have interrupts and stuns to stop that. Or you mean the force sprint? but wait you totally don't have stuns to stop that.

 

I just despair at the intelligence (or lack of) of people nowadays

 

Just got out of another huttball which ended up as 2 of my guilds premades against each other + some randoms. i wonder who who got insta tunneled by my enemy guild team.. Oh you guessed it. Now guess how long i lived. But wait. by most peopls logic that must make both of those two overpowered as i couldnt 1v2 beat them. nerf BH and maraurders! (See whut i did there)

 

No other class have a bubble, that talented have 17 seconds cooldown and can sustain around 3.5k damage when in champ gear, in full BM gear I would imagine you can top this to up to possibly 4k absorb., 17 sec cd, instant cast, 4k heal.

 

Thats more then a commando or mercs 21 second cd 31 point talent in the healing tree.

 

Add swift movement to this, insta cc, channeled dps snare, knockback with snare, blind on bubble burst.

 

Come on dude.

 

And for those that sais they cant tank.

 

In PVP, its called tanking when you have multiple enemies on you trying to beat you down and you are surviving. It does not matter what class you have.

As a matter of fact, tanking in PVP is most often referred to healers, not actual tanks.

 

Only a healer can properly tank in pvp, being able to cast heals while being hit upon.

 

And if you interupt the sage heal he can cast another one.

 

You do realize that scounrel and operative interupt is on a 12 second cooldown?

Powertech and vanguard interupt is on an 8 second cool down? (6 second with talents in a useless tree),

 

Sure you can kick, flash bang etc but after one kick or one flash the resolve bar is full so you get one or the other, kick for scoundrels is preferable.

 

I say again, I think its the bubble that makes this class so op.

 

Take away the bubble from baseline and stick it as a tier 4 or 5 talent in the healing tree of sorcs and take away the 2 sec stun from the "cyklone" cc and I think thats all needed to make the class more balanced.

 

This means pve sorc, sage healers are just as they are now, but hybrid specs have no bubble and no stun on their cc but have their swift movement ability as a defensive mechanism. 20 sec cd for that sprint speed....

 

If any class should have that sprint speed it should be operatives and scoundrels, then again that would make them OP....solution: Give it to sorcs.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Waagabond

[Faat]

I still feel no nerf is needed. Rather I would like to see resolve tweaked. Roots should effect resolve, period. The jump smash knock back skill should fill a bar just as much as force push or force choke or force pull. Lets face it, in PvP this is one of the most OP skills around; it does decent damage for a CC and knocks people off walks, into fire/acid/forever falls to death etc. It can be talented to root for no resolve (which almost every player has) and has a short CD compared to almost any other CC in game.

 

Adjust resolve so that root can be calculated in a decent amount and the whole Merc/sorc nerf threads will go away a great deal.

 

The damage of both classes is spot on imho. They are glass cannons and each skill should take 2-3 seconds to cast and do a lot of damage. The channels and instant casts should do a lot less damage but offer utility. Slowed movement/knock down/stun/root etc but effect resolve for all but slowing movement.

 

This many never happen, but oh well. These days if you want good PvP, its probably best to wait on GW2... if its anywhere close to GW1 PvP it will be greatly enjoyable.

 

PvE wise in this game, both classes seem great to me; but I dont play them, just with them.

 

I know it's frustrating sometimes to fight Sorcs / Sages with classes that can't compete CC / cooldown wise, but on my vanguard I absolutely destroy them and they have a hard time dealing with me, even if they manage to survive, they'll have to heal themselves ONLY and kite / ask for help because they're in deep trouble when I'm on their case.

 

Just an example of a fight vs a sorc as a vanguard. We see each other, I use sticky grenade as I close the gap running to him, he's standing still casting some lightning / healing. If he's smart, he will mez me right away, and I DO NOT want to burn my CC break cooldown on that, that buys him a few extra seconds. If he dosen't mez, I get in range, gut / stockstrike / HiB / ion pulse spam / interrupt. He will most likely try to punt / root me and get out of LoS, I can pull / root him to counter his move. He can then stun me then LoS, I CC break and leap / root him. I keep interrupting him, cycling gut / stockstrike / ion pulses and STUN when he's around 30% health. By that time, he usually have his CC breaker on cooldown due to him panicking being rooted close to me.

 

Most tanks have the upperhand vs Sorcs / sages, but most players playing tanks are too dumb to constantly harass them. Sure, if you charge a Sorc all alone against many ennemies, you'll die, but if your team engages an ennemy team with equal numbers on both sides, chances are that you'll win because you'll completely remove the sorc / sage from the fight. Just don't burn your pull / leap and stun, counter his CC with yours.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Paralassa
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[Waagabond]

And another thing: The resolve bar will not be the solution.

That would just make cc even stronger in this game and a would mean 2 sorcs would be far more powerful together then what they already are.

 

You only look at yourself as being the victim of resolve and immune, but you dont look at YOUR victims.

 

Make bubble top tier or 5 tier talent in healing tree. Removing it completely from baseline.

Remove 2 sec stun from lightning cage cc and the class is the same for PVE, but nerfed for PVP.

 

This would place the class when specd for dps to have defensive cooldowns in the form of utility cc and sprint, but lacking the bubble which is the #1 complaint.

 

It would also make full sage or sorc healers more viable and above all, more FUN to play for those that enjoys mainly healing.

 

To be an effective sorc or sage today you are forced to spec 21, 20 or you are honestly gimping yourself. Why would you NOT want to have the best of two worlds when its within your grasp?

 

Its not major things that needs changing, but its the small things.

And if you think bubble is a major thing thats cause you are dps specd, and you have your cc and sprint to rely on to survive, and thats far more then other classes already have, be glad for that. But your squishy so you need that sprint, I can live with it, but the bubble needs to go bye bye for anyone but full healing specd sages and sorcs.

[Waagabond]

I know it's frustrating sometimes to fight Sorcs / Sages with classes that can't compete CC / cooldown wise, but on my vanguard I absolutely destroy them and they have a hard time dealing with me, even if they manage to survive, they'll have to heal themselves ONLY and kite / ask for help because they're in deep trouble when I'm on their case.

 

Just an example of a fight vs a sorc as a vanguard. We see each other, I use sticky grenade as I close the gap running to him, he's standing still casting some lightning / healing. If he's smart, he will mez me right away, and I DO NOT want to burn my CC break cooldown on that, that buys him a few extra seconds. If he dosen't mez, I get in range, gut / stockstrike / HiB / ion pulse spam / interrupt. He will most likely try to punt / root me and get out of LoS, I can pull / root him to counter his move. He can then stun me then LoS, I CC break and leap / root him. I keep interrupting him, cycling gut / stockstrike / ion pulses and STUN when he's around 30% health. By that time, he usually have his CC breaker on cooldown due to him panicking being rooted close to me.

 

Most tanks have the upperhand vs Sorcs / sages, but most players playing tanks are too dumb to constantly harass them. Sure, if you charge a Sorc all alone against many ennemies, you'll die, but if your team engages an ennemy team with equal numbers on both sides, chances are that you'll win because you'll completely remove the sorc / sage from the fight. Just don't burn your pull / leap and stun, counter his CC with yours.

 

I play both a vanguard and a scoundrel.

 

Vanguards are among top of the pops in 1vs1.

But this game is not about 1vs1, its a team based warzone.

And the utility, cc, damage and heals one class can bring is not balanced.

It makes other classes obsolete.

 

Now play your scenario out where you and your sentinel (to be sure you have enough dps) friend go on that sorc, that have another sorc behind him, and he have a guard by a powertech, and tell me how that fight just went.

Or since thats unfair odds, bring in a 3rd class to balance it out.

You just lost unless they dont know what they are doing.

 

You could always split up and the mara goes for the sorc while you beat on the sorc with guard, or...the proper tactic would be to beat on the tank that is guarding. But...how will you do that when he will kite you, as powertechs and vanguards can, while you are being snared from lighting by one sorc while the 2nd sorc is healing.

What other class did you bring? Unless you brought a sage you are screwed.

And then we are back in the same closet, sage and sorc.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Paralassa

[Edex]

If you answered either 1 or 4, congratulations: you are retarded.

 

Bubble, yes you wont be main tanking a boss in a raid but you can hold your own. Thanks for proving how many idiots can play sorcs tho

[L-RANDLE]

I know it's frustrating sometimes to fight Sorcs / Sages with classes that can't compete CC / cooldown wise, but on my vanguard I absolutely destroy them and they have a hard time dealing with me, even if they manage to survive, they'll have to heal themselves ONLY and kite / ask for help because they're in deep trouble when I'm on their case.

 

Just an example of a fight vs a sorc as a vanguard. We see each other, I use sticky grenade as I close the gap running to him, he's standing still casting some lightning / healing. If he's smart, he will mez me right away, and I DO NOT want to burn my CC break cooldown on that, that buys him a few extra seconds. If he dosen't mez, I get in range, gut / stockstrike / HiB / ion pulse spam / interrupt. He will most likely try to punt / root me and get out of LoS, I can pull / root him to counter his move. He can then stun me then LoS, I CC break and leap / root him. I keep interrupting him, cycling gut / stockstrike / ion pulses and STUN when he's around 30% health. By that time, he usually have his CC breaker on cooldown due to him panicking being rooted close to me.

 

Most tanks have the upperhand vs Sorcs / sages, but most players playing tanks are too dumb to constantly harass them. Sure, if you charge a Sorc all alone against many ennemies, you'll die, but if your team engages an ennemy team with equal numbers on both sides, chances are that you'll win because you'll completely remove the sorc / sage from the fight. Just don't burn your pull / leap and stun, counter his CC with yours.

 

 

Speak on it man. This is the real truth of the matter.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Paralassa

[Lugh]

I just played a huttball where 6 hybrid light / madness sorcs were on the opposite team, each did over 100k healing, when I looked at the other dps classes They didn't do over 15k heals. (IE they didn't opt to do ANY healing at all even though they have the ability to do so)

So why should sorcs be able to heal 7-10 times what another average dps heals for?

And why is static barrier still unaffected by trauma? 4.3k absorb every 17 seconds..

snicker no it isn't a 4.3k absorb it disappears in a single pulse of the Huttball fire at 3300 damage And gives credit for a 2500 heal. It's 2500 talented PERIOD get over it.

And why are dps sorc's main heal larger than every other dps classes main heal.

(5k+ compared to 3.5k crit)

Probably because they are stacking crit/surge and power/alacrity items so they do more all the time anyone and haven't hit a rapidly diminishing return threshold

I mean sorc's seem pretty balanced with their damage output, but someone should look at their healing.

Someone should look at the candle power of the brains of these 'other healers' that are so bad, I imagine it'll be hard to though as it's sure to be DIM

For a hybrid dps spec they should not be rivaling healers numbers.

They don't the heal spec'd folks are obvious they are the ones (regardless of class) that are in the 200kplus category.

 

Editted for truth.

 

PS when you see a Sorceror with guard on him, separate him and his tank. kill the tank then the sorceror. Keep the sorceror harrassed.

 

It's really that easy.

 

Edited February 15, 2012 by Lugh

[jimkan]

nothing of that what you writed is true, actually yea only one thing, they do have too many Cc's and thats so annoying. Like if they were lighting/madness speced level 39-50 whatever, so lighting has that overload makes them unavaiable to move and thats annoying second annoying thing, they do have too many abilities to survive in combat, they made assassins/shadows pretty well but sorcerers too op, i just hope they dont nerf the sorcerers/sages too much, "just a lil bit."

[L-RANDLE]

I play both a vanguard and a scoundrel.

 

Vanguards are among top of the pops in 1vs1.

But this game is not about 1vs1, its a team based warzone.

And the utility, cc, damage and heals one class can bring is not balanced.

It makes other classes obsolete.

 

Now play your scenario out where you and your sentinel (to be sure you have enough dps) friend go on that sorc, that have another sorc behind him, and he have a guard by a powertech, and tell me how that fight just went.

Or since thats unfair odds, bring in a 3rd class to balance it out.

You just lost unless they dont know what they are doing.

 

You could always split up and the mara goes for the sorc while you beat on the sorc with guard, or...the proper tactic would be to beat on the tank that is guarding. But...how will you do that when he will kite you, as powertechs and vanguards can, while you are being snared from lighting by one sorc while the 2nd sorc is healing.

What other class did you bring? Unless you brought a sage you are screwed.

And then we are back in the same closet, sage and sorc.

 

 

 

You make a good point. Yes, it is a team game, but how many times does your analysis play out?

 

What about those 1v1 encounters that happen often? Do we dismiss those all together?

 

 

We can't split those two in PvP. The only way you can say someone is overpowed is 1v1, skill for skill, CD for CD, gear for gear, etc. If they outshine any other class on those levels, then nerf. This is not the case. A Vangard just admitted they make Bantha Poo-Doo out of Sorcs on most occasions. While our stuff is frustating, it is not the root cause of the butt-hurt being slung around in this thread. The real issue is that we have nothing we are good at, but solid at just about everything. I know my Sage does not DPS very well, so guess what? Most of my mods are with the thought increaseing my damage output. If you don't heal very well, maybe set mods to more defensive stats. Sages/Sorcs are forced to be utility from the toon creation. For us that uses them as primary, we had to adapt to even quest due to our low level DPS and low base HP. End-game we probably were more knowledgeable to our toon's limitations. I think that is missed is this discussion....

 

Dear Juggs/Maur/Sents/Guards,

 

The funny thing is we socs/sages don't really do anything well besides having quite a few AoE abilities. Most people on this post confuse variety for overpowered.

 

1. Yeah..... its great to stun a person, then insta-cast force lift (and stun on break), but how much HP have you lost because of that? VERY LITTLE!! Like 500HP...Not 5k, FIVE HUNDRED

 

2. Yeah... its great that my force wave/force quake/force in balance can make up for my shear lack of DPS ability and get my "TOTAL DAMAGE" on par in a PvP gameboard total, but in a 1v1 scenario DOES 3-5k crit = 5-7k crit? NOPE!

 

3. Yeah its great being at the 30m range with my spam TK throw with no CD(and auto-slow)..... Oh yeah I forgot, most classes have some sort of mitigation for that like Obliterate...so much for keeping that Jugg/Maurad at bay...

 

4. Yeah, its great to have light armor. Need I say more??????

 

5. Yeah, its great to throw out some Heals to teammates, but 2-3 sec cast and easily interrupted, not very useful unless no enemies are around...

 

6. Yeah, it's great being the annoying little brother who can make your life tough on the battlefield, but how much actual damage can I really cause? NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE IT WORTHY OF A NERF!!!

 

 

Sincerly,

High-Level Sages

[Jahor]

Too bad its not a 1v1 game.

 

Right, PvP is 8v8 in battlegrounds. And if the normal team setup is 4++ sorc/sage peer side it is a clear indicator, this class is to strong compared to other classes.

 

Even with just 4 premade sorc/sage huttball is a bad joke.

bubble + Sprint to get ball, pass ball ... ignoring the first pit

bubble + sprint ... ignoring the first fire trap

bubble + sprint ... to simply jump over the second fire trap

 

if an enemy comes close

- AoE knockback

- stune

- long term CC

- slow

or just DPS him down with the power of 4 spammeble lightninghs/stones.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm happy to actual see healing classes being more powerfull as a long term Cleric (DAoC) and Druid (WoW) player.

 

But what healing spec Scoundrels/Operations are missing (any form of ranged CC/slow or damage absorbtion) Sorcs/Sage get to much.

[Kheld]

Im so sick at the sight of multiple Sorcerors on the opp team I just leave the match.

 

Good job theres no penalty for doing so! Oh wait...............bger

[shefdawg]

I would like to see them make it so that every class is dependable on others, that way there is a reason to play something. I always see at least 5 sorcs per match but on rep side i rarely get in a match with 5 sages, prolly cause i dont do premades. I would love to hear something back from bioware about this cause if they are going to do nothing, ill prolly leave the game as many of you prolly will in a few weeks. its getting that out of hand.