ANALYSIS: Scoundrel is the Worst Class in the Game at Everything

[neandramathal]

You're Infiltration?...

You're doing it wrong. And I don't mean your spec is wrong, I mean you don't have a clue how to play your spec.

 

Shadow Strike = Maul?

That isn't your sustained damage ability, or even really your burst (as you said it's too expensive without proc), it's your free bada-boom when the Exploit Weakness proc and your target's back align.

 

Both your sustained damage and burst comes from project + (whatever the Shadow equivalent of discharge is), while project should be used after you 2x Clairvoyant Strike (or Double Strike if you're not a 31pt Infiltration) for the procs to make it both half cast and deal more damage.

 

Does it make the burst more difficult? Yes. But it also leads to far superior sustained damage... In other words the OP's assessment is accurate.

 

I'm not a full infiltration spec so I know I am at a disadvantage. I have to lower spec for offtanking the pylons.

 

Should've mentioned that (not me trying to withhold info to make a point better, just forgot in amongst a large post that got added to as I thought of things - My apologies), but we do have (sadly, damn loot thief!) another Shadow in our raids who is maxed infil spec and uses Clairvoyant/Project rotation as you described. He doesn't have quite as many resource problems as I do but he does still need to saber strike very frequently, not as frequent as me of course...

 

(EDIT: Infernal Council due to no backstabs the entire fight is Double Strike + Project chains with many saber strikes still required. As said before, my spec is a little lower for dmg)

 

I certainly agree the Scoundrel gets resource starved if you just hammer your buttons for sustained periods (In the PvP sense of pop on target, nuke, escape it is less so), but to say the shadow isn't is a misconception too which is more the intention I was intending to make.

 

I generally stay away from Class forums as everything devolves into a "You are troll go away" or "L2p", especially with mistakes like not mentioning my spec above >.< No one to blame for this one but myself though

 

My field of expertise is more PvP than PvE, so my comments should I hope be more apt in that area. Anyhow, I didn't intend to weigh in and say "LOL SCOUNDREL NOOBS WHINING" or anything along those lines, and I'm not trying to say Shadows have it worse for resource etc, just that it is not the endless supply that several players I have met seem to think it is (Don't mean this thread, just experience from ingame), and that Scoundrels may have the short end of the stick in some areas but I think that 'worst class' is an unfair assessment on the whole. From what I see/know from discussion with friends, they are quite competent for PvP, but PvE I think it's an agreeable title.

 

I don't have a vast knowledge of their toolbox outside of low level and the "OMG They get XYZ!?!?!" from scoundrel friend on vent voice chat, but they still tend to perform very well on average in warzones (my main playground) so they must have something and hey... know your foe etc, can't learn if I don't ask/get corrected

Edited February 18, 2012 by neandramathal

[Xaearth]

I'm not a full infiltration spec so I know I am at a disadvantage. I have to lower spec for offtanking the pylons.

 

Should've mentioned that (not me trying to withhold info to make a point better, just forgot in amongst a large post that got added to as I thought of things - My apologies), but we do have (sadly, damn loot thief!) another Shadow in our raids who is maxed infil spec and uses Clairvoyant/Project rotation as you described. He doesn't have quite as many resource problems as I do but he does still need to saber strike very frequently, not as frequent as me of course...

 

I certainly agree the Scoundrel gets resource starved if you just hammer your buttons for sustained periods (In the PvP sense of pop on target, nuke, escape it is less so), but to say the shadow isn't is a misconception too which is more the intention I was intending to make.

 

Unless you're not specced Dark Embrace err... Shadow's Respite + Masked Assault, you really shouldn't need your basic attack except in very prolonged fights though.

 

The thing is, those prolonged fights, due to Operative/Scoundrel resource and mechanics (their best abilities either require stealth or TA/UH - secondary resource, and their talented melee attacks have 6-9s cooldowns), it's absolutely no contest in sustained damage.

 

That said, hybrid spec changes a lot of things for Assassin/Shadow, especially if you're using a charge/technique other than the Infiltration spec'd one, as project is going to lose a lot of its efficiency. Other than that and/or not taking Shadow's Respite + Masked Assault, not having the 31 pt Infiltration talent doesn't make that much of a difference in force use.

 

I generally stay away from Class forums as everything devolves into a "You are troll go away" or "L2p", especially with mistakes like not mentioning my spec above >.<

 

Apologies if I came off harshly, it's an unfortunate side effect of too many full spec Deception Assassins complaining about how weak they are because all they do is spam maul for big numbers. x.x

 

Really though, even though we both use a backstab attack, for the sole reason that ours is spammable but prohibitively expensive while theirs is on a cooldown but free (if talented), we can't compare the two classes on that attack alone. Ours is more a bene, while theirs is a staple.

[neandramathal]

Apologies if I came off harshly, it's an unfortunate side effect of too many full spec Deception Assassins complaining about how weak they are because all they do is spam maul for big numbers. x.x

 

Really though, even though we both use a backstab attack, for the sole reason that ours is spammable but prohibitively expensive while theirs is on a cooldown but free (if talented), we can't compare the two classes on that attack alone. Ours is more a bene, while theirs is a staple.

 

Heh no you seemed actually very pleasant compared to the majority of posters My own posts often start as one point, and then get built up very randomly so I tend to stay out of posting on forums (particularly class areas) as they are very disjointed and missing bits that I actually DO know >.<

 

As mentioned, PvP is my main play area and in that Scoundrels still do very well, and sustainable damage/resource is less of an issue, but for boss fights I can certainly see it dropping to painful levels. This is the reason I would not call them worst at EVERYTHING though, I think that's a bit extreme.

[Scaj]

Just hit 48 on my Scoundrel and it is by far weaker than my Shadow when it comes to PVE soloing. The Scoundrel relies too much on stealth and I find it impossible to solo the missions on Voss when I'm 2 lvls higher than the mobs I'm expected to kill.

 

Granted better gear might help but in most missions on Voss I have to activate a device to call upon the final boss and if I attempt to go into stealth it will only stop the quest and I would have to restart it. It's absolutely critical to begin the fight in stealth but under those situations it's virtually impossible and outside of stealth a Scoundrel's dps, lack of crowd control, survivability etc is not gonna cut it.

[DunsparrowSolo]

I agree there are area's you are not performing as well as others, but I would never claim "Worst at everything".

 

Oh? What are Scoundrels better at than another class? It has to be something the other class actually does.

 

PvP Melee DPS: We're better than ?

PvP Healer: We're better than ?

 

PvE Melee DPS: Better than ?

PVE Healer: Better than ?

 

Worst. At. Everything.

Edited February 18, 2012 by DunsparrowSolo

[VelnikSP]

there's a difference between 'not being the best at anything' and 'being the worst at everything'

 

and I also noted that you asked questions specifically designed to paint them as the worst. I can do the same.

 

what healer-class is better at PvP ganking?

which healer is better at dealing with overaggro?

which PvE class is better at stealthing objectives?

which stealth class has higher burst?

which burst dps class is perfectly effective at laying on ranged damage if a boss is too dangerous for anyone but the main tank to melee?

who heals the healer?

Edited February 18, 2012 by VelnikSP

[Tetrablade]

there's a difference between 'not being the best at anything' and 'being the worst at everything'

 

and I also noted that you asked questions specifically designed to paint them as the worst. I can do the same.

 

what healer-class is better at PvP ganking?

which healer is better at dealing with overaggro?

which PvE class is better at stealthing objectives?

which stealth class has higher burst?

which burst dps class is perfectly effective at laying on ranged damage if a boss is too dangerous for anyone but the main tank to melee?

who heals the healer?

 

Sage

Sage

Assassin

Assassin

Gunslinger

Sage

 

There, any other questions?

Edited February 18, 2012 by Tetrablade

[VelnikSP]

Sage

Sage

Assassin

Assassin

Gunslinger

Sage

 

There, any other questions?

 

you are apparently playing a different game from me, then.

[Tetrablade]

I get that a lot. Usually from people who are never looking at the bigger picture.

 

You don't need hard facts to see how this stuff plays out. Even the dev team says the the scoundrel sucks in the heal department and are changing it. *points to the q&a post on the main screen* As for dps we will probably have to wait or complain louder in their statistical date (i.e. keep switching classes) before they get the hint. Just like any other mmo.

 

We have no utility, no sustained dps, our heals compliment other healers but on our own are very lacking, our one trick pony dps tree was nerfed, and the ranged class is made into a very awkward melee class overall. Compared as a whole, even to the gunslinger AC, and we are found exceedingly lacking.

 

When was the last time you saw a Scoundrel close a gap to kill a target in less then 3 seconds?

Save the day in huttball by pulling the carrier back?

Knock another player off a walkway?

Run through a deathtrap with hardly a scratch?

Heal an entire 8 man group in one heal?

Consistently stun/slow multiple targets?

Remove force dots on themselves or other players?

 

Point is, yes we can play. But every class out there can do something we can do and do it much easier or better. Usually both.

[antiviolence]

you are apparently playing a different game from me, then.

 

I think every scoundrel/operative, except for those who are trying to convince they're the best in the world, are playing a different game from you.

 

We have no utility, no sustained dps, our heals compliment other healers but on our own are very lacking, our one trick pony dps tree was nerfed, and the ranged class is made into a very awkward melee class overall. Compared as a whole, even to the gunslinger AC, and we are found exceedingly lacking.

 

When was the last time you saw a Scoundrel close a gap to kill a target in less then 3 seconds?

Save the day in huttball by pulling the carrier back?

Knock another player off a walkway?

Run through a deathtrap with hardly a scratch?

Heal an entire 8 man group in one heal?

Consistently stun/slow multiple targets?

Remove force dots on themselves or other players?

 

Point is, yes we can play. But every class out there can do something we can do and do it much easier or better. Usually both.

 

Oh oh! I know the answer on the last question! Scrappers dodge when talented! on a 2(?) min cd?

Sorry I kinda forgot the timing, have yet to log into the game since I got terribly bored of being a second class citizen in a game filled with everyone thats better than me.

[DunsparrowSolo]

what healer-class is better at PvP ganking? Shadow is the only other stealth class, and its way, way better in 1v1 situations. Probably the best class in the game 1v1.

 

which healer is better at dealing with overaggro? Healers don't have aggro problems. What the hell are you talking about?

 

which PvE class is better at stealthing objectives? Shadow is only other stealth class and its better. Shadow's version of Tranquilizer does not give a full resolve bar like ours does (otherwise they are exactly the same) so if the enemy breaks their sap, then can Force Cloak and immediately re-sap to get the objective.

 

which stealth class has higher burst? Shadow has much higher burst and their burst does not rely on stealth.

 

which burst dps class is perfectly effective at laying on ranged damage if a boss is too dangerous for anyone but the main tank to melee? There is no such boss (you obviously know nothing). But if there was: Mercenary, Commando, Gunslinger, Sniper, Sage, Sorceror -- all more effective than us from ranged.

 

who heals the healer? If the healer is a sage or commando, he heals himself, because he's not terrible.

 

Your questions are absurd and demonstrate how little you understand about this game. You didn't answer any of my general questions about PvP and PvE effectiveness because Scoundrels are the worst at everything.

Edited February 19, 2012 by DunsparrowSolo

[Achraya]

there's a difference between 'not being the best at anything' and 'being the worst at everything'

 

and I also noted that you asked questions specifically designed to paint them as the worst. I can do the same.

 

what healer-class is better at PvP ganking?

which healer is better at dealing with overaggro?

which PvE class is better at stealthing objectives?

which stealth class has higher burst?

which burst dps class is perfectly effective at laying on ranged damage if a boss is too dangerous for anyone but the main tank to melee?

who heals the healer?

 

If these are the best things you can come up to explain why this class isn't the worst at all things you should really evaluate the class. You shouldn't have to get so narrow that no other class can possibly fulfill the requirements to prove that your class is good at something.

[flyersfan]

scoundrels: worst damage, worst utility, worst heals, worst tanking, worst stealth, worst mobility, worst story, worst everything.

 

This is the truth, pass it on to your friends.

 

My Gunslinger tank is amazing.

[Auxili]

scoundrels have zero utility, unlike shadows. So just roll a shadow

[Kexin]

there's a difference between 'not being the best at anything' and 'being the worst at everything'

 

and I also noted that you asked questions specifically designed to paint them as the worst. I can do the same.

 

what healer-class is better at PvP ganking?

which healer is better at dealing with overaggro?

which PvE class is better at stealthing objectives?

which stealth class has higher burst?

which burst dps class is perfectly effective at laying on ranged damage if a boss is too dangerous for anyone but the main tank to melee?

who heals the healer?

 

This post is pure garbage. The scound isn't an answer to any of the questions posed.

[VelnikSP]

actually, every one of those situations my operative has dealt with meaningfully. but, excuse me if my post violates your retarded superiority bubble. This whole thread is stupid, and should have been locked on page 1.

[avariambush]

You're confusing 'Not the best at anything' with 'worst at everything.' The two aren't the same.

 

For the most part, I agree that as pure DPS Scoundrels are amongst the weakest classes due to the lack of a range closer (and general melee inadequacies) and energy management issues. Of the three healers we're also probably the worst, although not that much worse than Commandos.

 

We do make some of the strongest Hybrids, however. I think we actually make the best Offhealers due to the awesomeness that is SRMP and its low position in the tree, for example. It's not much but I'm also finding such hybrids are very survivable (typically <5 deaths in a WZ, often <2, unless I'm suicide-defending a node against overwhelming odds (DOT, die, return, DOT, die, return, etc.)

 

I hope they fix our energy management issues (which would improve our sustained damage considerably) and give us a gap closer (in combat sprint, basically) but to say we are the worst at everything just isn't true.

 

I meant to go hybrid from the begining and focused on survivability and I love this class to death. I'm sure it means I will never top any charts and people will frown at me in the top PVE areas, but it should make for a sneakily effective player in group PvP and a superstar in 4 mans and that's exactly what I want.

[Crowleyz]

Scoundrels use 2 different attacks to kill people. Taking down tanks like butter still. Stop whining, l2p.

[Larce_Apollo]

Scoundrels use 2 different attacks to kill people. Taking down tanks like butter still. Stop whining, l2p.

 

A few select can do this still. The ones who know about the mechanics, the gear, the buffs, and the setups.

 

The "general player" in both scoundrel and ops groups do not or don't have the gear or whatever the few pros can do. I'm not trying to call everyone else nubs here, it's just there are a small % of players that still make it seem like the class nerf wasn't enough.

 

The baseline class and say normal gear most have access to do not allow them to "faceroll" or melt people in combat anymore. The nerf did filter out a lot of FOTMers, but it still left the average player who wants to play the class feeling like they were beaten to a pulp with the nerf.

 

The nerf aimed at the general player populace of the class it seems, the people who know what they are doing, have all the gear, buffs, beat the game, etc can take people down almost as easily as before (Instead of 2 seconds it's like 4 now lol)

 

An example of such player is an operative on my server named Coot, this dude face melts republic players (Including me and I am geared) as if the nerf did nothing to him.

 

On closer examination of him he is 100% geared, has all the right consumables, rotations, hot keys, pretty much everything to be pro. He's the 1% on the server though, I pretty much laugh at the other ops I run into and tell them "that tickled" as I am beating them to death on my sawbones.

[Wookiebeast]

What follows is an objective analysis comparing Scoundrel/Operative to counterpart roles. Its difficult to say that the class I was so excited about is now so terrible, but denial isn't helpful to anyone.

 

Before continuing, ask yourself: "What can Scoundrel do better than another class?" The answer is: nothing.

 

My proposed changes to fix the Scrapper problems can be found here.

 

PvP

 

UPDATE: I believe the 1.1.1 nerf was necessary. Scoundrel opener burst damage was too high. However, without that burst we need better sustained damage and survivability. This is what we lack. I don't want the insane burst back, I want to be a balanced, well-rounded class.

 

Damage - Scrapper

"He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious." -Sun Tzu

 

The Scrapper is a stealth-based alpha strike class. The great advantage of stealth is being able to choose your battles. I do not wish to discount this point.

 

However, after the recent nerfs, our opener damage has been significantly lowered due to the damage decrease coupled with armor penetration reduction. We are still able to put out moderate damage and exercise a brief control/stun period, after which our damage plummets and the target is free.

 

As a melee class with no gap-closing ability and low survivability, we are relegated to the periphery of combat. Any amount of focus fire will kill us, regardless of healing.

 

Comparison - Jedi Shadow

 

Like the Scrapper, the Shadow is a stealth-based alpha strike class. The Shadow offers similar opener damage, but much-superior sustained/ongoing damage, with a similar stun period.

 

The Shadow also has greatly-incrased gap-closing ability with Force Speed, and superior survivability with tanking abilities and Force Wave to buy distance.

 

Thus, the Shadow is superior in every way to Scrapper.

 

Healing - Sawbones

"A pint of sweat, saves a gallon of blood." -George S. Patton

 

Sawbones is a hot-based healer with almost no burst-healing and no damage-offset potential on other players. In short, if someone is being focused, we need wind-up time to get Slow-Release Medpack rolling and to cast heals. We have no shields and no strong channeled, reactive or instant cast heal to recover a target from low-health/danger situations. HoTs offer survivability in very small group situations but quickly become useless as damage increases. We also suffer from energy issues in any healing-intensive situations.

 

Sawbones also has no savior or utility abilities. Emergency Medpack, while useful as a stopgap/energy saver can't keep a target alive through significant damage and uses a GCD which prevents bigger heals from being cast. Thus, as with damage, the healing Scoundrel is relegated to small battles in lightly contested areas and is not much use in a pitched battle.

 

Comparison - Sage

 

The Sage is the "perfect" healer. It offers serious burst-healing and damage-offset potential. Through Rejuvenate/Healing Trance a Sage can do heavy healing and they can buy time with Force Armor for their powerful heals to land.

 

For utility and survivability, in addition to Force Armor, a Sage has Force Wave and Force Speed to use as escape methods and talents. A Sage makes the perfect healer for groups and single targets and is difficult to bring down or stop from healing.

 

Jedi Sage is superior in every way to Scoundrel.

 

Comparison - Commando

 

The Commando is not quite as effective as the Sage in some situations but offers other benefits. A Commandos reactive heals allow them to keep themselves or another target up through significant incoming damage. Their AOE 11-point AOE heal is far more effective than our 31-point AOE heal, by increasing all incoming healing on affected targets and reducing their damage taken. Has significant boost to healing crit chance and highly mobile.

 

For utility Commando has the best AOE knockback in the game. For survivability, Commandos armor and healing mobility, combined with damage reduction and reactive healing make them very difficult to kill.

 

Commando is superior in every way to Scoundrel.

 

PvE

 

Damage - Scrapper/Dirty Fighting

"Gentlemen, we are being killed on the beaches. Let us go inland and be killed." -General Norman Cota

 

Scrapper and DF both require melee or near-melee range to deal damage. In Flashpoints and Operations, this puts them in the general category of melee. The problem with both of these trees is the lack of sustained damage on high-health targets. Scoundrels are able to deal moderate damage for a short period of time, but must either scale back their damage or run out of energy. As a result their sustained damage is very low compared to other melee.

 

The Scoundrel has extremely limited AOE damage and is not effective in this area. We also have no raid boost or utility abilities.

 

Comparison - Jedi Sentinel

 

A Sentinel has options for either AOE/burst damage (Focus) or Damage over time (Watchman). A Watchman Sentinel has arguably the best sustained damage in the game, as it does not encounter any serious energy issues.

 

The Sentinel has moderate AOE abilities with Cyclone Slash and Force Sweep, and can boost the raid damage/healing by 15% once per fight.

 

Comparison - Jedi Shadow

 

Like a Sentinel, the Shadow offers superior damage from near-melee range compared to Scoundrel, and like the Sentinel, the Shadow does not encounter serious energy issues. A Shadow's sustained single-target damage is very strong.

 

The Shadow has similarly low AOE damage, but offers superior single target damage, compared to the Scoundrel

 

Healing - Sawbones

"It requires more courage to suffer than to die." -Napoleon Bonaparte

 

A Sawbones healer in PvE suffers from many of the same problems as PvP, however energy management becomes a much greater part of the problem. Scoundrels have solid Heals Per Second on a single target, through the use of Slow-Release Medpac and Underworld Medicine. This makes them ideal tank healers.

 

Scoundrels lack the capacity to heal groups, due to energy starvation concerns, HoT maintenance, and the weakness of Kolto Cloud.

 

Comparison - Jedi Sage

 

A Sage healer in PvE is amazing. With powerful single-target heals, shields and channeled abilities, a sage can heal a tank just as well as a Scoundrel, if not better, due to being able to grant armor boosts to its heal targets.

 

However, Sages truly shine in their AOE healing. With Salvation and Force Armor, a Sage can save hurt party members and rapidly heal the group as a whole.

 

A Sage completely overshadows Scoundrel in every way.

 

Comparison - Commando

 

A Commando is a great complement to any other healer because of its unique healing style. With its reactive heals and good mobility, a Commando can help a great deal with tank healing, though is not ideally suited to doing this job a lone.

 

As an AOE healer, a Commando is again a great complement to another healer, with their Kolto Bomb offering damage reduction and increased healing. Reactive abilities and mobile-healing also aid with this.

 

In a group situation, a Commando is not quite as good at tank healing as a Scoundrel unless there is AOE/group healing that needs to be done as well. Again, the utility of the Commando puts it way ahead.

 

Summary

 

PvP DPS - Scoundrel is worse than Shadow and offers the least sustained damage of any class, with only moderate burst. Scoundrel is the worst PvP DPS class.

 

PvP Healing - Scoundrel is worse than both Commando and Sage, and offers the least survivability and burst-healing of any healer. Scoundrel is the worst PvP Healer.

 

PvE DPS - Scoundrel offers least sustained damage of any melee DPS class and suffers from energy starvation and overall low damage. Scoundrel is the worst melee DPS class.

 

PvE Healing - Scoundrel offers good tank healing, but terrible group/AOE healing. In Flashpoints, a Sage or Commando is preferable, and in raids the best healing setup is Sage/Sage or Sage/Commando. Scoundrel is the worst PvE healer.

 

Boy are you clueless!!

[Wookiebeast]

What follows is an objective analysis comparing Scoundrel/Operative to counterpart roles. Its difficult to say that the class I was so excited about is now so terrible, but denial isn't helpful to anyone.

 

Before continuing, ask yourself: "What can Scoundrel do better than another class?" The answer is: nothing.

 

My proposed changes to fix the Scrapper problems can be found here.

 

PvP

 

UPDATE: I believe the 1.1.1 nerf was necessary. Scoundrel opener burst damage was too high. However, without that burst we need better sustained damage and survivability. This is what we lack. I don't want the insane burst back, I want to be a balanced, well-rounded class.

 

Damage - Scrapper

"He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious." -Sun Tzu

 

The Scrapper is a stealth-based alpha strike class. The great advantage of stealth is being able to choose your battles. I do not wish to discount this point.

 

However, after the recent nerfs, our opener damage has been significantly lowered due to the damage decrease coupled with armor penetration reduction. We are still able to put out moderate damage and exercise a brief control/stun period, after which our damage plummets and the target is free.

 

As a melee class with no gap-closing ability and low survivability, we are relegated to the periphery of combat. Any amount of focus fire will kill us, regardless of healing.

 

Comparison - Jedi Shadow

 

Like the Scrapper, the Shadow is a stealth-based alpha strike class. The Shadow offers similar opener damage, but much-superior sustained/ongoing damage, with a similar stun period.

 

The Shadow also has greatly-incrased gap-closing ability with Force Speed, and superior survivability with tanking abilities and Force Wave to buy distance.

 

Thus, the Shadow is superior in every way to Scrapper.

 

Healing - Sawbones

"A pint of sweat, saves a gallon of blood." -George S. Patton

 

Sawbones is a hot-based healer with almost no burst-healing and no damage-offset potential on other players. In short, if someone is being focused, we need wind-up time to get Slow-Release Medpack rolling and to cast heals. We have no shields and no strong channeled, reactive or instant cast heal to recover a target from low-health/danger situations. HoTs offer survivability in very small group situations but quickly become useless as damage increases. We also suffer from energy issues in any healing-intensive situations.

 

Sawbones also has no savior or utility abilities. Emergency Medpack, while useful as a stopgap/energy saver can't keep a target alive through significant damage and uses a GCD which prevents bigger heals from being cast. Thus, as with damage, the healing Scoundrel is relegated to small battles in lightly contested areas and is not much use in a pitched battle.

 

Comparison - Sage

 

The Sage is the "perfect" healer. It offers serious burst-healing and damage-offset potential. Through Rejuvenate/Healing Trance a Sage can do heavy healing and they can buy time with Force Armor for their powerful heals to land.

 

For utility and survivability, in addition to Force Armor, a Sage has Force Wave and Force Speed to use as escape methods and talents. A Sage makes the perfect healer for groups and single targets and is difficult to bring down or stop from healing.

 

Jedi Sage is superior in every way to Scoundrel.

 

Comparison - Commando

 

The Commando is not quite as effective as the Sage in some situations but offers other benefits. A Commandos reactive heals allow them to keep themselves or another target up through significant incoming damage. Their AOE 11-point AOE heal is far more effective than our 31-point AOE heal, by increasing all incoming healing on affected targets and reducing their damage taken. Has significant boost to healing crit chance and highly mobile.

 

For utility Commando has the best AOE knockback in the game. For survivability, Commandos armor and healing mobility, combined with damage reduction and reactive healing make them very difficult to kill.

 

Commando is superior in every way to Scoundrel.

 

PvE

 

Damage - Scrapper/Dirty Fighting

"Gentlemen, we are being killed on the beaches. Let us go inland and be killed." -General Norman Cota

 

Scrapper and DF both require melee or near-melee range to deal damage. In Flashpoints and Operations, this puts them in the general category of melee. The problem with both of these trees is the lack of sustained damage on high-health targets. Scoundrels are able to deal moderate damage for a short period of time, but must either scale back their damage or run out of energy. As a result their sustained damage is very low compared to other melee.

 

The Scoundrel has extremely limited AOE damage and is not effective in this area. We also have no raid boost or utility abilities.

 

Comparison - Jedi Sentinel

 

A Sentinel has options for either AOE/burst damage (Focus) or Damage over time (Watchman). A Watchman Sentinel has arguably the best sustained damage in the game, as it does not encounter any serious energy issues.

 

The Sentinel has moderate AOE abilities with Cyclone Slash and Force Sweep, and can boost the raid damage/healing by 15% once per fight.

 

Comparison - Jedi Shadow

 

Like a Sentinel, the Shadow offers superior damage from near-melee range compared to Scoundrel, and like the Sentinel, the Shadow does not encounter serious energy issues. A Shadow's sustained single-target damage is very strong.

 

The Shadow has similarly low AOE damage, but offers superior single target damage, compared to the Scoundrel

 

Healing - Sawbones

"It requires more courage to suffer than to die." -Napoleon Bonaparte

 

A Sawbones healer in PvE suffers from many of the same problems as PvP, however energy management becomes a much greater part of the problem. Scoundrels have solid Heals Per Second on a single target, through the use of Slow-Release Medpac and Underworld Medicine. This makes them ideal tank healers.

 

Scoundrels lack the capacity to heal groups, due to energy starvation concerns, HoT maintenance, and the weakness of Kolto Cloud.

 

Comparison - Jedi Sage

 

A Sage healer in PvE is amazing. With powerful single-target heals, shields and channeled abilities, a sage can heal a tank just as well as a Scoundrel, if not better, due to being able to grant armor boosts to its heal targets.

 

However, Sages truly shine in their AOE healing. With Salvation and Force Armor, a Sage can save hurt party members and rapidly heal the group as a whole.

 

A Sage completely overshadows Scoundrel in every way.

 

Comparison - Commando

 

A Commando is a great complement to any other healer because of its unique healing style. With its reactive heals and good mobility, a Commando can help a great deal with tank healing, though is not ideally suited to doing this job a lone.

 

As an AOE healer, a Commando is again a great complement to another healer, with their Kolto Bomb offering damage reduction and increased healing. Reactive abilities and mobile-healing also aid with this.

 

In a group situation, a Commando is not quite as good at tank healing as a Scoundrel unless there is AOE/group healing that needs to be done as well. Again, the utility of the Commando puts it way ahead.

 

Summary

 

PvP DPS - Scoundrel is worse than Shadow and offers the least sustained damage of any class, with only moderate burst. Scoundrel is the worst PvP DPS class.

 

PvP Healing - Scoundrel is worse than both Commando and Sage, and offers the least survivability and burst-healing of any healer. Scoundrel is the worst PvP Healer.

 

PvE DPS - Scoundrel offers least sustained damage of any melee DPS class and suffers from energy starvation and overall low damage. Scoundrel is the worst melee DPS class.

 

PvE Healing - Scoundrel offers good tank healing, but terrible group/AOE healing. In Flashpoints, a Sage or Commando is preferable, and in raids the best healing setup is Sage/Sage or Sage/Commando. Scoundrel is the worst PvE healer.

 

Boy are you clueless!!

[Tetrablade]

Boy are you clueless!!

 

....You copy the ENTIRE post just to say that?

[antiviolence]

....You copy the ENTIRE post just to say that?

 

I think he double posted to prove his point

[Powderhorn]

I have to admit, that's some good trolling.

 

Back on topic: I still enjoy my scoundrel, I put tons of work into him, and I can't see myself wanting to roll another class. But why do I feel that with each successive patch, BioWare looks at the Scoundrel and says, "That class looks like it could use it's face rubbed in the ground some more..."

 

Again, we have no utilities, and that was fine in the beginning. We were a glass cannon, that was our class mission. Now I feel like I'm a glass popgun.

[pinkink]

actually, every one of those situations my operative has dealt with meaningfully. but, excuse me if my post violates your retarded superiority bubble. This whole thread is stupid, and should have been locked on page 1.

 

+10

 

go and roll another "better" class and start crying on "better class" sub forums!!!