Shouldnt there be a big difference in new 50s and BM 50s?

[Knifewrench]

Why people don't want gear to matter in a game where fighting other players is inherently about rock, paper, scissors is beyond me...

 

Maybe this isn't the genre for you.

 

QFT. It's just peeling an onion of complaints. If it's not gear that people are scapegoating, it'll be class imbalance... then exploiting... then lag.

[iceperson]

Just trying to figure out how bad a player has to be to feel they need 10 levels worth of stats more than their competition in order to win. I imagine those are the same kinds of people who fake a disability in order to "compete" in the special olympics.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-08-29/cheating-threatens-joyful-paralympics/493322

 

For the record, no one at BW ever said they were taking away anything someone "earned".

 

Oh, and for those people who are implying MMOs aren't the place for people who don't like the big gear discrepancy right now, I have one thing to say, if you don't like games where balance changes are constantly being made by the devs then perhaps you're the one who shouldn't be playing an MMO...

[PicthShemet]

It's an easy fix: make all PvP gear equal.

 

While they are at it, they should make all PvE gear equal as well. If you are a new lvl 50 it's really unfair that you will immediately die in Nightmare Mode Operations. Having big differences between tionese and rakata just means that doing operations is more about gear and less about skill.

 

I can't believe people really think like this...

[iceperson]

It's an easy fix: make all PvP gear equal.

 

While they are at it, they should make all PvE gear equal as well. If you are a new lvl 50 it's really unfair that you will immediately die in Nightmare Mode Operations. Having big differences between tionese and rakata just means that doing operations is more about gear and less about skill.

 

I can't believe people really think like this...

 

Someone didn't mind the mixed level warzones so much. Let me guess, you were upset that lower level players were bolstered too right?

 

OMG I earned these extra levels!@#!$!#%$@%^

[PicthShemet]

Someone didn't mind the mixed level warzones so much. Let me guess, you were upset that lower level players were bolstered too right?

 

OMG I earned these extra levels!@#!$!#%$@%^

 

No I didn't mind the bolster mechanic at all. The bolstering system is completely fine because people that are a higher level have more abilities. But what's even the point of having different levels/abilities/gear if you make them all equal at endgame? What's the point of having different levels of things at ANY point?

[mksaccount]

If you are a new lvl 50 it's really unfair that you will immediately die in Nightmare Mode Operations.

 

More like you hit 50 and the normal mode is grayed out.

[Kheldor]

Disparity in gear is the reason pvp in mmo's is so terrible.

 

You play an RTS, racing game, fighting game, FPS etc and a persons skill actually matters.

 

In mmo's it's all about who ever has the most epics. If BioWare intends to try and change that then I say good on them and it can't come sooner.

 

This ^^

 

Make the pvp gear flashy and unique looking with good stats, but nothing over the top stupid. (Completely scrap all Marauder gear too while you're at it BW, it's ugly as sin, all sets exactly the same with different bad textures, then remake it...but I digress)

 

It would be FAR better to have a system similar to Dark Age of Camelot where you earned Realm Points and purchased skills, buffs and abilities for the CHARACTER, not the gear. Then those that were skilled and pvp'd a long time would have their advantage that they want without it being tied to gear at all. However, a really skilled RR4 could take on a RR7 and have a shot, based on skill...not gear.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Kheldor

[Chiisaikage]

1. Guild Wars was the MOST balanced PvP experience...PERIOD. Their attention to balance was CONSTANT and meticulous. If one thing got out of whack...they addressed it.

 

2. ANY TIME you allow a person to progress faster and as a REWARD allow them access to better gear and better skills you will have an imbalance. That's WHY they use brackets.

 

3. I am all for going EVEN FURTHER in order to make this game's PvP more like Guild Wars PvP. Make brackets that take into consideration Itemization 'weight'. Meaning if your gear falls into 'this' class-weight (like boxing) you PvP over here...and if your gear falls into THIS class-weight....you PvP over HERE....and so on. THAT WAY you are fighting 'competitively' and at that level, then TRUE player skill will shine forth and prevail. THIS was the guild Wars way of PvP. Skill & Team-work = KING

 

4. If you disagree, there is more than a 75% chance you just like to gank people and really aren't interested in a challenge.

 

 

/Nuff_said

[Dray]

"Shouldnt there be a big difference in new 50s and BM 50s?"

 

./warns audience to prepare for a zinger

 

Not until they make it take more than a few days of valor farming on Ilum to become BM.

 

Stop farming Ilum. Fix Ilum. Fix Ilum. Fix Ilum.....

 

 

FIX

 

ILUM

[vrok-]

You have no idea what you're talking about when you make this statement. It is significantly more "even".

 

The gap between a fresh 50 vs a champ or BM geared 50, is vastly more disparate than the gap between even a level 10 and a level 49 in the 10-49 bracket.

I have a BM geared character. You don't. I also geared a new 50 vs BMs just this past week. I also level my characters through warzones. I'm sorry but it doesn't matter what your opinion is on this because you're just wrong and embarrassing yourself.

 

Nothing comes even close to the imbalance that is 40+ vs 20s and below. Nothing at all. The only thing that possibly makes 10-49 "easier" in peoples minds is that 99% of players don't know how to play and that has exactly nothing to do with balance.

[XDOUBLEX]

I became a 50 while BE could stack all the crap they wanted and the new 50's bracket came out a few days later. I was the 10th or 11th 50 in my guild so I wasn't at the front of it as there were BM's in every WZ I went into.

 

Every match I go into I see people going toe to toe that shouldn't. Run through fire and engage with 3/4 health and still burning, tanks jumping into 3 or 4 enemies with 1/4 health. Sorcs jumping down into the bottom pit with no range or height advantage, Assissins force slowed and getting spammed with lightning just keep walking to the enemy instead of going around the corner to break LOS. The list goes on and on..

 

 

What is going to be the difference with new 50's that go into combat against other 50's who have better PvE gear once the expertise is changed? Is there going to be crying to nerf the PvE gear as well? Of course it's coming.

 

So the only way to end the cycle is for everyone to enter a WZ with the same gear? Come on, that's just not going to happen.

[TheRFC]

The game is extremely unbalanced at this point in time, if you have issues with advantages being taken away from you go to another game....

 

But it's what ANYONE can get is they put the time and effort in. We're doing the grind that many cba to. And for what? A fractional advantage after a couple of days of your opponents being L50 and having some Centurion gear?

 

We don't want a staggering advantage, but to see a difference would be nice. It's about a sense of personal progression in your character. The cap's 50 so we can't get better stats through leveling, but we can through gear.

 

Time in this sense is a resource. Those who love to play golf and play it regularly usually have some pretty nice clubs. Those who enjoy running lots will usually invest in a good pair of trainers. Those who enjoy gaming - perhaps a decent mouse with some buttons. MMOs - gear.

 

If a guy in full BM gear is slightly ahead of me on the scoreboard for DMG then I'll reason - ok, well that's perhaps the gear. If they are well ahead of me then they most likely played that round much better than I. If you're getting really slapped around (general, not you specifically ) then it's probably time to adjust to your character better, look up specc'ing guides, stat guides, put time into the game, learn the quirks of different classes and WZs. It's not hard ... there's only 3

 

But the gear argument is flawed as soon as people get a few pieces of Centurion gear. 6 days at level 50, hit 485K damage, hit 400K regularly, expect to hit 300K every match and expect to top my leaderboards everytime, or be within touching distance of the top the rare occassion I don't top it. This is my first MMORPG. This game is easy. Better scores = mash buttons.

[vrok-]

best case scenerio perhaps...

 

Over 7 hours played tonight to get my daily and I have 1 of 3 wins.

 

I went from 18 Warzone commendations to 970 and still only 1 win - thats alot of Warzone Commendations coming all from loses.

 

Tonight I get 1 Champ bag - after 7 hours of play, I don't think 7 hours a night is considered "casual"

 

So how do you figure 2 weeks to be in Champ gear?

It took my alt one week from hitting 50 last Monday to get 500 expertise from pure PUGing and no grinding for commendations. One week. You're not even trying to get all your bags according to your own story. Recruit for a premade if you're having so much trouble? Get a healer, tank and DPS just like you would for a FP? Join a PvP guild? Do something about it. I really doubt you'd still lose that much with 4/8 players that is actively trying to win and filling important roles. Announcing a strategy and giving people tips to help them not be horrible helps too.

 

You're also ignoring Ilum for some reason, which is a bag. Maybe your server don't have pull wars at the Republic base so everyone can get their kills but you can just get a few players that want it done and kill a few roamers or gather the stuff from central assault between warzones. How you can do it depends on your server and faction but my Ilum daily gets done in less than 20 minutes every day at primetime and there's always an ops group up when I need it.

 

Regardless of the path to 50, this is an MMO. You're supposed to group up with other players to get **** done at endgame.

Edited February 7, 2012 by vrok-

[SammuelSK]

If you have BM gear, and these changes worry you, you really aren't as good as you think you are in PVP.

 

I've got the gear, and I personally couldn't care any less about losing any advantage. Might actually increase the number of players in the level 50 bracket. Deal with it or don't, quit or don't. Its a good change, and allows for them to add more gear down the road.

 

Bunch of freakin whiny babies.

Edited February 7, 2012 by SammuelSK

[TheRFC]

QFT. It's just peeling an onion of complaints. If it's not gear that people are scapegoating, it'll be class imbalance... then exploiting... then lag.

 

Agreed.

 

A SW game should, supposedly, be about an epic duel between the force and the darkside. Jedi v. Sith. But the Knights and Warriors are the worst characters you could pick. There is no silver lining for those guys. It's a suck-fest.

 

There's CC spam all over the place. What is the point of being an Operative or Assassin/Shadow if, when, you do come out of cover you HAVE to kill the guy pretty much else it's game over? You can't even hit stealth again mid-combat because many classes can apply a DoT effect to you, pound you, wait for you to go back into stealth, get damaged by the DoT, reappear and then finish you off.

 

Why anyone would role anything but a Sage or Sorc for Jedi or Sith is beyond me.

 

Instead of it being the gear, people should be asking for a buff to their classes' DMG if they're putting out uninspiring numbers.

 

There are also a lot of OP choices with some ACs having a dual function (DPS+Healing, etc) when some are stuck with just damage. Why any class can put up some of the scores I've seen, 300+K DMG and 300+K healing too?? Why wouldn't you be one of those classes compared to one of the DPS-only who may struggle to put up the 300+K considering they are specc'd to do solely damage?

[Descends]

step 1.... go pvp naked... wont do so well vs anyone will you?

 

step 2.... work your butt off for battlemaster and then have it be useless for pve and pvp.... because they nerf it suddenly.....wont want to play anymore will you?

 

step 3.... dont work at all and go in and have a hard time killing a battlemaster and demand change that makes it easy for you to do what you want... you will like to play more...

 

step 4... go over the statistics of hardcore pvpers vs casual pvpers and how much money I make appeasing which crowd? casual gamers win..

 

step 5... look a year into the future when you tried to make more money early on and then suddenly everyone got bored because of a lack of progressive power increase in pvp...which they stopped doing because there is only 3 maps and 2 world locations that are the most boring zones in the game...and the pve is so easy everyone cleared the hardest bosses months ago...and there is no point in playing....and youll see that you actually lost money...

 

step 6... play guild wars 2 instead because bioware cant make proper decisions.

[vrok-]

Agreed.

 

A SW game should, supposedly, be about an epic duel between the force and the darkside. Jedi v. Sith. But the Knights and Warriors are the worst characters you could pick. There is no silver lining for those guys. It's a suck-fest.

 

There's CC spam all over the place. What is the point of being an Operative or Assassin/Shadow if, when, you do come out of cover you HAVE to kill the guy pretty much else it's game over? You can't even hit stealth again mid-combat because many classes can apply a DoT effect to you, pound you, wait for you to go back into stealth, get damaged by the DoT, reappear and then finish you off.

 

Why anyone would role anything but a Sage or Sorc for Jedi or Sith is beyond me.

 

Instead of it being the gear, people should be asking for a buff to their classes' DMG if they're putting out uninspiring numbers.

 

There are also a lot of OP choices with some ACs having a dual function (DPS+Healing, etc) when some are stuck with just damage. Why any class can put up some of the scores I've seen, 300+K DMG and 300+K healing too?? Why wouldn't you be one of those classes compared to one of the DPS-only who may struggle to put up the 300+K considering they are specc'd to do solely damage?

You post agreed and then you demonstrate that you're exactly the problem he's talking about. Bad and whiny player that needs a reality check and a healthy dose of L2P. If you think warriors and knights need tons of help balance wise, you're clueless. Go post somewhere else. You're not helping.

Edited February 7, 2012 by vrok-

[babiegirlla]

the point of PvP and gearing should be to, sometimes feel stronger and have better gear that was worked for, over others.

 

some people think they should just hit 50 and have full champion gear and compete with people who grinded and dealt with a system that you don`t want to do, you just want to have gear thrown at you easily.

 

There should be a bigger difference in PvP and PvE gear, that`s for sure, and arguing someone got lucky and you`re still better than them you just have crappy gear is irrelevent when there are a LOT of people in great gear that will drop you easily as well.

 

I can`t tell you as a Sent how many times a sorcs first idea is to knock me back after I charge them, but so few will fight me and kill or give me a challenge. I`ve had BHs fake my interrupts, because they know I`ll go after a Tracer. That`s skill, experience and knowledge, something there is a major lack of, and some random poster acting like they should equally fight someone like that who worked for their gear and has skill to back them up, is stupid. Work for it like we all did, it`s getting much easier in the next patch.

[TheRFC]

If you have BM gear, and these changes worry you, you really aren't as good as you think you are in PVP.

 

I've got the gear, and I personally couldn't care any less about losing any advantage. Might actually increase the number of players in the level 50 bracket. Deal with it or don't, quit or don't. Its a good change, and allows for them to add more gear down the road.

 

Bunch of freakin whiny babies.

 

But it doesn't at all, because people will be whining about future gear. If you're a fresh L50 then you should expect to get slapped around a little. But it doesn't that THAT long to get gear.

 

Like I've stated repeatedly, have 1000WZ Coms and 1000Merc Coms ready for when you hit L50, that's 5 bags off the bat.

 

And, again, where is the incentive to continue playing if the gear doesn't give you any kind of improvement whatsoever? The WZs are boring as hell. There's no recognition or anything for doing well. The other day I put up nearly 500K Dmg, got 13 Medals and didn't even get an MvP vote despite leading in the damage by over 100K and the medals by 5 I took a pic on my phone because I'm a massive geek to show my mate, but that's it. Big whoop, thanks for playing the game, get back to grinding.

 

And there's an even bigger difference if you're in the mid-40s to playing with level 10s or something. That should be insta-kill Mode engaged. No one is bothered about that staggering difference suggesting a 10-25 bracket then a 25-50 one. Why? Because they have no problem slapping around newbie players. When the tables are turned for a few days suddenly the whole L50 bracket needs changing.

[TheRFC]

You post agreed and then you demonstrate that you're exactly the problem he's talking about. Bad and whiny player that needs a reality check and a healthy dose of L2P. If you think warriors and knights need tons of help balance wise, you're clueless. Go post somewhere else. You're not helping.

 

I'm sorry but Knights and Warriors are worthless in PvP right now, and I'm not one so it's not as if I'm asking for a buff for my own character.

[Dreedzik]

Yeah.. i love ppl who whant to get all just after reach max lvl ...

 

And YES Difrence is OK its normal that someone spend days and night to get valor lvl and compleate dailys/weeklys to get full SET. Why someone who reach 50 should have easier way to get set and valor. ITS RPG if someone start play after some player, play slow etc they need to spend same time to get gear not just reach 50 and say @$% pvp gear for what it's when i get PVE gear and i will be better than all this noob pvp players who spend months to get gear.

[TheRFC]

step 1.... go pvp naked... wont do so well vs anyone will you?

 

step 2.... work your butt off for battlemaster and then have it be useless for pve and pvp.... because they nerf it suddenly.....wont want to play anymore will you?

 

step 3.... dont work at all and go in and have a hard time killing a battlemaster and demand change that makes it easy for you to do what you want... you will like to play more...

 

step 4... go over the statistics of hardcore pvpers vs casual pvpers and how much money I make appeasing which crowd? casual gamers win..

 

step 5... look a year into the future when you tried to make more money early on and then suddenly everyone got bored because of a lack of progressive power increase in pvp...which they stopped doing because there is only 3 maps and 2 world locations that are the most boring zones in the game...and the pve is so easy everyone cleared the hardest bosses months ago...and there is no point in playing....and youll see that you actually lost money...

 

step 6... play guild wars 2 instead because bioware cant make proper decisions.

 

 

Agreed.

 

When I hit L50 I was around 39rank Valor. The grind doesn't seem so bad 40-50. 50+ it's an unholy abomination. Getting to L60V is skant incentive enough just for some *slightly* better PvP gear. I cba to even do my Dailies anymore because I usually get some crappy Centurion credits (crappy because I've got all the Cen-gear I want) and if I get anything in a bag it'll either be a duplicate (of which I've already stripped useful Mods) or a duplicate of something I can't even use for my AC like an off-hand blaster - for Mercs not for PTs!! I've had 3 of these. So I think maybe they sell for something nice? 1,321credits. Worthless.

 

Nerf the BM gear and watch everyone leave.

 

It's playing smart and planning ahead. I wanted to be a high-ish level Valor when I hit 50. I see some guys hit 50 at like L14 or 15V and whine. Yes Huttball is tedious, Alderan has lost its shine, VS is a poorly designed WZ but those who've hit a high level Valor without exploiting have had to grind through those godless maps hundreds of times.

 

Most BMs don't bother playing anymore apart from to get their Dailies done because there's so little to do and Centurion gear is already easy to get and is about to get even easier. Stop crying and put the hours in or go and play COD where they remove all skill to the absolute extreme.

[TheRFC]

Yeah.. i love ppl who whant to get all just after reach max lvl ...

 

And YES Difrence is OK its normal that someone spend days and night to get valor lvl and compleate dailys/weeklys to get full SET. Why someone who reach 50 should have easier way to get set and valor. ITS RPG if someone start play after some player, play slow etc they need to spend same time to get gear not just reach 50 and say @$% pvp gear for what it's when i get PVE gear and i will be better than all this noob pvp players who spend months to get gear.

 

Agree.

 

I think people should get out the mentality that L50 is max level. Your char's level is of secondary importance. It's all about Valor for PvP, that is your primary concern. L60 Valor should take you much longer to get that L50 for your character and it's not a particularly nice grind due to the lack of WZ variety and worthless World-PvP options.

 

So many come into the L50 bracket expecting to wreck house like they've been doing against L10s previously who've no CCs, rubbish gear, no decent talents and move at paint-drying-pace. The jump up to L50 is not as bad as being a fresh-faced L10, nothing like.

 

The difference there IS staggering. You've no crit bonuses, no surge, armour that reduces next to no damage, you hit for nothing. No mid-L40s see a L10 on the opposite team and think 'you know what, I'm going to let them off - they're probably having a rough time as it is. In fact, after this I'm going to go and log onto the forums and fight for their cause so that they get a different bracket because this just isn't fair.' No, nope, nada. You like them up and hit them like a truck for a cheap kill.

 

I'd like to see more ways for people to accumulate the requisite resources they need to get PvP gear and Valor, I think everyone would love that variety. But to cheapen what is really not a staggering difference between Centurion and BM gear is to lose all incentive to continue playing if you're a PvPer and have hit the same 3 WZs hundreds of times.

 

It's the difference between 'I want what they guy/girl has, ergo I'm going to graft for it' or 'I don't have what they have, they shouldn't have it either'. If someone outscores me in WZ I don't send them a snidey message saying 'well yeah, try that without your gear n00b'. I send a message saying well played, awesome score or w/e.

 

If there wasn't a L50 bracket then YES, point taken. I played as a low-level char when there wasn't and that was pretty ridiculous. But there's far more difference L49-10 than L50geared to not geared. And to close the former gap may take weeks compared to the latter of days at most if you can be bothered.

[Xerain]

So you want a more uneven playing field in which skill is less relevant?

 

So you want to be able to hit level 50 and be able to down nightmare modes too?

 

 

Some of us put time into getting the gear to pvp against these people who already had the gear and we took our beating and didn't cry about it.

 

Also i'm rolling a new character and i know that i'm going to get stomped on in pvp for a bit and i'm 100% ok with that.

[GyroGate]

Just gonna leave this here.

 

Fair concerns... but nobody said anything about nerfs for PvP gear just yet.

 

There are many ways of achieving our intended goal, from stabilizing early gear acquisition through diminishing/removal of the random factor to the introduction of new gear over time... and a dozen other methods in-between.

 

To spell it out: We currently have no intention to modify the stats on existing PvP gear downwards (which I assume you mean by 'nerf'). Nobody has talked about eliminating the gap between old level 50s and new level 50s either.

 

-- Georg