Shouldnt there be a big difference in new 50s and BM 50s?

[asilos]

Killing is a big part of any objective game actually. If nobody can kill on your team while someone can kill on the opposing team its vastly harder for your squad to win.

 

 

In a game like Alderaan me and my group usually have 3 people just devoted to killing/healing, while we have one running around to capture points. Simply because they can't stop us from capturing the points if they're dead. I get what you're saying though.

 

This is a fine point. Being stuck in the spawn sucks. Gear can only delay that so much though. If anything is delaying it it's Expertise and a great team. Expertise is a highly debatable topic and could easily be added in small quantities to purchasable pvp gear for fresh 50's.

 

Its mostly comes down to your composition of players, and what you have them do at any point of a match, like you're saying... Which actually does have a lot to do with skill, not sure why people think you can auto win after a certain gearing point.

[Seriasx]

PVPer's don't need any other incentive to PVP other then killing other players. PVP gear grind is just another ploy to lengthen subscriptions. No one really wants to do this but you've already been operant-conditioned by previous MMOs.

 

exactly, NO pvper needs gear to pvp, its counter-productive to what should be a baseline of gear to everyone.

 

The buttons I choose to use, the order I use it in, the abilities I'm about to use yet ready to changeup on a seconds notice while at the same time having to know what my current opponent is about to use on me while his ally "off to my left" is healing his ally that is currently attacking my teammate who is behind me in a scrum are all the factors that one should be able to pay attention to which SHOULD lead to winning the fight for the team that better controlled their surroundings

 

Gear you get from a bag then equipt should not be what allows you to win in pvp, its the dumbest and most unfullfilling pvp sytem one can make.

 

Oh gee I out gear you and I win regardless of the fact that I just outplayed you, I could pretty much just peck 1 through 5 and still beat you because of gear, its a joke that no pvper would ever enjoy.

[swtornordrake]

people with time win at pvp. more unemployed and lazy time you have = win at pvp.

 

This is correct more you train more skilled you become.

[TheRFC]

So there is no difference between using an ability that does 500-700 listed dmg on a 6s cooldown vs. using a 800-11000 dmg ability on an 18s cooldown?

 

How about knowing what your opponent just casted does once its casted?

 

How about knowing whats happening around you outside of your hotbar or the opponent your currently facing?

 

All of these should be what seperates good from bad, not what gear you got from a bag and then right clicked to attune.

 

I wouldn't consider any of that skill, though. That's more like common sense and experience. Unless you've played each character to L50 then the only way you're going to find out what their abilities looks does is by having them done to you

 

For instance, I expect my railshot to crit for around 3.5-4K damage. If it crits for much less I'm thinking that that player probably has guard on them ... so I select another target to try and find the tank. That's not skill, it's experience.

 

Marauders (need one hell of a buff, anyways) are pretty easy to take out. However, they have an ability that reduces all damage taken by 99% for a brief period. A few times this has caught me out and they've come back to whoop me. So if I go against one I save up a CC for when they engage that ability to 'put them on ice' for a few seconds until it wears off. Again, that's experience not skill.

 

Sorcs are super frustrating when they engage their lightning which has a 50% slow effect and they can spam it. At a distance they're brutal. Up close they're weak and puny. So I need to close the gap, they don't like me being up in their grill. Once I have then I can apply my DoT affect which slows them down and gives (should at least) me my railshot. They're going to hit an ability to push me away, I've got my rail shot. I win.

 

Any ranged DPS class usually has a knock back ability. If I get close to them I'm expecting them to use it, so I make sure I'm not about to get launched into an acid pit or off a ledge, I make sure I have something behind me that'll mitigate the distance I get thrown back. Experience, not skill.

 

A couple of speeders on Alderan go directly to the side turrets = get the sides, ignore the middle. Ex, not skill.

 

The list could go on exhaustively. I'm only in the low 300s for expertise and play with people with full BM gear etc and it's unusual to get tossed like a salad in a 1v1. Occassionally but rarely, and these guys have twice, if not more the expertise I have. I just roll the PowerTech and spec'd him to be very strong close range and play it well (I'd like to think). If people play to their strengths then they really shouldn't have a problem at least after picking up a few pieces of Centurion gear and this should take a couple of days absolute tops.

[Jeopardydd]

no, there should not be a big difference.

[Seriasx]

I wouldn't consider any of that skill, though. That's more like common sense and experience. Unless you've played each character to L50 then the only way you're going to find out what their abilities looks does is by having them done to you

 

For instance, I expect my railshot to crit for around 3.5-4K damage. If it crits for much less I'm thinking that that player probably has guard on them ... so I select another target to try and find the tank. That's not skill, it's experience.

 

Marauders (need one hell of a buff, anyways) are pretty easy to take out. However, they have an ability that reduces all damage taken by 99% for a brief period. A few times this has caught me out and they've come back to whoop me. So if I go against one I save up a CC for when they engage that ability to 'put them on ice' for a few seconds until it wears off. Again, that's experience not skill.

 

Sorcs are super frustrating when they engage their lightning which has a 50% slow effect and they can spam it. At a distance they're brutal. Up close they're weak and puny. So I need to close the gap, they don't like me being up in their grill. Once I have then I can apply my DoT affect which slows them down and gives (should at least) me my railshot. They're going to hit an ability to push me away, I've got my rail shot. I win.

 

Any ranged DPS class usually has a knock back ability. If I get close to them I'm expecting them to use it, so I make sure I'm not about to get launched into an acid pit or off a ledge, I make sure I have something behind me that'll mitigate the distance I get thrown back. Experience, not skill.

 

A couple of speeders on Alderan go directly to the side turrets = get the sides, ignore the middle. Ex, not skill.

 

The list could go on exhaustively. I'm only in the low 300s for expertise and play with people with full BM gear etc and it's unusual to get tossed like a salad in a 1v1. Occassionally but rarely, and these guys have twice, if not more the expertise I have. I just roll the PowerTech and spec'd him to be very strong close range and play it well (I'd like to think). If people play to their strengths then they really shouldn't have a problem at least after picking up a few pieces of Centurion gear and this should take a couple of days absolute tops.

 

Then dont call it skill, call it whatever you want.

 

But that should be what seperates players, not gear you got from a bag then equipt to magically be better then you were 20 minutes ago.

[VandredTOR]

People who want to have a huge advantage because of gear are not PvPers.

 

People who want completely even gear/stats, think they are PvPers, but really aren't.

 

Gear should play a role, but a smaller one than what it does now. I want the guy who rank whatever and has some gear to have a little advantage...because when I beat him, he knows I outplayed him.

 

My favorite thing right now is when I solo kill people who are 45+ in 10-49 bracket. I'm 35now, but have been doing that since probably 25. That 45+ has a clear advantage in skills and skillpoints, but he knows he just got beat by someone better than him.

 

In the 50 bracket, this gap is too big...I know this because I have a 50 jugg that is 500+ expertise. It needs to be more like it is in the 10-49 bracket.

[TheRFC]

You never deserve to be able to beat players who are better than you. Skill should have the most bearing in well-designed pvp. Real pvpers play the game to get better by actually LEARNING how to play their class & how to counter others. The gear is just icing. Pvp should not be about facerolling an allotted number of hours to then be "elite" simply because you are equipped with the best gear.http://www.olganon.org/

 

I agree with your opinion about it should be the 'icing' and the real part should be learning your character better. I don't feel that there's such a staggering difference between L50 PvP gear.

 

A new L50 player with no gear compared to a Centurion would suck, but if they haven't saved up 1000 WZ coms and 1000 Merc coms for hitting L50 then that's stupid in itself. Should take a couple of days to get mostly Centurion gear and maybe some Champion gear and the gap is reduced staggeringly.

 

I think many people have just hit L50, gotten spanked and cry about it. The first day of 50 for me was relatively frustrating, day 2 not so much, day 3 fine, I'm on day 6 now and I want to be topping the damage charts each game. Highest score is 485K which hit today, low 300s expertise.

 

People make it seem like months of hard, gruelling grind. It isn't, AT ALL.

[Cormaq]

Tbh, All of my friends and I who are primarily pvp players all have the same opinion on this.

 

PvP isnt about the gear, its about the PvP. You simply adapt to make the most of your class when changes are made.

 

Its kinda obvious that if you're a new 50 and un-geared that you aren't going to fare well against geared pvpers who have put time in on that character, but that doesn't mean you are useless forever, the gearing up in TOR is extreamly fast for pvp, and you can even do it without any pvp at all if you're willing to wait a while just doing the ilum dailys/weeklys in the morning when its dead.

 

People need to stop complaining, if you find yourself not viable in pvp as a new 50, bare with it, have fun instead of QQing and you'll be beating sticks with the best of them in a week or 2.

 

I can't beleive the sheer amount of crying and moaning on the forums about it all, there is none of this Ilum fight clubbing and stuff on my server (Frostclaw), the community is fair and friendly on both sides and ive seen no griefing at all. People should consider re-rolling on other servers if their ones are full of lame ppl wanting insta everything without working for it.

[Venganzas]

I don't mean to state the obvious, but if PvP gear gets nerfed, everyone is going to rock around in rakata gear and then the QQ threads will change to:

 

"Why should I have to raid to be competitive in PvP"

 

This is an MMO people, go play counter strike or League of Legends if you want player vs player action with no gear requirements.

[TheRFC]

In the 50 bracket, this gap is too big...I know this because I have a 50 jugg that is 500+ expertise. It needs to be more like it is in the 10-49 bracket.

 

But a Jugg would say that. I'm not trying to be vindictive, but the Knights and Warriors are the worst classes in the game by MILES. They need a damage buff, stat. From a jugg perspective, of course it would suck. If either jumps me it's like a free kill, currently. Desperately, desperately need buffing.

[TheRFC]

Tbh, All of my friends and I who are primarily pvp players all have the same opinion on this.

 

PvP isnt about the gear, its about the PvP. You simply adapt to make the most of your class when changes are made.

 

Its kinda obvious that if you're a new 50 and un-geared that you aren't going to fare well against geared pvpers who have put time in on that character, but that doesn't mean you are useless forever, the gearing up in TOR is extreamly fast for pvp, and you can even do it without any pvp at all if you're willing to wait a while just doing the ilum dailys/weeklys in the morning when its dead.

 

People need to stop complaining, if you find yourself not viable in pvp as a new 50, bare with it, have fun instead of QQing and you'll be beating sticks with the best of them in a week or 2.

 

I can't beleive the sheer amount of crying and moaning on the forums about it all, there is none of this Ilum fight clubbing and stuff on my server (Frostclaw), the community is fair and friendly on both sides and ive seen no griefing at all. People should consider re-rolling on other servers if their ones are full of lame ppl wanting insta everything without working for it.

 

I agree with this. A week and you should be absolutely golden.

 

And if you get pushed around a bit in PvP at first, does it matter? You're going to get at least some valor and some commendations out of WZs. It all adds up.

 

And what people don't seem to appreciate is that if you take the gear element (which is only meaningful if you're a naked L50 newbie) then WZs would be empty because the current game-modes are boring as F-.

 

[Brimmer]

As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

 

Been playing this game from release (5 days early) so I am almost valor 67 now. If someone started tomorrow, and in 2 weeks made it to lvl 50 they SHOULD have a good enough chance as anyone against me; besides maybe being a better player. I shouldn't be able to get huge crits just because I play more often. I think really I just need to get better at the game play mechanics the game uses so I can make for a better fight vs my foes.

 

I hope you're taking a LONG look at this Bioware, expertise is trash; toss in the bin already

 

Fixed

[Chrishowee]

All the kids crying about the gear gap, dont want to work fot ANYTHING I have morr that 10 days played with 55 valot and I have opened probably 100 bags and I dont even have full champ till have a pve saber and chestpiece, should ALL my time be wasted by a pvp gear nerf? Also you can get 200 expertise with mods before u even hit 50 and that is a BIG HELP, if they do anything they should have a set easily obtainable under centurion with 25 expertise built in per piece, oh wait? There already giving 15 cent comms per champ bag in 1.2 so centurion gear will take no time at all to get..if they nerf the gear ALL THE SERIOUS PVPERS WILL LEAVE BECAUSE THE GEAR IS THE ONLY REASON FOR THE GRIND, NO ARENA , NO RANKS, SWTOR PVP WILL BE POINTLESS AND FAIL WORSE THAN ILUM, KEEP LETTING THESE QQS COMPLAIN ON THE FORUMS AND RUIN THE GAME, SINCE BIOWARE OBVIOUSLY CARES MORE ABOUT THERE CASUALS THAN THE SERIOUS WHO WORK FOR STUFF AND HAVE SKILL, SAD 2 SAY IF THEY DO THIS THE GAME WILL SLOWLY DECREAUSE UNTIL ITS RIFT STATUS

[Tempsticks]

As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

 

Been playing this game from release (5 days early) so I am almost valor 67 now. If someone started tomorrow and in 2 weeks made it to lvl 50 why should they have a CHANCE in hell against me besides maybe being a better player? I should be able to get huge crits and get hit for crap from him shouldnt I? He should need to work for his gear alittle bit IMO.

 

HOw much of a nerf are we talking when it comes to PVP gear. Should I just go to PVE full time? Is that gear going to be better for me now?

 

The same thing happed to Rift they nerfed PVP gear and how hard skills hit in PVP and the game died 3 weeks later.

 

I hope your taking a LONG look at this Bioware our on thin ICE.

 

 

Buff Juggs

 

If someone's better than you, you should lose. Sorry =(

[Chrishowee]

On my phone btw, sorry about the spelling but raging on a touch screen is hard;)

[Irishbrewed]

As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

 

Been playing this game from release (5 days early) so I am almost valor 67 now. If someone started tomorrow and in 2 weeks made it to lvl 50 why should they have a CHANCE in hell against me besides maybe being a better player? I should be able to get huge crits and get hit for crap from him shouldnt I? He should need to work for his gear alittle bit IMO.

 

HOw much of a nerf are we talking when it comes to PVP gear. Should I just go to PVE full time? Is that gear going to be better for me now?

 

The same thing happed to Rift they nerfed PVP gear and how hard skills hit in PVP and the game died 3 weeks later.

 

I hope your taking a LONG look at this Bioware our on thin ICE.

 

 

Buff Juggs

 

Sometimes I wonder if the scrubs raced to 50 to get there gear and simply pwn because of that gear, no skill needed. Wait after writing that and reading this, I am sure this is what happened...

 

No man, even the field don't let gear carry you.

[Brimmer]

All the kids crying about the gear gap, dont want to work fot ANYTHING I have morr that 10 days played with 55 valot and I have opened probably 100 bags and I dont even have full champ till have a pve saber and chestpiece, should ALL my time be wasted by a pvp gear nerf? Also you can get 200 expertise with mods before u even hit 50 and that is a BIG HELP, if they do anything they should have a set easily obtainable under centurion with 25 expertise built in per piece, oh wait? There already giving 15 cent comms per champ bag in 1.2 so centurion gear will take no time at all to get..if they nerf the gear ALL THE SERIOUS PVPERS WILL LEAVE BECAUSE THE GEAR IS THE ONLY REASON FOR THE GRIND, NO ARENA , NO RANKS, SWTOR PVP WILL BE POINTLESS AND FAIL WORSE THAN ILUM, KEEP LETTING THESE QQS COMPLAIN ON THE FORUMS AND RUIN THE GAME, SINCE BIOWARE OBVIOUSLY CARES MORE ABOUT THERE CASUALS THAN THE SERIOUS WHO WORK FOR STUFF AND HAVE SKILL, SAD 2 SAY IF THEY DO THIS THE GAME WILL SLOWLY DECREAUSE UNTIL ITS RIFT STATUS

 

Bye bye wall of text user, try a new game.

[shon_tsu]

Gear should give you a minor advantage, not a major advantage.

[Tempsticks]

All the kids crying about the gear gap, dont want to work fot ANYTHING I have morr that 10 days played with 55 valot and I have opened probably 100 bags and I dont even have full champ till have a pve saber and chestpiece, should ALL my time be wasted by a pvp gear nerf? Also you can get 200 expertise with mods before u even hit 50 and that is a BIG HELP, if they do anything they should have a set easily obtainable under centurion with 25 expertise built in per piece, oh wait? There already giving 15 cent comms per champ bag in 1.2 so centurion gear will take no time at all to get..if they nerf the gear ALL THE SERIOUS PVPERS WILL LEAVE BECAUSE THE GEAR IS THE ONLY REASON FOR THE GRIND, NO ARENA , NO RANKS, SWTOR PVP WILL BE POINTLESS AND FAIL WORSE THAN ILUM, KEEP LETTING THESE QQS COMPLAIN ON THE FORUMS AND RUIN THE GAME, SINCE BIOWARE OBVIOUSLY CARES MORE ABOUT THERE CASUALS THAN THE SERIOUS WHO WORK FOR STUFF AND HAVE SKILL, SAD 2 SAY IF THEY DO THIS THE GAME WILL SLOWLY DECREAUSE UNTIL ITS RIFT STATUS

 

If the top pvpers are more skilled than everyone else, they'd have nothing to worry about from this. Implement a ranking system with rating, sure. I'd like to see a rank latter with full normalized gear, I bet rank 10's would beat a lot of the bm's that i see now.

[Brimmer]

Sometimes I wonder if the scrubs raced to 50 to get there gear and simply pwn because of that gear, no skill needed. Wait after writing that and reading this, I am sure this is what happened...

 

No man, even the field don't let gear carry you.

 

I like how even with the Imperial advantage he has, he still whines about not having an upper hand.

[TheRFC]

What this game really needs is more meaningful PvP.

 

Leaderboards, proper server stats, Rep v Imps win/loss ratios, recognition for the best servers, etc.

 

I think PvP gear should matter some but not a staggering amount, but currently it's the only yardstick they have post L50.

 

More, and more meaningful PvP systems (because Ilum is just a big, fat fail right now). Toss a load of these CCs too because if people want a 'skill' based PvP experience then the CC spamming is the worst kind of equaliser you can have.

 

I want to see how I'm ranking compared to other guys on my server say for DPS or just for my class, etc. I think if that was more the case then people wouldn't care so much about wanting a staggering difference in PvP gear tiers.

[Dronp]

Do u baddies realize that after patch itll take like 2 weeks to get full champ assuming u have worst luck ever? If your using gear as an excuse ur a newb and should probably uninstall anyway cause this is by far the easiest mmo ever to get gear in.

[TheRFC]

Oh, and a proper duel-combative mode too would be awesome :-)

[Squarez]

The catering to casuals knows no bounds, developers, starting in as early as EQ1 when SoE took over and throughout WoW have started this awful trend of *********** over the hardcore players by taking away any sense of accomplishment in putting in time and effort. True skill should be the deciding factor, but if I wanted to play a purely skill based game I would go play a FPS or an RTS. MMOs are about gear, time investment, and skill. I agree 100% with OP that new 50s should not have a chance in hell against someone who is full BM unless the BM is a terribad and the new 50 is really skilled. The way it is now is fine, just fix these RNG bags.