HileyQuiggley Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 So what in mankind are you disputing. There is no OTHER COMBAT STEALH MECHANIC. If you see them stealth they are not in combat mechanically. What is the issue? LmAo.. You've debunked your own argument. How? What are you talking about? There is a penalty in DAoC and a long long long Re-use. Not in this game, just like the fact that this game is not called DAoC and maybe I never agreed with the Vanish in that game either? I had a stealther but I never wasted my points on a 15m re-use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitigated Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) I thought this was a joke at first... So Operatives/Scoundrels have already been nerfed once, and what? You want to nerf them some more? I hate to break it to you, but basically every stealth class in every mmo has some type of "Vanish" ability, do you know why they have it? because they have basically no form of CC built into their classes so they DO get an escape countermeasure. Deal with it Edited February 5, 2012 by mitigated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackrJakz Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I play a Trooper, Assault. Why should you have a get out of jail free card. I dont and I also dont have as much CC. Like I said I hate complaining. Im just mad about it, not calling for a nerf. If it gets to bad ill just roll a stealthy myself. Troopers complaining about stealthers? Did pigs start flying this morning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opapanax Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) You are comparing this game with D&D. This is not D&D and its not WoW either. Its SWTOR and you have no idea whatsoever that anything was based off of D&D. Maybe its similar, but every stealth in all the games are similar in some way. This isnt DAoC either so im not saying mirror that class. You like D&D I get that though. OMG.. LOL you know NOTHING about RPGS or the origin of them.. *Le sigh* These are the reasons we can't get more than WOW clones over and over. I'm not comparing the GAME of SWTOR to the GAME of Dungeons and Dragons. D&D rulesets are widely and pretty much formally accepted as the building blocks of RPG ability design. I really don't know how to put it so you don't troll.. lol Those rulesets have evolved some, but the principles remain. Stealthers are allowed to stealth in combat. THAT is your complaint in your original post. Now you've moved it to biching about the *********** cooldown on it. Who gives a **** how often the game lets you do it. If each game wants to change the cooldown thats fine. The mechanic isn't going anywhere tho. Sorry.. Edited February 5, 2012 by Opapanax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadcatGTs Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Yeah... and I'm sure all the archer/thief classes can run fast as hell, can exit and enter combat as they please. Get rid of Force Run and Stealth and make Assassins and Operatives permanently run at 200% runspeed. There you go. nope, they run just as fast as everyone else, and they have just as much exit stuff as everyone else. There is no "thief" class either, only rouges. They are a warrior, which is a duel sword wielder, a slayer: 2h sword user, and the archer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HileyQuiggley Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 I thought this was a joke at first... So Operatives/Scoundrels have already been nerfed once, and what? You want to nerf them some more? I hate to break it to you, but basically every stealth class in every mmo has some type of "Vanish" ability, do you know why they have it? because they have basically no form of CC built into their classes so they DO get an escape countermeasure. Deal with it No CC in other games? Just as much as a tank in Dark Age. Do these other games have such a quick get out of jail free card or my favorite Cheat Death ability? I doubt it, unless maybe WoW which I dont know of but thats WoW and there is a reason I didnt play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HileyQuiggley Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 OMG.. LOL you know NOTHING about RPGS or the origin of them.. *Le sigh* These are the reasons we can't get more than WOW clones over and over. I'm not comparing the GAME of SWTOR to the GAME of Dungeons and Dragons. D&D rulesets are widely and pretty much formally accepted as the building blocks of RPG ability design. I really don't know how to put it so you don't troll.. lol Those rulesets have evolved some, but the principles remain. I stopped after I read...RAGING D&D FAN OMG LAWLAWL BLEH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitigated Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 No CC in other games? Just as much as a tank in Dark Age. Do these other games have such a quick get out of jail free card or my favorite Cheat Death ability? I doubt it, unless maybe WoW which I dont know of but thats WoW and there is a reason I didnt play it. You do know you are playing SWTOR and not DAOC, correct? If you love DAOC so much (and i love it to) then go back and play it, the servers are still going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HileyQuiggley Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 You do know you are playing SWTOR and not DAOC, correct? If you love DAOC so much (and i love it to) then go back and play it, the servers are still going. Played for 10 years, my time is up. Just pointing out that stealthers in other games have CC. Everyone mentions other games they played and bases statements off those games. Why cant I? D&D that that crazy guy, WoW, Rift, AoC, WAR etc have been mentioned here already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 nope, they run just as fast as everyone else, and they have just as much exit stuff as everyone else. There is no "thief" class either, only rouges. They are a warrior, which is a duel sword wielder, a slayer: 2h sword user, and the archer. Have you played in the Tera beta or something then? Because pretty much every Korean-MMO the archer, rogue, thief types run fast. Lineage 2 a rogue-based character could just completely evade combat if they wanted because they ran at least 50% faster than other classes. The way you dealt with them was to stun them so they couldn't escape which is pretty much the same as SWTOR with stealth. Or do you think Operatives and Assassins should just have 115% runspeed and have no stealth? They'd just be eaten alive at range every time, especially in SWTOR where the majority of people in warzones and Ilum are ranged classes. And that basically summarizes this whole thread. "Remove stealth because I'm bad with all the tools that are given to me." I get pulled out of stealth all the time on my Shadow. AoEs are ALL over the place, and on my Vanguard I've never had problems with Operatives. Can see them from 20 feet away in stealth. If they're about to die, I stun them, so they can't vanish away. If they manage to vanish, I stealth scan where they should be and pull them out. If they didn't DoT-wipe beforehand, they get pulled out by my DoTs. It's not hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctourniquet Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 sounds like a terrible player playing terribly. although i will say this, i play a scoundrel. there is nothing better than running around the mid in civil war, picking off bads one by one and stealthing right after. theres half a dozen imps standing around FFing the tank (if theyre super bad) or the heals (if theyre kinda doin it right) IF i can go unnoticed, and IF i can avoid the aoes, and IF my opening target dies, (they have to die to get you out of combat, der) oh god its like shooting big dumb bad fish in a barrel. ill occasionally even swing up the ramp and grab me a free stim to make your life all the more unpleasant. and this is POSTNERF. all it takes to ruin that fun? one freaking dot. (well, maybe 2 dots. because that vanish youre QQing so hard about? i use it to stuff another shoot first right up an imperial rump). get you some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batslav Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 yeah coz in L2 stuns land rate is 100% ^^ also they gave rogues hide so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trujan Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Why should you have a get out of jail free card. Its not a 'get out of jail free card'. Can you honestly tell me, hand on heart, that you have never been able to kill a stealther that used combat stealth on you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HileyQuiggley Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Its not a 'get out of jail free card'. Can you honestly tell me, hand on heart, that you have never been able to kill a stealther that used combat stealth on you? I have, but alot of the times I havent. I posted this mainly from my experience last night in Huttball, hitting one dude almost dead and he vanishes, switch to another because it was a cluster going on, bam he vanishes as well. I try and switch to another that was almost dead and he vanishes before I can even attack. So yeah, it was definately a get out of jail free card for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Summary of this thread: I'm a Mercenary, the best class in the game, but I have trouble with Operatives, who are now mediocre, and Assassins who are arguably the worst class in the game. I have heavy armor, but that doesn't matter. I have two knockbacks, allowing me to use them to knock the stealther off a cliff to instant death, off a ledge to where they can't attack me anymore, or simply 20 meters away, but I have no situational awareness. I have stealth scan, but I can't tell where he vanished to even though he only moved about 10 feet over 1.5 seconds. I can get stealth detection, but I decided not to get it. I have ranged AOEs, but somehow miss on those too. I have DoTs which force the stealther to use a DoT-Wipe. If they don't use it they get pulled out of stealth. I have a delayed damage skill, which can pull the stealther OUT of stealth after they do stealth. But I don't like that skill. So plz, nerf Operatives and Assassins, and make them easy targets for every class in the game. Edited February 5, 2012 by savionen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trujan Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I have, but alot of the times I havent. I posted this mainly from my experience last night in Huttball, hitting one dude almost dead and he vanishes, switch to another because it was a cluster going on, bam he vanishes as well. I try and switch to another that was almost dead and he vanishes before I can even attack. So yeah, it was definately a get out of jail free card for them. Ok, i hear you. So from the above, you win some you loose some, sounds fine to me. The incident last night, downer, you didn't bust their asses that time, but did they bust yours or your parties? Sounds like that engagement was a stalemate, and sounds good, and it sounds as though they all had alot of luck then. Just one bit a AOE happening on them at that time, and they would have all perished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitigated Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Again with the stealth thing, I dont care that you have stealth and you are the moron who thinks im talking about anything about that. Cheat Death ability! Not stealth, yes you go into stealth using it but thats is not my point and if you where smart you would realise this. You are attacking out of stealth, you get attacked, almost dead, bam nope not dead I run away with my ability. Im the one feeding the troll good God man ok, i'm gonna throw another angle out here... that ability you claim is a cheatdeath ability? My Operative is a healer, currently level 38 spec'd 26 medicine 3 lethality. Do you know what i use that ability for? to shake people off me when i am healing OTHERS! Think about that the next time you are in a WZ and getting heals from an Operative or Scoundrel, most times we have to use that ability so we can just keep healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HileyQuiggley Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 ok, i'm gonna throw another angle out here... that ability you claim is a cheatdeath ability? My Operative is a healer, currently level 38 spec'd 26 medicine 3 lethality. Do you know what i use that ability for? to shake people off me when i am healing OTHERS! Think about that the next time you are in a WZ and getting heals from an Operative or Scoundrel, most times we have to use that ability so we can just keep healing. Im sorry I still dont like it, my side or not. I can see its use there but doesnt make it right to me. If they where going down they should have went, just like when I get zerged down. It doesnt have to be gotten rid of entirely like I would hope but a longer re-use or something. Nothing is going to happen anyways. Thats why my very first topic was that I was mad about it, not screaming nerf. Then things got a little crazy with flames and guys mad they already got nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadcatGTs Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Summary of this thread: I'm a Mercenary, the best class in the game, but I have trouble with Operatives, who are now mediocre, and Assassins who are arguably the worst class in the game. I have heavy armor, but that doesn't matter. I have two knockbacks, allowing me to use them to knock the stealther off a cliff to instant death, off a ledge to where they can't attack me anymore, or simply 20 meters away, but I have no situational awareness. I have stealth scan, but I can't tell where he vanished to even though he only moved about 10 feet over 1.5 seconds. I can get stealth detection, but I decided not to get it. I have ranged AOEs, but somehow miss on those too. I have DoTs which force the stealther to use a DoT-Wipe. If they don't use it they get pulled out of stealth. I have a delayed damage skill, which can pull the stealther OUT of stealth after they do stealth. But I don't like that skill. So plz, nerf Operatives and Assassins, and make them easy targets for every class in the game. You are assuming the merc goes pryo, which most merc's don't. Plus, Merc's are the easiest class to shut down, far from the "best" class in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitigated Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Im sorry I still dont like it, my side or not. I can see its use there but doesnt make it right to me. If they where going down they should have went, just like when I get zerged down. It doesnt have to be gotten rid of entirely like I would hope but a longer re-use or something. Nothing is going to happen anyways. Thats why my very first topic was that I was mad about it, not screaming nerf. Then things got a little crazy with flames and guys mad they already got nerfed. Another use of it... in pve its an aggro breaker, and again a healer saver when i get aggro. Its a great mechanic, it has a cooldown, and its not a cheat death or get out of jail card. All it takes is a single dot to make it completely useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HileyQuiggley Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Done posting now folks, time to get ready for the SB. Free to flame away without a response, by me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trujan Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Thats why my very first topic was that I was mad about it, not screaming nerf. Then things got a little crazy with flames and guys mad they already got nerfed. Lol, the thread did take a turn for the worse, but i think you handled yourself with decorum. +1 from me dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batslav Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) ok, i'm gonna throw another angle out here... that ability you claim is a cheatdeath ability? My Operative is a healer, currently level 38 spec'd 26 medicine 3 lethality. Do you know what i use that ability for? to shake people off me when i am healing OTHERS! Think about that the next time you are in a WZ and getting heals from an Operative or Scoundrel, most times we have to use that ability so we can just keep healing. guard from tank do miracles to healers btw im not for removing it but to up the cd with atleast 2 min (5 if not talented) this way ppl who are afraid of dying (like they lose something) will use it a bit less and will need to think of is it better to waste the cd or to die and go to respawn area in warzones Edit: Someone lock it please Edited February 5, 2012 by Batslav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadcatGTs Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Have you played in the Tera beta or something then? the game has been out for a year in korea/japan, so, its not like theres no info on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I have to say, it's pretty rich seeing a trooper--the class with the most aoe in the game--complain about stealth. Also... very little CC? Best knockback in the game, and you can get two, and talent the one down to 20s. Ranged stun vs operative melee stun. Ranged snare vs operative melee snare. In-combat CC vs operative OOC sleep that fills the resolve bar. I mean, wow. Oh, and stealth operatives get a 1.5s knockdown from stealth that also fills the resolve bar. Just going off numbers and cooldowns, troopers have a lot more CC than operatives. The class matters because you made it matter in the OP by posting your spec. Vanish is not that great. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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