The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

[Dregas]

Dude what did i just tell you guys? You don't need a combat log. Can you do the following equation?

 

800 + 1500 + 1200 - 3200 = 300

 

Do you know what that was? That's a numerical representation of the initial fight between a Sorc and a juggernaut.

 

Smash hits for 800

Impale hits for 1.5k

Force Scream hit for 1.2k

 

The Sorc bubble dropped after scream and i saw that he only took 300 dmg after that entire attack sequence. We were both the same level and he didn't have any buffs on him save for the regular team ones. Through previous testing i know exactly how much my attacks are going to hit for against light - heavy armor types my level.

 

Simple mathematics. How are you gonna sit there and just call it perception/anecdotal evidence when I am looking at the screen and seeing actual numbers and their effect on my opponent and I.

 

Observation and implementation of Data from different resources is exactly how you can find what your dmg is. I see over and over again people saying "pvp isn't about 1vs1 so all data from that is flawed."

 

To that i say, "well sir how do you think i know the numbers i put up against different classes when they are buffed and unbuffed? Simple I duel them under all those conditions so when it's world pvp i can know EXACTLY what's going on."

[Tumri]

So you use ALL PVE gear in PVP?!? Yes, you top meters, but your complaining about Sorc being OP? Really? Your fighting an uphill battle. Regardless of your stats, you hit on average 10% less and they hit 10% more. (Obviously that % varies with gear)

 

Yes lol. So far the best I've done was ~530k in Voidstar in full PvE gear. I don't use a single piece of expertise gear because I ripped some of the mods out of whatever champion gear I got. No doubt I'm at a pretty severe disadvantage but it doesn't stop me much. I always beat the fully geared battlemaster Marauders on my server. If I'm up against a battlemaster geared player 1v1 I typically don't win since they get like a 30% advantage but I can typically play it smart and bait them into making mistakes that allow me to get kills(teammates FTW) or allow me to kill ball carriers(They chase me and I turn around and go after their ball carrier when they're far enough away). I had a Gladiator Hunter(S8 and S9) in WoW so I'm no stranger to PvP and Skill>All.

 

When I made this thread I didn't really think about my own person struggle against them. 9/10 of players fall over against me regardless of class. I just saw people using this amazing spec with incredible CC and that made me do my research. I found the spec incredibly overpowered and made this thread in an effort to rebalance them without killing the spec in PvP. I only suggested the most minor of changes because I'm not a fan of over-nerfing classes.

 

Your class gets:

An instant Stun that you don't have to talent, just like our Talented Whirlwind (Intimidating Roar)

 

It's identical to the CC that Sorcerers get on bubble pop except it's on a 1.5 minute cooldown as opposed to 20 seconds and fills the resolve bar a lot more despite being broken half way through the duration the majority of the time. This is our most powerful CC by leaps and bounds and the Backlash talent allows Sorcerers to have a far better version of it.

 

 

A Vanish to get out, making you disappear from everyone. (Force Camouflage)

 

This is easily out best ability. People complain about Undying Rage a lot but that ability rarely allows us to get a kill or escape. ForceCam allows us to escape with a decent success rate assuming the Marauder is intelligent and attempts to juke the enemy. If the ability use used at the wrong time it's useless since 4 seconds doesn't allow you to create real distance unless your enemies are tricked into going the wrong way.

 

I don't really think it's overpowered though. I'm obviously biased but we're already the most visible melee class. Assassins/Operatives get to pick their battles and have a better Vanish. PTs don't have stealth but they can force enemies to fight on their turf. Warriors are forced to be easily targeted at all times while also having to fight on the enemy's turf. Without ForceCam it would be pretty brutal to play a Marauder in any sort of PvP setting. We'd have no escape at all.

 

A channeled Stun that does damage, making your enemy not able to do anything; unless they break it. (Force Choke)

 

This is the worst stun in the game. The damage is pitiful. It's mainly useful as an interrupt or a way to keep people in range while DoTs are ticking.

 

An interupt preventing that spell from being cast for 4 secs (Disruption)

 

All melee have similar interrupts. Ranged classes get interrupts as well but on a longer cooldown to compensate for their longer range.

 

An ability that reduces all damage by 20% for 6-30 secs and deals damage to your attacker. That will be WAY more damage reduction then ANY shield used by a sorc. (Cloak of Pain)

 

It's okay but it's easily countered. CC or a quick root will allow time for it to fall off. It's definitely not better than bubble. A bubble is approximately 20% of your total health(3.5k bubble, 16k health pool). Cloak of Pain is equally good assuming we're DPS'd down to 0 health. It's better than bubble if you have a pocket healer and you take far more than your full health pool worth of damage over the duration(IE You're tanking a pile of people, which is bad lol). Bubble is better for sure if the fight lasts long enough for a second bubble to be cast. Pre-cast bubble allow this to occur often so most of the time Bubble is better by a decent margin. Light armor makes the Sorcerer bubble balanced though so don't get me wrong.. I definitely agree they need a Static Barrier as much as we need Cloak of Pain.

 

Another ability that increasing melee and ranged defenses by 50% and reducing the damage taken from Force and tech attacks by 25%. Lasts 12 seconds. Could be argued that its better than our bubble, it all depends on how many people are attacking. (Saber Ward)

 

It's definitely better than a bubble. The thing is it's on a 3 minute cooldown and people tend to just CC you or just run away since it's such a disadvantage to fight us while it's up. It's a great ability overall though.

 

And you have Force Charge

 

Yes. It's our class defining gap closer. It's our best ability by far and one of the only good utility moves. A non-stealth melee without a gap closer would be about as good as an NPC.

 

--------------------------------------

 

All those abilities and you can't seem to get to a Sorc, Stay and stay on him to kill him? You got so angry you had to create a very long post, in which you obviously spent time on, and scream to get Sorc's nerfed.

 

So yes, I ended my thread with you got outplayed. Because its the only thing that makes logical sense, why else would you need Sorc's to be nerfed? You use PVE gear in PVP and you're getting so upset you have to make posts about it.

 

My response is in Red.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Tumri

[Lormif]

Dude what did i just tell you guys? You don't need a combat log. Can you do the following equation?

 

800 + 1500 + 1200 - 3200 = 300

 

Do you know what that was? That's a numerical representation of the initial fight between a Sorc and a juggernaut.

 

Smash hits for 800

Impale hits for 1.5k

Force Scream hit for 1.2k

 

The Sorc bubble dropped after scream and i saw that he only took 300 dmg after that entire attack sequence. We were both the same level and he didn't have any buffs on him save for the regular team ones. Through previous testing i know exactly how much my attacks are going to hit for against light - heavy armor types my level.

 

Simple mathematics. How are you gonna sit there and just call it perception/anecdotal evidence when I am looking at the screen and seeing actual numbers and their effect on my opponent and I.

 

Observation and implementation of Data from different resources is exactly how you can find what your dmg is. I see over and over again people saying "pvp isn't about 1vs1 so all data from that is flawed."

 

To that i say, "well sir how do you think i know the numbers i put up against different classes when they are buffed and unbuffed? Simple I duel them under all those conditions so when it's world pvp i can know EXACTLY what's going on."

 

So how about when the maurader uses Saber Ward, it has the potential to reduce way more damage then the bubble. Or what about the fact that difference in health between the 2 is about as much as the bubble, or the fact that they have less armor so therefore less base reduction..

 

There you go simple math that shows that the Maurader ability is infinitely better (because it scales) then the sorcs bubble.

[biowareftw]

Warrior - Intimidating Roar - Untalented 6 second AOE stun/mes

Sorry my bad thought got all the jugs out-Force Push 2 second stun/mes

warrior - Force Choke 3 second stun

Marauder -Predation 10 second run speed increase for a group

Marauder -Deadly Throw reduces healing to the target

Warrior - Disruption interupt

Marauder - Crippling Slash 50% slow for 12 seconds

Marauder -Cloak of Pain shield/reflect damage all in one

warrior -Saber Ward - reduces melee and tech defenses by 50% and reduces all force damage by 25% for 12 seconds, MUCH better then our shield which will last about 3 seconds for a static amount.

warrior - Force Charge- built in jump to target with an 2 second imobilize and interupt, giveing you a 30m interrupt.

 

So that one ability, force throw was the only mistakenly jug ability in there, yet was all that, in your mind, makes to invalidate the post?

 

Also I left the costs/cooldowns out because if I did that I would have to add talents, like you did, which would make it worst then that.

 

Learn the difference between a instant cast stun and other CC that breaks on dmg or needs to be channeled. If a JK/SW is channeling on you? They aren't hitting you with melee (which does more dmg). It can also be interupted.

 

You then compare a 3 minute cooldown with a bubble that can be used twice in any one on one fight? LOL? Can we throw that bubble on other people (as a dps spec), which is the BEST instant heal in the game, because there are no offensive dispels in this game?

 

You didn't even know the difference between a juggernaut/guardian and a marauder/sent.

 

You list an interrupt? What does that have to do with anything. Are you a trooper/commando? No? Sage/sorc has a RANGED interupt, just like a RANGED stun and a ranged slow and your main dps spell autokites...

 

Add to this? A marauder/sent has to press a button for their automatic mez. Yours goes off automatically and off the global cooldown as a hybrid spec when your shield breaks...

 

I would say your whole post is invalid and among the worst posts I have ever seen on this forum. This is what happens when they make a class absolutely faceroll. Clueless people like you who don't even know one AC from another make clueless posts, because you finally found a MMO with a ranged class so dumbed down and OP as a hybrid spec, that even you can compete.

 

People that don't CC right, don't use their slow, never use their interrupt, never shield other people, never heal themselves, and don't even know what the hell is even going on with other classes in this game, can come close to leading dmg, due to automatic CC, a shield and a dps cycle that could be played with an original nintendo controller.

 

Thanks for proving the OP's point. Hybrid spec needs to go.

Edited February 14, 2012 by biowareftw

[baltman]

I've flagged this thread for moderators. Hopefully it is closed soon. Nothing new is being presented. No need for an endless flame war.

[Kelticfury]

Dude what did i just tell you guys? You don't need a combat log. Can you do the following equation?

 

800 + 1500 + 1200 - 3200 = 300

 

Do you know what that was? That's a numerical representation of the initial fight between a Sorc and a juggernaut.

 

Smash hits for 800

Impale hits for 1.5k

Force Scream hit for 1.2k

 

So now to avoid being disengenuous, show what happens when that sorc attacks the jugg with his guard/saber ward on

[Tumri]

Nothing new is being presented. Except for the fact that a new argument pops up every few pages. The thread is extremely long and old arguments are restated at times but there's been new stuff as well.

 

If you don't want to read the thread then just don't read it.

[Lormif]

Learn the difference between a instant cast stun and other CC that breaks on dmg or needs to be channeled. If a JK/SW is channeling on you? They aren't hitting you with melee (which does more dmg). It can also be interupted.

 

And if we are running away, the major concern with this post, then we are not doing ANY damage.

 

You then compare a 3 minute cooldown with a bubble that can be used twice in any one on one fight? LOL? Can we throw that bubble on other people (as a dps spec), which is the BEST instant heal in the game, because there are no offensive dispels in this game?

Where do I compare any 2 abilities lol, learn to read.

 

You didn't even know the difference between a juggernaut/guardian and a marauder/sent.

Please explain? I let one ability slip in and then OMG I DONT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE?

 

You list an interrupt? What does that have to do with anything. Are you a trooper/commando? No? Sage/sorc has a RANGED interupt, just like a RANGED stun and a ranged slow and your main dps spell autokites...

 

you have a ranged interrupt as well..... Which also Immobilizes! I listed it because he listed ours.....

 

Add to this? A marauder/sent has to press a button for their automatic mez. Yours goes off automatically and off the global cooldown as a hybrid spec when your shield breaks...

 

So you are actually going to claim that because I have 0 control over my mez it is somehow better then yours which you have 100% control over?

 

I would say your whole post is invalid and among the worst posts I have ever seen on this forum. This is what happens when they make a class absolutely faceroll. Clueless people like you who don't even know one AC from another make clueless posts, because you finally found a MMO with a ranged class so dumbed down and OP as a hybrid spec, that even you can compete.

I would say this whole post of yours is invalid and amond the worst post because it is totally not even relevant to the conversation.

 

People that don't CC right, don't use their slow, never use their interrupt, never shield other people, never heal themselves, and don't even know what the hell is even going on with other classes in this game, can come close to leading dmg, due to automatic CC, a shield and a dps cycle that could be played with an original nintendo controller.

 

Thanks for proving the OP's point. Hybrid spec needs to go.

 

I dont see that happening........

[Dregas]

So how about when the maurader uses Saber Ward, it has the potential to reduce way more damage then the bubble. Or what about the fact that difference in health between the 2 is about as much as the bubble, or the fact that they have less armor so therefore less base reduction..

 

There you go simple math that shows that the Maurader ability is infinitely better (because it scales) then the sorcs bubble.

 

Man lol Saber Ward is on A THREE MINUTE COOL DOWN. Chances are that if you are fighting a jugg or a marauder, it's on CD. I would trade it for the bubble in a heartbeat. Infinitely more useful, can be put on other players, and can be recast during a fight. So since it's up so little, mathematically speaking it is completely inferior.

[biowareftw]

I've flagged this thread for moderators. Hopefully it is closed soon. Nothing new is being presented. No need for an endless flame war.

 

When you can't argue FACTS, report to moderators.

 

Same thing happened in beta. I played a hybrid sorc/sage said it was OP as hell, got called bad when I gave feedback, responded to the "bads", showed them how wrong they were, showed them that I doubled their dmg with the same faceroll class and then?

 

Mass reports due to "dun nerf me brah" syndrome.

 

Report away lol. This forum is what 80 percent Sorcs/sages? If Bioware/EA can't see past the BS evident in this entire thread and balance their game? The game will fail anyways.

 

The 10-49 bracket is filled only with classes that have a ranged stun and ONLY sorc/sage healers and MOSTLY sorc/sage dps.

 

It is the most obvious thing in the world. Maybe when all these 10-49's get to 50 and you see just how dumb the resolve system is and how stupidly OP the hybrid spec is (when GOOD players reroll them)? You might see the truth.

[emeria]

"A Madness Sorcerer is supposed to have some CC and a lot of Mobility due to a reliance on instant casts and DoT effects.

 

A Lightning Sorcer is supposed to have a lot of defensive CC and very limited Mobility due to reliance on hard casts.

 

The problem is that the hybrid spec has both the Mobility of Madness and the defensive CC of Lightning at the same time while also having greater damage than either spec."

 

You do realize that we are not masters of dot damage or masters of burst damage, correct?

 

The hybrid spec has less damage output than the other specs (minus healing). Trees are pointless if you cannot mix and match to make hybrid builds. We can see an example of this in WoW and how they decided to kill them by making you take a specialization; they then decided that in the next expansion pack, they are going to change up the talent system to allow for more variety in specs. If Bioware forces us to choose one tree (specialization), then it will just hurt the game.

 

I play a sage, but do not find sorcs or sages OP against me in pvp. You need to learn to LOS them. Stun them, knock them back, or whatever you need to. If you are melee just get on them and they are wicked squishy. The hybrid spec is supposed to be able to survive a little better than the main specs, hence why people use this as a pvp spec. Without a spec like this, we would be killed even easier than we are now. We may do less damage, but we have a chance to last.

 

If anything, ask for a buff for your class.

Edited February 14, 2012 by emeria

[Tumri]

The hybrid spec has superior damage output as well. It also sufferers less from putting talent points in CC instead of DPS boosts. Edited February 14, 2012 by Tumri

[Lormif]

Man lol Saber Ward is on A THREE MINUTE COOL DOWN. Chances are that if you are fighting a jugg or a marauder, it's on CD. I would trade it for the bubble in a heartbeat. Infinitely more useful, can be put on other players, and can be recast during a fight. So since it's up so little, mathematically speaking it is completely inferior.

 

Mathematically speaking it is infinity better..

A) it lasts a static 12 seconds, bubble can go by by in 1 hit, and you still take damage

B) it's benefit scales with how many people are hitting you.

[Kelticfury]

I quit playing my sorc because i got tired of being tagged then focus fired for the entire match.

 

I am loving my sentinel, although I will probably need to buy a naga soon.

[biowareftw]

And if we are running away, the major concern with this post, then we are not doing ANY damage.

 

 

Where do I compare any 2 abilities lol, learn to read.

 

 

Please explain? I let one ability slip in and then OMG I DONT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE?

 

 

 

you have a ranged interrupt as well..... Which also Immobilizes! I listed it because he listed ours.....

 

 

 

So you are actually going to claim that because I have 0 control over my mez it is somehow better then yours which you have 100% control over?

 

 

I would say this whole post of yours is invalid and amond the worst post because it is totally not even relevant to the conversation.

 

 

 

I dont see that happening........

 

Your post was laughable. You referred to channeled CC as a stun, and thought marauder/jug was one AC.

 

Noone who has played more then one class in this game, or has a clue about how pvp works in this game read past the first line in your post.

 

BTW I have played the hybrid spec. I actually know what I am talking about, unlike you. I suggest rolling a sent/marauder. Do it on a high pop realm as republic. Link screenshots of how well you do. I need a good laugh.

 

I will make a sage/sorc and lead dmg from the time I get no lightning spam till I hit 50. I will do it with an Xbox 360 controller to show how dumb it is...

[Varicite]

When you can't argue FACTS, report to moderators.

 

Same thing happened in beta. I played a hybrid sorc/sage said it was OP as hell, got called bad when I gave feedback, responded to the "bads", showed them how wrong they were, showed them that I doubled their dmg with the same faceroll class and then?

 

Mass reports due to "dun nerf me brah" syndrome.

 

Report away lol. This forum is what 80 percent Sorcs/sages? If Bioware/EA can't see past the BS evident in this entire thread and balance their game? The game will fail anyways.

 

The 10-49 bracket is filled only with classes that have a ranged stun and ONLY sorc/sage healers and MOSTLY sorc/sage dps.

 

It is the most obvious thing in the world. Maybe when all these 10-49's get to 50 and you see just how dumb the resolve system is and how stupidly OP the hybrid spec is (when GOOD players reroll them)? You might see the truth.

 

There haven't been a great deal of actual "facts" other than the ability tooltips thrown around by either side of this argument. Somehow, even the ability tooltips have been misconstrued pretty often in this thread, lol.

 

Pretty much everything you've personally said has fallen directly into the realm of opinion, which you continually try to pass off as "fact". They are not the same thing.

 

I'm playing the 10-49 bracket right now on my Sniper alt, and it is absolutely not what you say it is on my server. Again, see what I said about "anecdotal evidence".

 

Statements like the ones you're making here are obviously fallacious and exaggerated, and therefore are automatically dismissed by most people seeking real insight to the issue.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Varicite

[Lormif]

Your post was laughable. You referred to channeled CC as a stun, and thought marauder/jug was one AC.

You are really making yourself look stupid, lets look at the description of force choke show we?

Chokes the target, crushing and stunning it while Force Choke is channeled

Also please quote where I stated that a jugg and a maurader was the same class, please, stop using logical fallacies.

 

BTW I have played the hybrid spec. I actually know what I am talking about, unlike you. I suggest rolling a sent/marauder. Do it on a high pop realm as republic. Link screenshots of how well you do. I need a good laugh.

 

I have a sage and a jugg on the same server, and yes I know they are different factions, of course my jug is on level 30..

 

SSs mean nothing, you can pull them from anywhere. I can point out the OP and a point of a marauder topping all the charts all the time.

[biowareftw]

Mathematically speaking it is infinity better..

A) it lasts a static 12 seconds, bubble can go by by in 1 hit, and you still take damage

B) it's benefit scales with how many people are hitting you.

 

You fail at math.

 

There isn't a class in this game that a hybrid spec sorc won't get 2 shields off against in a one on one situation unless they are a mouthbreather. At the start of every warzone/res, they get 2 shields back to back because you aren't engaging an enemy until the first shield is almost off cooldown.

 

On the other hand the 3 min cooldown can be used...once every 3 minutes and if you are saving it for a one on one? You are an idiot.

 

Why do people like you even use terms like "mathematically speaking"? Do you think this is going to somehow impress people when you can't understand the basics of a simple video game, or real world scenarios that happen in this game?

 

It is mathematically possible that I can take apart my computer throw all the pieces up in the air and it will put itself together.

 

It is ever going to happen? No. Add to that? No math even supports your stupid claim, because you are leaving out the timer on cooldowns out of your mythical equation.

 

Go ahead and call me stupid one more time lol. I don't need to report your posts. I am not a child like the people in this thread and I am not a pseudo intellectual like you are either...

 

I just laugh at people like you.

Edited February 15, 2012 by biowareftw

[Varicite]

You fail at math.

 

There isn't a class in this game that a hybrid spec sorc won't get 2 shields off against in a one on one situation unless they are a mouthbreather. At the start of every warzone/res, they get 2 shields back to back because you aren't engaging an enemy until the first shield is almost off cooldown.

 

On the other hand the 3 min cooldown can be used...once every 3 minutes and if you are saving it for a one on one? You are an idiot.

 

Why do people like you even use terms like "mathematically speaking"? Do you think this is going to somehow impress people when you can't understand the basics of a simple video game, or real world scenarios that happen in this game?

 

It is mathematically possible that I can take apart my computer throw all the pieces up in the air and it will put itself together.

 

It is ever going to happen? No. Add to that? No math even supports your stupid claim, because you are leaving out the timer on cooldowns out of your mythical equation.

 

Go ahead and call me stupid one more time lol. I don't need to report your posts. I am not a child like the people in this thread and I am not a pseudo intellectual like you are either...

 

I just laugh at people like you.

 

You are acting pretty childish.

 

Just sayin'.

[Dregas]

Mathematically speaking it is infinity better..

A) it lasts a static 12 seconds, bubble can go by by in 1 hit, and you still take damage

B) it's benefit scales with how many people are hitting you.

 

A. 12 seconds out of 3 minutes means it is up for 7% of that 3 minute window. With it's ability to be up every 20 seconds for a 3.2k soak/various CC's the bubble has leaps and bounds more ability to soak up way more dmg than saber ward could ever dream of.

 

B. The 50% defensive buff sounds a lot stronger than it actually is. The problem is against one opponent your odds of taking too much dmg isn't that great. But believe me when i say that dmg sure still gets through. In the example you give of multiple opponents hitting you, with the way percentages work, an enormous amount of dmg gets through quite easily. It doesn't scale really at all. Now the same can be said of the bubble so I won't argue with you there. But the big difference is once popped, a Sorc has other abilities to fall back on and heal himself. The jugg/marauder? Not so much. Now here is the kicker...by the time all this is said and done guess what? The Sorcs bubble is back up while saber ward is STILL on CD.

 

Bubble is still better.

[Lormif]

You fail at math.

Tell that to my A in calc 3 at the moment.

 

There isn't a class in this game that a hybrid spec sorc won't get 2 shields off against in a one on one situation unless they are a mouthbreather. At the start of every warzone/res, they get 2 shields back to back because you aren't engaging an enemy until the first shield is almost off cooldown.

 

So after that first fight that WZ is over and starts a new? If I cant bubble at the START of a fight I have 17 seconds to cast it again. If you cant kill a sorc in 17 seconds there is a problem with you.

 

On the other hand the 3 min cooldown can be used...once every 3 minutes and if you are saving it for a one on one? You are an idiot.

 

Again with the logical fallacies..Personal attacks just shows your lack of logic. My shield absorbs a static 3k damage, your shield absorbs a PERCENTAGE. This means the more incoming damage the BETTER it gets...

 

Why do people like you even use terms like "mathematically speaking"? Do you think this is going to somehow impress people when you can't understand the basics of a simple video game, or real world scenarios that happen in this game?

 

I am not trying to impress anyone, and you have only showed that you yourself are the one who is having issues understanding how a scalable ability is better then a static ability.

 

It is mathematically possible that I can take apart my computer throw all the pieces up in the air and it will put itself together.

 

It is ever going to happen? No. Add to that? No math even supports your stupid claim, because you are leaving out the timer on cooldowns out of your mythical equation.

 

I would love to see the match that supports your poor analogy...

 

Cooldowns matter, but it is not as big as you are making it out to be.

 

Go ahead and call me stupid one more time lol. I don't need to report your posts. I am not a child like the people in this thread and I am not a pseudo intellectual like you are either...

 

I just laugh at people like you.

 

I think I have called you stupid one time, however you have been more antagonistic to towards mine by a large factor.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Lormif

[Varicite]

A. 12 seconds out of 3 minutes means it is up for 7% of that 3 minute window. With it's ability to be up every 20 seconds for a 3.2k soak/various CC's the bubble has leaps and bounds more ability to soak up way more dmg than saber ward could ever dream of.

 

B. The 50% defensive buff sounds a lot stronger than it actually is. The problem is against one opponent your odds of taking too much dmg isn't that great. But believe me when i say that dmg sure still gets through. In the example you give of multiple opponents hitting you, with the way percentages work, an enormous amount of dmg gets through quite easily. It doesn't scale really at all. Now the same can be said of the bubble so I won't argue with you there. But the big difference is once popped, a Sorc has other abilities to fall back on and heal himself. The jugg/marauder? Not so much. Now here is the kicker...by the time all this is said and done guess what? The Sorcs bubble is back up while saber ward is STILL on CD.

 

Bubble is still better.

 

Different classes are still different, and you're not taking into account Jug/Mara mobility and mobile damage, as well as heavier armor, and completely different class mechanics.

 

This is really just silly.

 

My Powertech only has a 25% damage reduction on a 2 minute cd for defensive cooldowns. You don't hear me complaining about the Sorc bubble, OR Mara nigh-invincibility.

[biowareftw]

You are acting pretty childish.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Yeah, because I should totally value and cherish feedback from people that call other people stupid when they don't know the difference between 2 AC's, and then talk about "math" and equations and crap.

 

Here is an equation.

 

His statement where he claimed sent/maraduers had jug/sw abilities is = to me saying that sage/sorc have stealth then using that in an argument about game balance.

 

Whatever though. I am sure he is raging so hard atm that he is spamming the report button at this moment.

 

I could care less what you or he thinks of me. The last thing I need is some self proclaimed genius who calls other people stupid (when he is the epitome of the word) to be my buddy in a video game forum, and thinks they are somehow good at this game because they are playing the most stupidly OP range class I have ever beta tested or played in an MMO.

Edited February 15, 2012 by biowareftw

[Rallic]

Lets use the Marauder as an example shall we? Our only real CC outside of Fail Choke is our AoE mezz. I know that it can be used to great effect situationally. Because you play a sorcerer it seems you're just far too spoiled when it comes to CC to see how useful such an ability is. I would trade my AoE mezz for a whirlwind any day.

 

Lol wow if you can't take out a sorc with your marauder , delete tje toon uninstal the game and toss your computer into the lake and you don't need it any more.

 

 

If the sorcs getting guarded and or healed your solo *** should not beat any one.

[Lormif]

A. 12 seconds out of 3 minutes means it is up for 7% of that 3 minute window. With it's ability to be up every 20 seconds for a 3.2k soak/various CC's the bubble has leaps and bounds more ability to soak up way more dmg than saber ward could ever dream of.

A) it is very possible that our bubble is up 1 second out of every 17 which means it is up 5% of the time.

 

B. The 50% defensive buff sounds a lot stronger than it actually is. The problem is against one opponent your odds of taking too much dmg isn't that great. But believe me when i say that dmg sure still gets through. In the example you give of multiple opponents hitting you, with the way percentages work, an enormous amount of dmg gets through quite easily. It doesn't scale really at all. Now the same can be said of the bubble so I won't argue with you there. But the big difference is once popped, a Sorc has other abilities to fall back on and heal himself. The jugg/marauder? Not so much. Now here is the kicker...by the time all this is said and done guess what? The Sorcs bubble is back up while saber ward is STILL on CD.

 

Bubble is still better.

 

It is a scalable 25% damage reduction that you are not even mention (vs force). Meaning the more force users attacking you the more it absorbs. This is not even taken into account the 50% defense...

 

Yours is still better.