The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

[Tumri]

Clear analysis doesn't make him right, you can present a case from a number of angles (that is what lawyers do). I disagree with it simply because the top tier talents for sorc/sage are comepletley bollocks. This is why that hybrid spec is popular. The "tons of cc" is hardly game-breaking since all have long cooldowns (and only root is unaffected by resolve)and Iam sick to death of explaining to people why the class has the utility it does. A sorc/sage knows their strengths and weaknesses. That others don't is not my problem, the devs know also, and will adjust accordingly in time, if any changes are needed.

 

I applaud the OP for trying to make his argument in a concise manner and at least back it up with solid information though. This is the sort of post i don't object to because it is done without making stuff up, and he is not discrediting himself. I just disagree with it really, the bottom line is - sorc/sage are not impossible to kill - smart players know what they do, and know how to counter them.

 

I play a sage at battlemaster rank, I've met many other battlemasters from different classes and I don't see them having a problem really, soon as they spot a dps sage or healer - he gets focused or nuked down like he is made of paper.

Ye he will use force speed (counter root, not affected by resolve) and any decent player wil expect it - i mean I keep seeing people describe exactly what sorc sages do (more or less exgerrated but get the gist of it), so my question is, what are the players that complain doing about it?

 

Here is what you can do to counter some of our key abilities. (to those how claim you cannot)

 

Force speed - Use a root. Not hard this ablitity is 2 seconds long, about right imo. Any longer then yes I would say nerf. Any shorter pointless.

 

Tele throw - interupt bang bang. This is gaining me force while im using it and setting up a good proc for damage, it is also snaring the opponent, not rooting them. If i see a simlilar specced sage/or sorc i interupt it, and it gives me the drop 99 percent of the time if Iam on similar health, to set up my proc or dot them or whatever.

 

Shield, "takes forever to knock down" - absolute crap it takes a second or two at the most, you cannot reapply for 20 SECONDS. It can be used to give you a second to survive a crit, or get a fast heal off if your lucky. It's also very useful to help protect team mates and get a vital save on them, so you should know how useful it is.

It is absolutley nothing like a paladins bubble, this is just complete *********.

 

Heals - this is the funniest one if he is dps specced and you cannot interupt a sorc or sage healing you are just awflul. Its not that much harder if he is a healer (mark him and tell ur team to nuke him?). No dps specced sage has imba heals, this is just lies or misinformation. Dont use a big cc to lock them out for a while on them straight way, if they break this they will more than likely have full resolve and you cant stun them or anything, its fine to use when they are nearly dead tho.

Wait for their first big heal, interupt right near the end of the cast, when they cast their second, leap/grapple/pull, knockback anything to interupt it. Last time stun them. Works for me. You can always tell their heals by the green bar. By the fourth heal he should be dead or you have your interupt up again. If their healing dots are outhealing your damage, you are bloody terrible, simple as that.

Key thing is you are a team, if your the only one focusing the healer then your team is basically ****.

 

Knockback? You get knocked back, who doesnt? Not much you can do about it other than be smart where you position yourself. Our knockback has two purposes, to stop us getting swarmed by melee (big hint there) and to knock people off the edges of stuff or into fire. Big deal. You can put points into rooting everyone else, which is useful in huttball - me personally i dont care about them getting rid of the root aspect. The knockback is enough.

 

Dots if your dotted you can be undotted, but thats a teamplay issue. The dots dont tick for alot unless its mind crush + weaken mind, but an instant mind crush proc can only come from letting them spam telethrow or lightning. If they are slow casting mind crush it takes a while, so it can be interupted in numerous ways, or line of sighted.

 

Line of sight

 

Pretty easy to negate range damage by using the environment. If your a shadow or asssasin you can negate ranged damage through an ability, not sure about tanks and melee but id bet there are similar options.

 

Gap closers

 

This is also an interupt. Pulls, leaps whatever are all the equivalent of force speed. Sages have force speed because they wear light armor, and need to be mobile to heal their team-mates and escape melee (crikey who would of thought we need to run wearing cloth), or gain a useful position in cover from which we can throw out sustained damage and decent procs. Alot of classes have simliar things, be it being able to stealth to get out of trouble, or leaping across the map on huttball to score.

 

Rescue.

This is used to pull people out of fire, out of being zerged, unto platforms in huttball etc. Very useful in pvp and pve, long cooldown. One of my favourites because its funny to see people leaping backwards out of danger.

 

Sever force

 

Fairly decent root, good for keeping melee at bay, does a small amount of damage , not affected by resolve. However if you are using the hybrid spec the OP describes, no one has an accurate single target root at all. You cannot have a ranged root that snares one target and run that hybrid spec.

 

Force stun

 

4 seconds and a moderate amount of damage, long cooldown

 

Force lift

 

Locks a target out of the fight, for a while. If your team is stupid they will just shoot the thing you cced that was causing problems (most of the time someone does this), or he breaks the cc - now he has full resolve, and you cant stun him. Use this wisely, like over fire pits in huttball (this can stop them scoring), or only if you have no choice e.g he is a healer who is about to save someone from dying with one heal.

 

We do have a ranged snare, that can slow people down and healers can spec into using weaken mind as a snare, but they need that imo, they dont have any root at all.

 

Conclusion

 

If you let me chain telethrow, use weaken mind, project and proc mind crush and proc telewave at the back, untouched then I will do crazy damage. If your smart, 2-3 players jump me im dead, I try to shield and run and im doing no damage to anyone. If im lucky i might stun one, lift the other and run to gain a bit of time, but that is dependent on my abilities not being on cooldown and more often than not im buying myself time.

If there is more of my class, then work out which is the healer. If theres three healers, good luck. If there are lot of sorc and sage on the other team your in trouble. But that gos for mercs/commandos, shadows, etc.

 

Thats it really. Point is all classes have tools they can use to cc, do good damage, shield themselves or stealth, they all have something that others do not. I could go on about how unfair it is in xx situation with xx class but I do not understand the mechanics of every classs in the game, and would refrain from saying xx class needs a nerf when I havent even played it.

 

Fair points made OP, I just disagree with them.

 

Good points. The thing is I agree with most of that. I agree a Sorc/Sage should have all of his base CC to counteract the fact that he is slightly more vulnerable to physical/kinetic damage and cannot do as well in melee range.

 

The only uncounterable over the top CC/Utility are the two talents I mentioned in the OP and even then I'm giving Sorcs/Sages some ground by trying to argue for just taking these talents out of the hands of hybrids, not Lightning spec Sorcerers. This is because a ridiculous imbalance is caused by putting that much CC and control into the hands of an already mobile spec with instant-cast nukes and a filler that auto-slows and does a fair amount of damage. A decent argument could be made for the immobile hard-cast reliant Lightning spec to have the additional CC/control capability.

 

What can you do against a 3 second immobilize that comes whenever you try and pop a bubble?

 

What can you do against a 5 second(2s if broken by dmg) immobilize that comes whenever the Sorc/Sage uses his 20s CD knockback? The usual counter of juking the knockback and positioning yourself correctly is moot with the talent.

 

I'm not trying to say the Sorc/Sage's base CC/Utility is overpowered. I'm saying that the hybrid spec I linked pushes a class that already has a lot of CC, Utility, and Escapability too far over the top by adding two extremely potent CCs on their two 20 second cooldown abilities.

[PloGreen]

Good points. The thing is I agree with most of that. I agree a Sorc/Sage should have all of his base CC to counteract the fact that he is slightly more vulnerable to physical/kinetic damage and cannot do as well in melee range.

 

The only uncounterable over the top CC/Utility are the two talents I mentioned in the OP and even then I'm giving Sorcs/Sages some ground by trying to argue for just taking these talents out of the hands of hybrids, not Lightning spec Sorcerers. This is because a ridiculous imbalance is caused by putting that much CC and control into the hands of an already mobile spec with instant-cast nukes and a filler that auto-slows and does a fair amount of damage. A decent argument could be made for the immobile hard-cast reliant Lightning spec to have the additional CC/control capability.

 

What can you do against a 3 second immobilize that comes whenever you try and pop a bubble?

 

What can you do against a 5 second(2s if broken by dmg) immobilize that comes whenever the Sorc/Sage uses his 20s CD knockback? The usual counter of juking the knockback and positioning yourself correctly is moot with the talent.

 

I'm not trying to say the Sorc/Sage's base CC/Utility is overpowered. I'm saying that the hybrid spec I linked pushes a class that already has a lot of CC, Utility, and Escapability too far over the top by adding two extremely potent CCs on their two 20 second cooldown abilities.

 

Fair enough mate. You at least do so by backing it up with information. If the devs agree then we will see in time. If they tweak a few things here and there I think we could cope, if they give us a decent top tier talent. I would not be against scrapping the root on aoe knockback, move it up the tree more so hybrid specs dont get it. I dont think it is needed. Ill agree with you on that one.

[Darth_Eclipses]

It's not sorcs who are OP, it's the fact that this game's handling of resolve and crowd control in pvp in general is simply outrageous.

 

Every class gets multiple forms of CC, which are generally spammable and low resource cost. Resolve does not count towards roots; and roots or stuns are not cleansable which makes them even worse.

 

If anything this thread needs to have BW look at how it approaches crowd control and how that ends up in a frustrating experience for TOR's playerbase rather than trying to get one of the other viable pvp specs for a class nerfed.

[Orangerascal]

I can't really respect anyone who puts in his signature "reasons why Sorcerer/Sages are OP in pvp. [or do that for any class tbh]

 

A sentinel no less, the best 1v1 class and best group utility class in the game.

[Tumri]

1. You're talking about a sorc who's popping ALL of his cds to get ONE 5k crit burst. How is this OP? This is also based off of procs and channeled abilities. QQ more please.

 

Your tears taste delicious.

 

I'm not saying it's overpowered. I'm saying it's burst damage similar to what a lot of other classes get.

 

2. There aren't any 6.5k bubbles. I guarantee you. Please show me a bubble absorbing 6.5k and I will eat my foot. I have tested thoroughly the strength of my bubble even using shield generators and for the vast majority of sorcs, who will use a focus, the shield strength absorbs 3100-3200 MAX. This includes the talented 20% increase.

 

How to test? Go to the Museum on the Fleet, go to the laser. Shield yourself, then take a hit. Subtract the dmg you took from your max HP, then add your remaining HP. Viola! I guarantee you your shield will never proc 6.5k. NEVER!

 

Perhaps it's lower than 6.5k. It's definitely over 4k though. 3.2k is an incredibly low number from what I've seen. I said 3.5-6.5 because another thread in the Sorcerer forums noted that as the normal range for a well geared Sorcerer. I tried to find the thread again but it was from back when I first created the thread and it's long gone into the depths of the forums now..

 

3. Their utility isn't subpar - but neither is your's. Their dmg is what is subpar - and it's made up for by their much talked about utility.

 

Total dmg done is frankly irrelevant. How much of that is effectual dmg? Honestly? Throwing Affliction on everyone around you on CD will certainly pad dmg meters but what is it really doing?

 

AOE dmg specs in VS are totally disingenuous and not indicative at all that the sage/sorc class needs a nerf.

 

Their damage isn't at all sub-par. If they focus on doing single target damage then they can be at least competitive with everyone else. I don't understand where this "low single target damage" BS comes from.

 

 

Try again.

 

Overall I feel you're really downplaying the damage of the Sorcerer and might have lower end gear as far as the bubble absorption amount goes. The burst bit you're taking out of context. That was put in the OP as a response to a long argument about Sorcerer burst earlier in the thread.

[Izini]

I look for sorcs for easy kills. So, you say they're over powered...lol

[Kalantris]

1. You have your 11 point Telekenesis talent which can hit for upwards of 5k with adenals/relic with a Wrath proc. People were complaining about burst so I mentioned exactly how a Sorcerer can burst. Another thing is while Sorcerers don't have a lot of big hitting moves their actual total damage is up there with the best. They're a DoT based class. In Annihilation spec(my only real viable spec) I can't hit for more than 5k but my DoTs and other smaller hits add up.

 

2. 6.5k bubbles definitely are possible with gear. It appears there's some variation on how much the bubble absorbs depending on stats. The bubbles also seem to randomly fall within a range of absorb values so one bubble might be slightly weaker while another is slightly stronger.

 

 

3. Are you really trying to claim that all of the utility listed is outdone? Yeah maybe if you combine ever non-Sorcerer AC's utility and make some kind of superclass you could beat the current Sorcerer utility by a small margin. If you're going to make wild claims then at least provide evidence as to why you think their utility is subpar.

 

Can you even be more wrong? I'm going to answer to 1 below, lemme just say this one mroe time: no, you can't have a 6,5k bubble. Whoever told you that is an idiot. Simple. The base of the bubble is 2k. You can have +20% in talents and then the bonus from power/willpower, which is taken from bonus healing. I have like 700-ish bonus healing in my PvE gear, which is Collumi/Rakata (implants, mainhand, offhand, bracers). There is no build and there are no items, which would allow you to have 6,5k shield. Not. In. This. Game.

 

What exactly do you mean that's all you're "left with"? What happened to the truckload of CC up there?

 

I clearly explained how all of our CC breaks on all damage and how we're dot dependand. There's no way to dispel your own dots, so you can either CC or deal any damage. Once you dot someone you have to wait 15 seconds to use any of your CC except for the ones I mentioned.

 

 

About the burst, yeah expertise will lower the 5k+ figure I gave. Expertise lowers everyone's damage. Do you think other classes are getting 5k+ crits on fully geared BM players? No. They aren't. That burst I talked about is very doable and it's comparable to the burst most other ACs can put out. It's actually far better than Marauder burst and a few Sorcerers have made the wild claim that they have absolutely nothing in terms of burst damage earlier in the thread.

 

I said there is no way to score 5k+ crit on anyone wearing any armour, because our abilities don't hit that hard. Let me simplify it for you: no matter what you do you'll never reach 2k flat damage on telekinetic wave, which is sage's most powerful nuke, but you can reach way more than that on other classes like a commando or a marauder. The base damage of sage's abilities is too low.

 

It's also not better than a marauders burst. I play a sentinel and I know I'm fully capable of doing more than that in perhaps three globals on combat spec. It's not better than a grav round burst (sticky, grav + instant). It's not better than a slingers burst (aimed + instant). It's not better than a guardians burst (grip, then AoE + throw + throw). It's not better than... should I go on? No, the power of the sage is not the burst itself, but the fact, that it's AoE. Hits for way less, but more targets. Is that in any way overpowered? No, it is not.

 

Regards,

Kalantris

Edited February 13, 2012 by Kalantris

[Noollig]

When a group of sorcs are chain rooting you in huttball, it's pretty obvious why they're OP.

[Elrathion]

When a group of sorcs are chain rooting you in huttball, it's pretty obvious why they're OP.

 

When a group of sorc are chain rooting you in hutball, it's pretty obvious why you cry nerf [cse you can't tunnelvision kill and it pisses you off, cse your entire joy revolves around OMG I KILLED SOMEONE, OMG, CRIT HAHAHA]...

 

Something anoying isn't lethal ya know! Every warzone usually 3 marauders chain jump me, I know root is frustrating

[xakto]

Really people? Really? 79 pages of the same content that makes up 85% of this forum? why would you feed the trolls 79 pages of this?

[Zlashie]

Clear analysis doesn't make him right, you can present a case from a number of angles (that is what lawyers do). I disagree with it simply because the top tier talents for sorc/sage are comepletley bollocks. This is why that hybrid spec is popular. The "tons of cc" is hardly game-breaking since all have long cooldowns (and only root is unaffected by resolve)and Iam sick to death of explaining to people why the class has the utility it does. A sorc/sage knows their strengths and weaknesses. That others don't is not my problem, the devs know also, and will adjust accordingly in time, if any changes are needed.

 

I applaud the OP for trying to make his argument in a concise manner and at least back it up with solid information though. This is the sort of post i don't object to because it is done without making stuff up, and he is not discrediting himself. I just disagree with it really, the bottom line is - sorc/sage are not impossible to kill - smart players know what they do, and know how to counter them.

 

I play a sage at battlemaster rank, I've met many other battlemasters from different classes and I don't see them having a problem really, soon as they spot a dps sage or healer - he gets focused or nuked down like he is made of paper.

Ye he will use force speed (counter root, not affected by resolve) and any decent player wil expect it - i mean I keep seeing people describe exactly what sorc sages do (more or less exgerrated but get the gist of it), so my question is, what are the players that complain doing about it?

 

Here is what you can do to counter some of our key abilities. (to those how claim you cannot)

 

Force speed - Use a root. Not hard this ablitity is 2 seconds long, about right imo. Any longer then yes I would say nerf. Any shorter pointless.

 

Tele throw - interupt bang bang. This is gaining me force while im using it and setting up a good proc for damage, it is also snaring the opponent, not rooting them. If i see a simlilar specced sage/or sorc i interupt it, and it gives me the drop 99 percent of the time if Iam on similar health, to set up my proc or dot them or whatever.

 

Shield, "takes forever to knock down" - absolute crap it takes a second or two at the most, you cannot reapply for 20 SECONDS. It can be used to give you a second to survive a crit, or get a fast heal off if your lucky. It's also very useful to help protect team mates and get a vital save on them, so you should know how useful it is.

It is absolutley nothing like a paladins bubble, this is just complete *********.

 

Heals - this is the funniest one if he is dps specced and you cannot interupt a sorc or sage healing you are just awflul. Its not that much harder if he is a healer (mark him and tell ur team to nuke him?). No dps specced sage has imba heals, this is just lies or misinformation. Dont use a big cc to lock them out for a while on them straight way, if they break this they will more than likely have full resolve and you cant stun them or anything, its fine to use when they are nearly dead tho.

Wait for their first big heal, interupt right near the end of the cast, when they cast their second, leap/grapple/pull, knockback anything to interupt it. Last time stun them. Works for me. You can always tell their heals by the green bar. By the fourth heal he should be dead or you have your interupt up again. If their healing dots are outhealing your damage, you are bloody terrible, simple as that.

Key thing is you are a team, if your the only one focusing the healer then your team is basically ****.

 

Knockback? You get knocked back, who doesnt? Not much you can do about it other than be smart where you position yourself. Our knockback has two purposes, to stop us getting swarmed by melee (big hint there) and to knock people off the edges of stuff or into fire. Big deal. You can put points into rooting everyone else, which is useful in huttball - me personally i dont care about them getting rid of the root aspect. The knockback is enough.

 

Dots if your dotted you can be undotted, but thats a teamplay issue. The dots dont tick for alot unless its mind crush + weaken mind, but an instant mind crush proc can only come from letting them spam telethrow or lightning. If they are slow casting mind crush it takes a while, so it can be interupted in numerous ways, or line of sighted.

 

Line of sight

 

Pretty easy to negate range damage by using the environment. If your a shadow or asssasin you can negate ranged damage through an ability, not sure about tanks and melee but id bet there are similar options.

 

Gap closers

 

This is also an interupt. Pulls, leaps whatever are all the equivalent of force speed. Sages have force speed because they wear light armor, and need to be mobile to heal their team-mates and escape melee (crikey who would of thought we need to run wearing cloth), or gain a useful position in cover from which we can throw out sustained damage and decent procs. Alot of classes have simliar things, be it being able to stealth to get out of trouble, or leaping across the map on huttball to score.

 

Rescue.

This is used to pull people out of fire, out of being zerged, unto platforms in huttball etc. Very useful in pvp and pve, long cooldown. One of my favourites because its funny to see people leaping backwards out of danger.

 

Sever force

 

Fairly decent root, good for keeping melee at bay, does a small amount of damage , not affected by resolve. However if you are using the hybrid spec the OP describes, no one has an accurate single target root at all. You cannot have a ranged root that snares one target and run that hybrid spec.

 

Force stun

 

4 seconds and a moderate amount of damage, long cooldown

 

Force lift

 

Locks a target out of the fight, for a while. If your team is stupid they will just shoot the thing you cced that was causing problems (most of the time someone does this), or he breaks the cc - now he has full resolve, and you cant stun him. Use this wisely, like over fire pits in huttball (this can stop them scoring), or only if you have no choice e.g he is a healer who is about to save someone from dying with one heal.

 

We do have a ranged snare, that can slow people down and healers can spec into using weaken mind as a snare, but they need that imo, they dont have any root at all.

 

Conclusion

 

If you let me chain telethrow, use weaken mind, project and proc mind crush and proc telewave at the back, untouched then I will do crazy damage. If your smart, 2-3 players jump me im dead, I try to shield and run and im doing no damage to anyone. If im lucky i might stun one, lift the other and run to gain a bit of time, but that is dependent on my abilities not being on cooldown and more often than not im buying myself time.

If there is more of my class, then work out which is the healer. If theres three healers, good luck. If there are lot of sorc and sage on the other team your in trouble. But that gos for mercs/commandos, shadows, etc.

 

Thats it really. Point is all classes have tools they can use to cc, do good damage, shield themselves or stealth, they all have something that others do not. I could go on about how unfair it is in xx situation with xx class but I do not understand the mechanics of every classs in the game, and would refrain from saying xx class needs a nerf when I havent even played it.

 

Fair points made OP, I just disagree with them.

 

Thank you for that brilliant responce. its rare to see people be respectful on these forums

 

I think the problem really lies that the sage/sorc is the best anti-melee class in the game, and because 5/8 adv.classes are melee and because the average WZs has atleast 3+ Sorc/Sages, it becomes a huge frustration for most dpsers in this game.

 

Ofcourse there is probably a melee class which ranged feels are way too good for them to handle. Im not sure I can tell.

 

So all in all it boils down to a few problems with some classes left in the dark while other classes can more easily counter said problem.

 

Another reason why melee classes feel so left in the shadow, is because that every class and their mothers dog has a knockback so you end up roleplaying a tennisball.

 

The only reason melee (and me personally) pick on sages/sorc is because they come out at the strongest and worst possible frustration to encounter in a warzone. I must admit I agree with the OP. I think the Sage/Sorc has too much utility. One can argue that without the utility they are not much.

 

I have made a similar thread myself were I concluded that the problem was the fact that resolve doesnt affect rooting and that rooting is as crucial for a melee as stun is to a ranged.

 

The problem again is that some classes can counter this whilst others cannot. For instance a scoundrel who is rooted and who does not have evasion/vanish ready is dead meat whilst a marauder/sentinel has his charge to rely on. Small differences like that is what is causing this frustration I think.

 

For me I get frustrated as a scoundrel because I so often end up in 1v1 situations against sorcs were I am powerless. Because every warzone has a gazillion sorcs and because of that all my stuff is almost always on CD which means I am a pretty useless asset to the team itself.

 

-Z

[Darth_Eclipses]

Overall I feel you're really downplaying the damage of the Sorcerer and might have lower end gear as far as the bubble absorption amount goes. The burst bit you're taking out of context. That was put in the OP as a response to a long argument about Sorcerer burst earlier in the thread.

 

Nope, BM, with over 500 exp, full champion with a few BM pieces.

 

PvE wise I sit in full Columi mixed with about 5 Rakata pieces, some pieces slotted with lvl 58 mods.

 

Our shield will only absorb ~3.2k max.

 

I've been playing Sorc/Sage since beta and I have tested my shields strength thoroughly in terms of how to optimize it. You, on the other hand, have read some thing, some where (you can't remember where), that some sorc might have said some thing - and you are claiming my gear / research is faulty.

 

See where I'm going with this?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Darth_Eclipses

[EscVelocity]

Thanks for doing your homework before making a justified request regarding sorcs.

 

I've been playing one on the side and it's insane how easily OP they are with the hybrid spec compared to other 50's.

[da_krall]

i love this thread, because the OP is a marauder, and apparently there is a consensus on the pvp forums that sorc/sage are overpowered and marauders are underpowered.

 

 

This is how stupid these forums are, they can get something this backasswards.

Edited February 13, 2012 by da_krall

[da_krall]

When a group of sorcs are chain rooting you in huttball, it's pretty obvious why they're OP.

 

Yeah because they dont have a root unless they are 31pt madness spec otherwise its just a slow. They have the KB one, if talented, but that also builds reslove.

Edited February 13, 2012 by da_krall

[Nazutron]

Varicite =) Seriusly no point wasting your energi on Tumri. The guy cant play and think out of the box like the other poor ******* that get killed by sorcs/sages. Players that cant play smart make these kind of topics =)

 

Respect to you for trying Varicite =) To many blind players in swtor. It looks good on paper, but not op in game hybrid spec.

 

Its really simple play smart, think out of the box and focus on them all the time = worthless sorcs/sages =)

[Tumri]

Varicite =) Seriusly no point wasting your energi on Tumri. The guy cant play and think out of the box like the other poor ******* that get killed by sorcs/sages. Players that cant play smart make these kind of topics =)

 

Respect to you for trying Varicite =) To many blind players in swtor. It looks good on paper, but not op in game hybrid spec.

 

Its really simple play smart, think out of the box and focus on them all the time = worthless sorcs/sages =)

 

Read pages... I think 1-30? For various small back and forth discussions about my credibility and my personal skill. I do not get killed very often by Sorcs/Sages. This does not change the fact that their utility/CC/escapability is overpowered in the hybrid spec I am advocating against.

 

Read the entire OP.

[zaltanus]

I have a sorc and an op and i've found the best way to kill a sorc/sage is stunlocking. Not difficult- just watch their resolve tick and use your stuns accordingly. Playing my sorc, i've also felt the stun lock effect with the fury of 1000 suns. Keep stuns up- watch their resolve ticks, make sure you don't max their resolve unless you've got them under 25% (or some killable percentage) and you've got yourself some dead sorc/sages. Also, for people less on the stuns, give interrupt a try every once in a while. Sorcs only about 2 instant casts (one of which is a knockback) so keeping your interrupts on CD is also key.

 

Oh screw it what am I saying? OMG SORC BAD MIRITE U GUYZZZ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? USED TO BE OPS BUT NOW SORCS!!!!! NERFITY NERF NERF NERF!!!1!1!!!!11!

 

For everyone that will BLARGLBLARGL about op-ness and ignore what I said, here's a picture of cute kittens to calm you down.

[Qanlayeni]

I am a 3/7/31 sage rank 65 and i still own.

[me_unknown]

Read pages... I think 1-30? For various small back and forth discussions about my credibility and my personal skill. I do not get killed very often by Sorcs/Sages. This does not change the fact that their utility/CC/escapability is overpowered in the hybrid spec I am advocating against.

 

Read the entire OP.

 

mind telling what exactly increases the utilities so much for a hybrid? compared to a pure build of the two damage trees?

 

i see only one single root at the end of the knockback together with the isntant made maze (which also gets a 2sec stunn when broken). and i actually do not see this overpowered but quite needed.

 

a pure build has one of them.

Edited February 13, 2012 by me_unknown

[Varicite]

Read pages... I think 1-30? For various small back and forth discussions about my credibility and my personal skill. I do not get killed very often by Sorcs/Sages. This does not change the fact that their utility/CC/escapability is overpowered in the hybrid spec I am advocating against.

 

Read the entire OP.

 

I've read pages 1-80 of this thread.

 

Your arguments have been chock full of fallacies, which I have tried to point out to you time and again.

 

Your point of view is simply skewed, and no amount of real data concerning Sorc potential and limitations seems to be able to get through to you; at this point, I'm considering you a lost cause.

 

It's one thing if you don't understand the mechanics of the game, but when numerous people have told you that you think Sorcs can do a lot of things that are simply impossible in the current game confines, and you continue to bullheadedly stick to your fallacies, then you quite simply wish to remain ignorant of the truth.

 

Your description of what a Sorc might be able to do against my class in combat shows just how little you know of Resolve mechanics, the Sorc abilities themselves, and the limitations of the class that you have decided to crusade against.

 

The people agreeing with you have also mostly shown an intrinsic lack of knowledge of Sorc abilities and how they function, so it's quite understandable that they might feel the class is OP. Anything seems OP when you don't know what you're doing.

 

I've tried to say that time and again, but you would rather just ask for the hybrid spec to be destroyed than actually learn how to fight against it.

 

And somehow that doesn't seem asinine to you. /shrug

 

If you want anyone to acknowledge your credibility on the matter, this is probably NOT the thread to show them.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Varicite

[Rhazesx]

mind telling what exactly increases the utilities so much for a hybrid? compared to a pure build of the two damage trees?

 

i see only one single root at the end of the knockback together with the isntant made maze (which also gets a 2sec stunn when broken). and i actually do not see this overpowered but quite needed.

 

a pure build has one of them.

 

Well the OP is entitled to fast free kills, and the hybrid specs takes him a little longer to kill.

 

https://imgur.com/a/P3lM4#0

 

Take a look at these images to see how OP Sorcerers are.

 

Or one of the dozens of videos like this with Marauders laughing at how they just love sorcerers.

 

Edited February 13, 2012 by Rhazesx

[da_krall]

Read pages... I think 1-30? For various small back and forth discussions about my credibility and my personal skill. I do not get killed very often by Sorcs/Sages. This does not change the fact that their utility/CC/escapability is overpowered in the hybrid spec I am advocating against.

 

Read the entire OP.

 

You make your 'facts' up. You get the abilites wrong, you dont know what you are talking about.

[Hellion_X]

This Tumri guy plays a Marauder and thinks Sorcs are OP...LOL. You claim to be good at your Marauder, if you truly are then you should know that we are definitely the most OP class and eat sorcs/sages all day long. Any good Marauder/Sentinel will agree with me or anyone who has been melted from a good one too. Edited February 13, 2012 by Hellion_X

[Nikkiree]

To the OP, here is a screen shot of me owning you!

 

http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/56885/Owning_You.jpg

 

OMG Abadus

I found another pic of you owning these scrubs, lol:

 

http://i43.tinypic.com/21140ma.jpg

 

Most of these people are such bads

Ura a good