Sonic Barrier moderate amount of dmg?

[Helig]

Intercede lasts 6sec, wouldn't you need to use it off every CD to be effective? Melee partner would risk getting cleaved. I'd probably save it before big hits (Foreman Crusher or one of Gharj's jumps springs to mind), rather than spamming it off CD.

 

If you were to talent Vengeance (Force scream -3sec), you would have a bubble every 9 sec; would this not balance out with a 20% dmg reduction?

 

I'd love to play around and try something new, but I'm not sure how I could test it properly. Could anyone else give me some feedback please?

 

The absorb bubble is useless. 1500-1700 is virtually nothing. At least in hardmode raids. Even without Intercede damage reduction 4% passive energy\kinetic mitigation is very solid.

 

Exchanging 4% damage resistance, 4% stamina and Impale (amazing contribution to aggro, plus, in case of 14\27 near-autocrit on finisher\Scream) for, lol, 1700 bubble every 9 sec is... illogical, to say the least.

 

 

 

The best way to determine the playstyle best-suited for you is to try it out yourself. Full Immortal is, by no means, useless. For general-purpose tanking, I'd take full Immortal, because it's more well-rounded for general-purpose tanking. I'd also consider it for PvP, because a lot of stuns in organized groups=awesome. For boss tanking, however, Veng hybrids win hands down.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Helig

[Sykomyke]

Sonic Barrier is totally worth the talent points the 4 piece tier set gives u an extra 20% making it go up to 40% so now instead of absorbing a 1.2k hit ur absorbing a 2.4 thats amazing especially if u know the boss is enraging or hitting harder that one absorbed hit could be just enough for the healers heal too go off before u die so yea totally worth taking it No CONTEST!

 

This is completely and totally wrong.

 

Sonic Barrier does not have an inital percent. All that set bonus does is make the value of sonic barrier increase by 20% upon generation.

 

For example: If your sonic barrier shields for 1000 damage, with the 4 piece set bonus it will shield for 1200.

 

1.2x=Sonic Barrier Amount|||where x=initial value.

 

Not sure where you got the idea that 20% would double the value of it.

[Webel]

This is completely and totally wrong.

 

Sonic Barrier does not have an inital percent. All that set bonus does is make the value of sonic barrier increase by 20% upon generation.

 

For example: If your sonic barrier shields for 1000 damage, with the 4 piece set bonus it will shield for 1200.

 

1.2x=Sonic Barrier Amount|||where x=initial value.

 

Not sure where you got the idea that 20% would double the value of it.

 

You sir are correct I misread the skill completly still think its worth it tho!

[Tankshoes]

The absorb bubble is useless. 1500-1700 is virtually nothing.

 

According to this post that was linked earlier, the forumla is:

 

1161.94 + 3.27 * Force Healing Bonus = bubble

 

To be honest, I have no idea where those numbers have come from, as I can't find any values on torhead, but if it's correct, I believe my bubble is worth 2076.

 

For me, the question is if 4% per hit totals the same damage or more as what I could potentially absorb with the bubble.

 

As Force Scream is a 12sec CD untalented, and Deafening Defense reduces 4% on all damage, I'm pretty sure the boss would have to hit me 8 times in 12 seconds, for 6500 each, to cover the same amount of damage in what 1 bubble would take.

 

6500 * 0.04 * 8 = 2080.

 

I just tanked Kaon with the build suggested. I'm not all that sure about the threat but if anything, I just felt spiky when taking damage.

 

edit:

 

The only place I can see it being great is Foreman Crusher's 20hit frenzy.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Tankshoes

[Helig]

According to this post that was linked earlier, the forumla is:

 

1161.94 + 3.27 * Force Healing Bonus = bubble

 

To be honest, I have no idea where those numbers have come from, as I can't find any values on torhead, but if it's correct, I believe my bubble is worth 2076.

 

For me, the question is if 4% per hit totals the same damage or more as what I could potentially absorb with the bubble.

 

As Force Scream is a 12sec CD untalented, and Deafening Defense reduces 4% on all damage, I'm pretty sure the boss would have to hit me 8 times in 12 seconds, for 6500 each, to cover the same amount of damage in what 1 bubble would take.

 

6500 * 0.04 * 8 = 2080.

 

I just tanked Kaon with the build suggested. I'm not all that sure about the threat but if anything, I just felt spiky when taking damage.

 

edit:

 

The only place I can see it being great is Foreman Crusher's 20hit frenzy.

 

Don'cha use your fancy mathematics to mudden the issue!

 

On the more serious note, if you look at the greater picture, the tiny absorb shield doesn't do much. We also need to take into account MT buffs from other healers, like Sage\Sorc shields, armour rating buffs from Mercs\Commandos and Sages\Sorcs. Stacking %% mitigation scales way better than flat amounts absorbed.

 

If the bubble scaled better, I'd regard it seriously. Right now, it scales through secondary and tertiary stats (Str=>FP=>FH and Power=>FH) with a rather questionable 3.24 (or 3.27 - different sources, I guess) coefficient. Now then, if it scaled with total HP and could be further buffed with talents to act as aftereffect mitigation after the bubble was "bursted", I'd call it excellent design.

 

But now, it's rather "meh".

Edited February 7, 2012 by Helig

[Tankshoes]

I can see it being more useful with lots of high damage going on throughout (like a frenzy or berserk), rather than soaking one hit and being naked for the remainder. I will give it a try out during our next raid.

 

Cheers for the feedback.

[nRGon]

Yes Sir, as stated in other posts of me. Quake helps you with protecting your allies, Free Force Scream doesn't!

 

Haha, sorry I don't go around reading all your posts, nice try though. <3

 

Anyway, I see your point and dropped Crash and all but 1 point in Battle Cry.

Edited February 8, 2012 by nRGon

[meshade]

Someone said here something about saving intercede for frenzy on crusher.

 

I'd like to see that on nightmare when basically he then just insta kills the person you intercede (or a group of them if they close). Would be totally funny tho:

 

"Hey guys frenzy is on, gonna just intercede you, sup you dead bro"

[Tankshoes]

Was pointing out when it'd be useful (a frenzy in general, or any big hit, such as when Gharj jumps to next platform, you could intercede someone just before he lands and stuns you), and not necessarily that boss on that attack.

[meshade]

I know, I know - I am tank myself, just thought it would be pretty funny for the sake of getting that tiny buff.

 

And let's be realistic here, there is no encounter that utilizes the 'one big hit' that needs to lowered by those buffs.

 

The intercede, force charge buffs last for 4 secs, that is actually 2 secs considering GCD and time u get back on boss and bosses do not hit hard on jugg.

 

Also we got our 'oh crap' button for those funny situations were dps fails and needs healin or lets boss enrage.

[Helig]

I can see it being more useful with lots of high damage going on throughout (like a frenzy or berserk), rather than soaking one hit and being naked for the remainder. I will give it a try out during our next raid.

 

Cheers for the feedback.

 

Essentially the absorb shield adds a flat bonus to HPS on you. And adds a rather miserable amount, too. Around 140-ish HPS, if I'm not mistaken. If 140 HPS contributes to your survival in a noticeable manner, you should fire your healers.

 

The bubble doesn't scale well not only with your stats, but also with content. Which is why it needs to be buffed badly.

 

Also, Revenge is near-useless on caster fights. And that's truly a shame for Immortal rotations. Had a lot more fun on Soa as Vig\Veng hybrid tank.

 

Bottomline - Defense\Immortal needs a revamp. Bad.

[Crymson-Raider]

So you swapped 4% shield chance and a dmg bubble... for a pretty animation for tanking?

 

umadbro?

 

Go back and read the 1-7 of the reasons why i switched. Didnt change it for the animation...but it does more damage than takiing immortal tree and also just as well in tanking if not better. Any how exactly was i "madbro" in my comments to the OP. Just showing my experience with the jugg.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Crymson-Raider

[thorizdin]

Essentially the absorb shield adds a flat bonus to HPS on you. And adds a rather miserable amount, too. Around 140-ish HPS, if I'm not mistaken. If 140 HPS contributes to your survival in a noticeable manner, you should fire your healers.

 

The bubble doesn't scale well not only with your stats, but also with content. Which is why it needs to be buffed badly.

 

Which bubble are you talking about? The one from Sonic Barrier gives ~1,400 HP at level 50 with the set bonus.

[Onostoolan]

Go back and read the 1-7 of the reasons why i switched. Didnt change it for the animation...but it does more damage than takiing immortal tree and also just as well in tanking if not better. Any how exactly was i "madbro" in my comments to the OP. Just showing my experience with the jugg.

 

I'm interested in giving the other spec a go... I've read around the pro's and cons of both specs (Immortal vs. Hybrid) - and the main thing I'm concerned about is the rage-gen.

 

To be fair, the last time I tried this out I was level 40 - so didn't have the full hybrid spec benefits... but I felt SO rage starved. I've tanked in Immortal... and I like the feel... but I'm not 100% convinced if this is the best for me or not.

 

Would you mind letting me nkow your rotation... how you make the mitigation work for you etc. I'm definitely interested in giving this another shot... love the idea of a stronger threat (if that is indeed the case)... but concerned about the rage-gen and the level of mitigation - do I need to be WELL geared for this to work for me? (I'm a fresh 50 really)

 

Cheers

[thorizdin]

You should probably read this before making that jump:

 

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Immortal-Defense-Compendium-A-Tank-s-Guide-To-The-Galaxy?pid=10239#pid10239

[Onostoolan]

You should probably read this before making that jump:

 

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Immortal-Defense-Compendium-A-Tank-s-Guide-To-The-Galaxy?pid=10239#pid10239

 

Yeh TY..I read that one on my travels.

 

TBH I'm not the most experienced Jugg tank yet... just starting out in 50s HMs - so I should probably have patience lol. Didn't have a particulartly bad experience last night in my HM BT ... went well overall...so I should probably get more experience before jumping specs I guess..

 

Having said that - I'm dying to spec into Unstoppable (hate leaping in only to get smacked down) ... but not sure how much of an impact it would have on my thtreat (losing out on Crushing blow)

 

any thoughts?

[Helig]

You should probably read this before making that jump:

 

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Immortal-Defense-Compendium-A-Tank-s-Guide-To-The-Galaxy?pid=10239#pid10239

 

Great read, actually. Thanks.

[Tankshoes]

I read the post on Sith Warrior and, imo, even just as a theorycraft with his manufactured example boss, the post is retarded.

 

Right now, I'm torn between DR4% and 4% shield chance from Shield Specialization, with this. It's probably a bit of an abomination of a spec but, I find the dmg that could potentially be absorbed from the shield of more use than DR4% from Deafening Defense.

[Layotees]

It's essential to an effective immortal build.

 

At level 50, it'll absorb just under 1.2k, that's a good sized hit, and almost 10% of your health when you hit fresh 50. In my opinion, it is most valuable because of the control you have. It's not a proc, it's a result of casting force scream. If you know something big is coming, you can pop it.

 

You must have a ridiculous amount of power on your tanking gear.

 

I'm in 3/5 Rakata and with the pve set bonus the barrier absorbs ~850. This is after extensive testing of it's strength in a controlled environment.

[Layotees]

What people need to realize is you can't trust the numbers you see flying over your head.

 

If one attack hits you for more than Sonic Barrier will absorb, the only message you get is the ABSORB. You still lose the remainder of health.

 

The person doing damage to you sees both of these numbers, the ABSORBED warning and however much damage they did to you.

 

Sonic Barrier does not absorb for 1.5k, it does not absorb for 2k. In tanking gear, with the set bonus for 20%, it absorbs just under 900.

[thorizdin]

You must have a ridiculous amount of power on your tanking gear.

 

I'm in 3/5 Rakata and with the pve set bonus the barrier absorbs ~850. This is after extensive testing of it's strength in a controlled environment.

 

Your test methodology is off somehow then. Its definitely ~1200 for a fresh level 50 with no set bonus.

[thorizdin]

 

Sonic Barrier does not absorb for 1.5k, it does not absorb for 2k. In tanking gear, with the set bonus for 20%, it absorbs just under 900.

 

You're right about the Absorb message, but you're completely wrong on the amount. I've tested it in PvE (as controlled as possible) and PvP(completely controlled with a guildie helping) and the numbers reliable. ~1200 for a brand new level 50 with 126 rated oranges.

 

I'm on Helm of Graush is anyone(especially people who think SB does less than 1200) wants to retest let me know. My main's name is the same as my forum handle. If BW ever gets a character copy tool for PTS this kind of cooperative testing will be much easier.

Edited February 8, 2012 by thorizdin

[Layotees]

You're right about the Absorb message, but you're completely wrong on the amount. I've tested it in PvE (as controlled as possible) and PvP(completely controlled with a guildie helping) and the numbers reliable. ~1200 for a brand new level 50 with 126 rated oranges.

 

I'm on Helm of Graush is anyone(especially people who think SB does less than 1200) wants to retest let me know. My main's name is the same as my forum handle. If BW ever gets a character copy tool for PTS this kind of cooperative testing will be much easier.

 

I just got on live and tested this with a bounty hunter friend, since Tracer Missile can't be deflected.

 

Non crit Tracer hit me for 1470. Then we waited for my armor debuff to reset, healed back to full, and we did it again with my proccing Sonic Barrier. I lost 610 health off a non crit tracer missile.

 

We tested this over and over again and the amount of damage my sonic barrier is absorbing in almost a complete set of best in slot gear is just under 900 damage.

 

You are talking out of your ***.

 

Edit: We tested again with him taking off enough gear that his tracer missile non crit hit in the mid 800s, critting in the low 1400s. With Sonic Barrier up, non crits would hit me for less than 50, crits would hit me in the high 500s / low 600s.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Layotees

[thorizdin]

The only way this is accurate is if they changed it in last two weeks. Its been tested extensively by lots of people over here:

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Archive-Immortal-Juggernaut-SW-Defense-Guardian-JK-Compendium

 

I tested it in Smugglers Den and we used the Power Tech short range fire attack and the numbers were consistent (~1200 for a new level 50 with no set bonus armor at all). I will retest, but I'm inclined to think you have something you're not controlling for (like the debuff icon not matching when the debuff actually goes away). Using elemental or internal damage is the right idea to avoid having to figure out the base absorption affect, but I don't understand what this, "a complete set of best in slot gear is just under 900 damage." means. You don't need a complete set, the bonus for Sonic Barrier is 4 pieces and your mouse over will show whether you have enough or not. In any case I'd advise taking all of the set armor off completely so we don't have to account for those numbers either. (Its not inconceivable that a decimal place is off one or more of the sets and that's actually lowering the amount of the buff. The difference between a 1.25 modifier and .125 is huge.)

[Layotees]

The only way this is accurate is if they changed it in last two weeks. Its been tested extensively by lots of people over here:

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Archive-Immortal-Juggernaut-SW-Defense-Guardian-JK-Compendium

 

I tested it in Smugglers Den and we used the Power Tech short range fire attack and the numbers were consistent (~1200 for a new level 50 with no set bonus armor at all). I will retest, but I'm inclined to think you have something you're not controlling for (like the debuff icon not matching when the debuff actually goes away). Using elemental or internal damage is the right idea to avoid having to figure out the base absorption affect, but I don't understand what this, "a complete set of best in slot gear is just under 900 damage." means. You don't need a complete set, the bonus for Sonic Barrier is 4 pieces and your mouse over will show whether you have enough or not. In any case I'd advise taking all of the set armor off completely so we don't have to account for those numbers either. (Its not inconceivable that a decimal place is off one or more of the sets and that's actually lowering the amount of the buff. The difference between a 1.25 modifier and .125 is huge.)

 

Bringing up my gear is just as relevant as you bringing up yours. People in this thread and in that thread have been tossing around theories as to what this shield scales with. It stands to reason that if it scales with anything that in my gear it will absorb more than yours will.

 

I tested with and without the set bonus. The set bonus is working fine; it adds 20%. My ~850 shields are much closer to 700.

 

Also, I have read that thread. Have you? There are no references to the exact damage Sonic Barrier absorbs other than someone pointing out that at level 40 it absorbs 5-600 damage on page 10.

 

Edit: THIS thread: http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Immortal-Defense-Compendium-A-Tank-s-Guide-To-The-Galaxy Speaks of a definitive value for Sonic Barrier listed at roughly 1200. However, it was last changed over a month ago, and there's absolutely no reference to tests done to confirm those numbers.

 

I have tested these numbers today as well as two other times in the last three weeks and I can tell you it has not at any time absorbed more than 1000 damage for me, with or without sorc buffs for bonus willpower or 4 piece War Leader gear.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Layotees