The Biochem Changes (A Call to Arms)

[Choukyuudan]

This may well get me banned from the forums. However, it must be said. I remember the early days of WoW when Warriors' cries about broken rage mechanics fell on deaf ears. To force Blizzard to listen, they actually crashed a server. Consequently, Blizzard made changes that addressed their issues at the time. Now, I'm not urging anyone to crash a server. Since, I don't believe things have come to that. Instead, I'm urging everyone upset with Biochem to simply drop Biochem and not pick up a new crew skill. Bioware claims that they know everything that occurs in their game. Well, if they're truly about balance then they'll be forced to address Biochems' concerns if there are next to no Biochems in the game. Moreover, a dearth of Biochems may even rally others to the cause. Since, there won't be any medpacks, adrenals, or stims for sale on the GTN either.

 

So, what is it that I, and hopefully others, want changed about the impending nerf?

1) Nerf Rakata adrenals and stims to be reusable versions of Exotech ones not Energized.

2) While doing the former, change the other reusable adrenals, stims, and medpacks to be equal in effect to blue ones rather than green ones.

3) Change the BoP items from other crafts to require skill in the crafts that produced them.

 

Bioware's stated intent for Biochem is for it to be about cost-savings over time. The above accomplishes this, since the Biochem medpacks, adrenals, and stims will be identical in effect to the ones other players can acquire, except for being reusable. Thus, Biochems won't be any stronger. They will simply be more cost-effective. If their stated nerf goes through, the only savings for Biochems will be those yielded from self-crafting versus buying on the (inflated) GTN, which won't be as much as some think when one considers time spent farming materials and even crafting (even though companions do the crafting, that's time that the player can't use one or more companions, which in turn may restrict the player's ability to participate in other activities in the game).

[jHats]

This may well get me banned from the forums. However, it must be said. I remember the early days of WoW when Warriors' cries about broken rage mechanics fell on deaf ears. To force Blizzard to listen, they actually crashed a server. Consequently, Blizzard made changes that addressed their issues at the time. Now, I'm not urging anyone to crash a server. Since, I don't believe things have come to that. Instead, I'm urging everyone upset with Biochem to simply drop Biochem and not pick up a new crew skill. Bioware claims that they know everything that occurs in their game. Well, if they're truly about balance then they'll be forced to address Biochems' concerns if there are next to no Biochems in the game. Moreover, a dearth of Biochems may even rally others to the cause. Since, there won't be any medpacks, adrenals, or stims for sale on the GTN either.

 

So, what is it that I, and hopefully others, want changed about the impending nerf?

1) Nerf Rakata adrenals and stims to be reusable versions of Exotech ones not Energized.

2) While doing the former, change the other reusable adrenals, stims, and medpacks to be equal in effect to blue ones rather than green ones.

3) Change the BoP items from other crafts to require skill in the crafts that produced them.

 

Bioware's stated intent for Biochem is for it to be about cost-savings over time. The above accomplishes this, since the Biochem medpacks, adrenals, and stims will be identical in effect to the ones other players can acquire, except for being reusable. Thus, Biochems won't be any stronger. They will simply be more cost-effective. If their stated nerf goes through, the only savings for Biochems will be those yielded from self-crafting versus buying on the (inflated) GTN, which won't be as much as some think when one considers time spent farming materials and even crafting (even though companions do the crafting, that's time that the player can't use one or more companions, which in turn may restrict the player's ability to participate in other activities in the game).

 

Biochem shouldn't be ANY stronger. You don't see other professions having Rakata gear with +10 more to every stat do you? No, you don't. Biochem hands down has a bigger advantage than any other profession right now.

 

Bioware is absolutely moving in the right direction with this. It should be about saving money, not being so much better than everyone else.

[Choukyuudan]

Did you read what I typed? Clearly you didn't. You assumed that I'm clamoring for reusable pots to be better than consumed ones. However, I didn't type that. I implore you to actually take the time to read what I wrote rather than make false assumptions.

[Varturius]

This may well get me banned from the forums. However, it must be said. I remember the early days of WoW when Warriors' cries about broken rage mechanics fell on deaf ears. To force Blizzard to listen, they actually crashed a server. Consequently, Blizzard made changes that addressed their issues at the time. Now, I'm not urging anyone to crash a server. Since, I don't believe things have come to that. Instead, I'm urging everyone upset with Biochem to simply drop Biochem and not pick up a new crew skill. Bioware claims that they know everything that occurs in their game. Well, if they're truly about balance then they'll be forced to address Biochems' concerns if there are next to no Biochems in the game. Moreover, a dearth of Biochems may even rally others to the cause. Since, there won't be any medpacks, adrenals, or stims for sale on the GTN either.

 

So, what is it that I, and hopefully others, want changed about the impending nerf?

1) Nerf Rakata adrenals and stims to be reusable versions of Exotech ones not Energized.

2) While doing the former, change the other reusable adrenals, stims, and medpacks to be equal in effect to blue ones rather than green ones.

3) Change the BoP items from other crafts to require skill in the crafts that produced them.

 

Bioware's stated intent for Biochem is for it to be about cost-savings over time. The above accomplishes this, since the Biochem medpacks, adrenals, and stims will be identical in effect to the ones other players can acquire, except for being reusable. Thus, Biochems won't be any stronger. They will simply be more cost-effective. If their stated nerf goes through, the only savings for Biochems will be those yielded from self-crafting versus buying on the (inflated) GTN, which won't be as much as some think when one considers time spent farming materials and even crafting (even though companions do the crafting, that's time that the player can't use one or more companions, which in turn may restrict the player's ability to participate in other activities in the game).

 

There aren't any now, 80+% of my server at 50 is biochem. (ok a complete guesstimation, but I'm probably not that far off)

 

This whole crafting system is just plain stupid. To currently min/max you level synth/armor to 400 for the belt/bracers with augment slots, then drop it for artifice for relics with slots, then back to biochem. Hey Bioware where's the crafting 400 requirement for those???

 

Balancing crafting bonuses should be among the easiest things to do with a game. Not only did they drop the ball at launch, but they just keep being lazy about it and nerf the one that makes the quietest sucking sound.

[darkdraman]

Interesting idea, but ever think that BW might be more focused with the problems that aren't allowing subscribers to play right now? I'm all for balancing the crew skills, but I think they should and do have a sense of priority about all of their bugs right now, and this isn't currently at the top. I would think that this may be one of the first things they would fix, once the rest of the game is stabilized.

 

What you and several other people don't realize is that this game has barely been out for more than a month, there is no way they are going to have the game perfectly balanced and optimized. While there is Alpha and Beta testing, there are some things you just can't test for, and some things that you just don't encounter till launch. I'm sure they are doing there best to fix what they can as fast as they can. That's why they're having these staggered down times: to fix problems. While the down time frustrates me, I understand that its what they can do to fix things as fast as possible.

[jHats]

Did you read what I typed? Clearly you didn't. You assumed that I'm clamoring for reusable pots to be better than consumed ones. However, I didn't type that. I implore you to actually take the time to read what I wrote rather than make false assumptions.

 

I definitely read it and I've just read it again.

 

1. You are crazy if you think that people are going to drop Biochem in some silly crusade.

2. You are saying "downgrade" everything. This accomplishes nothing.

 

Bottom line is, is that Rakata should have been brought in line from the start. The stims shouldn't give 30 + more primary stat and +10 more secondary, period. These have been brought in line but they are reusable. The end. You are more than welcome to go with no profession and gimp yourself, but you'll be the only one lol.

[jHats]

There aren't any now, 80+% of my server at 50 is biochem. (ok a complete guesstimation, but I'm probably not that far off)

 

This whole crafting system is just plain stupid. To currently min/max you level synth/armor to 400 for the belt/bracers with augment slots, then drop it for artifice for relics with slots, then back to biochem. Hey Bioware where's the crafting 400 requirement for those???

 

Balancing crafting bonuses should be among the easiest things to do with a game. Not only did they drop the ball at launch, but they just keep being lazy about it and nerf the one that makes the quietest sucking sound.

 

I agree 110% that the crafted pieces players make at 400 (the rakata) should be renamed but keep the same stats and be made "requires 400 of x skill to use".

[Sixball]

Kinda like the idea of my 4 alts (Biochem, Cyber, Artifice, Arms) being able to pimp each other out in craft-level 400 gear without the "Drop and swap" nonsense... Edited February 2, 2012 by Sixball

[Varturius]

 

What you and several other people don't realize is that this game has barely been out for more than a month, there is no way they are going to have the game perfectly balanced and optimized. While there is Alpha and Beta testing, there are some things you just can't test for, and some things that you just don't encounter till launch. I'm sure they are doing there best to fix what they can as fast as they can. That's why they're having these staggered down times: to fix problems. While the down time frustrates me, I understand that its what they can do to fix things as fast as possible.

 

This game being out for a month is a pretty poor excuse for something that was beta tested for a long period of time with dozens and dozens of folks telling them how unbalanced it was. Are you really trying to tell us all that nobody could do some simple math internally at BW to see what the entire test/live playerbase has been stating all along? If 1.7M of us can see it, why can't they?

 

I applaud BW for a very stable and successful launch, and the majority of it does feel pretty balanced. They are also extremely quick to fix bugs. Crafting overall however, is just nothing like what they told everyone it would be. And all the QQ on these forums is clearly falling on deaf ears. They have taken what could have been a very interesting system and turned it into some 2nd rate time sink.

[Qilz]

This whole crafting system is just plain stupid. To currently min/max you level synth/armor to 400 for the belt/bracers with augment slots, then drop it for artifice for relics with slots, then back to biochem. Hey Bioware where's the crafting 400 requirement for those???

 

.

 

There's the issue. You are changing Biochem but every other skill can still wear/use their items without having the skill afterwards. Make them all either tradable like the new Biochem stuff or make them all need 400 skill in that craft.

 

This company has no clue whatsoever what it is doing.

[Zeratix]

Biochem shouldn't be ANY stronger. You don't see other professions having Rakata gear with +10 more to every stat do you? No, you don't. Biochem hands down has a bigger advantage than any other profession right now.

 

Bioware is absolutely moving in the right direction with this. It should be about saving money, not being so much better than everyone else.

 

Every other profession can make BOP epic gear that has a chance to have an augment slot. Each augment slot can be fitted with a +28 primary stat (not seen any higher ones yet though I am sure they probably exist) leading to a +56 of primary stat on the rakata crafted gear. At the end of the day , nerfing biochem would cause a lot of min/maxers to ponder what to do since +56 of a primary stat from another profession like artifice or sythweaving is quite a bit especially when your Rakata biochem stims are going to be useless as compared to the Exotech stims which is what min/maxers will use anyway.

 

Zerix

Sith Marauder/ Veela PVP Server

[Choukyuudan]

I definitely read it and I've just read it again.

 

1. You are crazy if you think that people are going to drop Biochem in some silly crusade.

2. You are saying "downgrade" everything. This accomplishes nothing.

 

Bottom line is, is that Rakata should have been brought in line from the start. The stims shouldn't give 30 + more primary stat and +10 more secondary, period. These have been brought in line but they are reusable. The end. You are more than welcome to go with no profession and gimp yourself, but you'll be the only one lol.

Silly crusade? Yet, the warrior community in WoW once pooled enough players together in one location to bring down a server. Action speaks way louder than words. If people truly care as much as they're spouting on these forums, they'll take action. If not, so be it. As for gimping myself, hardly. I know how to play my class. The extra stats from Biochem pots over vendor ones won't affect my output significantly, and I've never had the time to participate in a bleeding-edge guild in any MMORPG I've played. Finally, I never said downgrade everything. The only downgrade I mentioned is one that Bioware stated they intend to do: nerf Rakata stims/adrenals. My proposal lessens the nerf actually. Nothing else in my original post is a nerf. Unless, you consider requiring appropriate crafting skill to use crafted BoPs a downgrade?

[thanealpha]

As long as Biochem gates the access to a infinitely reusable heal pot, and other crafting classes don't have infinitely reusable boosts of some sort, it will be broken.

 

Simple as that.

 

The quicker BW gets this idea through their heads and either adds infinite consumables to each crafting classes, or removes it from Biochem the better.

 

Until then it WILL continue to be a game breaking issue.

 

I can go through about 200 PvP health pots, and about 300 store bought medpacks in ONE week of play. Yes, about 2000 commedations and 500,000 credits just to be competative with people with Biochem.

 

I have Artifice. I supply my guild with hilts, gems, etc. I'm not changing. But I am predominately a PvP player, so I'm SEVERELY gimped compared to a player with Biochem and that free heal every 90 seconds.

 

Fix it BW.

[TrevNYC]

Every other profession can make BOP epic gear that has a chance to have an augment slot. Each augment slot can be fitted with a +28 primary stat (not seen any higher ones yet though I am sure they probably exist) leading to a +56 of primary stat on the rakata crafted gear. At the end of the day , nerfing biochem would cause a lot of min/maxers to ponder what to do since +56 of a primary stat from another profession like artifice or sythweaving is quite a bit especially when your Rakata biochem stims are going to be useless as compared to the Exotech stims which is what min/maxers will use anyway.

 

Couldn't this be solved by giving Biochem epic BOP implants, which would have a chance for augment slots?

[Tickdoff-Tank]

Every other profession can make BOP epic gear that has a chance to have an augment slot. Each augment slot can be fitted with a +28 primary stat (not seen any higher ones yet though I am sure they probably exist) leading to a +56 of primary stat on the rakata crafted gear. At the end of the day , nerfing biochem would cause a lot of min/maxers to ponder what to do since +56 of a primary stat from another profession like artifice or sythweaving is quite a bit especially when your Rakata biochem stims are going to be useless as compared to the Exotech stims which is what min/maxers will use anyway.

 

Zerix

Sith Marauder/ Veela PVP Server

 

Please show me the BOP epic gear that I can make as an Armstech.

[thanealpha]

Every other profession can make BOP epic gear that has a chance to have an augment slot. Each augment slot can be fitted with a +28 primary stat (not seen any higher ones yet though I am sure they probably exist) leading to a +56 of primary stat on the rakata crafted gear. At the end of the day , nerfing biochem would cause a lot of min/maxers to ponder what to do since +56 of a primary stat from another profession like artifice or sythweaving is quite a bit especially when your Rakata biochem stims are going to be useless as compared to the Exotech stims which is what min/maxers will use anyway.

 

Zerix

Sith Marauder/ Veela PVP Server

 

This isn't really true. Artifice, the clear choice for force wielders in a lot of ways, crafts NOTHING with augment slots that are usable by Sentinels. Artifice only crafts shields/foci and dual wielding Sents do not use that slot.

 

But that's really neither here nor there. The REAL issue with Biochem is the infinite heal. It's virtually giving Biochem players a new skill on their hotbar that non-Biochem players do not have access to.

 

Until every crafting class has a relatively similar powered limitless skill granted Biochem will be broken.

[Kryptorchid]

Every other profession can make BOP epic gear that has a chance to have an augment slot. Each augment slot can be fitted with a +28 primary stat (not seen any higher ones yet though I am sure they probably exist) leading to a +56 of primary stat on the rakata crafted gear. At the end of the day , nerfing biochem would cause a lot of min/maxers to ponder what to do since +56 of a primary stat from another profession like artifice or sythweaving is quite a bit especially when your Rakata biochem stims are going to be useless as compared to the Exotech stims which is what min/maxers will use anyway.

 

Zerix

Sith Marauder/ Veela PVP Server

 

If we can infer future changes to the other professions based on how they are handling Biochem changes, I think it is smart to think they will remove the BoP and skill requirement on gear from the other professions.

[JohraTon]

Biochem shouldn't be ANY stronger. You don't see other professions having Rakata gear with +10 more to every stat do you? No, you don't. Biochem hands down has a bigger advantage than any other profession right now.

 

Bioware is absolutely moving in the right direction with this. It should be about saving money, not being so much better than everyone else.

 

Erm, yes they do.

 

Artifice - Rakata relics +77 stat with an augment to give another +28 in whatever you chose. Better than anything I can get without artifice. Can drop this skill and still use the top items.

 

Synthweaving (i think) - Crafts Rakata gear belts and bracers with the same stats I need to run Nightmare mode op's for, but they can add another +28 in whatever stat they chose. Can drop the skill and still use the top items

 

Biochem - Constantly nerfed due to people whining. Dropping skill means anything you earned and paid for cannot be used any longer.

 

Why are Biochem and cybertech the only skills where I cannot drop them and carry on using the items I gained fairly by working my way up the crafting tree's. Nothing but discrimination against these skills due to a few whiners on the forums.

 

All these crafting endgame items need to be tradable. Its getting rediculous. Those who crafted the best in slot rakata gear and relics before switching to bio get to keep using their stuff. Why can I not switch from Bio and use my stims which I crafted and earned myself.

 

Stop nerfing stuff and start allowing people to trade.

[Kryptorchid]

E

Why are Biochem and cybertech the only skills where I cannot drop them and carry on using the items I gained fairly by working my way up the crafting tree's. Nothing but discrimination against these skills due to a few whiners on the forums.

 

All these crafting endgame items need to be tradable. Its getting rediculous. Those who crafted the best in slot rakata gear and relics before switching to bio get to keep using their stuff. Why can I not switch from Bio and use my stims which I crafted and earned myself.

 

Stop being stupid and read the entire dev post. That is EXACTLY what they plan on doing when all the changes are implemented.

[Snowred]

...............

3) Change the BoP items from other crafts to require skill in the crafts that produced them.

 

And there you have it make - Biochem better by requiring a change to other crafts that have no bearing on the Biochem skill whatsoever...... How does it improve Biochem?

 

More like sour grapes in abundance here because the credit raking is over

[Rouncer]

Should just make the augment slots on BoP items from all crafting professions dependent on the person having the appropriate level of skill in that profession. Drop that crafting profession then the augment slot goes dark. That would keep people from flip flopping between professions like crazy.

 

Then put exotech stims and adrenals on the daily/operation commendation venders.

[Varturius]

As long as Biochem gates the access to a infinitely reusable heal pot, and other crafting classes don't have infinitely reusable boosts of some sort, it will be broken.

 

Simple as that.

 

The quicker BW gets this idea through their heads and either adds infinite consumables to each crafting classes, or removes it from Biochem the better.

 

Until then it WILL continue to be a game breaking issue.

 

I can go through about 200 PvP health pots, and about 300 store bought medpacks in ONE week of play. Yes, about 2000 commedations and 500,000 credits just to be competative with people with Biochem.

 

I have Artifice. I supply my guild with hilts, gems, etc. I'm not changing. But I am predominately a PvP player, so I'm SEVERELY gimped compared to a player with Biochem and that free heal every 90 seconds.

 

Fix it BW.

 

At some point the reusables will get banned from PvP usage, problem solved. (like most mmo's do) I was a little surprised to see them be usable there at all honestly.

[Choukyuudan]

And there you have it make - Biochem better by requiring a change to other crafts that have no bearing on the Biochem skill whatsoever...... How does it improve Biochem?

 

More like sour grapes in abundance here because the credit raking is over

 

How is that sour grapes? It's completely illogical that people are circumventing the usage intent of the items. Moreover, it exacerbates the perceived Biochem imbalance. Since, other players are basically milking the other professions for BoP gear then jumping to Biochem causing a perceived imbalance favoring Biochem. The reality is that there actually isn't any real choice in which crew skill to take because you can just make rounds through each of the crew skills that apply to your class, then settle on Biochem at the end because Biochem is the only one that (appropriately) requires Biochem to use its purple gear. Nice try though. Sorry that such a change will hurt your character, but you know that what some players are doing is outside Bioware's intent. Before you ask it, I know it's outside of Bioware's intent because they would have made the items BoE if it wasn't.

 

As for the reusable argument. The only thing reusability affects is cost. Once Biochem stims/adrenals have their bonus stats removed, the effect they provide will be accessible to everyone. Non-Biochems pay, while Biochems don't. Meanwhile, every other profession has bonus stats that Biochems don't have access to (or should). Sounds pretty fair to me if the intent is for Biochem to be about cost-savings instead of power boosts.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Choukyuudan

[jHats]

Silly crusade? Yet, the warrior community in WoW once pooled enough players together in one location to bring down a server. Action speaks way louder than words. If people truly care as much as they're spouting on these forums, they'll take action. If not, so be it. As for gimping myself, hardly. I know how to play my class. The extra stats from Biochem pots over vendor ones won't affect my output significantly, and I've never had the time to participate in a bleeding-edge guild in any MMORPG I've played. Finally, I never said downgrade everything. The only downgrade I mentioned is one that Bioware stated they intend to do: nerf Rakata stims/adrenals. My proposal lessens the nerf actually. Nothing else in my original post is a nerf. Unless, you consider requiring appropriate crafting skill to use crafted BoPs a downgrade?

 

Okay. Start if off. Drop biochem and tell us how that goes for ya.

[L-RANDLE]

I definitely read it and I've just read it again.

 

1. You are crazy if you think that people are going to drop Biochem in some silly crusade.

2. You are saying "downgrade" everything. This accomplishes nothing.

 

Bottom line is, is that Rakata should have been brought in line from the start. The stims shouldn't give 30 + more primary stat and +10 more secondary, period. These have been brought in line but they are reusable. The end. You are more than welcome to go with no profession and gimp yourself, but you'll be the only one lol.

 

You still are missing the point.

 

1) Nerf Rakata adrenals and stims to be reusable versions of Exotech ones not Energized.

 

The OP agreed that the Rakata version stim/ads/med were overpowered, but now they have taken them a level below the Exotech ones. The trade off is Cost Savings v Stat Increase, but in that, the BioChem are now at a "disadvantage" since someone can now out stat the reusable version by 12% or so.

 

Generally I would say this is an imbalance, but us BioChemists can still make the high stat yield item at a very low cost, as compared to a market purchase. And we can sell those at a decent profit, which also lowers our "personal use cost" of those items. ADVANTAGE= BIOCHEM

 

So let's just put away our Lightsabers and our Rakata Bracers an end the "CALL TO ARMS"...LOL:D