Please, Don't Roll on Items for Another Class in Your Team

[kirorx]

Who cares, people can roll on whatever they want. Nothing is that great of a reward in this game anyway. I dont understand people that QQ over this stuff. If you dont get what you want the first time you can do it again, you are going to do it again anyway.

[Galbatorrix]

Which word did you not understand?

 

 

 

The one that you typed? You know. the one with the consonants and vowels? Come on, you know the one. Stop trying to deny it.

[Eldren]

The one that you typed? You know. the one with the consonants and vowels? Come on, you know the one. Stop trying to deny it.

 

Now I'm fairly confident you're trolling.

[Galbatorrix]

Now I'm fairly confident you're trolling.

 

 

It seemed like a fair reply given the nature of his post.

[Irusan]

Yeah, we probably would. What's the point? This is really only relevant in regards to the caricature you keep presenting.

 

The flip side is, would you? Would it be worth your time if I said "Hey, congrats, that's an awesome looking piece of gear. My mods are better but I'd love to have that look, want to run it again?"

 

I would refuse outright. Are you crazy? You think I want everyone on the server stealing my new awesome look?

[Irusan]

Yeah, we probably would. What's the point? This is really only relevant in regards to the caricature you keep presenting.

 

The flip side is, would you? Would it be worth your time if I said "Hey, congrats, that's an awesome looking piece of gear. My mods are better but I'd love to have that look, want to run it again?"

 

Yes of course I would run it again, but if we go to the Cantina after we cant be dressed the same, people would laugh at us. Since I am a 5 on the greedy scale, I call dibs.

[sjmc]

Yes of course I would run it again, but if we go to the Cantina after we cant be dressed the same, people would laugh at us. Since I am a 5 on the greedy scale, I call dibs.

Do people consider that this line of discussion gains validity on an RP server, but not so much on a non-RP server?

[sjmc]

A NBG issue that came up last night. If 20 mercenary commendations drop, would you need or greed? (it was a chest). I'll admit that I hit need without thinking about it ("I need mercenary commendations") and others did too, but some people greeded. EDIT: I would suppose commendations are currency, so should be "greed"? Edited February 2, 2012 by sjmc

[Armythug]

If BH and an imperial agent were in the same group for example, there shouldnt be a roll for a piece of gear. The system should automatically issue the gear to the class that can use the gear. I'm only making an example of armor but you get my point. If there are two of the same class that are designed to wear a piece that drops, then only they should be rolling. if people want offspec gear or gear for their companions, tell em to get it elsewhere.

[Eldren]

If BH and an imperial agent were in the same group for example, there shouldnt be a roll for a piece of gear. The system should automatically issue the gear to the class that can use the gear. I'm only making an example of armor but you get my point. If there are two of the same class that are designed to wear a piece that drops, then only they should be rolling. if people want offspec gear or gear for their companions, tell em to get it elsewhere.

 

Why should your assertion affect other players? What makes you an authority to tell someone "If you want gear for your companion, head elsewhere"? It's fine that you have an opinion (and that's all it is) on the matter, but that opinion doesn't obligate other players to accept it and do as you're saying.

[Irusan]

Do people consider that this line of discussion gains validity on an RP server, but not so much on a non-RP server?

 

I don't play on a RP server, but I did see a Juggernaut wearing the same chest as my Juggernaut the other day and it really bothered me.

 

I want to be a special snowflake!

[sjmc]

If BH and an imperial agent were in the same group for example, there shouldnt be a roll for a piece of gear. The system should automatically issue the gear to the class that can use the gear. I'm only making an example of armor but you get my point. If there are two of the same class that are designed to wear a piece that drops, then only they should be rolling. if people want offspec gear or gear for their companions, tell em to get it elsewhere.

Should it automatically assign it even if it wasn't an upgrade and wouldn't be worn? How would the system decide on what is an upgrade?

[sjmc]

I don't play on a RP server, but I did see a Juggernaut wearing the same chest as my Juggernaut the other day and it really bothered me.

 

I want to be a special snowflake!

You secretly want to be on an RP server and won't admit it. Come join us in the dark side. Or go full Dark V and join an RP-PVP server.

[Striker_KOJ]

Seriously.

 

I lost a lot of rolls on an FBSS... it didn't stop me from congratulating the guy who won it.

 

Respect points went way up with the FBSS reference. I also came from that era, and I guess that's why I'm not bothered by the system we have in place now.

 

For those "jumping to the other side" and saying you'll just roll need on everything, no sweat off my back, because it does not affect my decision or ability to do the same. I'm not going to run to the forums and tell on you because your virtual dice landed on a higher number. If I really really really really really want the item, I will try for it again. But just because an item dropped, and I happen to be in the group, does not mean that item is automatically mine.

 

But I'm the entitled one, right?

[itekazzawrrlic]

Ah, so now people that think as I do are "whiners".

 

 

 

I do not have any counter-argument for the "I roll need when I feel like it and you are selfish if you don't like it."

 

That right there should tell you something.

Edited February 3, 2012 by itekazzawrrlic

[itekazzawrrlic]

The people that advocate "We only do what the system allows us to". If we were in a group together and you saw that I was "need" rolling on everything that dropped, blue stuff, green stuff, orange stuff, EVERYTHING, would you care if I kept winning loot? Would you say something to me about it? Would you yourself start needing everything that drops too, or would you continue to just "greed" things that aren't an upgrade? Would you drop group?

 

 

I'm very interested to hear your responses.

 

I would just do my own thing. Who cares what you do?

 

The world will keep on spinning.

[itekazzawrrlic]

Congratulation, you've moved up a category of selfishness from Cat 5 down to a cat 4.

 

 

 

From least selfish to most selfish

1. Guy who passes on everything
   
2. Guy who hits greed on everything
   
3. Guy who hits need on stuff for his own reasons and doesn't expect people to follow his reasons
   
4. Guy who hits need on everything, and doesn't expect people to follow his reasons
   
5. Guy who hits need on stuff for his own reasons, and insists that other people should roll in ways that follow by his reasons for wanting items rather than their own reasons for wanting items.
   

 

EDIT: I misread Cat 5. Nevermind.

Edited February 3, 2012 by itekazzawrrlic

[Havokk]

The system should automatically issue the gear to the class that can use the gear.

How does it determine that?

 

For example, what classes use the following items?

Light Armour with +Cunning.

Medium Armour with +Aim.

Power Generator with +Strength.

Blaster Pistol with +Aim.

Sniper Rifle (Republic side).

[Revenaught]

If BH and an imperial agent were in the same group for example, there shouldnt be a roll for a piece of gear. The system should automatically issue the gear to the class that can use the gear. I'm only making an example of armor but you get my point. If there are two of the same class that are designed to wear a piece that drops, then only they should be rolling. if people want offspec gear or gear for their companions, tell em to get it elsewhere.

 

How about I just tell you to go get your gear for your main elsewhere? I have as much right to tell you to do that.

[face_hindu]

How about I just tell you to go get your gear for your main elsewhere? I have as much right to tell you to do that.

 

See what happens when you guys feed the ^trolls? They keep coming back for more.

[RogueStrife]

This is why I prefer running FPs with friends. Because they know how to hold back on an item you need and vice versa.

 

Personally, I pass whenever I don't need the item, then Need if I need the item. I don't roll Greed. Gives good Karma this way.. Haha. Lol.

[Eldren]

See what happens when you guys feed the ^trolls? They keep coming back for more.

 

Oh hey, face, you're back.... fancy that!

[face_hindu]

Oh hey, face, you're back.... fancy that!

 

How goes the lecture circuit, Professor?

[sjmc]

In an attempt to steer this discussion back to the point at hand, I am going to raise a question that I would be very interested to hear the answer to.

Why should my upgrade priorities defer to yours? (For those that believe that they should).

 

My upgrade priorities change as I level and gear up.

 

At 45 (Scoundrel), I have a full set of mostly current level 40 PVP gear with the level 42 weapon (which will likely be replaced with the 46 one soon). A couple of pieces are not orange and I think I have replaced my belt since I got the PVP set. My companion, Akaavi Spar is wearing relatively current mostly purple and orange gear, although I am not sure her techstaff is all that new.

 

When looking for "upgrades", I will generally be looking for mods for myself or +AIM heavy armor for Akaavi. Given a choice between the two, I would usually go for the heavy armor -- Akaavi takes most of the hits and increased armor seems to reduce the damage a lot more than +cunning increases my healing. My armor level is less important because I have defensive abilities and try to keep the mob from attacking me beyond the early part of the battle (when soloing).

 

I would not be able to solo things my level if Akaavi did not have good gear. Excellent gear means that she might not die when we are fighting gold star mobs.

 

While Akaavi doesn't help me in some flashpoints (ones where she isn't with me), she does during the 90% of the game when I am doing solo quests or looking for PVP opportunities.

 

Now, from what I have gathered on this thread (and the previous ones), the "restrictive NBG" people think that you should only be allowed to "need" for stat-upgrades that improve your grouping ability. Things that improve your soloing ability only (such as companion gear -- and I assume +presence items) do not count. This is obviously counter to my loot priority, and therefore I am expected to ignore my needs in favour what other people believe are my needs (essentially upgrade gear that has +cunning to replace the level 40 PVP gear that I happen to like).

 

If I am not going to be joining a new group after leaving this one, why should my "group" stats matter vs my "solo" ones. To me, the solo ones are more important because that is what I will be doing. If I was planning to group next, I might have different priorities. I don't see that "helps this group" matters very much because it will probably break up in a few minutes anyways, while I will continue using the loot gear for days or weeks.

 

Where did this rule come from? I assume that at least some people came from WoW. Was there some sort of a problem there with people needing on items that helped their solo ability? Why was improving the "group" part of your character so important? Was their group content that required "group" gear in order to complete (which is not the case pre-50 in SWTOR)?

 

What sorts of items were there in WoW that would qualify as an upgrade to your character (such as companion gear in SWTOR) but would be disallowed a need roll?

 

Is there some basis or background to the "must improve group ability" rule beyond being intended to ensure that people that group all the time get all the gear they want at the expense of people that do not group all the time (and are not necessarily looking for the gear they are allowed to roll on)?

 

I do not accept the "this is the way it has been for 10 years" argument because companions have not been part of the major games for the last 10 years. Therefore any rule that specifically states "no companions" must have developed in the past month or so.

 

Similarly, the "no rolls for appearance items" seems to have developed at a time when wearing items for appearance would gimp your character. By putting an orange item on and loading it with mods from your current gear, you do not gimp your character in any way yet you may have improved your appearance (which would count as an upgrade to many, but not to those that practice "restrictive NBG").

 

NOTE: I don't mean the term "restrictive NBG" to be disparative. I just don't know a better way to describe the rules system being proposed by the "group 1" people. It is obviously more restrictive than "roll need on what you think you need", which is the system that I would subscribe to if we can't just have random distribution. If there is a better non-argumentative name to use, please suggest it.

 

To me, the line being drawn by the "restrictive NBG" people seems to be relatively arbitrary. I would be interested in the background that leads to the conclusion that this arbitrary line is right by definition and the use of any other line is wrong.

 

EDIT: Under my system, if we both want something that has "your class stats", we would both have a 50% chance of getting it (assuming just two people were interested in the item). Under your system, I would get 0% and you would get 100%. Even if I were to agree that you deserve some level of priority, I don't think having no chance at all really meets my loot priority needs (even if I recognize that you made a great sacrifice by not rolling for items that neither of us wanted with +cunning).

Edited February 3, 2012 by sjmc

[Napalm_AKI]

The rule here is very simple you roll on what you need. As BH tank I will need on any Cademimum piece drop for my class.

 

However, the problem is that my Cad "tanking" armor has no shield rating or absorption, which means I will need for any piece for other class that has those mods, just so that I can strip them out and install in my tanking Cademimu armor so that it is actually useable as a tank. Basically I will need on the drop because I do need it.

 

Other choice that I have is too strip out pre-installed mods and replace them with inferior (lvl wise) mods from dailies, but why would I nerf myself like that?

 

Basically you can thank BW and their idiotic gear design for this.