The real problem (yes another one)

[Jarfunkz]

Is that in the grinding stories you are constantly telling everyone how they have never seen anyone swing a sabre as well, how no one handles the blasters as well, etc.

 

Then when you get to 50, IT GETS REAL.

 

You now need to work to be good. Consider yourself a mailroom clerk, bottom of the totem pole. You work hard, show up everyday and you get a promotion. Do you want to know how you work hard? Heal people, put the better players in guard, cc people, pull people away, Earn yourself some medal.

 

Your promotion is some gear. Now you can start pulling your own weight. You got yourself a big stick and you swing it.

 

 

Do what it takes to be successful. Don't bring the success curve to meet your special needs.

 

 

I am starting to think you are all little obama kids. You have that mindset where you truly believe existence is achievement. Everything should be handed to you, oh it isn't fair...

You are right, it isn't fair you want it to be even fight in game against someone who has worked their butt off to get to 72 valor rating and almost a full set of battlemaster gear. Grow a pair, take your licks, and earn yourself a seat at the table.

[Korevas]

Yeah, games don't need to be fair because life isn't. Sure.

[Shivus]

 

 

I am starting to think you are all little obama kids. You have that mindset where you truly believe existence is achievement. Everything should be handed to you, oh it isn't fair...

 

Meanwhile no mention of valor 20 peeps walking around in full champion gear because the RNG gods smiled upon them.

 

Oh the irony

[Jarfunkz]

Yeah, games don't need to be fair because life isn't. Sure.

 

I think working hard and spending time getting your gear is a pretty fair way of doing things. Having it handed to you... I guess I don't see a benefit for having GEAR WELFARE, for the people unwilling to work for your gear.

 

STOP GEAR WELFARE!!

[Shivus]

I think working hard and spending time getting your gear is a pretty fair way of doing things.

 

Implying grinding warzones is challenging in any way. Yes, time is spent, but working hard? Please.

[Safgril]

Is that in the grinding stories you are constantly telling everyone how they have never seen anyone swing a sabre as well, how no one handles the blasters as well, etc.

 

Then when you get to 50, IT GETS REAL.

 

You now need to work to be good. Consider yourself a mailroom clerk, bottom of the totem pole. You work hard, show up everyday and you get a promotion. Do you want to know how you work hard? Heal people, put the better players in guard, cc people, pull people away, Earn yourself some medal.

 

Your promotion is some gear. Now you can start pulling your own weight. You got yourself a big stick and you swing it.

 

 

Do what it takes to be successful. Don't bring the success curve to meet your special needs.

 

 

I am starting to think you are all little obama kids. You have that mindset where you truly believe existence is achievement. Everything should be handed to you, oh it isn't fair...

You are right, it isn't fair you want it to be even fight in game against someone who has worked their butt off to get to 72 valor rating and almost a full set of battlemaster gear. Grow a pair, take your licks, and earn yourself a seat at the table.

 

LOL.. are you saying you are good because of your gear? I mean seriously? you think having battlemaster that much better then the rest is good?

 

you can honestly say that if they shrink the gap a little you will start to suck?

 

oh man seriously, get over it. It needs to happen and I am welcoming it. Bring new players to the Warzones.. Bring new players to the GAME period.

 

I can see how premade groups of Battlemasters chase away the players because they cant even damage a BM group.

 

And being in a guild made premade now is wiping newcomers to the WZ is not exactly fun anymore...

 

we get them quitting too much... We had 10 minutes to go when we started our last WZ before this past patch... we were able to defend them off and fly thru them to the end all in 10 minutes before the server closed down...

 

it wasnt even funny. Its downright not challenging...

 

so you ask yourself... do you truly need that gear to be that overpowering to be good?

 

if you say yes.. I am sorry to say.. some of you need to stop calling people carebears then and start looking in the mirror.

[Shivus]

LOL.. are you saying you are good because of your gear? I mean seriously? you think having battlemaster that much better then the rest is good?

 

you can honestly say that if they shrink the gap a little you will start to suck?

 

oh man seriously, get over it. It needs to happen and I am welcoming it. Bring new players to the Warzones.. Bring new players to the GAME period.

 

I can see how premade groups of Battlemasters chase away the players because they cant even damage a BM group.

 

And being in a guild made premade now is wiping newcomers to the WZ is not exactly fun anymore...

 

we get them quitting too much... We had 10 minutes to go when we started our last WZ before this past patch... we were able to defend them off and fly thru them to the end all in 10 minutes before the server closed down...

 

it wasnt even funny. Its downright not challenging...

 

so you ask yourself... do you truly need that gear to be that overpowering to be good?

 

if you say yes.. I am sorry to say.. some of you need to stop calling people carebears then and start looking in the mirror.

 

Agreed entirely.

 

PVP in its current state is more carebear than PVE. You engage in entirely concensual PVP to grind points that you use to get gear. In PvP I feel like I'm playing some generic Korean PVE MMO for crying out loud. The only redeeming instances are pulling people into fire or acid, and dominating an exploiting opponent in voidstar because they're terrible.

[Defang]

I think perhaps they should make it easier to get the Centurion gear, for new players that is. I mean my guild pretty much farms huttball 5-0 for hours on end since most of us are in BM gear.

 

I think the biggest issue new players face is not having any expertise on their gear.

 

My solution. Add a 15 Centurion Commendations turn in that costs as much as a champion bag. That way if you are in need of gear you can purchase that instead and replace those leveling pieces with real pvp gear.

[Rakimou]

I thought SWTOR was a game, not an office worker simulator.

[Jarfunkz]

LOL.. are you saying you are good because of your gear? I mean seriously? you think having battlemaster that much better then the rest is good?

 

you can honestly say that if they shrink the gap a little you will start to suck?

 

oh man seriously, get over it. It needs to happen and I am welcoming it. Bring new players to the Warzones.. Bring new players to the GAME period.

 

I can see how premade groups of Battlemasters chase away the players because they cant even damage a BM group.

 

And being in a guild made premade now is wiping newcomers to the WZ is not exactly fun anymore...

 

we get them quitting too much... We had 10 minutes to go when we started our last WZ before this past patch... we were able to defend them off and fly thru them to the end all in 10 minutes before the server closed down...

 

it wasnt even funny. Its downright not challenging...

 

so you ask yourself... do you truly need that gear to be that overpowering to be good?

 

if you say yes.. I am sorry to say.. some of you need to stop calling people carebears then and start looking in the mirror.

 

I am better due to my gear, my gear is modded and chosen to increase the chance of success in my play style. My skill points are picked due to my play style. Everything revolves around that.

 

What you are suggesting is for this game to become socialist. Oh once you get to 50 everyone and everything is the same, no matter what you have...

 

Coordination still trumps gear in this game. I see people with darn near full battle master NEVER even think about touching their damage debuffs against opponents, throw shields on people.

 

Your sample size is dependent upon the new 50s pugging it and not being coordinated vs your geared and coordinated group. Which is the same sample as the rest of the complainers on the forum.

 

If you were so pro- equal pvp, you wouldn't be grouped up to queue. But you want to rely on your coordination and tactics with your group. In the mean time criticize others for wanting to keep their gear's edge (gear that is easily obtainable).

 

The majority of the pvpers goal(that I am around at least) is to have elite players with elite gear, taking their class to the highest possible platform against others who are elite players with elite gear and doing the same. It doesn't happen as often as it should, but it does happen.

 

BTW at least 90% of my wz's are solo queued. At this point in time, not everyone is geared, not everyone is 50(they should be), and there is really nothing that keeps you pvping other that getting more gear and getting more valor. When things do eventually become competitive and a rating system is placed, I want to be ready to do the best I can, I want all the hard work that I did grinding up to pay off.

[Jarfunkz]

Agreed entirely.

 

PVP in its current state is more carebear than PVE. You engage in entirely concensual PVP to grind points that you use to get gear. In PvP I feel like I'm playing some generic Korean PVE MMO for crying out loud. The only redeeming instances are pulling people into fire or acid, and dominating an exploiting opponent in voidstar because they're terrible.

 

I don't know, on my server we have some pretty even pvp. Imps have good talent, rebs have good talent... I went rep when I saw how many "pvpers" were going imp.

 

But you have to understand that even queuing up right now is an RNG system. It doesn't take that long if you are properly motivated to obtaining gear.

 

If we got to choose who we went up against, that would make my gameplay more enjoyable.

[Jarfunkz]

I think perhaps they should make it easier to get the Centurion gear, for new players that is. I mean my guild pretty much farms huttball 5-0 for hours on end since most of us are in BM gear.

 

I think the biggest issue new players face is not having any expertise on their gear.

 

My solution. Add a 15 Centurion Commendations turn in that costs as much as a champion bag. That way if you are in need of gear you can purchase that instead and replace those leveling pieces with real pvp gear.

 

A choice of a guaranteed centurian token (1 needed for bracer,belt, etc) (2 needed for rifle, main armor) or a chance to get champion comms or token piece would be a great idea to implement. Of course this would cost 200/200.

[Jarfunkz]

I thought SWTOR was a game, not an office worker simulator.

 

Setting yourself up for success is the same in every phase of life. If you constantly put yourself in situations that benefit you and you are constantly prepared, chances are you will do well. Pretty simple concept.

[Urza]

Meanwhile no mention of valor 20 peeps walking around in full champion gear because the RNG gods smiled upon them.

 

Oh the irony

 

I'm Valor Rank 45 and I'm still missing 2 pieces of Champion.

 

Want to know the difference between myself and someone who doesn't have the divine favor of the "RNG Gods"?

 

 

 

I've opened tons more bags than them.

 

[Labradoraki]

I think working hard and spending time getting your gear is a pretty fair way of doing things. Having it handed to you... I guess I don't see a benefit for having GEAR WELFARE, for the people unwilling to work for your gear.

 

STOP GEAR WELFARE!!

Sorry but giving gear based on time played isnt something good either... its only good for the company because it brings moar money.... If honestly believe its a good system then facepaw...

[Urza]

Sorry but giving gear based on time played isnt something good either... its only good for the company because it brings moar money.... If honestly believe its a good system then facepaw...

 

I'm sorry to break it to you, but subscription MMOs are always an investment of time. The more time you put into the game, the more you get out of the game.

 

This makes complete sense.

[Labradoraki]

I'm sorry to break it to you, but subscription MMOs are always an investment of time. The more time you put into the game, the more you get out of the game.

 

This makes complete sense.

 

For the compay and profit... not for the game

[Urza]

For the compay and profit... not for the game

 

I'm suddenly reminded of a rather amusing joke that Blizzard made at MMO player's expense during Blizzcon several years back. They created what they considered the optimal player's raid.

 

It consisted of zero trash mobs. All the bosses were in a 5 meter radius and died with one hit each, and they all dropped one of every high level item you could ever want for specifically your class. And at the end was a 40 man Van Cleef pull because it was funny.

[Labradoraki]

Ok so you continue support the system that even the biggest noob can get good gear if he spends enough time

So later he can almost 1 second kill low gear players to feel better because he has 0 skill

Edited February 2, 2012 by Labradoraki

[Jarfunkz]

Sorry but giving gear based on time played isnt something good either... its only good for the company because it brings moar money.... If honestly believe its a good system then facepaw...

 

PVP is gear based, skill based, and coordination based.

 

If you want to increase the two latter, just add a multiplier like they had in beta. If you win, you get a 2x multiplier, if you lose you get a 1x on the commendations/medals/xp/etc that you receive.

 

I personally believe that coordination trumps everything. Getting rid of gear doesn't solve anything. We are talking about newly level 50s who are solo queueing, probably do not have stims, probably do not have adrenals, probably have green gear...

 

Do you people really believe that being unpreparedness should grant you success?

[Urza]

Ok so you continue support the system that even the biggest noob can get good gear if he spends enough time

So later he can almost 1 second kill low gear players to feel better because he has 0 skill

 

When MMO communities give out specs and dps rotations to do the most damage one can do, and this doesn't drag down a team of 7 other people so far that they fail at every aspect of pvp and pve, yes the "noobs" are going to get gear.

 

It's just something you are going to have to accept. Sometimes bad players are carried by good players.

[Labradoraki]

PVP is gear based, skill based, and coordination based.

 

If you want to increase the two latter, just add a multiplier like they had in beta. If you win, you get a 2x multiplier, if you lose you get a 1x on the commendations/medals/xp/etc that you receive.

 

I personally believe that coordination trumps everything. Getting rid of gear doesn't solve anything. We are talking about newly level 50s who are solo queueing, probably do not have stims, probably do not have adrenals, probably have green gear...

 

Do you people really believe that being unpreparedness should grant you success?

 

Yes because if somoene is good he still wins even if he is new 50 but a noob will always lose s0o in order to make money they give noobs a huge advantage for real life money aka time so they can kill others easily but still lose to geared players...

 

I am feeling pity that you dont seem to understand that its all about money and try to support a broken system that brings profit only to the company

[Jarfunkz]

Yes because if somoene is good he still wins even if he is new 50 but a noob will always lose s0o in order to make money they give noobs a huge advantage for real life money aka time so they can kill others easily but still lose to geared players...

 

I am feeling pity that you dont seem to understand that its all about money and try to support a broken system that brings profit only to the company

 

Yah, I worked on this game for over a year in beta... It is very disheartening that there are bugs I mentioned over a year ago that are still in the game today. I had a lot of hopes for this game, but in six months, there might be 50,000 left.

 

I just want gear, skill, and coordination to all be part of pvp.

[Safgril]

In the mean time criticize others for wanting to keep their gear's edge

 

 

This right here.... this is how games die... dont believe me... check out all the prior attempts on games that have failed and lost TONS of subs because of this... Warhammer online... Age of Conan(only recently doing good because of "free2play")... the list can go on...Is this whats good for the game or good for you?

 

The majority of the pvpers goal(that I am around at least) is to have elite players with elite gear, taking their class to the highest possible platform against others who are elite players with elite gear and doing the same. It doesn't happen as often as it should, but it does happen.

 

ahh the typical elitism from DAOC and WOW and any other game that puts somebody over the top of new players... but... you pick your skills in your skill tree... you get your armor.. which can still be more powerful then cent except they are gonna just not make the gap as huge as it is now... whats the problem? if you are good you are good? why do you need it to be so overpowering?

 

BTW at least 90% of my wz's are solo queued. At this point in time, not everyone is geared, not everyone is 50(they should be), and there is really nothing that keeps you pvping other that getting more gear and getting more valor. When things do eventually become competitive and a rating system is placed, I want to be ready to do the best I can, I want all the hard work that I did grinding up to pay off.

 

what keeps you pvping? gee I dont know... maybe pvp keeps you pvping? why do you need a carrot at the end of a stick to keep you doing what you like? I enjoy pvping... I dont need something at the end of the road to achieve something to enjoy something...

 

 

There is a saying....

 

Its the journey that you enjoy not the destination. again, I welcome closing the gap... it will bring in new players... do they need to fix the PVE gear.. sure.. .and hope they do.

[MatchpointServe]

Is that in the grinding stories you are constantly telling everyone how they have never seen anyone swing a sabre as well, how no one handles the blasters as well, etc.

 

Then when you get to 50, IT GETS REAL.

 

You now need to work to be good. Consider yourself a mailroom clerk, bottom of the totem pole. You work hard, show up everyday and you get a promotion. Do you want to know how you work hard? Heal people, put the better players in guard, cc people, pull people away, Earn yourself some medal.

 

Your promotion is some gear. Now you can start pulling your own weight. You got yourself a big stick and you swing it.

 

 

Do what it takes to be successful. Don't bring the success curve to meet your special needs.

 

 

I am starting to think you are all little obama kids. You have that mindset where you truly believe existence is achievement. Everything should be handed to you, oh it isn't fair...

You are right, it isn't fair you want it to be even fight in game against someone who has worked their butt off to get to 72 valor rating and almost a full set of battlemaster gear. Grow a pair, take your licks, and earn yourself a seat at the table.

 

 

As someone who opposes collectivism vigorously, I am offended. Here's the deal: the current PvP system is not about skill. Rather, it's about whoever put in the most time. Let me put it in an economic-related scenario.

 

Suppose you have 2 businesses. Business A and Business B.

 

Business A has been in business for the last 100 years. It has successfully produced and sold, say, cupcakes for a century and was regarded as the best in its business. It costs them 5 dollars to make a cupcake.

 

Business B comes into play. Business B makes better cupcakes. Business B has the potential to destroy Business A. It costs them 4 dollars to make a cupcake, and their cupcake is a hell of a lot better than Business A's cupcake.

 

Buuuut.... we have our wonderful government headed by president BW. President BW has implemented a new policy: he grants a subsidy per cupcake to the business that has been in operation longer.

 

Thanks to this subsidy, business A can sell their 5 dollar cupcakes for 3 dollars each. Business B cannot even begin to compete. Even though Business B makes a much better cupcake, much more efficiently, and under a free, competitive market would kick Business A's ***, President BW has decided to award Businesses based upon how long they've been in operation.

 

The exact same thing happens in PvP. The person with the most expertise wins. I don't care how much time you've put into the game or how much Valor you have. Fact is, you can be a clicker in BM gear and still kick the *** of the best PvPer in the world if he only has Centurion.

 

For fresh 50's, It doesn't matter how good and efficient your cupcakes are -- because Business A was here first making their ****** cupcakes, you can never beat them.

Edited February 2, 2012 by MatchpointServe