thereisdwarf Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 [edit] Have a feeling this thread won't last much longer. Was a troll title to begin with. not true at all, sorry. I had a genuine question that was a result of a conflict that happened to me. I was curious what others though of this.
Rhinzual Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Got news for you: there are millions of sick human beings who would happily murder you for the change in your pocket. The only thing stopping a lot of people from that is the fear that someone else will reduce them to a smear if they try it, and the rules of society. Unfortunately, those get set aside in a fantasy world inhabited by anonymous people living up to GIFT. The ugly truth is that you can't really ninja-loot in this game outside of taking a chest when someone else is fighting the guarding mob. You can roll need on something, but only if you participated in the fight, and if you need on everything everyone else can to. You can ninja an objective, but it will respawn rapidly anyway, so what's the point? The larger question is "Can I RP and act like a fool , ingrate or thug and get away with it" and the answer is no. It doesn't matter if you're on an RP or RP-PVP or PVE server. Unless and until the game lets you cut down random civilians to loot them for cash, you can't be thug-mentality evil. Pretty much this. Thanks to Legacy names, people will spread the Legacy names of ninja looters to all their buddies, and word of mouth will spread and they'll find it harder and harder to get into groups. Humans are viscous creatures yes, but we're also social creatures that depend heavily on others to survive in any real capacity. Paying for groceries because you can't/don't/won't grow your own food or paying bills because you didn't/couldn't build your own house and provide perfectly for yourself. By Ninja-looting and trying to excuse it as a DS action, you're telling the server you're on bit by bit that you are not someone to trust. Plus, if you stole something from a Darkside Bounty Hunter and claimed being DS as a reason, bear in mind that a big DS option for Bounty Hunter's on Hutta is to decapitate a defenseless, cowering man and present the sevred head to his wife purely because Nem'ro told you to and even paid money for it. So yeah, you'd risk stealing something that a complete psycho who has no qualms at all about killing says would be of great use to him. I wonder if the TC should ask the question: Is it okay to steal from someone who belongs in a society where if I get caught, they could kill me and get away scott free and even get praised for showing strength/killing a fool who's actions harmed the whole? That's what the lore essentially is for the Sith Empire.
SpeedySalmon Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Hi guys, I have a roleplaying question. So, my in-game character is a complete jerk who likes to slaughter low-level travellers who aren't familiar with combat to the same degree. Does this mean I can med-bay camp them over and over again and keep killing them until they log out? I mean, I'm just roleplaying, right?
Frammshamm Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 its a game mechanic = its ok. Feel free to ninja loot anything on any server bc there isnt anything anyone will do about it. The community must punish the player, bc in all other aspects of the game, ninja looting is perfectly allowable. On a sidenote, blame BW for designing a loot system that actually promotes people looting everything. It is actually arguable that the player ninjalooting is actually needing it for an upgrade on a companion. Who are you to tell him that YOUR gear needs are > the gear needs of HIS companion.
Rhinzual Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 its a game mechanic = its ok. Feel free to ninja loot anything on any server bc there isnt anything anyone will do about it. The community must punish the player, bc in all other aspects of the game, ninja looting is perfectly allowable. On a sidenote, blame BW for designing a loot system that actually promotes people looting everything. It is actually arguable that the player ninjalooting is actually needing it for an upgrade on a companion. Who are you to tell him that YOUR gear needs are > the gear needs of HIS companion. Because Willpower gear is useless for a Bounty Hunter forever and my Sith Sorc needs that purple light armor that just dropped that gives +power, +crit, and +surge?
Sakes Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Its never okay, even on an RP server. There is no RP community that encourages people be ***** to each other. If you have an expressed agreement with people you commonly play with and they are fine with that, it's one thing. If you are doing this to random people in your group, it's quite another. Part of RP is give and take and making sure everyone enjoys themselves. There is a difference between an RPer and someone who is a griefer hiding behind RP. This is a fairly obvious case of griefing hiding behind RP. One common tactic is to pick and choose to RP when it benefits them (ninjaing) and not RP when it does not. Loot rolls don't make any logical RP sense. In reality there is no pop up windows and no dice rolls. In reality items don't get stuck to you and can't be traded. In reality if someone steals from you, there are consequences and legal recourses. In this case there is nothing the person who is ninja'd from can do. Hell, even if they wanted to give the person a chance to duel them for the item or whatnot the game mechanics prevent it with binding items. So No, it's not okay. Its using RP as an excuse to pick and choose when to RP and when to hide behind game mechanics in order to grief people and its not acceptable in any serious RP community.
LogicalPremise Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Got news for you: Not so. Go learn some social psych sometime, you'll be fascinated. I don't think you understand that extent to which the rules of society are internalized - nor do you understand the ingrained biological nature of morality and altruism (without which, again, humanity never would have survived). In fact, go look up kin selection some time. Got news for you: it's been proven that social modeling rules tend to break down in anonymous online environments that basically scale up a sense of diffusion of responsibility and downplay the interaction of human connection factors. Sure, lots of rules of society are internalized, which is why we have people screaming about looting for companions is theft. Unfortunately, altruism communicates very poorly in any group selection predicated on a system where there are NO zero-sum results. You win a loot roll, I lose it, we're pugging, I get no group utility once we go our separate ways. Maybe if you spent more time dealing with the homeless and bangers in the inner city and less going over papers about applied social modeling, you'd have a clearer understanding of why people can be nice to those around them and act like complete dbags online.
Rhinzual Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Got news for you: it's been proven that social modeling rules tend to break down in anonymous online environments that basically scale up a sense of diffusion of responsibility and downplay the interaction of human connection factors. Sure, lots of rules of society are internalized, which is why we have people screaming about looting for companions is theft. Unfortunately, altruism communicates very poorly in any group selection predicated on a system where there are NO zero-sum results. You win a loot roll, I lose it, we're pugging, I get no group utility once we go our separate ways. Maybe if you spent more time dealing with the homeless and bangers in the inner city and less going over papers about applied social modeling, you'd have a clearer understanding of why people can be nice to those around them and act like complete dbags online. I believe it's called the GIFT.
LogicalPremise Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 yeah, I mentioned that in my initial post before Monsieur Psychology school grad weighed in with *snicker* kin selection.
thereisdwarf Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 This is a fairly obvious case of griefing hiding behind RP. One common tactic is to pick and choose to RP when it benefits them (ninjaing) and not RP when it does not. Loot rolls don't make any logical RP sense. In reality there is no pop up windows and no dice rolls. What about someone stealing a chest located in the world we are "RP Living" in, which would be present and accessible to both people. Think RPing a bandit...
Rhinzual Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 yeah, I mentioned that in my initial post before Monsieur Psychology school grad weighed in with *snicker* kin selection. I most have skipped over it accidently.
Inarai Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Got news for you: it's been proven that social modeling rules tend to break down in anonymous online environments that basically scale up a sense of diffusion of responsibility and downplay the interaction of human connection factors. Sure, lots of rules of society are internalized, which is why we have people screaming about looting for companions is theft. Unfortunately, altruism communicates very poorly in any group selection predicated on a system where there are NO zero-sum results. You win a loot roll, I lose it, we're pugging, I get no group utility once we go our separate ways. Maybe if you spent more time dealing with the homeless and bangers in the inner city and less going over papers about applied social modeling, you'd have a clearer understanding of why people can be nice to those around them and act like complete dbags online. Legacy system diffuses anonymity. It's also been proven that the nature of online interaction isn't so different at least in so far as social punishment - the effects of ostracism are still just as powerful, for example. And altruism isn't quite what's at play here so much as norms of reciprocity and so on - which are in fact more selfish. And as it seems to have escaped your notice, I did demonstrate that, in fact, there is an extent to which you don't simply part was and never see each other again - there's a reason there is no cross-server interaction in this game, you will see these people again at some point (and will know it even on other characters, as you'll be able to see Legacy names - and if turning it off becomes a way to mask yourself, display will very quickly become something that's mandatory for grouping). The anonymity of online interactions alters the pressures of social norms, certainly, but it does not erase it - and weakening anonymity, in turn, reverses to some degree that alteration. Further, inner city problems are not in any way connected to this - we haven't remotely gotten into the territory of in-group versus out-group and so on. My real point, though, was that it's pretty stupid for people to pretend that their conduct doesn't impact the overall community and themselves in turn.
archifikoss Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Given your character is dark side, should one be able to steal items? You would kill story characters, and rob people blind. You would also rob a player from their chest if you were dark. Edit: yes this assumes the player is RPing on an RP server.. Edit 2: I did not do this, nor do I plan on doing this. I am a victim of an RP Ninja, and was curious how legitimate this is on RP server, this being my first RP server. Only if your party agrees to it. Which I doubt they would unless they didn't want anything from the instance. It's one thing to play the role of the nasty person, and another thing to be nasty at the actors without their consent in the name of your role
Mephane Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Given your character is dark side, should one be able to steal items? You would kill story characters, and rob people blind. You would also rob a player from their chest if you were dark. Edit: yes this assumes the player is RPing on an RP server.. Edit 2: I did not do this, nor do I plan on doing this. I am a victim of an RP Ninja, and was curious how legitimate this is on RP server, this being my first RP server. Simply said - stealing from other players, ninjalooting etc. is not in-character, but out-of-character, metagaming, and directed against that player, not against their character. There it is absolutely NOT ok to do this.
CygnusMX Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) nm then Edited February 2, 2012 by CygnusMX
thereisdwarf Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 Just go to bed and ask that you be treated tommorow as you treated people today and go to sleep. please read, I never did this. I am asking a question, not giving a confession....
thereisdwarf Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 I even went one step further: Since, during my playtime frame, it seems I'm always the only person ever online willing to heal (don't ask me why, I guess people like pewpew) as of lately I started charging for healing groups (10k/run). And I started this lil game to make this more interesting. Since I hate cutscenes, I watch if the group hits spacebar or not. If they don't I play it fair and don't ninja. However, if they watch the cutscenes too often for my likings, I roll need on anything I can. Of course I don't mention this in advance. I then proceed to LOL at the QQ. The best part about this? People start to know me as "that jerk" yet they keep asking me to come heal because they're too lazy to roll a healer. Unreal
Deceive Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Given your character is dark side, should one be able to steal items? You would kill story characters, and rob people blind. You would also rob a player from their chest if you were dark. Edit: yes this assumes the player is RPing on an RP server.. Edit 2: I did not do this, nor do I plan on doing this. I am a victim of an RP Ninja, and was curious how legitimate this is on RP server, this being my first RP server. It's totally legitimate.
Deyjarl Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Only if that person deletes their character after those he stole it from RP killing the ninja character. Edited February 2, 2012 by Deyjarl
thereisdwarf Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 Only if that person deletes their character after those he stole it from RP killing the ninja character. Basically like in EVE online how you could blow up people ships they worked months on...
dwynnell Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 No. It is not. That would be YOU stealing, and you are attempting to justify this by claiming RP. Plus, you will never find a group again. People remember such things, and have an everlasting hatred for such actions. Well this is an interesting question. Given that items bind on equip or pick up there can be no consequences for stealing. Someone is unable to arrest said person, take the stolen property and return it to the rightful owner. Nor is a equally dark person able to murder the thief and steal all their stuff. On an RP server. I would say ninja looting should be sorted out prior to it happening so the appropriate response and consequences can be implemented properly. It's worth noting that on a RP server just because the game mechanics allow something it doesn't mean that you can do it.
Rhinzual Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Well this is an interesting question. Given that items bind on equip or pick up there can be no consequences for stealing. Someone is unable to arrest said person, take the stolen property and return it to the rightful owner. Nor is a equally dark person able to murder the thief and steal all their stuff. On an RP server. I would say ninja looting should be sorted out prior to it happening so the appropriate response and consequences can be implemented properly. It's worth noting that on a RP server just because the game mechanics allow something it doesn't mean that you can do it. Oh no no no, see people will add the ninja-looter to their friend's list and keep tabs on him/her and when they get a legacy name, they will start providing proof of ninja-looting so grouping is harder and harder for the ninja-looter.
GalacticKegger Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) What about the innocent drivers your insane method of "culling the herd" would kill?Just role playing Sith's advocate. Edited February 2, 2012 by GalacticKegger
GalacticKegger Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 not true at all, sorry. I had a genuine question that was a result of a conflict that happened to me. I was curious what others though of this.Then you have my sincerest apology.
Kindara Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 I say its ok as long as you're on an RP server. As someone on an RP server I say no no and more no to this. DO this to any group RPers or not they will stab you in the kidney.
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