Gilbara Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Yes, the title is facetious. Let's face it, the game doesn't even allow for us to creatively come up with new and different unique builds. The character classes all have the same three skill trees, you pick one, and then simply drop your points into the bottom branch, then the next branch, etc. Which stifles all creativity and potential for innovation that makes people keep coming back for more. Wouldn't it have been, you know, 'cooler' if the classes had a skill system that enabled smart, dedicated players to use their intellect to come up with new, interesting builds? This is one of the reasons a game like Diablo 2 kept going for ten years. The players were able to come up with their own viable, unique builds that created replay-ability for the playerbase. SWTOR completely lacks this ability. The cookie cutter skill tree design means players might make some alts to try the other classes, but that's about it. Things will stagnate a lot sooner, then if the game design allowed for players to create and innovate. Just sayin' Edited January 31, 2012 by Gilbara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPaq Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yes, the title is facetious. Let's face it, the game doesn't even allow for us to creatively come up with new and different unique builds. The character classes all have the same three skill trees, you pick one, and then simply drop your points into the bottom branch, then the next branch, etc. Which stifles all creativity and potential for innovation that makes people keep coming back for more. Wouldn't it have been, you know, 'cooler' if the classes had a skill system that enabled smart, dedicated players to use their intellect to come up with new, interesting builds? This is one of the reasons a game like Diablo 2 kept going for ten years. The players were able to come up with their own viable, unique builds that created replay-ability for the playerbase. SWTOR completely lacks this ability. The cookie cutter skill tree design means players might make some alts to try the other classes, but that's about it, and it will become stagnate a lot sooner, then if the game design allowed for players to create and innovate. Just sayin' Yeah the same company is actually nerfing their MMO and turning talent trees into what I can qualify as a McDo menu. You're comparing them to SWTOR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Yeah the same company is actually nerfing their MMO and turning talent trees into what I can qualify as a McDo menu. You're comparing them to SWTOR? try reading more i said D2, and used it only as an example, never mentioned d3, brah Edited January 31, 2012 by Gilbara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPaq Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 try reading more i said D2, and used it only as an example, never mentioned d3, brah I not referring to D3, brah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhysling Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have to agree. This is the best MMO ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 <s>By all means lets make this a template-required build game.</s> You're making me glad there isn't a combat log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparklehorse Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The Diablo series is the most over-rated, un-original, uninspired, smoking pile of a game ever released. It boggles my mind what people see in this mindless clickfest of a "game" and I use the term "game" loosely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 I not referring to D3, brah. oh by all means please clarify what you are talking about then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) The Diablo series is the most over-rated, un-original, uninspired, smoking pile of a game ever released. It boggles my mind what people see in this mindless clickfest of a "game" and I use the term "game" loosely. your mind must be easily boggled then. my comparison with diablo 2 was that their system allowed for players to creatively apply their own intelligence and make unique builds. whether you like or dislike the diablo series is not the issue. the fact is the game had the ability to innovate, which this game lacks. do you agree or disagree that swtor lacks the ability to create unique character class builds? Edited January 31, 2012 by Gilbara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTijger Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 your mind must be easily boggled then. my comparison with diablo 2 was that their system allowed for players to creatively apply their own intelligence and make unique builds. whether you like or dislike the diablo series is not the issue. the fact is the game had the ability to innovate, which this game lacks. do you agree or disagree that swtor lacks the ability to create unique character class builds? Disagree, but then you want cookie utter builds it seems, you can spec any way you want in all 16 classes, whether its effective is for you to figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadaKai Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 your mind must be easily boggled then. my comparison with diablo 2 was that their system allowed for players to creatively apply their own intelligence and make unique builds. whether you like or dislike the diablo series is not the issue. the fact is the game had the ability to innovate, which this game lacks. do you agree or disagree that swtor lacks the ability to create unique character class builds? You do realize the difference between D2 and a MMO is right? Can you imagine attempting to balance a game with unlimited character builds? Do you even realize how foolish your argument is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 You do realize the difference between D2 and a MMO is right? Can you imagine attempting to balance a game with unlimited character builds? Do you even realize how foolish your argument is? your statement is born out of a cookie-cutter mentality which is why you foolishly think I am foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykologist Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Click on OP's name. Click "Find all threads started by Gilbara" Notice huge list of complaint/whine/troll/flame bait threads started by OP /thread Edited January 31, 2012 by Sykologist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magrious Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 This has been tried by other games... it has failed miserably. I bring up candidate 1: FFXIV you could pretty much spread your points as you see fit. What is the outcome? Cookie cutter jobs in Patch 1.21 coming next month. While I love the idea you are talking about it does not work very well. Can it be done? Sure it can, but will the whole player base like it? Probably not, because it ask them to think too much, most people do that at work, they do not want to do it when they are playing the game they like. The people want to be numbed at this point they want something as simple as possible and still be able to enjoy it. We the MMO player are a fickle bunch that cant be pleased so the companies try to make stuff as simple as possible so that the majority of the player base does not have to think. We complain because we like to complain, even when we get what we want we find something else to complain about hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I still think Guild Wars system was by far the best. I haven't seen so much creativity and uniqueness in character builds in an MMO type game. Haven't seen an MMO have a more complex system then what Guild Wars had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 While I love the idea you are talking about it does not work very well. Can it be done? Sure it can, but will the whole player base like it? Probably not, because it ask them to think too much, most people do that at work, they do not want to do it when they are playing the game they like. The people want to be numbed at this point they want something as simple as possible and still be able to enjoy it. while this may be true for some people i refuse to lower the bar in order to pander to that crowd. if it were true then a game such as Diablo 2 would have fizzled and died. intead that game maintained a large and loyal playerbase for ten years, with annual PvP ladders going on across multiple servers. this game is not much different and there is no reason it must be dumbed down and simplified in order to keep people engaged. in fact it is the exact opposite that keeps people engaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 while this may be true for some people i refuse to lower the bar in order to pander to that crowd. .... Well, if it is your bar I reckon you can do with it as you will... but you should leave it open for happy hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTijger Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I still think Guild Wars system was by far the best. I haven't seen so much creativity and uniqueness in character builds in an MMO type game. Haven't seen an MMO have a more complex system then what Guild Wars had. Yes and the nightmare of balancing the skills has driven people to suicide after which they gave up and created PVE and PVP only skills. Also, loads of cookie cutter templates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razyr Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 while this may be true for some people i refuse to lower the bar in order to pander to that crowd. if it were true then a game such as Diablo 2 would have fizzled and died. intead that game maintained a large and loyal playerbase for ten years, with annual PvP ladders going on across multiple servers. this game is not much different and there is no reason it must be dumbed down and simplified in order to keep people engaged. in fact it is the exact opposite that keeps people engaged. I disagree. Please offer actual facts for this. I believe you are trying to mislead the community. Please supply the requested facts, if they exist, using proper grammar. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Yes and the nightmare of balancing the skills has driven people to suicide after which they gave up and created PVE and PVP only skills. Also, loads of cookie cutter templates. dude. of course eventually solid builds will rise to the top and become popular, and then people like you will assign them the label cookie-cutter. but your opinion seems to be you would rather have the cookie-cutter builds handed to you at the beginning, happily accepting a game system completely devoid of player ingenuity, and innovation. sorry, but i would much rather have a system where the players can innovate and create their own unique builds, which may or may not be effective. At least the eventual stable of popular builds will be intelligently created by the community of players. rather then being handed a set number of cookie-cutters on day one that basically have no room at all for unique innovation. Edited January 31, 2012 by Gilbara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreated Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You can still make unique builds, the fact that they aren't as viable as some of the cookie cutter ones is a different matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) explain to me one example of "unique" build someone has made that people are now using? are you trying to say that within a skill tree someone can ignore skill A, and put his 5 points into b, and c, and that constitutes a unique, innovative idea? and will somehow be game changing? don't tell me people are putting partial points into one skill tree, and points into another tree? or even points into three trees? there are only what, 40 or 41 points total to spend right? there are 19 skills in a tree, and you must put at least 5 points in a branch to get access to the above branch. that leaves little to no room to innovate outside of that tree if you ever want to reach the top branch and get access to that trees most potent skills. the innovation potential with swtor's skill system is almost ziltch, am i not right? Edited January 31, 2012 by Gilbara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asnine Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I look back fondly at my bear form, massive bone spear proc necro Or my es enchant bear sorc Were there cookie cutter builds (hello hammerdin, trapsin, etc)? Ofc. But the variety allowed by D2 was awesome. Now how viable they were in PvP was another question, though the bear sorc did surprisingly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSwamper Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It's a bit late to ask for a design change that large. FWIW, I would've preferred them to have all boxes in all tress open from level 10, and you can place any point wherever you want. Lower tiers in trees would required x number of point to unlock the next. All powers would start unlocked, and then you spend your 41 points (as you earn them) as you see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Were there cookie cutter builds (hello hammerdin, trapsin, etc)? Ofc. But the variety allowed by D2 was awesome. no kidding hey. and the new builds were coming out at different times and being refined and redefined by the players. how cool is that? who would not like that? who would rather have 4 cookie cutter builds (that may or may not be any good at pvp) given to you at the start with no ability to innovate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts