Zeigy Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Couple of questions that popped into my head withthe nerf. Is it a nerf to the base damage of the ability? If it is then after crit, surge and expertise what does that truely end up being? 20% of 1200 is different then 20% of 5000. Armor break what imperical data do we have that it was working to begin with? If we had a combat log it would be a lot easier to really look at numbers and analyze what the heck everything means. Looks like I'm going home and shooting a lot of people in the head tonight to test this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostrazor Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Update: KO is now 400 resolve and Dirty Kick has been increased to 800 resolve. The OP is a liar, the armor penetration hurts VERY badly. Class is ruined. Shoot First crits for 2k on battlemasters and follow up attacks are about the same. Checking out Shadow maybe. Were you dunsparrow in RIFT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utuwer Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) What i have seen so far on my lvl 46 scrapper is with flechette up my crit shoot 1st on soft targets is as hard as my crit shoot 1st without flechette before the nerf (around 3k). On heavy armor guys, it is worse (about 1.5-2k with flechette). I dont have time to run any flashpoint, but i think pve dps would reduce alot (look above). KO seems not to apply any resolve. P.S: Sorcs now are the happiest guys. My Shoot First now doesnt even break their bubble. Edited January 31, 2012 by utuwer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellison Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Stop being nerfherders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgecase Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Maybe my math is wrong, but if they made KO now only a 300-400 resolve ability, isn't our max single target CC chain 1.5+1.5+4.0 = 7 sec, reducible to a minimum of 3 sec by trinketing dirty kick (but screwing you if you trinket either of the knockdowns)? Meanwhile, damage after opener and in PvE is lowered due to reduced armor penetration buff? Maybe it's just me, but I felt like the amount of damage I did in chase-and-punch mode was already pretty bad. I think this change, which they claim to be a retraction of a mathematical error, is playing out very poorly. They traded "kills too fast" for "CCs too long" and "does bad damage after opener" for "goes afk after opener". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruced Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Only tip I can give you, stop going after enemies with full hp, or roam with a 2nd scrapper. Yes its a lot harder to take out someone with full hp, but u can still burst down that pesky healer sitting pretty at 60% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wieser Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What will you guys be speccing post-patch? going 3/3 Brawler's Grit from K.O.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunsparrowSolo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Were you dunsparrow in RIFT? Stilll am. Playing on Seastone now. I'm about done with this trash game. Review here: http://www.dunsparrow.com/2012/01/bioware-makes-trion-shine-by-contrast.html They turned my glass cannon class into a glass pellet gun, but left tracer/grav spam untouched. I haven't broken 5k all day while I hear my Commando buddy laughing about hitting 6 5k gravs in a row. I have about as much confidence in them as game designers as I do in leaving my car unlocked in Harlem overnight. Edited January 31, 2012 by DunsparrowSolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAVIAH Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 is it confirmed that scoundrels are the only ones who had their armor pen changed? have a friend who has a shadow consular and supposedly he has an ability that has armor pen and now it does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devhyn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Shadow had an armor pen? I thought that was just guardians and commandos...and one other, but not shadow. But no, just scoundrels as far as I know. Edited January 31, 2012 by Devhyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandanks Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Congrats OP, you can still kill under-geared bads. Now go try to kill a healer or tank of equal gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintan Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) To all you haters!!! The next time you're face flat on the floor and some smuggler/operative is ****** you.... Know that I'm also there laughing at your dumbasz and smiling,,, knowing you will cry to your friends... Edited February 1, 2012 by Quintan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trentman Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 BS your not one shotting anyone you freakin liar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deannie Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) BS your not one shotting anyone you freakin liar The only way he 1 shotted someone is if he severely out geared the other person (which most likely he does since he is in BM gear) or they are underleveled. Edited February 2, 2012 by Deannie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torhent Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Such is life for melee dps. The answer is not letting you insta-kill other players. Sorry. When jumped by a scoundrel its called: 1st) You have 1 1/2 sec of stun from K.O., during that time you should be spamming the hell out your own Stun on the scoundrel to stun him 2nd) When you finally do get stunned, use your CC Breaker to break stun 3rd) When you get out of stun, you should first DOT and then stun/snare/root the scoundrel and RUN THE BLANK AWAY, heal up and then engage. You never sit there and play the scoundrels game and attack him after you have been jumped Of course the easiest way is to: 1st) Never run around alone like a cowboy and not expect to get attacked by a stealther 2nd) Never lag noticeably behind the group or you will get jumped by a scoundrel 3rd) Actually practice situational awareness, and as soon as you hear the stealther sound or see a stealther you DOT him on the spot to keep him in combat. 4th) If the stealther immediately stealths, you use your AE's to pop him out of stealth 5th) If you got detection droids, always have them popped up to bring the stealther out Anyone who gets stunlocked and killed by a Scoundrel now has earned there death due to their own complete lack of playing ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doblo Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Hi there, 65 BM Scoundrel here. Just tested nerf. Still oneshotting ppl. Instead of 5k with ShootFirst i hit for 3.5k, but the rest of abilities still hit the same. I am geared though, i still can kill in one KO. If person is geared he will get up with about 15%-30% but my nade will either finish him or leave with 4% wich will be finished with pistol. Nothing serious. I didnt find it really bad. LOL @ you can kill someone in one KO, and @ 15%-30% on geared players in one KO. I say screenshots or videos or this didn't happen... Personally I think the OP is either trolling you guys, or plain stupid and trying to sound big & bad. Either way I call bull*****. So hows about you post those kills in one KO so we can see this ubberness for ourselves Cynders??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orrar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 all of you really get over it its a assasin stalth class that is there job. if you get them out of stealth they are dead on seconds what pisses me off is the sorc. chain stun cause that is all I run into is sorcs anymore all of the luighting and chain stun really imps get lighting but we dont get anything special? nerf this and that remember when you cry for a nerf your killing pve as well as pvp look at the real issue no dimish returns on stuns and the one they have in pace sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreman Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Is KO still 1000 resolve? No... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcomax Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 And u can not stunlock peeps to.. which Now we'll here more QQ about instead and then we'll Definitely be backed into and forced into healing How can you stunlock now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gouak Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 How can you stunlock now? people think they can stun lock now because you can chain shoot first with the stun. in fact this is what happened before 1.1.1: no cc breaker = dead and you still have your stun up cc breaker up = you still had stun shortly after if he broke the shoot first kb. now after 1.1.1: no cc breaker = dead but you have to use your stun skill. cc breaker up = he just waits to break the stun and not the kb. giving you an effective 1.5 sec stun on a fight since using both puts a full resolve bar... i see this as a big nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnaverage Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I really hope this nerf made BW realize that, with our continual domination in PvP, it was skill all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiviolence Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 people think they can stun lock now because you can chain shoot first with the stun. in fact this is what happened before 1.1.1: no cc breaker = dead and you still have your stun up cc breaker up = you still had stun shortly after if he broke the shoot first kb. now after 1.1.1: no cc breaker = dead but you have to use your stun skill. cc breaker up = he just waits to break the stun and not the kb. giving you an effective 1.5 sec stun on a fight since using both puts a full resolve bar... i see this as a big nerf Doesn't really make a big difference from what you mentioned. A good player knows when to use his CC breaker regardless and definitely knows when to use their defensive cd or escape tools just after the CC break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gouak Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Doesn't really make a big difference from what you mentioned. A good player knows when to use his CC breaker regardless and definitely knows when to use their defensive cd or escape tools just after the CC break. Playing 1v1 I agree it does not matter. But in group situations, since we have so little defense tools, being short of a stun really hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreman Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Playing 1v1 I agree it does not matter. But in group situations, since we have so little defense tools, being short of a stun really hurts. Only tanks do group situations. We're a 1v1 class even before the nerf. We never attack groups and if we fine we're caught by a group, we run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waagabond Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Hi there, 65 BM Scoundrel here. Just tested nerf. Still oneshotting ppl. Instead of 5k with ShootFirst i hit for 3.5k, but the rest of abilities still hit the same. I am geared though, i still can kill in one KO. If person is geared he will get up with about 15%-30% but my nade will either finish him or leave with 4% wich will be finished with pistol. Nothing serious. I didnt find it really bad. No offence, but jumping a 13k hp sorc in greens does not make the scoundrel OP. With my vanguard my HIBs crit for 3k+ and I have 30m range, sure a 15 sec cd but I have 45% chance to reset them on a stockstrike or 30% chance on an ion pulse. And Im not even full DPS specd. Im full assault but running remaining points into shield, and using ion cell for survival. My point is. As a vanguard running with tank stance for 60% additional armor...When I pop assault plastique and time in an HIB, I can guarantee that my burst is higher then that of a scrapper. But I can stay at 30m range or get in close within 10m to unload all my other abilities. And I can have 3 people bonking of me and just /laugh and walk away, which you cant. The nerf was uncalled for, and thats that. I see an operative and he jumps me. Sure he takes of maybe 3k damage at tops, since Im running ion cell with 60% armor and a shield, but Im dps specd. By the time the operative have taken off 40% of my health he is dead as disco. Ok so I have a tank class and I know yuo guys have a hard time with them. But pre patch, an operative that jumped me would have a fair chance, now..not even a single one. When you as scrappers cant even dent the bubble of a sorc with your shoot first and flechette round then something is wrong, cause you honestly dont have much after that, and need to stay close. Scoundrels interupt is on a 12 second cd. Vanguards is 8, 6 with talents. As a tank dps vanguard Im 100% better at killing healers then a scrapper scoundrel. Im a lot better at killing tanks, and alot better at killing melee. As a matter of fact, I do more damage in my tank stance with assault spec then you do as a scrapper glass cannon. And I just think its wrong. I kind of enjoyed when an operative jumped me and just beat me to pulp, cause I know we have our scrappers too. Your needed to be able to thin out the opposition. A well played sorc with a friend, you would never ever kill pre patch anyway. They just jump, your knocked back and then comes a friend. The times you get 1vs1 in warzones happens but is rather rare. If you are not able to get your target down fast then you die and they survive. I think though its ok with the nerf to shoot first, but I think flechette round should keep 50% armor penetration and I think Sucker punch should have its damage increased by 15% Thats it, you would not be able to insta gib someone but have more sustained damage. 30% arp? I have 90% arp as a vanguard on my HIBs. And high geared vanguards hitting on soft targets easy do 4k crits with HIB on softer targets, or even tanks, since you have 90% armor penetration. I just dont understand the nerf. Or hey....30% of imps play sith inq sorc, since its an incredibly overpowered class, and they dont want someone to ruin their fun. A rogue in wow or assasin classes in dark age of camelot, or lets look at the witch hunter in warhammer online. They all did even better then what the scrapper, operative did pre nerf. And if you in battlemaster gear can kill a low geared? You know..when I had blue and lvl 49 epic gear with my vanguard, I was killing battlemaster operatives and other classes. Do I need a nerf? No, the class is balanced. The only class that needs a nerf is sages and sorcs, and thats it, other then that its perfectly balanced. Thats my opinon. Edited February 3, 2012 by Waagabond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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