Cynders Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hi there, 65 BM Scoundrel here. Just tested nerf. Still oneshotting ppl. Instead of 5k with ShootFirst i hit for 3.5k, but the rest of abilities still hit the same. I am geared though, i still can kill in one KO. If person is geared he will get up with about 15%-30% but my nade will either finish him or leave with 4% wich will be finished with pistol. Nothing serious. I didnt find it really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exittium Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 And u can not stunlock peeps to.. which Now we'll here more QQ about instead and then we'll Definitely be backed into and forced into healing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaranth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Hi there, 65 BM Scoundrel here. Just tested nerf. Still oneshotting ppl. Instead of 5k with ShootFirst i hit for 3.5k, but the rest of abilities still hit the same. I am geared though, i still can kill in one KO. If person is geared he will get up with about 15%-30% but my nade will either finish him or leave with 4% wich will be finished with pistol. Nothing serious. I didnt find it really bad. Which just means that the class needs to be nerfed further. I'm a scoundrel player, so don't accuse me of class bias. Simply put, you shouldn't be able to kill another player in battlemaster gear with a single stunlock. It's bad for PVP and bad game design. Edited January 31, 2012 by Azaranth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightFreezer Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'm more worried about PvE. People whining about PvP should not cause a PvE hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prettydancer Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hi there, 65 BM Scoundrel here. Just tested nerf. Still oneshotting ppl. Instead of 5k with ShootFirst i hit for 3.5k, but the rest of abilities still hit the same. I am geared though, i still can kill in one KO. If person is geared he will get up with about 15%-30% but my nade will either finish him or leave with 4% wich will be finished with pistol. Nothing serious. I didnt find it really bad. Hi there, please delete your post, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exittium Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Which just means that the class needs to be nerfed further. I'm a scoundrel player, so don't accuse me of class bias. Simply put, you shouldn't be able to kill another player in battlemaster gear with a single stunlock. It's bad for PVP and bad game design. And........ it starts, which really just means bioware and players on PTS didn't test a damn thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paspinall Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Which just means that the class needs to be nerfed further. I'm a scoundrel player, so don't accuse me of class bias. Simply put, you shouldn't be able to kill another player in battlemaster gear with a single stunlock. It's bad for PVP and bad game design. Well lets see shall we, 3.5K from shoot first, total stun time if we also use kick is 5.5 seconds, then we remove time for the kicks GCD and at least some GCD from the shoot first, we are left with maybe 3 seconds, ie 2 skills. as Shoot first is the spike that means even IF we could equal it he would get 10.5K health. Now as I have 16K and have barely begun gearing that would be requiring the dirty kick to do 5.5K damage to manage this anyway so its also a load of rubbish from the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticoccus Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 As Timon so nicely summarizes it: "It starts..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaranth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) And........ it starts, which really just means bioware and players on PTS didn't test a damn thing Honestly, I think they're just wrestling with a flawed class design. The entire concept of stunlock-burst-stealth is awful. It's completely binary by design. So much of the effectiveness of the class is frontloaded, that it essentially boils down to: Stealth Opener + Cooldowns = Unstoppable insta-kill Oops! They detected me out of stealth = Total Failcake. That's bad class design. They've taken a first step towards removing the frontloaded nature of the burst. Now they need to follow it up by limiting the length of time that you can effectively stunlock someone. To compensate, they need to increase the sustained damage output after the opening burst. I think they need to start by simply scrapping the KO talent now, and replacing it with something that significantly augments our sustained damage output. Maybe another Sucker Punch or Bleed related talent. Edited January 31, 2012 by Azaranth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynders Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 So what ppl are crying about now? We were nerfed, what else do you want? I am 100% sure that only very good geared scoundrels/opers can still do the same as they were before. The rest will struggle and it will be noticeable in WZ. Not ever 2nd Smugler/Oper will oneshot you, just random very geared ones and its how it is supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exittium Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Honestly, I think they're just wrestling with a flawed class design. The entire concept of stunlock-burst-stealth is awful. It's completely binary by design. So much of the effectiveness of the class is frontloaded, that it essentially boils down to: Stealth Opener + Cooldowns = Unstoppable insta-kill Oops! They detected me out of stealth = Total Failcake. That's bad class design. They've taken a first step towards removing the frontloaded nature of the burst. Now they need to follow it up by limiting the length of time that you can effectively stunlock someone. To compensate, they need to increase the sustained damage output after the opening burst. I think they need to start by simply scrapping the KO talent now, and replacing it with something that significantly augments our sustained damage output. Maybe another Sucker Punch or Bleed related talent. They needed to leave the PVE side of this alone, I really feel they were lazy and didn't bother to test a damn thing. A class specific Debuff in a wz would've of suited just fine. Or they should've in fact made from the start the scrapper tree or dirty fighting tree sustained dps. OR just offer scoundrels respec's to gunslinger for those wanting to do dps, and not feel forced into healing. For those who like to heal they don't have to take it. Granted that would cause a whole new surge of qq's but "shrug" those that qq will get nerfed and prob offered the same option then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzyMongoose Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 IMO it's more a design flaw with the stun resistance not having any diminishing returns. The problem isn't the damage so much as it is the inability for someone to respond to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skuishe Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Honestly, I think they're just wrestling with a flawed class design. The entire concept of stunlock-burst-stealth is awful. It's completely binary by design. So much of the effectiveness of the class is frontloaded, that it essentially boils down to: Stealth Opener + Cooldowns = Unstoppable insta-kill Oops! They detected me out of stealth = Total Failcake. That's bad class design. They've taken a first step towards removing the frontloaded nature of the burst. Now they need to follow it up by limiting the length of time that you can effectively stunlock someone. To compensate, they need to increase the sustained damage output after the opening burst. I think they need to start by simply scrapping the KO talent now, and replacing it with something that significantly augments our sustained damage output. Maybe another Sucker Punch or Bleed related talent. No what they need to do is just take out scrappers altogether and give all of us scrappers shadows instead. That's what you want us to be right? Everyone should work the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_rall Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 IMO it's more a design flaw with the stun resistance not having any diminishing returns. The problem isn't the damage so much as it is the inability for someone to respond to it. Diminishing returns would go a long way to help. We have resolve. It's already the perfect tool for scaling stun duration. ex. 4s stun on someone with 1/2 a bar of resolve would result in a 2s stun. Someone with 3/4ths a resolve bar would get stunned for 1s. Voila! But for now, we'll have to make due with full duration stuns. To the OP, I don't buy that you or anyone can down someone in equal gear with 2 globals. That's what it would take to kill someone before KO wore off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaranth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 They needed to leave the PVE side of this alone, I really feel they were lazy and didn't bother to test a damn thing. A class specific Debuff in a wz would've of suited just fine. Or they should've in fact made from the start the scrapper tree or dirty fighting tree sustained dps. OR just offer scoundrels respec's to gunslinger for those wanting to do dps, and not feel forced into healing. For those who like to heal they don't have to take it. Granted that would cause a whole new surge of qq's but "shrug" those that qq will get nerfed and prob offered the same option then I'd respond simply by saying we actually have no real clue what our PvE DPS is right now. Without combat logs we don't really know how our sustained PvE DPS matches up against the other DPS classes. Without knowing more, I think that there's not much to discuss here. I think everyone agrees that the class needs to remain viable as a PvE DPS class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkohani Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Honestly, I think they're just wrestling with a flawed class design. The entire concept of stunlock-burst-stealth is awful. It's completely binary by design. So much of the effectiveness of the class is frontloaded, that it essentially boils down to: Stealth Opener + Cooldowns = Unstoppable insta-kill Oops! They detected me out of stealth = Total Failcake. That's bad class design. They've taken a first step towards removing the frontloaded nature of the burst. Now they need to follow it up by limiting the length of time that you can effectively stunlock someone. To compensate, they need to increase the sustained damage output after the opening burst. I think they need to start by simply scrapping the KO talent now, and replacing it with something that significantly augments our sustained damage output. Maybe another Sucker Punch or Bleed related talent. Ah, yes. Nerf us to the point of looking like jedi sentinels running around looking to melee targets that have a plethora of stuns/roots/knockbacks/shields/sprints/30m+ range attacks. Except, unlike the ineffective jedi sentinel, we wont even have a skill like force leap to close the distance quickly. Much success this will bring. I Edited January 31, 2012 by jkohani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Honestly, I think they're just wrestling with a flawed class design. The entire concept of stunlock-burst-stealth is awful. It's completely binary by design. So much of the effectiveness of the class is frontloaded, that it essentially boils down to: Stealth Opener + Cooldowns = Unstoppable insta-kill Oops! They detected me out of stealth = Total Failcake. That's bad class design. They've taken a first step towards removing the frontloaded nature of the burst. Now they need to follow it up by limiting the length of time that you can effectively stunlock someone. To compensate, they need to increase the sustained damage output after the opening burst. I think they need to start by simply scrapping the KO talent now, and replacing it with something that significantly augments our sustained damage output. Maybe another Sucker Punch or Bleed related talent. Why companies continue to develop and implement stealth using alpha strike classes in MMOs is beyond me. They're far more trouble than they're worth to 'get right'. I'd argue you never could anyway, as you basically imply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaranth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ah, yes. Nerf us to the point of looking like jedi sentinels running around looking to melee targets that have a plethora of stuns/roots/knockbacks/shields/sprints/30m+ range attacks. Except, unlike the ineffective jedi sentinel, we wont even have a skill like force leap to close the distance quickly. Much success this will bring. Such is life for melee dps. The answer is not letting you insta-kill other players. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunsparrowSolo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Is KO still 1000 resolve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkohani Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Such is life for melee dps. The answer is not letting you insta-kill other players. Sorry. I know you sith inquisitors would love nothing more than to nerf every republic class down to the joke level the jedi sentinel currently is, and meanwhile you get to keep your knockbacks/roots/stuns/sprints/heals/shields and your pathetic lightning (with snare) from 30+ meters out, but it aint happening. shootfirst/ko+dirty kick will continue to plant your face on the ground. Sorry. Edited January 31, 2012 by jkohani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynders Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 KO is funny now! Even though they reduced it to 1.5 its still the same time. It just works differently. It has a delay on faceplant, the same delay as they reduced the duration for. I find it really funny how ppl fall down .5 sec later still making it possible to kill them in one cc. The reduction on armor is a joke! I am not noticing it even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaranth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I know you sith inquisitors would love nothing more than to nerf every republic class down to the joke level the jedi sentinel currently is, and meanwhile you get to keep your knockbacks/roots/stuns/sprints/heals/shields and your pathetic lightning (with snare) from 30+ meters out, but it aint happening. shootfirst/ko+dirty kick will continue to plant your face on the ground. Sorry. As mentioned previously in this thread, I play a Scoundrel (as my only character). Just look around the forum, you'll see I'm a regular poster here. Please do your best to keep this discussion about the class, and not descend into personal attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunsparrowSolo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Update: KO is now 400 resolve and Dirty Kick has been increased to 800 resolve. The OP is a liar, the armor penetration hurts VERY badly. Class is ruined. Shoot First crits for 2k on battlemasters and follow up attacks are about the same. Checking out Shadow maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkohani Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) As mentioned previously in this thread, I play a Scoundrel (as my only character). Just look around the forum, you'll see I'm a regular poster here. Please do your best to keep this discussion about the class, and not descend into personal attacks. I play a scoundrel scrapper, and I challenged your idea about taking away our burst damage coming out of stealth. If you feel like that is a personal attack, please pm me and let me know where to send you a box of kleenex. Edited January 31, 2012 by jkohani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecup Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Due to this thread, I now have MORE of a reason to worry. PvE damage has been nerfed, and now you say the class is just as strong in PvP if not stronger? Guess what, if that's true then we may be looking at yet another PvE nerf because of it. I can't even say how much I hate PvP. All the years I played WoW it kept interfering with PvE and now in a different game, IT"S THE SAME THING. I'm just so unbelievable sick and tired of PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts