Trooper healing gimped?

[moman]

What are people's thoughts on the Trooper feeling as though it was not meant to be a full healer? I have been 50 for a few weeks now and have almost full Columi set, and heave healed countless HM's with some of those being 8 mans. Most of the time (for the 8 mans), the other healer has been a Sage. Next to a Sage, I 'feel' that trooper healing comes up short. What also bothers me is that in past MMO's/multiplayer games, I have rolled either a healer or a support class of sorts, but with Trooper healing, on a gut/instinct level, I feel as though something is off about trying to heal with this class.

 

Am I paranoid? Have other people had luck with healing as a Trooper?

 

I am sure some of you are thinking, "Well if you are into healing that much, why not roll sage?" The thought had crossed my mind, but this game is very focused on force users, so I thought I'd mix it up a bit, plus I like the concept of the Trooper for story, RP, etc.

[FromAbove]

My main is a level 33 healer-Commando. I also feel that I come up a little short in the healing department as against sages, but then again, I've not played a Sage and have no frame of reference on their stable of abilities. I don't really feel massively handicapped, however, because my impression is that Trooper healers have other qualities that help them be as useful to a party as a Sage healer. For example, if aggro turns on me, I know I'm not going to bite it right away-- I have a few tricks to keep myself standing. Sages probably go down a bit faster, right?

[Justinlf]

They said back in beta that they were going to improve trooper healing, but it's still yet to happen.

[Gyronamics]

No such thing as being out of force for a Trooper. Indefinitely heal with the combat cell (ok not a massive amount but it can top up characters with no use of ammo so you can have everyone at full health AND save for big burst hits) and unlike the Sage it has a fast in-battle ammo regen.

 

Supercharge Cells for when the **** hits the fan (adds overrunning the group)? Sage cant crank it to 11 because their dial stops at 10.

 

Kolto Bomb costs very little and can be cast every 6 seconds to heal 3. Better targeting of small group healing than very expensive massive group healing on a sage? Massive grouping may even be impossible because some bosses really discourage grouping up with AOE attacks.

 

I believe all healers are viable in their own way. Don't choose one method of healing as the decider for how viable all healing classes are.

[flyersfan]

I believe all healers are viable in their own way. Don't choose one method of healing as the decider for how viable all healing classes are.

 

I agree with this. I've come to learn that all healers can heal properly, but they may be best at different roles. I also love the Operative's healing. It's really fun and is very different from my Combat Medic.

[Aaoogaa]

Love being a trooper healer. The only things that I want to change are:

 

1 - Ability lag with the extra mechanics cause us to waste GCDs during the most intense fighting for stuff to activate. Does not happen all the time but effects us more than Sages due to the extra activations to maintain maximum effect.

 

2- We don't build supercharge charges during the 10 seconds we activate supercharge...nowhere does it say "except while supercharged" imo this needs to be changed and we should build charges while this ability is up.

 

I do not feel gimped in the least.

[moman]

Love being a trooper healer. The only things that I want to change are:

 

1 - Ability lag with the extra mechanics cause us to waste GCDs during the most intense fighting for stuff to activate. Does not happen all the time but effects us more than Sages due to the extra activations to maintain maximum effect.

 

2- We don't build supercharge charges during the 10 seconds we activate supercharge...nowhere does it say "except while supercharged" imo this needs to be changed and we should build charges while this ability is up.

 

I do not feel gimped in the least.

 

True. I would like some minor changes/buffs. Our super charge can is a real money make, I would either like to be able to build it up a bit faster for have it last 15, instead of 10 seconds.

[roflstones]

http://imgur.com/b7vnL

 

Trooper healing for you. Anyone who says we are bad at pvp is either bad or doesn't understand the class.

 

PvE is another story.

 

For the ones that can't read it, it's 643k I average around 400-500k a game. I don't have a single BM gear piece and I'm rank 55 with 530 expertise.

 

For Pve we need our AoE heal to be stronger just a little bit. Maybe heal 4 at a time and we're good.

Edited January 31, 2012 by roflstones

[Pestwulf]

I definitely feel my Trooper does not heal anywhere near the ability of a sage.

 

Comparing the two, one of the biggest advantages a Sage has is Force Armor. That ability negates pushback for one thing, and for another it's giving them the equivalent of three early heals.

 

The Trooper Adv Med Probe/ Med Probe combo is pretty much all a trooper has to work with until mid-game. That alone is a big difference maker.

 

But to focus on the Trooper instead of a Sage envy post, I'd like to add a few things that I've found are really limiting for me.

 

The first is Kolto Bomb. At level 29 my group is running over 5k hitpoints and my Kolto bomb hits for around 350hp non-crit. It may be a low cost heal as someone pointed out, but it is a joke heal. The only practical value it has is getting the 10% healing boost talent on it to make your probes more potent.

 

In addition, there is a talent that increases our Kolto bomb by 20% but they chose not to put that into the healing tree. It is still accessible by a fully Heal spec'd trooper, but by putting into a different tree, it means if you want your area to be better, you have to sacrifice advancing your healing tree and thus delaying bacta infusion by two levels.

 

Another issue is our tier 6 ability. It increases healing crit values by 15% for 5 points, when instead we desperately need it to increase healing values themselves. I say this because of my current medics situation.

 

My group has over 5k hp each. My Medical Probe heals for around 800hp. If I crit, I can heal one fifth of their bar. This is horrible and almost guarantees I have to go into healing spam mode in difficult situations. The addition of trauma probe is pretty much mandatory.

 

Another thing I don't care for is that the HOT on our med probe is attached to the Adv. Probe, which is on a 12 second cooldown. This means we can't use it normally unless we pop out our SuperCharge cells which will allow it to have no cooldown, which coincidentally has no synergy with building Cells, only the Med Probe will build cells.

 

I would much rather see our only HOT be moved to the Med pack instead which will give our healing some longevity and allow us a little more leeway to throw some damage around, or a little more leeway in our spam healing mode.

 

Overall, the biggest problem though is the values at which we heal. I don't know if they are scaling it to 50 purple maxed out gear or what, but healing 800hp as a high end heal value on a person with over 5k hitpoints is just too low. Additionally Kolto Bomb healing around 350hp, even if it is area, is just a joke, adding 10% for super charged cells and 20% for the two points in another tree, STILL leaves it as a joke.

 

I would rather see Kolto Bomb become a more long term healing modifier buff than what it is currently. I throw it once on the tank in a hard fight for the 10% healing bonus and then try like hell to catch back up to the damage everyone is taken until my supercharge cells is up.

 

This only comes into play on Heroic 4 missions and such, and I understand that my party members have to be using their abilities to help me heal them..but I still feel our values are too low, that our tools are to few and that our tree (and other trees) lack a specialization into what we are specializing in. 20% to kolto bomb should be in the healing tree, period.

 

 

I would also add that the Sage is a much more lade back healing sytle and not nearly as frantic as the commando. They are not reliant on a supercharge cell ability to be effective and their early ability. Their Force Potency ability they get at level 8 granting 2 charges of a 60% boost to crit (only consumed when crit or time runs out) is a huge benefit to spam healing to get back on top. That ability is just incredible for a 90 sec. cooldown.

 

I also feel a bit jilted that Sages can pull out an 18% Permanent boost to all healing in their heal tree, while troopers bonuses are split and generally lower. 6% to Probe and Adv.probe, 10% boost to 3 allies you hit with Kolto bomb for 15 seconds, and 3% to all healing if Combat Support Cell is at 30 charges...And that's it. That's what troopers get for boosting their heals in the healing tree.

 

There are a couple crit increases and crit magnitude increases, but that is basically unreliable healing. The 18% the Sage gets 100% of the time with no conditionals, along with the extra tools makes for a much better and easier healing experiences.

 

Love my trooper, I can heal with my trooper...but I completely agree we are inferior healing. I would say that the trooper has the advantage in short burst spam healing with supercharge cells active. Not in Values, but in conservation of resources. Our values are still on the low side.

 

Oh, my guy is in pretty much all crafted gear with my gun being the only mod'd gear I have. Using a crap load of money to ensure my gun is at the highest ratings I can get every couple of levels. (I have not gone for all augment crit gear and won't until 50). So my heal values won't be the highest possible for the level, but they will be in the top 10 to 15 percent.

[Lileth]

I think yes our AE healing is non-existant. However, our single target burst healing is amazing. With SCC it's even better. I will click off SCC if everyone is healed to full so I can start building charges faster.

 

On Tanks, I think Trauma Prob is better than bubble.

[TheRabbit]

The problem is that Sages are excellent at burst healing and have a huge force pool to pull from. Commando healers on the other hand are excellent at long drawn out fights because of the rate of ammo regeneration. So when your group is taking huge spike damage, the Sage would excel. When they're taking steady damage over a loooong time period, the Commando really pulls forward.

[DaveYanakov]

Trooper healing is in no way gimped. If you're popping off SCC every time it's up (which is a lot!), you almost always end up needing to switch around to top off the rest of the group or switch to dealing a bit of damage or else 70% of your healing power will be wasted by the health cap of the tank.

 

Sages cannot come anywhere close to the amount of single target healing and mitigation we can pour out while never, ever running out of ammo. I've healed tanks from 15% to full in the space of two and a half GCDs while they were under fire. Sages only have the advantage in AoE healing and if your team works well together that's not going to be needed very often.

 

Also please note that these numbers come from a 24/17 build. You can do incredible healing and still punch a grav round downrange often enough to keep a debuff stack up.

Edited January 31, 2012 by DaveYanakov

[Pestwulf]

Trooper healing is in no way gimped. If you're popping off SCC every time it's up (which is a lot!), you almost always end up needing to switch around to top off the rest of the group or switch to dealing a bit of damage or else 70% of your healing power will be wasted by the health cap of the tank.

 

Sages cannot come anywhere close to the amount of single target healing and mitigation we can pour out while never, ever running out of ammo. I've healed tanks from 15% to full in the space of two and a half GCDs while they were under fire. Sages only have the advantage in AoE healing and if your team works well together that's not going to be needed very often.

 

Also please note that these numbers come from a 24/17 build. You can do incredible healing and still punch a grav round downrange often enough to keep a debuff stack up.

 

How are you healing from 15% with what amounts to 2, possibly 3 casts? What the heck kind of heal values are you getting? AT best, I've only seen and been able to hit healing crits that land for 1/5th of a tanks hit points with my highest value heal, Med Probe.

 

EDIT: or are you talking PVP with a crap ton of Expertise?

Edited January 31, 2012 by Pestwulf

[moman]

http://imgur.com/b7vnL

 

Trooper healing for you. Anyone who says we are bad at pvp is either bad or doesn't understand the class.

 

PvE is another story.

 

For the ones that can't read it, it's 643k I average around 400-500k a game. I don't have a single BM gear piece and I'm rank 55 with 530 expertise.

 

For Pve we need our AoE heal to be stronger just a little bit. Maybe heal 4 at a time and we're good.

 

Heh, I even forgot to mention PvP. Overall it's fine. It took countless rounds to become good at healing in PvP. Again with my small buff issues, I would like to be on par bit more with DPS with number of commendations in PvP. 90% or so of the time I rank 2nd for heals in PvP, usually being outdone by a Sage and because there are never that many healers in PvP, thus not much competition.

 

hhhmmmm.....Have any Troopers been not spec'd all the way to Bacta Infusion and still be able to heal effectively for 8 mans? I have experimented with this a bit, but the crit heal and 0 ammo cost associated with BI makes me like it.

[Ralphieokole]

Yea I raid with our guild as 31/8/2 spec. Since we cant dual spec, I also PvP with it as well.

 

Any changes I would "like to see" would imbalance us. If Bomb was unlimited targets, we would be crazy out of control OP, yea it is lame it is only 3 people, but anymore would be silly.

 

When we raid, I run with a sage as our other healer. We do very well together. He covers the AE heals, I do the heavy lifting (<3 Rowling), and we both cover splash heals. We both have close to the same AIM/ Willpower. There is a synergy there. One of us without the other wouldn't be near as effective.

 

When I see talk about them improving our healing, I get giddy as a school girl. It means that the Bads are overrunning the devs with complaints. I would put up trooper healing Vs any other class healing in game. Part of the problem is that one of the few ways to measure healing is to look at WZ score boards. So when the poor troopers are looking at their 100K healing Vs the Sage with 300K healing they think they are gimped.

 

On The Harbinger, I have seen only two good Medics (I have played more than a couple WZ's...). I don't think it is the class that is gimped, I think it is more the caliber of players that gravitate to troopers and statistics would indicate with a larger pool of people, the higher probability we have more bads. If it is like that on our server (Heavy pop), I am guessing that it is likely that all the other servers are like that as well.

 

-Roman The Fat Trooper

Afflicted; The Harbinger

[Ellie_]

Trooper healing is quite fine as it is, the only thing really wrong with it is the rancid hammer shot effect.

 

SCC is the holy grail of spamhealing, and the potent medicine talent makes spike heals quite decent(depending on crit and existing surge).

 

The class is very efficient, if you manage your ammo right you can heal a marathon and not allow anybody to die even in hard-mode operations.

 

Trauma Probe and Bacta Infusion are probably my favourite abilities right now.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Ellie_

[JLapp]

The problem is that Sages are excellent at burst healing and have a huge force pool to pull from. Commando healers on the other hand are excellent at long drawn out fights because of the rate of ammo regeneration. So when your group is taking huge spike damage, the Sage would excel. When they're taking steady damage over a loooong time period, the Commando really pulls forward.

 

Which would be great for commandos if that actually existed in this game. But enrage timers exist on just about all end game content.

 

Personally I felt Commando healing was gimped, I re-rolled to DPS and have been really enjoying it.

[Iret]

Sages excel in the AOE group healing

 

Combat Meds i find are better at single target burst healing. Kolto bomb it laughable compared to the sages AOE heal on the floor.

[DaveYanakov]

How are you healing from 15% with what amounts to 2, possibly 3 casts? What the heck kind of heal values are you getting? AT best, I've only seen and been able to hit healing crits that land for 1/5th of a tanks hit points with my highest value heal, Med Probe.

 

EDIT: or are you talking PVP with a crap ton of Expertise?

 

Are you keeping Kolto Bomb and SCC up at all possible times? Those boosts make a huge difference to the point where the main concern isn't ammo or keeping people alive, it's overhealing.

 

Capping crit chance and keeping surge high also goes a long way. I keep a crit relic for emergencies which results in bigger heals when I need them.

[iluran]

Trooper healing is in no way gimped. If you're popping off SCC every time it's up (which is a lot!), you almost always end up needing to switch around to top off the rest of the group or switch to dealing a bit of damage or else 70% of your healing power will be wasted by the health cap of the tank.

 

Sages cannot come anywhere close to the amount of single target healing and mitigation we can pour out while never, ever running out of ammo. I've healed tanks from 15% to full in the space of two and a half GCDs while they were under fire. Sages only have the advantage in AoE healing and if your team works well together that's not going to be needed very often.

 

Also please note that these numbers come from a 24/17 build. You can do incredible healing and still punch a grav round downrange often enough to keep a debuff stack up.

 

Please stop talikng rubbish. As a lvl 50 CM i know this impossible. even if you constantly crit. How will you bring your 20k tank up from 15% in 2.5GDC... So yur avg. heal would be 6800. Even whit the occasional crit thats not doable.

 

As a single target healer this no one will be able to touch you but at aoe healing we suck big-time.

Ex. Ev last boss. Platform jumping. The every 6s KB just doesnt cut it. I am not sure why it's taking so long to tune CMs the only thing they are missing is a good aoe heal. I dont care about not having a CR. Enough others who can do it. But in this way it's bring the class not the player. And in that retrospective they should really take a look at how has done it.

[Daeson]

we had our combat medic in mostly t1.0 and pvp meh loot tank heal through nightmare.

 

You're one and only job, is to target the tank, and spam him.

 

CM are amazingly powerful tank healers with some serious cool downs.

 

Kolto bomb should be kept on CD on the tank at all times for the bonus healing.

 

tank spike? SCC and drop kolto and advanced on the tank, now he's super man.

 

Dont tab, dont multi heal, you have sages and smugs for that, find your tank, make him a god.

[Nightspirit]

We need an Uber Chargs TF2 style when we use that green beam for long enough. Make it happen BioWare.

[Rotm]

I definitely feel my Trooper does not heal anywhere near the ability of a sage.

 

 

I also feel a bit jilted that Sages can pull out an 18% Permanent boost to all healing in their heal tree, while troopers bonuses are split and generally lower. 6% to Probe and Adv.probe, 10% boost to 3 allies you hit with Kolto bomb for 15 seconds, and 3% to all healing if Combat Support Cell is at 30 charges...And that's it. That's what troopers get for boosting their heals in the healing tree.

 

There are a couple crit increases and crit magnitude increases, but that is basically unreliable healing. The 18% the Sage gets 100% of the time with no conditionals, along with the extra tools makes for a much better and easier healing experiences.

 

Love my trooper, I can heal with my trooper...but I completely agree we are inferior healing. I would say that the trooper has the advantage in short burst spam healing with supercharge cells active. Not in Values, but in conservation of resources. Our values are still on the low side.

 

Oh, my guy is in pretty much all crafted gear with my gun being the only mod'd gear I have. Using a crap load of money to ensure my gun is at the highest ratings I can get every couple of levels. (I have not gone for all augment crit gear and won't until 50). So my heal values won't be the highest possible for the level, but they will be in the top 10 to 15 percent.

 

Sage gets 2% to healing, 10% to the one 31 pt aoe heal, and 6% to bonus healing from stats. That's not close to 18% off the top.

[quaesitor]

One problem I have:

 

Kolto bomb is just extremely awkward to use. I really dislike the idea of a template heal, especially considering that template-effects are bugged at the moment, and sometimes cancel if you try to ready your template while a previous spell is casting.

[Pestwulf]

Sage gets 2% to healing, 10% to the one 31 pt aoe heal, and 6% to bonus healing from stats. That's not close to 18% off the top.

 

my bad for the misinformation, it was unintentional. it's 18% for the area's and 8% for the other healing. I may be missing something about the bonus healing, but the value for the heals are based off of the stat's anyway, so it appears that a 6% bonus to healing based off of stats is the same as a 6% bonus to healing, unless there is a heal ability that has hard coded values which doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Either way, I like it. Despite the talk of the trooper being a better single target healer (which I also stated as my opinion too), I still think the sage is the better party healer. Trooper likely wins out in operations where you can afford to specialize down to a single role of spam healing a tank.

 

But in 4-man's the Sage is better at general single target healing, area healing and they can do well at spam healing for short amounts of time.

 

Before I get flamed for something I didn't say, I will repeat that I think my trooper is not gimped. I do however have the opinion that the Sage is a better overall healer and that my BIGGEST problem with the trooper is the base healing value should scale a little higher than it currently is. I do not like that between level 30 and level 50 I get one upgrade to my main healing probe and that the upgrade is only approximately 150 points.

 

I currently am healing a 6k hitpoint tank with a heal that does about 800 to 850 before non crit. I would prefer to see that value increase at least two more times, if not three before I reach level 50.