Please, Don't Roll on Items for Another Class in Your Team

[Creed_Buhallin]

Or just say to us: when you get a better weapon you and your pet can use? who takes it? You or it?

That's kind of a loaded question since the nature of the companions you use means there won't often be a ton of overlap in need. But if there's something truly equally useful, it will depend on the item. A good Endurance Enhancement, for instance, I'll totally put on Kaliyo - she tanks for my Sniper, her HP matters more than mine. If it's a damage issue, I'll usually keep it, because it's what the Sniper does.

 

<shrug> Honestly, if you're just taking anything decent that drops and suiting your companion in random trash greens you're hurting yourself. It really does make a difference.

[sjmc]

Or just say to us: when you get a better weapon you and your pet can use? who takes it? You or it?

Difficult question as the only companion that uses the same weapon as me doesn't do very good dps.

 

All things being equal, I (smuggler) would sooner have a new Techstaff for Akaavi Spar than a new blaster for myself. In any event, I am quite happy with my level 42 PVP blaster and am not looking to upgrade it (beyond generic mods). Akaavi, however, does need a new Techstaff.

 

EDIT: As a matter of general interest, who else uses techstaffs that I would be competing against?

 

In fact, I like most of my level 40 PVP armor, so my primary needs for upgrades would be +AIM heavy armor for Akaavi or whatever mods drop.

Edited February 1, 2012 by sjmc

[Lekinf]

sure it make, i am not saying that it is unuseful, you actually can say need to anything, you will have more money and pet stronger, but that's bad for other players and the goal of bioware must be to find a system wich is good for the most. Edited February 1, 2012 by Lekinf

[AKfourtyseven]

As it happens they are not locked out of player vs player combat that occurs out in the open world (on pvp servers). Having a poorly-geared companion could seriously disadvantage you. A great deal (sometimes most) of my dps comes from my companion. Her dps goes down substantially when she outlevels her gear.

 

PVP could happen as soon as I leave the group, whether or not I am planning to group or solo after this.

 

I never said they were locked out of open world PvP, check my post if you doubt that. I said they were locked from Ilum (i know this because i play on a PvP server myself).

 

I find it shocking that people honestly are trying to argue that a companion is not secondary to their main character with regards to hierarchy of needs and loot. Honestly, if you get your first BM mainhand weapon are you taking it for yourself or giving it to your pet? Lets be serious.

 

Now as for evidence that compaions are by design there only to support group play by design?

 

Group Role

 

Finding certain roles for group content can sometimes be a difficult task in massively multiplayer games.

 

Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ features a large amount of group content, including Heroic Quests (challenging quests requiring 2 or 4 players to complete) and Flashpoints (highly engaging instanced story content for groups of 4 players). One benefit we’re seeing from our new, fully featured companions is additional flexibility about how players approach group content. A full group in The Old Republic always has four players. Any player leaving the group can be substituted by a companion of the group’s choice, with the party leader in control of which player gets to use their companion.

 

If a player leaves the group or its proximity, to travel to a vendor for instance, he is able to summon his companion for the journey. Upon reentering proximity of the group, the companion is automatically dismissed. The remaining group can temporarily substitute the missing player with one of their companions if desired.

 

A common situation familiar to MMO players is the departure of a member halfway through a quest or instance (As a personal example: I once abandoned a group in the middle of an instance when my washing machine caught fire. These things happen!). This could potentially ruin the game experience for all involved parties, but with the ability to substitute a companion in this situation, an experienced group of players will often be able to mitigate the impact of this event and continue their adventure.

 

While companions certainly don’t have the impressive AI to be able to mimic most human players, the option to micromanage a companion’s ability use on the companion bar in crucial battles will enable experienced groups to successfully complete their mission, even after losing a group member.

 

Taken from http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20111007

 

If people still dont accept that, cool, continue to roll need for your multitude of companions. As long as you arent teamed with me

 

Edit: So for the last time, if you used your companion to complete the flashpoint? You have the right to roll. if he didnt help kill the boss? He has no priority on a need roll. Very simple concept

Edited February 1, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[AsheraII]

Try to complete an operation with companion.

Try to go in a battle ground with companion.

 

Or just say to us: when you get a better weapon you and your pet can use? who takes it? You or it?

 

I dont't think you would like to see someone taking stuff you really need and can't try to get again for a week just because of his pet.

It is the same case for him

Nice try, but:

1) The instance this whole debate is about is actually a LEVELING INSTANCE, a FLASHPOINT. Not hardmode, it's about a lvl 29 flashpoint.

 

2) Companions can actually be brought into flashpoints. I'm pretty sure you'll be upset if the consular who brought in Qyz rolls for the heavy tank gear and wins the roll over your DPS specced trooper. But you said it yourself, can't roll for the companion if he isn't present, ergo, you can roll for the companion if he IS present.

 

3) Modifications in orange drops from flashpoints, like in this case here are extremely simple to aquire through various means.

 

4) Stop derailing this thread with the poor "you roll for companions" excuse when it's actually a discussion about conflicting priorities: Cosmetics vs Stats.

 

 

Really Bioware, could you please rip all those mods out of the orange gear from flashpoints, and have the boss drop those seperately? So people can roll on the unmodded jacket as they like, and on the seperate mods if they need them? It'll never completely end any lootdrama, but it will definitely stop this debate about nothing.

[rzrknight]

Ty BW for the ignore option.

 

They do you ignore /kick or ignore whole party / leave.

 

It is so simple. All i wish is that ignore was on acc and not on char so i would never see the person again for sure.

[crica]

But I do get to choose to not have you in my group anymore.

 

Translation: I am not going to help you run a FP because you want to use the same gear I want to use!

 

Fine, don't help anyone run a FP who wants to use the same gear you want to use.

 

That doesn't need a thread.

 

Just tell the players who join the groups you join that you refuse to help them run a FP if they want to use the same gear you want to use and your problem is solved.

Edited February 1, 2012 by crica

[Sai-to]

Nice attempt. Please carefully re-read what i wrote. I stated that companions are secondary to your main, actual character (if they were not, the very concept of locking them out of player vs player would be unthinkable). This does not mean companions arent allowed to get loot from FP's, it means that they do not get priority over a player controlled character.

 

 

I personally agree that if I'm not using my companion in a group, I shouldn't roll for them without asking.

 

However, you really have no basis to state that companions are secondary. That's your opinion, and not one shared by everyone. You really have no right to dictate who gets priority for what (unless you're the group leader and everyone agrees to your rules).

[TheFieryBalrog]

If a player makes it clear they're rolling need on companion gear and aesthetic gear, then I roll need too, since I do in fact need the money. That isn't any lesser a need than companions and aesthetics.

 

Otherwise, I will only roll need on character upgrades since I consider that to be a higher level of need.

[SaiAkuto]

It should just boil down to a few key points:

1) Piece of gear has stat X, stat X is primary stat for class Y, class Y gets priority roll.

2) If two are class Y, then gear piece Z can be rolled on by both Y.

3) If a mod from gear piece is greatly better than yours, whisper player Y and ask if you can roll as well.

4) If conditions 1 and 2 are not met by any party member, then Need for the mod, generally it is good to ask first.

5) If you want the piece for a companion, ask the person (if they met condition 1 or 2) if you can roll for your companion.

 

That about sums up loot rules. There are more in-depth things such as: "Oh, his piece of gear is almost equal to that, and mine is much worse, I should get the loot!" This does not matter unless you are running with friends/guildies.

 

In a PUG, everybody is "equal," so go based off priority conditions.

Edited February 1, 2012 by SaiAkuto

[Sai-to]

It should just boil down to a few key points:

1) Piece of gear has stat X, stat X is primary stat for class Y, class Y gets priority roll.

2) If two are class Y, then gear piece Z can be rolled on by both Y.

3) If a mod from gear piece is greatly better than yours, whisper player Y and ask if you can roll as well.

4) If conditions 1 and 2 are not met by any party member, then Need for the mod, generally it is good to ask first.

5) If you want the piece for a companion, ask the person (if they met condition 1 or 2) if you can roll for your companion.

 

That about sums up loot rules. There are more in-depth things such as: "Oh, his piece of gear is almost equal to that, and mine is much worse, I should get the loot!" This does not matter unless you are running with friends/guildies.

 

In a PUG, everybody is "equal," so go based off priority conditions.

 

 

Again, that's your opinion of how it should be. And if that's the way you want it to be, then make that clear to your group by stating loot rules. For example: "Only roll need on equipment for your role unless you ask". It takes a couple of seconds to type, and lays out the rules for everyone (since not everyone has the same opinions).

 

However, your priority system does not take into account Orange gear. Orange gear doesn't have any inherent stats. If a piece of heavy armor Orange gear drops, anyone who can use it and likes the look has a right to roll on it.

[Revenaught]

It should just boil down to a few key points:

1) Piece of gear has stat X, stat X is primary stat for class Y, class Y gets priority roll.

2) If two are class Y, then gear piece Z can be rolled on by both Y.

3) If a mod from gear piece is greatly better than yours, whisper player Y and ask if you can roll as well.

4) If conditions 1 and 2 are not met by any party member, then Need for the mod, generally it is good to ask first.

5) If you want the piece for a companion, ask the person (if they met condition 1 or 2) if you can roll for your companion.

 

That about sums up loot rules. There are more in-depth things such as: "Oh, his piece of gear is almost equal to that, and mine is much worse, I should get the loot!" This does not matter unless you are running with friends/guildies.

 

In a PUG, everybody is "equal," so go based off priority conditions.

 

Or since it's a PUG everyone who can make a use of the item in whatever manner feels free to roll on it. May the winner enjoy.

[Palathas]

Personally I won't NEED an item unless it's an upgrade for a currently worn item. I can however see why some would NEED on everything due to the fact that when you have a full companion stable they can pretty much use all items.

 

I still wish that everyone would only NEED an item if it was an upgrade to a currently worn item though.

[Eternalnight]

Translation: I am not going to help you run a FP because you want to use the same gear I want to use!

 

Fine, don't help anyone run a FP who wants to use the same gear you want to use.

 

That doesn't need a thread.

 

Just tell the players who join the groups you join that you refuse to help them run a FP if they want to use the same gear you want to use and your problem is solved.

 

That's not accurate way to describe my position. It also depends what you want to use it for.

 

I would not ask someone who plays same class as me to not to need roll something.

I have many times helped people run a FP who play the same class as me, and therefore want to use the same gear as I do.

I don't have any problem with that at all. They are very much welcome to roll the same gear as I do.

 

Now if someone wants to use the item to make their companion look pretty or "use" the item to earn credits from selling it to vendor, even when I want to use it as an upgrade for my main character, then of course I'm not going to help them run a FP.

 

It's not like I'm even being selfish here. I'm not changing the rules into my favor. I'm only setting up rules that will be same for everyone. If I tell someone not to roll for their companion over my main character, then I'm also not going to roll for my companion over his main character. We both gain as much and loose as much from this.

[Creed_Buhallin]

Now as for evidence that compaions are by design there only to support group play by design?

Snipped lots of cut-and-paste.

 

You're right - that's why you can only summon your companion when you're in a group with other people.

 

Wait, what? I actually CAN summon my companion when I'm solo? Huh. Why would they allow that for an element that's only there to support group play?

 

This is an amusing pivot from the standard, though. People have been arguing for many, many pages "Fine, good luck completing the flashpoint with your companion!" - to the point that once they carry out their threats and we can't get a group, we'd get our just desserts because we'd have to run it with our companions, who of course couldn't complete it well enough. Now you're arguing that we're SUPPOSED to be doing exactly that, because companions are there to support group play only?

 

You really should take a bit longer to compose your thoughts, because not only are you drawing wild conclusions that really aren't supported by ANYTHING you're putting forward, I'm not even sure you're still maintaining whatever internal consistency you had to start with.

[LogicalPremise]

I can see both sides of the argument and both have made valid points concerning their style of play and what they want.

 

I disagree and strongly. The more I listen, the more convinced I am that both sides of this discussion have put forth completely flawed arguments.

 

I'm certainly not going to do a precis, but the very ugly bottom line is that this is not an issue of facts, but rather of personal opinions. BW probably didn't lock things down in the hopes that people would have the flexibility to do what they liked with gear they won and just assumed the old NBG rules would apply, without stopping to think that the game would be attracting a large group of people who never, ever had to DEAL with NBG rules before.

 

The only fairness is having some kind of looting rules setup screen upon party creation, and setting your own personal loot settings, and then when you LFG only bringing up groups that agree with your looting personal views. If you want to need on companions/for appearance in a group with 3 that don't, you do not have the right to do so, and you need to leave. If you want to demand people follow strict NBG but the other 3 don't, you have no right to enforce your wishes on others, and you need to leave.

 

The pro-need people will no doubt say "you should never be able to force me to play a way I don't want to", but MMO's are about group utility, NOT single-person utility, and that simply can't be argued. Your companion may indeed be saving your life in solo play, but if they never enter any group content you do play in, then quite frankly you are a loss leader in terms of group utility vs. loot.

 

The anti-need people will attempt to suggest that the system was "clearly" set up some way, but absolutely nothing about the system is clear, including companion-only drops in raids in which companion's can't enter, such as electrostaffs which NO CLASS is able to use to full effect (you can't use all your skills with such a device).

 

I wish people would start discussing how to effectively group pro-need with other pro-need and pro-NBG with other pro-NBG instead of wrangling over language, ethos, and tone!

[Creed_Buhallin]

The pro-need people will no doubt say "you should never be able to force me to play a way I don't want to", but MMO's are about group utility, NOT single-person utility, and that simply can't be argued. Your companion may indeed be saving your life in solo play, but if they never enter any group content you do play in, then quite frankly you are a loss leader in terms of group utility vs. loot.

There are several problems with this argument.

 

First, it really CAN be argued that MMOs are about single-player utility as much as group utility. At least it can be since the days of EverQuest have passed us by. Whether you like it or not, solo play is viable and supported. So is mostly-solo play where someone solos their way up but jumps into Flashpoint to see that content. SWTOR, probably more than any other MMO out there, actively encourages people to run multiple classes up rather than sitting at endgame. Solo players can run 1-50 8 times if they're so inclined, and have an interesting experience each time. They don't use the line "It's like KOTOR 3-11" because you can run Cademimu Hard Mode 8 times a day once you hit 50

 

Second, EVERYONE is a loss-leader in terms of group utility in a PUG. Largely by definition, you're not going to see the people in that group again. Therefore, anything that walks off with them - whether it's on them or their companion - is a loss. IMHO this is a big part of the motivation behind the restrictive need viewpoint. People are willing to give up what they don't want to keep as many people out of the things they do as possible. When you open up the definition of "need" to be more broad, you dilute the chances of getting that item you REALLY want, and people don't like that.

 

Finally, the argument that companions don't contribute to the group just because they're not there during the run is flawed. Black Talon is level 10. Hammer Station is 18. How do you get from 10 to 18? Do you run the Talon over and over and over and over (ad infinitum) until you hit 18 and can do Hammer? No. You walk off the Talon, hit Dromund Kaas, and proceed to do standard content to gain levels. Everyone who is at any level to participate in group content has gotten there by leveling, in some part, solo, and they likely used their companion to do it.

 

To try and preempt the obvious comeback: Do you need your companion geared in Flashpoint gear to do that? No, of course not. But neither do you need to be in full Flashpoint gear to survive a Flashpoint. Honestly, if you're still wearing such gear by the time you hit the next Flashpoint, you're probably more of a liability than anything else. We've done perfectly fine with people who never saw the inside of a Flashpoint before they joined us. As many people have pointed out, there are a multitude of ways to acquire just about anything here. Quest rewards, AH, commendations, flashpoints, honestly even crafting can keep you in pretty impressive level-appropriate gear. The idea that the only way to survive group content is with gear from other group content - and therefore something that isn't for group content is inferior should pass - is just as wrong as the other ideas people have dragged in from other games.

[Setanian]

No.

 

Unless your companion was present to kill said boss then it was secondary because it played no active role in the acquisition of the loot that you are now rolling on. If this were not the case then you would be allowed to log off, switch alts, enter a instance and collect loot. You cant. This is because only the people involved in killing a boss deserve the rewards. If only the character present deserves the loot by game design then how can people have difficulty understanding that a character controlled by a player 100% of the time has priority over a AI assisted companion that is so obviously secondary they are locked from certain elements of core gameplay? -

 

Your argument for companions not being secondary holds no weight when one considers companions are locked from Ilum. The devs have clearly made a statement they are secondary. Case closed.

 

You're forgetting one small bit of information. If I was there, I get to choose how I roll, not you. You do not get to dictate to me how I should roll, when I should roll, and what I should roll on. Case closed.

[Setanian]

Nice attempt. Please carefully re-read what i wrote. I stated that companions are secondary to your main, actual character (if they were not, the very concept of locking them out of player vs player would be unthinkable). This does not mean companions arent allowed to get loot from FP's, it means that they do not get priority over a player controlled character.

 

You can state all you want, that does not make it fact.

 

You have no right to determine what my companion gets. The pure fact is, and I know you don't agree, never the less it is fact, if I help kill a boss, I am entitled to roll on the loot. I get to choose how, why, and what I do with my winnings. You do not. You never did, you never will. What I do with any loot I win, is irrelevant and always has been.

 

We each get an equal chance to roll. You want to be greedy and increase your chances of loot, at my expense. Not going to happen.

[Varghjerta]

I'm not really sure I understand but I believe the whole need/greed thing has outlived it usefullness, if it was ever really necessary in the first place.

 

Two buttons, roll and pass are all we need. The hundreds of pages of useless blather on this subject would simply not be here if we only had roll and pass.

 

Oh yeah, do away with bind on pickup for dropped gear too. It's just stupid that I can't go sell something on the AH that I won in an FP. Before someone asks, no, I don't care if people gear up fro the AH instead of running some pointless FP 10,000 times.

 

So youre answer when this game has need/greed/pass system is that you dont believe in that system so that is why you will roll need on everything because you can always sell things that is just priceless, and i am so glad that there are no X-server availble for LFG

 

You're forgetting one small bit of information. If I was there, I get to choose how I roll, not you. You do not get to dictate to me how I should roll, when I should roll, and what I should roll on. Case closed.

priceless selfish me me me

Edited February 1, 2012 by Varghjerta

[Varghjerta]

 

Finally, the argument that companions don't contribute to the group just because they're not there during the run is flawed. Black Talon is level 10. Hammer Station is 18. How do you get from 10 to 18? Do you run the Talon over and over and over and over (ad infinitum) until you hit 18 and can do Hammer? No. You walk off the Talon, hit Dromund Kaas, and proceed to do standard content to gain levels. Everyone who is at any level to participate in group content has gotten there by leveling, in some part, solo, and they likely used their companion to do it.

 

To try and preempt the obvious comeback: Do you need your companion geared in Flashpoint gear to do that? No, of course not. But neither do you need to be in full Flashpoint gear to survive a Flashpoint. Honestly, if you're still wearing such gear by the time you hit the next Flashpoint, you're probably more of a liability than anything else. We've done perfectly fine with people who never saw the inside of a Flashpoint before they joined us. As many people have pointed out, there are a multitude of ways to acquire just about anything here. Quest rewards, AH, commendations, flashpoints, honestly even crafting can keep you in pretty impressive level-appropriate gear. The idea that the only way to survive group content is with gear from other group content - and therefore something that isn't for group content is inferior should pass - is just as wrong as the other ideas people have dragged in from other games.

 

Solo vs group like i said before

if you want FP gear for companions then go an solo them and if you cant use youre companion for that instance and instead need real players.

Then have the courtesy on passing for gear that is an update for that player in group content.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Varghjerta

[crica]

Solo vs group like i said before

if you want FP gear for companions then go an solo them and if you cant use youre companion for that instance and instead need real players.

Then have the courtesy on passing for gear that is an update for that player in group content.

 

If you tell me I can't roll Need on something I want from the FP then why would I bother to help you run the FP?

 

So you can roll Need on what you want while I have to pass on what I want?

 

No thanks.

 

I would rather help players run FPs who don't mind me rolling Need on items I want while they also roll Need on items they want as well - it's called helping each other out.

 

All you want to do is use me for what you want and I would get nothing I want out of it.

Edited February 1, 2012 by crica

[LogicalPremise]

Ah, well , almost time for bed anyway..

 

First, it really CAN be argued that MMOs are about single-player utility as much as group utility. At least it can be since the days of EverQuest have passed us by. Whether you like it or not, solo play is viable and supported. So is mostly-solo play where someone solos their way up but jumps into Flashpoint to see that content.

 

I don't think you get what group utility means. I'm not talking about an overall design metric. If I was , I'd be a fool -- MMO's are not about group-player utility for the very simple reason that the team is only as strong as it's weakest player, be that in stats or skill. I have seen, more times than I wish to count, one poorly geared player who brings down a raid with tight boundaries. No one builds MMO around group play any more, and they are all , to lesser or greater degrees, bound by the solo experience.

 

No, what I am speaking of is loot related group utility -- what do you bring in return for costing us additional need rolls that we don't even agree you need. If you are looting to upgrade you and your companion, and the rest of the group isn't using that metric, then we would literally be better served from a loot perspective finding someone who doesn't loot for companions. If said companion isn't with the group then your gearing him up means zero viability in that context.

 

In the larger sense, MMO's aren't about SP in general, but I agree SWTOR has made large strides is not requiring most content to need a group. FP, OP, Heroics are the exception if you run them at the level ranges they are intended for. Your companion and you cannot solo a level 12 FP like BT at level 12. Two people can, but it's very, very rough and difficult. In a situation where a companion is present, then , there is group utility.

 

 

Second, EVERYONE is a loss-leader in terms of group utility in a PUG. Largely by definition, you're not going to see the people in that group again. Therefore, anything that walks off with them - whether it's on them or their companion - is a loss. IMHO this is a big part of the motivation behind the restrictive need viewpoint. People are willing to give up what they don't want to keep as many people out of the things they do as possible. When you open up the definition of "need" to be more broad, you dilute the chances of getting that item you REALLY want, and people don't like that.

 

I'm not going to get into a language and semantics or motivation argument. What I am going to say is that , yes, all PUGs are loss leaders. And your method of loot assignment increases that factor. In a PUG of people who only need on what their PC can use based on stats, I have less to worry about than in a PUG where everyone is needing on stats, looks, and companion use.

 

If I am going to PUG then I'm going to PUG where there is the greatest loot possibility. That's why I don't really see this being an issue, as the pro-need people are sort of self-defeating. Your average PUGger isn't going to want to deal with that. You'll either be kicked/left a lot or group with those who think as you do.

 

There's no argument that can be made that someone who feels they can roll need on heavy armor for their companion when they were light on their own is somehow "better" than the same random person who isn't going to roll need on heavy armor if they wear light, ESPECIALLY if I wear heavy armor!

 

Finally, the argument that companions don't contribute to the group just because they're not there during the run is flawed. Black Talon is level 10. Hammer Station is 18. How do you get from 10 to 18? Do you run the Talon over and over and over and over (ad infinitum) until you hit 18 and can do Hammer? No. You walk off the Talon, hit Dromund Kaas, and proceed to do standard content to gain levels. Everyone who is at any level to participate in group content has gotten there by leveling, in some part, solo, and they likely used their companion to do it.

 

This isn't even an argument, or a logical point, sorry. I understand what you are attempting to say , i.e., Eldren's companions-as-part-of-PC argument. But I don't buy into it, regardless of it's merits. And it's not a "factual" type of argument -- what you do with your companion is your business. What I do with mine is mine. When it comes to loot distro, if your companion was in the FP he gets a shot at the loot, if he wasn't, he doesn't.

 

Trying to set the stage and give him a share at the table because he got YOU there doesn't fly. Using that logic, why can't I come along at some point in time and ask you for some random loot, since you got to whatever level you are at then in part due to grouping with me? No, it does not work.

 

To try and preempt the obvious comeback: Do you need your companion geared in Flashpoint gear to do that? No, of course not. But neither do you need to be in full Flashpoint gear to survive a Flashpoint. Honestly, if you're still wearing such gear by the time you hit the next Flashpoint, you're probably more of a liability than anything else. We've done perfectly fine with people who never saw the inside of a Flashpoint before they joined us. As many people have pointed out, there are a multitude of ways to acquire just about anything here. Quest rewards, AH, commendations, flashpoints, honestly even crafting can keep you in pretty impressive level-appropriate gear. The idea that the only way to survive group content is with gear from other group content - and therefore something that isn't for group content is inferior should pass - is just as wrong as the other ideas people have dragged in from other games.

 

I'm the worst possible person to run this counter-argument past, as I've been doing testing on FP/OP gear.

 

FP gear is the worst possible thing to stick on your companion. In every instance if you get it at the baseline level for the FP, you'll get a green item that's better in 2 levels, that only your companion can use. 2 levels. Furthermore, much of the earlier FP gear is pretty underwhelming. Only the orange pieces stand out, and that can be farmed solo pretty easy.

 

Some companions don't even get much utility from being equipped heavily. Ranged tanks get very little bonus. Melee DPS not much better. I kitted out Ashara in nothing but PVP and Rakata and she STILL can't out DPS Revel in blues. Pathetic.

 

Ranged DPS and Ranged Healers especially get a lot of out FP and OP gear,most of the rest don't. (Oooh, I can keep Qyzen up an additional 3 seconds by screwing six people out of FP lootz, such utility!)

 

 

 

None of the blues you get from FP's are even remotely as good as the blues you can grab from the GTN or just by crafting. In THEORY, the high level FP's are supposed to help gear you for normal ops, then hard mode FP's, then hard mode and 8 man and 16 man and then nightmare.

 

Everyone should play how they wish! I have no problems with you looting as you see fit, but it doesn't provide me with anything extra over the guy who thinks like I do, so it behooves me to kick you and your types and get more like me. Is it a paradigm, no. It's a focus shift. That isn't the same thing.

[LogicalPremise]

If you tell me I can't roll Need on something I want from the FP then why would I bother to help you run the FP?

 

All you want to do is use me for what you want and I would get nothing I want out of it.

 

If you tell me you're rolling for need for stuff you don't need, why would I bother to help you run the FP?

 

All you want to do is use me for what you want and I would get nothing I want out of it.

 

Funny how that logic does not work for EITHER SIDE of this argument, ain't it?

[crica]

If you tell me you're rolling for need for stuff you don't need, why would I bother to help you run the FP?

 

If I am going to use it and you are going to use it then we both need it.

 

If we both help each other out then we both get an equal chance to win what we want to use by us both rolling Need for it.

 

Yes, that is how you help each other out.

 

All you want to do is use me for what you want while I don't get anything I want.

 

No thanks.

Edited February 1, 2012 by crica