Autoface: The reason why ranged is imbalanced

[Jestunhi]

Fine as it is.

 

No need to turn melee classes into who mashes WASD the best to stay untargetable.

[Stealthsultan]

Sorry, if the healer and spammer stand 10m apart no amount of "juking" is going to save you. You have 2 strats, of which you lose in both. You kill the healer first, he just spam heals himself (which you can't do any amount of "juking" to stop) while the spammer blows you up. Or you kill the spammer first, which allow the healer to heal the spammer AND DPS/slow you, you lose again.

 

Try another argument to validate your opinion.

 

LoS through another player is an abused mechanic and thankfully its been marginalized in SWTOR.

 

I start the thread talking about the many different negative effects autoface has on pvp: and all you can focus on is how mad mele running through you makes you.

 

I tried to be civil but now I'm gonna break this out: if mele is so close to you that he can run through your hitbox and your trying to get a damage spell off that is not instant/channeled you strait up deserve to die; end of story.

 

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=163905

Do you see me at any point casting on someone in mele range? How much time do I generally spend in mele range getting beat on?

[Bovinity]

No need to turn melee classes into who mashes WASD the best to stay untargetable.

 

No need to turn PvP into who plays the best. <-- Fixed that for you, right?!

[SeraphValo]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/juke

 

Started as a sporting term in football, made it's way into MOBAS and MMOs in the last year or so.

 

Ah ok, so in mmo terms it's another rediculous sounding term that has made the transition to legitimate mmo terminology. It's almost as bad as people saying qq although at least in that case people are just ignorant of the proper usage of qq. I feel a great disturbance as if millions of makesensical terms cried out, and were suddenly silenced.....thanks to an mmo-wide i.q. drop.

[Qoaa]

SWTOR should add quickslot or keybindable /stick and /face

just like DAOC has.

 

would fix everything for melee and ranged classes.

[Dzhokhar]

The day SWTOR PvP becomes more about exploiting lag to get free interrupts and less about actually using your skills/abilities is the day I stop playing. "Fake casting" and "juking" are just cheap tactics that use lag to interrupt your opponents without using your interrupt abilities.

[iceperson]

Ok what the h*** is juking? I've read you saying this alot already. Are people just making up mmo terms that make no sense these days.

 

for everyone else, it's not called a toon, it's a character. if the mental capacity is lacked and it's that taxing to say the word then don't bother with mmos.

 

juking is his word for "exploiting lack of collision detection and client/server latency to get free interrupts against ranged classes".

[Stealthsultan]

"thanks to an mmo-wide i.q. drop."

 

And your arguing for a mechanic that lowers the skill required to play a casting class; your a strange breed.

 

"Fake casting" and "juking" are just cheap tactics that use lag to interrupt your opponents without using your interrupt abilities."

 

How about not casting in mele range? Or, god forbid: using your interrupt when the cast is late in the bar instead of just jumping on cast immediately. If you get juked by fake casting or mele run running around you, you deserve it.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Stealthsultan

[Jestunhi]

No need to turn PvP into who plays the best. <-- Fixed that for you, right?!

 

No, you just changed it to something different.

 

If you think the following shows how skilled a pvper is then you have issues:

 

WAWSDASDWASDAWSDAWDAWDASDAWDWSDWSDAWSDAZDWASDAWDSDAWDWADSDAWDASDAWSDAWDASDAWDASDAWDWSADSDAWDADSDAW

 

 

Can you tell how good I am from that?

 

 

:edit:

 

I see at least one Z in there, I must be bad

Edited January 30, 2012 by Jestunhi

[Vegathegreat]

I start the thread talking about the many different negative effects autoface has on pvp: and all you can focus on is how mad mele running through you makes you.

 

I tried to be civil but now I'm gonna break this out: if mele is so close to you that he can run through your hitbox and your trying to get a damage spell off that is not instant/channeled you strait up deserve to die; end of story.

 

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=163905

Do you see me at any point casting on someone in mele range? How much time do I generally spend in mele range getting beat on?

 

this.....

[Bovinity]

Threads like this just make me want to quit "gaming" altogether. You guys just embarass me, seriously.

 

I feel like going to play chess instead, but I'm afraid all I'd see there is people whining about,

 

"Queens need a nerf!"

 

"Castling is 'lame'!"

 

"Players should have to tell each other what their plan for their next 5 moves are if they ask, so it's more fair!"

 

"I should be able to bring my computer to the game so it can tell me what moves to play!"

 

"Games should all end in a draw so we both win because it's a game and it should always be fun for me!"

[Bovinity]

If you think the following shows how skilled a pvper is then you have issues:

 

WAWSDASDWASDAWSDAWDAWDASDAWDWSDWSDAWSDAZDWASDAWDSD AWDWADSDAWDASDAWSDAWDASDAWDASDAWDWSADSDAWDADSDAW

 

 

Can you tell how good I am from that?

 

As opposed to 111112111111211111121111111211111111? Because the game is doing everything else for you? How does that work?

[Jestunhi]

As opposed to 111112111111211111121111111211111111? Because the game is doing everything else for you? How does that work?

 

I press more than WASD and more than 12.

 

In fact, I press more than WASD12

 

Regardless of whether you think the ability to walk through a ranged char to stop him shooting is the be-all and end-all of pvp skill, it isn't.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Jestunhi

[Pigdaddy]

Threads like this just make me want to quit "gaming" altogether. You guys just embarass me, seriously.

 

I feel like going to play chess instead, but I'm afraid all I'd see there is people whining about,

 

"Queens need a nerf!"

 

"Castling is 'lame'!"

 

"Players should have to tell each other what their plan for their next 5 moves are if they ask, so it's more fair!"

 

"I should be able to bring my computer to the game so it can tell me what moves to play!"

 

"Games should all end in a draw so we both win because it's a game and it should always be fun for me!"

 

 

QFT.

 

I'm sorry OP but to me you sound like a person who's normally PvE, tried some PvP for your own reasons, got your *** handed to you and subsequently heads to forum to moan and groan.

 

I personally pvp with my sentinel and my trooper and they are perfectly fine. The auto facing on ranged only works for forward 180 degree arc you realise?.. all you gotta do is get behind the caster and they can't "SEE" you.

 

You want something to moan about I'd LOVE to see autofacing for melee!!

[iceperson]

I press more than WASD and more than 12.

 

In fact, I press more than WASD12

 

Regardless of whether you think the ability to walk through a ranged char to stop him shooting is the be-all and end-all of pvp skill, it isn't.

 

but pushing his interrupt button is SOOOOOOOOO hard.

use the abilities the devs gave you, not cheese

Edited January 30, 2012 by iceperson

[Pigdaddy]

I press more than WASD and more than 12.

 

In fact, I press more than WASD12

 

Regardless of whether you think the ability to walk through a ranged char to stop him shooting is the be-all and end-all of pvp skill, it isn't.

 

1: Rebind strafe keys (or dont, just use them)

2: Strafe AROUND melee (before he's chewing your face off) and using mouse to move/turn

3: Win

[Xandarous]

I just want lock outs from kicking someone. Make 2 trees: DPS tree and Healing tree. Kicking one or the other locks them out for 5 seconds.

[Stealthsultan]

I'm going to throw down the gauntlet right here:

 

If you are angry about mele running through you and would like to get your casts off in mele range: then a system that allows you to finish a cast through a run through is what you want. However, once again: if you are a victim of a run through its your fault 100% and mele should stomp you in mele range if you sit there.

 

If you want to keep the autoface because you like the immunity it gives you to back stabs and the ease with which it allows chaincasting in mele range you are "abusing" just as bad as anyone using the time honored tradition of the run through. In addition, once again: if you are a victim of a run through its your fault 100%

Edited January 30, 2012 by Stealthsultan

[Izriul]

OP is 110% right. Any one arguing that ranged "need" autocast are obviously either new at MMOs or incapable of thinking on the fly. In other words, needing all the help they can get to carry them rather than their actual skill.

 

In a game such as this, a lesser skilled player should ALWAYS lose against a better player no matter the class. The only time they should win is when they VASTLY out gear them.

 

Anyone who is trying to state that a melee player is bad who:-

 

1 - Needs to first get into range

2 - Needs to then deal with any instant knock backs and/or CC

3 - Interrupt any ability

 

And in the case of the marauder (Can't speak for other melee)

 

4 - Build up their rage to actually do anything

5 - Snare the target

6 - 90% of the time in this game get back into range yet again thanks to the insane amount of stuns/knockbacks/CC or whatever

7 - Deal with absolute terrible delays on abilities (effecting melee much more, since hitting that snare 4-5 times and only on the 6th time actually snaring will make FAR MORE difference since hey, now they need to....get back into range)

 

Compared to range...

 

1 - Use a PvE rotation with abilities auto facing, deal as much and in a lot of cases MORE damage...and especially at the start since they can unload without having to rack up rage like the marauder, while still being able to take as much damage as the melee (who lost half their health going through steps 1 - 5) and with half the classes able to heal themselves (still producing as much dps as a non-healer) while being able to do it all with...

 

ONE HAND.

 

so...anyone actually trying to state the melee is bad (what's even more laughable, some trying to state it's an exploit) while the ranged is what..."pro" ? Well, I don't have much to say to someone like that since their lack of experience and rose tinted goggles don't really understand the real issues. That, or they just don't want to and want it easy for them so they can actually get a sense of skill (which is sad really, because I guarantee most melee or good players would never respect someone getting an easy kill, so it's only for self satisfaction)

 

Now, I am a very long veteran to MMO's (and all games really) I've played Semi pro (Old game, semi being a clan I lead asked to be sponsored, but we refused) and I know what I am doing, more so than 90% of the players. I don't assume to be the best player around, but I do know for a fact I have enough knowledge to speak for both sides of the fence.

 

Also, one can "try" (key word being exactly that, try...though it will fail) that I am just one of these "bad" melee. Thing is, if I am a bad player, what does that say when my lower level ranged class can not only out damage my melee, but produce far more medals at an alarming rate, less deaths, more kills and generally have it 10x easier...after all, you want to say I'm a bad player right?...right? So, what does that make ranged then if I can do that.

 

Fact is, playing melee, especially in this game takes a ton more skill than ranged does, while not being nearly as rewarding and in some cases, you'll come off a lot worse even by out playing a back peddling keyboard turner.

 

So to all those trying to state how melee running through someone makes them bad

 

Do try to explain how autofacing someone while being able to press 123 with a single hand is...skill. I'd like to hear a well thought out and constructive argument to that.

[Pigdaddy]

I just want lock outs from kicking someone. Make 2 trees: DPS tree and Healing tree. Kicking one or the other locks them out for 5 seconds.

 

Force kick?.. there's one.

 

Dunno about any others, but in all honesty their not needed as any competent pvp'er will simply switch to dps or something till they can go back to heal, or vice versa as the case may be.

[Dzhokhar]

I just want lock outs from kicking someone. Make 2 trees: DPS tree and Healing tree. Kicking one or the other locks them out for 5 seconds.

 

So you want interrupts to be more like stuns? Maybe you should learn what abilities are actually worth interrupting instead of interrupting the first thing you see with a cast time.

[Jestunhi]

1: Rebind strafe keys (or dont, just use them)

2: Strafe AROUND melee (before he's chewing your face off) and using mouse to move/turn

3: Win

 

As it happens I'm in mouse look 95% of the time so this is what I do.

 

And in response to the previous post, I in no way agreed with the OP and am perfectly happy interrupting thanks. 4 sec lockout on a 6 sec cd interrupt serves most of my uses but I also have a PBAoE stun, a ranged stun, a grapple and a gap closer which all interrupt without locking out.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Jestunhi

[Stealthsultan]

"but pushing his interrupt button is SOOOOOOOOO hard. all i hear from the OP is whaaaaaaaa, i actually have to press my interrupt button to get an interrupt. /cry"

 

Until you actually read peoples posts don't bother posting in there forums: I am not a mele player, I have posted that several times. In fact I will hedge on the fact that I am a far better ranged player than you will ever hope to be. Here's my evidence, lets see yours.

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=163905

[Jestunhi]

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=163905

 

moot.

 

Post swtor videos if you want to back up claims of being good in this game.

[iceperson]

"but pushing his interrupt button is SOOOOOOOOO hard. all i hear from the OP is whaaaaaaaa, i actually have to press my interrupt button to get an interrupt. /cry"

 

Until you actually read peoples posts don't bother posting in there forums: I am not a mele player, I have posted that several times. In fact I will hedge on the fact that I am a far better ranged player than you will ever hope to be. Here's my evidence, lets see yours.

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=163905

 

sorry, couldn't get through the first 16 seconds (i'm not 12)