Just dinged 50. Gear... um... wow.

[Beakertanks]

Gear advantage is stupid. It's bad when I know who is new to the 50 bracket and can 4-shot them making them a detriment to their team.

 

What is your alternative for pvp rewards?

[Rogmar]

What is your alternative for pvp rewards?

 

Cosmetics. Lol easy answer.

[Beakertanks]

Cosmetics. Lol easy answer.

 

I understand. However, the reward most guaranteed to keep people pvping is gear that gives them an advantage. Once you get a cool title or mount, then what? Gear keeps grist in the mill.

[Jaxxar]

I understand. However, the reward most guaranteed to keep people pvping is gear that gives them an advantage. Once you get a cool title or mount, then what? Gear keeps grist in the mill.

 

You need that advantage don't you. LOL quoted for truth.

[Rogmar]

I understand. However, the reward most guaranteed to keep people pvping is gear that gives them an advantage. Once you get a cool title or mount, then what? Gear keeps grist in the mill.

 

Not really. Took less than a week to get max gear in Guild Wars, yet people PvPed for years after. And that wasn't even a subscription-based game.

 

I have the good gear and I still think the system is broken.

[Superpescado]

People often exaggerate how hard it is to gear for pvp.

 

A few things.

 

1. Ilum/Belsavis off daily commendations, and have quests that provide epic mods, that allow you to pimp your reds, or buy epics

2. People who keep talking about how new 50s have to deal with "luck" always seem to forget that you get centurion commendations which GUARANTEE a pvp piece that is nearly as good as champion.

3. The always assume the enemy team is geared battlemasters and their team is scrubs. Sure, it can happen, but most of the time both team are going to have geared segments. Just like when you were a lowbie in the 1-49 wz (or before), you provided support, you weren't top dawg. Adjust your play accordingly.

4. Champion bags grow on trees. Seriously. Play enough on a tuesday and collect your 8-10 bags.

5. Expertise has massive diminishing returns. You only need like 4 pieces to have 80% the bonus as somebody with a full set.

 

So yeah. I feel your pain, but the deck won't be stacked against you for long.

 

 

A sensible post from someone who has actually participated in lvl 50 pvp for more than a few matches... It will be largely ignored.

[Beakertanks]

Not really. Took less than a week to get max gear in Guild Wars, yet people PvPed for years after. And that wasn't even a subscription-based game.

 

I have the good gear and I still think the system is broken.

 

Fair enough.

[Beakertanks]

You need that advantage don't you. LOL quoted for truth.

 

Not really but if that makes you feel better than fine.

[Foxcolt]

I'm not going to lie..my team actually calls out when we find a fresh 50 in WZ's and we all take turns getting our 5k medals :|

[TUXs]

Easy fix for this would be to just bring back the removed 50 gear that had expertise. At least then, you're not getting hit for 10% more and dealing 10% less every match.

 

Gear makes ALL the difference. Not skill, not l2p...GEAR!

[Mhorlok]

For those that think there is skill involved go watch that you Tube of that Imperial racking up Mega kills and well over 200k Damage with only a single skill on his entire hotbar - you guessed it Tracer Missle...

 

And yes it was in level 50 PvP

[Spor]

I put a post up a few weeks before they put the brackets in that they should have left the level 50 pvp gear available to bridge that gap. It was not a big bonus, but it definitely made a difference. A few weeks (if that) of suffering and you should have enough pieces to see a difference though, unless you are really, really unlucky. You have to also consider that a lot of the 50 games have groups of 4 that are more than likely focus firing people (at least those that know what they are doing). Gear does not make much difference when 4 people are all unleashing their burst on 1 target (except possibly a Battlemaster geared tank in tank spec. Those guys can take a beating).

[Torcer]

It is kind of ridiculous. There should be a new level 50 pvp set to purchase so that you're not getting absolutely donkey stomped by top geared pvp'ers. Ah well.

 

There was a level 50 set on the Capital planet until the first patch. BioWare stealth removed it and never explained why.

[jcyrus]

Your math on the number of coms is off by about a factor of 10 here. 10 Merc coms = 30 wz coms. Its not a 30:1 ratio. It takes about 4800 wz coms to have for bag and 1000/1000. 1 bag = 200 wz + 200 merc => 200wz + (30wz*200merc/10wz). Same metric for the 1000/1000 => 1000wz + (30wz*1000merc/10wz) = 1000wz & 1000merc. Dont blow this pre-50 grind way out of proportion.

 

As far as getting nothing from the bags, I agree that that would be frustrating.

Woops, math in the morning is a bad idea Corrected it, thanks!

 

The pre-50 grind isn't really what I was getting at though. The only problem I see in the pre-50 grind is that once you've maxed commendations and gotten your 1 bag, that's all you can do to prepare for 50 PvP due to bags being flagged Unique.

 

Removing the Unique flag and allowing players to stock up on bags would make for a far more pleasant transition into the 50 bracket. Under the current system, it's pretty much a guarantee that you're going to have to be an easy target for days... or even weeks, depending on how much you play, how much you PvP when you play, and how lucky you get with bags.

 

 

 

Consider this...

 

Per bag it takes 800WZ (600WZ @ 3:1 = 200MC, plus the left over 200WZ from the initial 800WZ). Assuming the average warzone takes 10 minutes, and that you will win every single warzone you're in, it would take 80 minutes (plus queue time) to get enough commendations for a single bag @ 100commendations per win.

 

Now that wouldn't be terrible at all, if not for the randomness of the bags.

 

Taking a 25% chance to get a drop rather than commendations (the percentage is way too high, but go with me on this), that would mean you get 1 drop for every 3,200WZ commendations you grind out.

 

To earn those 3,200WZ commendations, it would require 32 wins. 32 wins @ 10 minutes a round would mean you need to grind out warzones for over 5 hours to get 1 drop.

 

Now factor in that you can (and likely will) get duplicate drops.

And that you aren't going to win every warzone.

And that all rounds aren't going to complete in 10 minutes.

And that a 25% droprate from bags isn't realistic.

And that to get just centurian gear you're looking at upwards of 24 bags to get enough commendations for certain items (requiring over 30 hours of grinding under the above unrealistic figures).

 

Suddenly it becomes abundantly clear why PvP at 50 isn't much fun. Especially when while you're doing all the above, you're weaker than a lot of the other players due to Expertise difference, or getting rolled by geared pre-made groups.

Edited January 30, 2012 by jcyrus

[ghostridah]

After hitting 50 a few days ago and seeing how the pvp is in its current state I unsubscribed. Getting curb stomped anytime a geared player looks at me and then having to have luck on my side to even get gear really tells me bioware have no clue *** they are doing when it comes to the pvp system.

 

For everyone else, make sure you have lots of lube or its going to hurt bad.

[Bregah]

What is your alternative for pvp rewards?

 

Titles, alternate skins for gear (like transmog in WoW), mounts, pets and the like.

 

You could even throw in long (or short, depending on the power) skills that are unlocked via Valor ranks and only usable in PvP that do various things that give you an advantage, but not a permanant advantage. These could be 5 or 10 minute cooldowns that could help you get the ball across the line in huttball, or an extra CC break, or an extra slow, or stun, or whatever. Something to give those that grind out Valor something extra, but not overwhelmingly faceroll powerful compared to a new 50. They could even be "use once per warzone match" or something.

 

In the meantime, "bolster" everyone at 50 in PvP to a set gear level, and gear suddenly doesn't matter at all, and nearly everyone is happy (at least happier than things are now). That way the raiders don't have gear advantage over the PvPers, because everyone's "gear" is preset to balanced stats (let's call those stats current T1 PvP gear for your spec - whatever it is at any given time).

[Kitsummerisle]

Expertise would never be removed from the game, the PvE gear has such tremendous +stats compared to PvP. They'd have to completely alter PvP gear to account for this, which I think it's way out of there control to do something like that.

[Solyp]

So lemme get this straight. I was lvling up. Playing both PvE and PvP. I was doing pretty well in PVP. Def holding my own. Dinged 50 and went into a WZ. SLAM! BLAM! BLAST! POW! DEAD! DEAD! DEAD! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

 

So.

 

I'm just supposed to get crushed for a while until I slowly gear up over a couple hundred games?

 

Really?

 

This is how MMOs have always worked. MMOs motivate players to raid and pvp by rewarding them with gear that improves their character's strength. So in pvp, yes that means you will be at a disadvantage if you haven't spent as much time collecting gear. In pve you will also be weaker but your opponent is not a player.

 

SWTOR decided to make the formula for earning gear luck-based instead of based on player action. Even more frustrating.

[Mhorlok]

Your math on the number of coms is off by about a factor of 10 here. 10 Merc coms = 30 wz coms. Its not a 30:1 ratio. It takes about 4800 wz coms to have for bag and 1000/1000. 1 bag = 200 wz + 200 merc => 200wz + (30wz*200merc/10wz). Same metric for the 1000/1000 => 1000wz + (30wz*1000merc/10wz) = 1000wz & 1000merc. Dont blow this pre-50 grind

 

Wow... talk about making something overly complicated...

 

800 Warzone Commendations per bag (600 to get the 200 Merc Comendations)

 

you can reach 50 with 1 bag in the bank and 1000/1000

So your 4800 Number is spot on the math part is just way overly complicated for a simplistic statistic

 

(200*3) + 200 = 1 Bag from Warzone Commendations

[alanisUDL]

I'm just supposed to get crushed for a while until I slowly gear up over a couple hundred games?

 

Really?

 

Yes. This is how MMOs and gaming are supposed to be. You have to "pay your dues" and be frustrated with the game, "grind" over and over again, THEN you are allowed to have fun.

 

p.s. Guild Wars 2.

[Jestunhi]

So lemme get this straight. I was lvling up. Playing both PvE and PvP. I was doing pretty well in PVP. Def holding my own. Dinged 50 and went into a WZ. SLAM! BLAM! BLAST! POW! DEAD! DEAD! DEAD! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

 

So.

 

I'm just supposed to get crushed for a while until I slowly gear up over a couple hundred games?

 

Really?

 

Given that you are pvping how much have you geared for pvp?

 

There are dozens of weapons of varying levels which have expertise enhancements. No one buys them then they all whine about having 0 expertise.

 

It boggles my mind.

 

:edit:

 

Note: enhancements can be removed and slotted into armour

Edited January 30, 2012 by Jestunhi

[Rachiia]

I'm just curious. Aren't fresh 85 players in WoW forced to go through this exact same gear grind? They obviously aren't going to have anywhere near as much as Resilience (the Expertise equivalent stat) as other 85s do so aren't they going through the same process of getting destroyed BG after BG until they slowly get gear and gain resilience? I realize that with Arena being available in WoW, full PvP geared 85s may not do BGs as much as full PvP geared players in SWToR (since there's no rated WZ or Arena) but nonetheless, fresh 85s will, for the most part, be playing against PvP geared opponents.

 

Are WoW players complaining about this as well? I'm honestly curious.

 

And yes, I am aware of the differences of Resilience and Expertise and understand that Expertise is far more "potent" than Resilience due to the increase in damage and healing as well. I know that this makes the grind in SWToR even worse.

 

Yes, fresh WoW players are required to go through the same thing, and as some people in the forums have pointed out it hurts WoW. If you're new to WoW and you get to the PvP endgame, you'll have to 1) either tough it out for a few months until you get your gear or 2) just not PvP.

 

Many, many people in WoW decide to not PvP because it's not fun for them. There are too many geared up players who you can't compete against unless you suck it up and die a whole lot before you get your gear. Some people sorta see this as paying your dues, but it really just hurts the game, because a lot of people opt to not "pay their dues". So they don't PvP, because it's not fun for them.

 

Do you really want an aspect of your MMO to not be fun for a whole lot of people? If you care about your MMO, you want people to feel like they have a chance. It doesn't have to be ezmode, but players should feel like they have some chance and not just be valor food.

 

WoW also has the problem that low-level PvP can suck, too. WoW allows some pretty OP gear to be bound to the account, so some players in low-level WoW PvP are geared to the teeth. If you've played WoW, and you've leveled a new character, and you PvPed, you probably had the pleasure of being one-shot by these peeps.

 

Fortunately, swtor has avoided this. The bolster system does work pretty well, though, I'd rather see two tiers instead of one at the lower levels.

 

Basically, WoW, though a popular MMO, has a pretty horribad PvP system. The gear and the class imbalances severely hurt PvP in WoW. Just because the game is popular, doesn't mean they did everything right. WoW is a great PvE game with PvP kinda crammed in to satisfy people who want to PvP.

 

I played WoW and spent 70% of my time in the game PvPing. I don't know if other WoW players are complaining - and, frankly, I haven't QQed much in the forums - but, yes, I suspect plenty of other WoW PvPers don't like the current PvP system. If you PvPed in WoW, you know the shortcomings of that system and you don't want the same thing in SWTOR. (Unless you get your kicks lol rolling others.)

 

It's been said and argued a billion times on this forum, PvP should be about skill not time invested in the game. Expertise gear makes PvP very much about time not skill.

 

SWTOR's biggest PvP mistake was thinking WoW's Resilience system was something worth copying. Just get rid of expertise.

[DimeStax]

Sorry dude, someone has to be on the bottom of the food chain, might as well be you. You gotta earn you way up through the ranks before you get on our level, and that means getting facerolled day in and day out until you get the gear.

 

Sure it probably was easier for the people who grinded to 50 and got their first, but the world isn't fair: people have different playtimes than others and you just have to deal with that.

[ghostridah]

Yes. This is how MMOs and gaming are supposed to be. You have to "pay your dues" and be frustrated with the game, "grind" over and over again, THEN you are allowed to have fun.

 

p.s. Guild Wars 2.

 

I think we all know that and we are cool with that, its the whole luck based gear system that needs to change and having more commendations or whatever its called for centurion gear to drop from the bags, if not then lower the amount of merc/warzone badges needed for a bag.

[Dahoff]

It sucks bad at first. I didn't step foot into pvp until I hit 50 (deeply regret this now). I just hit 50 about a week and a half ago. However it gets better after some frustration. I do wish the premades were filtered to fighting other premades to slow down some of the facerolling sessions I've endured. Just make sure you're doing the dailys/weeklys and you'll get lucky on some bag rolls and start getting gear. The system is definitely flawed but I don't mind having to work for something knowing that in the end I'll be able to hold my own because I've earned it. Even though it will come at the cost of my sanity perhaps . Edited January 30, 2012 by Dahoff