Hamatula Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'm just curious. Aren't fresh 85 players in WoW forced to go through this exact same gear grind? They obviously aren't going to have anywhere near as much as Resilience (the Expertise equivalent stat) as other 85s do so aren't they going through the same process of getting destroyed BG after BG until they slowly get gear and gain resilience? I realize that with Arena being available in WoW, full PvP geared 85s may not do BGs as much as full PvP geared players in SWToR (since there's no rated WZ or Arena) but nonetheless, fresh 85s will, for the most part, be playing against PvP geared opponents. Are WoW players complaining about this as well? I'm honestly curious. And yes, I am aware of the differences of Resilience and Expertise and understand that Expertise is far more "potent" than Resilience due to the increase in damage and healing as well. I know that this makes the grind in SWToR even worse. as you said expertise vs' resilience is a huge scaling difference... you almost cant even compare them. in wow yea there is still a grind but with set goals and progression, getting introduction pvp gear was easy... too easy imo, but fair for people to get competitive for rated bg's or arena. bw has pvp gearing in tor a big rng debacle. Wow's pvp loot system was pretty polished compared to what bw has introduced, hopefully in time they figure it out. Im sure they will. They will kinda have to when they introduce some ladder system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manigma Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 moan about 50's and they want a separate bracket. Now moan about the 50 bracket !!! man up, go in with a premade and they can carry ya if you cant carry yourself. heheh talking about premades, can't wait till they seperate them from pugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beakertanks Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Actually, resilience and expertise are similar comparison in regards to the mechanics of the game in which they are in. Frankly, people are full of crap. the old brackets had lvl 50s DESTROYING 10-50 rather then just 50s and that was ridiculous. People want to prey on less capable players all the time. and frankly, you can be 1000, 1000 and hold 1 champion gear bag befor 50. so thats a total of 6 bags befor 50. your odds are a stretch but its a start. Even in wow the lvl 50 pvp blues are a joke, and ridiculously expensive at that. and really the loot bag system isnt that different than wows honor/conquest system when it comes to time. the time it takes to get a full set in wow of pvp epics is relatively the same as in tor. the means are different yes, and people use that as a reason to QQ and complain b/c they mask the logic. new 50s in the 50 brackets is somethingt hat will happen for ever, sure they can add a new set but it will always be lesser and will always be trumped by the higher end stuff. they sure *** hell dont need to put 50s back in 10-50. i see ZERO reasonable excuse for that. Also the lvl 44 pvp wpns come with removable expertise mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethal_ghost Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 heheh talking about premades, can't wait till they seperate them from pugs. will be good if they do its just to easy to roflstomp at the mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSwab Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 1: almost impossible for people who play faction unbalanced servers. also wins don't always count thanks to bugg. next 2: after the price hike on the gear, it takes 20+ bag to buy one damn centurion piece. assuming each bags gives 3 commendations. 3:yes cause pre-mades don't happen right?? lol yes casuse some1 with 10K more health then me is not full geared. 4:this i somewhat agree on. 5:expertise does you give you that small edge you need though. next please 1. I don't see an issue with getting Daily Comms (to turn into 23 armor/weapon mod) on a faction imbalanced server. Most of them come from Belsavis, anyway; the ones on Ilum (6 or 8/day iirc) are well off the normal zerg routes. I just did them for the first time this weekend, so I'll have to check on that I guess. 2. The only thing I remember seeing this weekend from my vendor for more than 60 was the main weapon. Armor was 39, kinfe 24, implants less, iirc. I will say that at 50, I chose to dump my 300k that I'd saved for a speeder on the auction buying up purple moddables/relics/implants/mods. I got to 12.5k hp as a result and stopped melting so very easy. Picked up the champ pieces (7 out of 20 and no duplicates--rng smiled on me) over the past couple of weeks and a centurion knife and am now a survival machine at 16k health/420ish expertise as a healing operative with biochem...unless we are getting steamrolled. In that case, I just pick up medals for the comms. I still lose a LOT more matches than I win, especially against premades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 1: almost impossible for people who play faction unbalanced servers. also wins don't always count thanks to bugg. next 2: after the price hike on the gear, it takes 20+ bag to buy one damn centurion piece. assuming each bags gives 3 commendations. 3:yes cause pre-mades don't happen right?? lol yes casuse some1 with 10K more health then me is not full geared. 4:this i somewhat agree on. 5:expertise does you give you that small edge you need though. next please Re: #1 I'm not talking about pvp quests, bro. How long have you been playiing that you don't know about daily pve quest? Your only valid point is #2, and I never said it was easy. I just said it was NOT RNG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beakertanks Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 You have progressiin on the pve side that is also rng. I know it sucks to lose, but I am honestly amazed atbhow people are surprised by this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionixx Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Couple of hundred? More like a dozen games. If you can't stick it out for a dozen games, you aren't PvP material to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 heheh talking about premades, can't wait till they seperate them from pugs. Yes, then need different brackets for : 1-49 50 with premades 50 without premades 50 with centurion gear 50 with less than 2 champion pieces 50 with 2-7 champion pieces 50 with 7+ champion pieces 50 with only BM geared ppl what else.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beakertanks Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Yes, then need different brackets for : 1-49 50 with premades 50 without premades 50 with centurion gear 50 with less than 2 champion pieces 50 with 2-7 champion pieces 50 with 7+ champion pieces 50 with only BM geared ppl what else.. 50 for keyboard turners. 50 for people who expect to win their first game ever. 50 for people who want tk invest no time or effort in getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethal_ghost Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 50 for keyboard turners. 50 for people who expect to win their first game ever. 50 for people who want tk invest no time or effort in getting better. lol 50 for forum whiners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Shadowfist- Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 So.... basically... "You got to 50 and ground out the gear, but your gear doesn't deserve to be any better than mine." Really? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegathegreat Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Here is the reality about MMO's..... .....the whole point is to become yoda or windu, gear progression is how you get there.....the heroes in movies are leaps and bounds stronger than the peons.....people wanna be the hero and leave everyone else behind as peons.....and skill decides who gets to be the hero and who are the peons...........DO YOU GET IT NOW ? this is what MMO's are, if you dont think this way then MMO's are not for you, if you do think this way then you wouldnt suck and you would practice until your skill is high enough to earn the hero status and get the best gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxxar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I'm just curious. Aren't fresh 85 players in WoW forced to go through this exact same gear grind? They obviously aren't going to have anywhere near as much as Resilience (the Expertise equivalent stat) as other 85s do so aren't they going through the same process of getting destroyed BG after BG until they slowly get gear and gain resilience? I realize that with Arena being available in WoW, full PvP geared 85s may not do BGs as much as full PvP geared players in SWToR (since there's no rated WZ or Arena) but nonetheless, fresh 85s will, for the most part, be playing against PvP geared opponents. Are WoW players complaining about this as well? I'm honestly curious. And yes, I am aware of the differences of Resilience and Expertise and understand that Expertise is far more "potent" than Resilience due to the increase in damage and healing as well. I know that this makes the grind in SWToR even worse. NO, you can craft starter PvP gear in WoW. That is something at least. Here you get rolled, stomped, spit on, and T-bagged. Simple answer. Get rid of expertise stat. Problem solved. Edited January 30, 2012 by Jaxxar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beakertanks Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Yes, then need different brackets for : 1-49 50 with premades 50 without premades 50 with centurion gear 50 with less than 2 champion pieces 50 with 2-7 champion pieces 50 with 7+ champion pieces 50 with only BM geared ppl what else.. 50 for keyboard turners. 50 for people who expect to win their first game ever. 50 for people who want tk invest no time or effort in getting better. Didnt mean to post this again. Stupid smartphone. Edited January 30, 2012 by Beakertanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethal_ghost Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Here is the reality about MMO's..... .....the whole point is to become yoda or windu, gear progression is how you get there.....the heroes in movies are leaps and bounds stronger than the peons.....people wanna be the hero and leave everyone else behind as peons.....and skill decides who gets to be the hero and who are the peons...........DO YOU GET IT NOW ? this is what MMO's are, if you dont think this way then MMO's are not for you, if you do think this way then you wouldnt suck and you would practice until your skill is high enough to earn the hero status and get the best gear ^^^^ Wise words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxxar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Here is the reality about MMO's..... .....the whole point is to become yoda or windu, gear progression is how you get there.....the heroes in movies are leaps and bounds stronger than the peons.....people wanna be the hero and leave everyone else behind as peons.....and skill decides who gets to be the hero and who are the peons...........DO YOU GET IT NOW ? this is what MMO's are, if you dont think this way then MMO's are not for you, if you do think this way then you wouldnt suck and you would practice until your skill is high enough to earn the hero status and get the best gear Except skill has nothing to do with it. Time has everything to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beakertanks Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Except skill has nothing to do with it. Time has everything to do with it. If you think you have the same skill after ten matches as a dude with 1000 you are deluding yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slonep Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Here is the reality about MMO's..... .....the whole point is to become yoda or windu, gear progression is how you get there.....the heroes in movies are leaps and bounds stronger than the peons.....people wanna be the hero and leave everyone else behind as peons.....and skill decides who gets to be the hero and who are the peons...........DO YOU GET IT NOW ? this is what MMO's are, if you dont think this way then MMO's are not for you, if you do think this way then you wouldnt suck and you would practice until your skill is high enough to earn the hero status and get the best gear I think that there are many thing that you say in this post that are wrong..... Many people want to be the leaping and bounding stronger windus and yodas but acutally.......... if you want to be windu then you must be weird becasue I wanna be DARTH VADER ! DO YOU GET IT NOW ? this is why i'm playing the empire side and i think that your post really doesn't make any sense......but it has a lot of periods. Edited January 30, 2012 by slonep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowerslayer Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Get valor 60, then just do your dailies and weeklies until you have competitive gear for your server. Spend the rest of the time enjoying more balanced PvP with an alt. I'm not knocking L50 PvP - it's important to play at a disadvantage against advanced competition, it makes you a better player. It's just easy to get discouraged and flame out. Incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apokalypsis Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 If you think you have the same skill after ten matches as a dude with 1000 you are deluding yourself. ofc but skill isnt as important as other games where you can kill 2 or 3 guys at same time if you are skilled and not only because of your pvp rank. Here 2vs1 is almost imposible, and I have killed pairs, and skill is not important. YOu cant expect other thing from this kind of games but lets not just glorify it saying skill and time is important in this game... YOu get better rewards atm doing premades getting the ball and moving it into the goal and zerging in Ilum than being a "skilled" player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanwa Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 The problem is some people need instant gratification. You know what bro when I hit 50 I got my *** kicked now I'm the one kicking ***. just pay your dues get some gear. Its going to happen just give it some time. I do think though something needs to be done with the champ/BM bags though I'm on a 16 bag losing streak right now. Maybe some blue 50 gear should be added to the vendors. Do you really want to spend you commendations on blue gear? I would rather take the gamble on a champ bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beakertanks Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 ofc but skill isnt as important as other games where you can kill 2 or 3 guys at same time if you are skilled and not only because of your pvp rank. Here 2vs1 is almost imposible, and I have killed pairs, and skill is not important. YOu cant expect other thing from this kind of games but lets not just glorify it saying skill and time is important in this game... YOu get better rewards atm doing premades getting the ball and moving it into the goal and zerging in Ilum than being a "skilled" player. Agree 1000% about Ilum for sure. Facing plenty of Sithy BMs who just flat stink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogmar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Gear advantage is stupid. It's bad when I know who is new to the 50 bracket and can 4-shot them making them a detriment to their team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxxar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 If you think you have the same skill after ten matches as a dude with 1000 you are deluding yourself. This game is nothing about skill. Auto target noobness and time spent getting expertise gear. I know for a fact I would school you in a real PvP game. Heat shot dead. you QQing to the start zone. Get real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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