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I dont think guardians are weak


Metajedi

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I have been hearing nothing but bad things about guardians, so much so that I was afraid to roll one until they buffed em up.

 

But I pushed any doubt I had to the back of mind. I am now level 25 and I have never been happier.

 

I have experienced no problems soloing, I am in full tank spec with Kira as my companion and even elites barely get me to half hp, I and cutting valleys through my enemies.

 

Now I realize its still low level and once you get to Alderaan things get harder but everything I read says guardians suck till they are level 30 ish or so....well thats Alderaan so I expect only to get better.

 

why is everyone complaining? Sure we dont do as much damage and kill as quickly as other classes but we also dont get hurt.

 

I have a lvl 45 sorceror and usually I am down to half hp ( I refuse to use Khem val I hate him ) after every fight...and if I use Khem then Hes down to about half after every fight either way I have more down time.

 

so why all the complaining are we complaining that you cant be both a unstoppable juggernaut AND a dps bad *** ?

 

All im doing is making sure my own and my companions gear is where it should be, especially my light saber.

 

Tanking too isnt that much of a problem, I think that the not being able to hold aggro on everything is just a psychological issue.

I really dont think bioware meant for the tanks to hold all mobs like aoe tank and spank in wow... I focus on the the elites and maybe some strongs all the rest die in seconds whats the point in burning precious resources on it ? Even on my lvl 40 shadow tank I didnt bother running into the 10m range to give some stray mob a project because by time I got there he was dead. So your damn sure im not running there on a JG or wasting a force leap.

 

I do admit that aggro is more difficult to establish on a JG then on my shadow so that needs to be addressed but its not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be.

 

So for anyone waiting for bioware to buff the JK class, dont bother, the class is more then fine it just takes some patience to understand it.

I feel I can confidentally say this at level 25 and I cant wait to get to 30 and get into full swing as so many people to describe it.

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I can certainly understand where you are coming from OP. The JK is a class that takes work and some coordination to play to get the DPS out of. iI enjoy it personally. Seems like it's there, but timing is a big deal.

 

The problem is the class design for many of the other classes doesn't do the same thing. Being a sever Alt-player, I have been leveling multiple toons at the same time, from my guardian to my shadow consular to my sage to my commando to my...you get the picture. Empire side classes as well.

 

leveling them back to back you can really tell the differences between them. I don't think that the guardian class needs to be EZ mode. I like the challenge to line up and coordinate your skill use to maximize the class. But I have also found in many MMO's including this one...that when you have a class that has to work twice as hard to get the same results as all the others...that class is simply played less.

 

Doesn't matter how you spin it. If you think the guardian is great where it's at, i dare you to go roll a jedi sage..spec telekinetic or balance, either way...and come back and tell me the guard is fine. or roll a shadow consular. or a PT bounty hunter and tell me were fine. If it were the only class in the game...yes it would be fine.

 

now...that doesn't mean it's broke. I still enjoy the class a great deal. But there are some minor adjustments that can be made that would still give the same experience, but smooth out our dps and increase our ability to maintain threat. I don't believe the doomsayers...i prefer a challenging class. out of all my other toons, my guardian I enjoy the most aside from my sage. But I will admit that the knight needs polishing.

 

Many of our skills need minor boosts in damage (like our DoT's). plasma brand needs a damage increase to compete with other similar 30 pt skills .

 

some of our skills are poorly designed. Master strike is an awesome attack ( I even like that animation), but its far to interrupt-able. My consulars (shadow and sage) project can do as much damage (close...if you get the talent for it), and it's instant. and it's CD is 6 seconds. Uninterruptable should be baseline, and then you can give a talent to make it instant, or something like that.

 

small changes. increase damage a bit here and there. make the skill that eliminates interruption of master strike a baseline ability. It would be one thing if it was castable. if a castable ability gets interrupted, you simply have to re-cast. if our MS is interrupted, it's gone...30 more seconds until you can try again. I've gotten into the habit of waiting on many silver mobs to make sure they aren't going to stun me out of the gate before I use MS...we shouldn't have to wait like that on a primary damage ability ...especially when were so CD reliant.

 

We don't need a complete makeover, just a few tweaks. Some of those tweaks just happen to be big game changers for us. it could even be staged. they could add a few extra levels of the skills (skills tend to get sparse as you get higher), where the skills damage tiers up smoother. take the top end of a few, inch it up by 5%, and then add a few extra levels of the skill in the 20's. that would add extra damage in the difficult level zones, but not push top end damage up by a ton.

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Things are very different at 50. I'd honestly say Jedi Knights are the weakest class at the moment, in the same way that the game itself is buggy. Not enough that you'd stop playing but you certainly notice. All the same though, number 1 on my wish list is a CC.
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I'm a lev. 29 guardian, and on a rp server, so I intend to keep Kira with me at all times. I have found that the first and only fight I had a hard time with was the boss in the mission the defector. I have kept myself geared up with end. and strength and I have kept kira in the same gear. I have a few orange gear pieces, but keep seeing the defence levels on them not change much when I try to upgrade the mods on them, but in general I don't find the guardian weak. I have found my sentinal a bit on the squishy side and my counsilor just got to courasant, so i'm undecided on that toon. My only real complaint on the guardian is the lack of any inate healing, and as a result the long cooldown on medkits, as well as the fact i can't heal kira easily. If I could just give kira medpacks to use as well as have an ability to cut the cooldown on them even by a third guardian would be nearly perfect to me.
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I felt pretty powerful in my 20's, and even well into my 30's. At 40 I started feeling a little weak, and now at level 49 I am honestly pretty gimpy.

 

I think its because I stubbornly have tried to stick with Kira. I started writing this post because I was waiting for my medical probe to cooldown to revive me after dying for the third time on this mission.

 

I then switched to my completely undergeared Doc and beat the elite boss with 75% health remaining. Its like they scaled all these fights to assume a healer companion, and that sucks, because of all my companions the one I feel least suits me is Doc :(.

 

Edit: Though since I wrote this post I kicked the butt of a few other elites... It's really hit or miss with her. *shrug*

Edited by PhilMeyer
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I'm level 39 and I haven't had any problems that people are complaining about. I'm not 50 yet though so I can't speak from an end game point of view, but in groups I don't feel underpowered, nor soloing do I die. Of course using Doc is easy mode, but I can still handle things with Kira.

 

Of course, then I hop on my Vanguard who is only 21 now, and even without Elara I can shred tougher things pretty easily.

 

I think the biggest flaw is the Skill trees honestly. In WoW it was sort of obvious which talents to pick in each tree for what build you wanted but here, it's not so clear, and often times you look at a skill and sort of scratch your head going "Really? They put that in this tree?". And some things that do belong in the tree are often lackluster, such as Blade Barrier.

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JK isn't broken. It isn't 'bad'. It isn't unplayable.

 

But compared to other classes it does suffer some limitations and I agree is tougher to play. Elyx posted some great examples above. It's also a lot rougher due to getting Doc so late.

 

You could argue that getting Doc late trains you to play smarter: maintain your riposte to mitigate damage, position to parry more often.

 

But I compare the first 20 levels of commando and Commando was much easier. My Jedi Shadow (L34) carved through content that my JK (L50) struggled on. I didn't have nearly as many OMG moments with my consular (L45) because of CC/healing abilities.

 

I don't have an answer on this. I like to think that ultimately my hard work and practice will pay off with a superior mitigiation tank whilst Jedi Shadow will be a superior evasion offtank.

 

The only advice I'll give anyone is: play what you enjoy. Master your class. Stuff always gets re-balanced along the way and ultimately you will have a character whose playstyle you enjoy and will have an effective role.

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Jedi Guardian is not broken, under powered, or unplayable. I have tanked all the HM FP's fine, have tanked Operations fine, Have done pvp as Tank spec and DPS spec and find the results very satisfying. Yes when you first hit 50 you will have a hard time doing stuff, but once your character gets geared you will be much better. I also never had a problem leveling from 1-50 the whole way as tank speced, just make sure to keep your self geared and it should be pretty easy.

 

Tank Spec

 

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt202/hesobaso/Screenshot_2012-01-15_15_59_34_172400.jpg

 

DPS Spec

 

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt202/hesobaso/Screenshot_2012-01-29_16_35_31_130800.jpg

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I've only hit a few hard spots while leveling my Guardian. Nothing too bad.

 

 

Those bastard cyber-whatever and their beast tamer humanoid NPC buddies on Voss, hit like trucks, for example.

Edited by Faolon
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As others above have alluded to, its not that Guardians are unplayable, its the comparison in difficulty and progress between a JK and other classes.

I have played my Guardian to lvl 35 and it is my character of choice, however, it is relative hardmode compared to my Trooper, Smuggler, BH and Sage.

Whilst I personally am happy to carry on levelling (I prefer hardmode), my previous experiances with MMO's tells me that making Tanks too hard leads to a Tank shortage at some stage - this concerns me for the games overall well being in the future.

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As others above have alluded to, its not that Guardians are unplayable, its the comparison in difficulty and progress between a JK and other classes.

I have played my Guardian to lvl 35 and it is my character of choice, however, it is relative hardmode compared to my Trooper, Smuggler, BH and Sage.

Whilst I personally am happy to carry on levelling (I prefer hardmode), my previous experiances with MMO's tells me that making Tanks too hard leads to a Tank shortage at some stage - this concerns me for the games overall well being in the future.

 

No tank shortage with the Vanguard and Shadow tanks available as well in this game. It's quite a good thing this game has made multiple classes able to tank when spec'ed for it. I myself am a full-time Defense Guardian and loving it. However, when playing my alts it's indeed apparent how much more 'easier' the other classes seem to play.

 

It doesn't bother me much though, as I kinda have the same feeling playing my Defense Guardian as I have playing say Street Fighter. For some reason it feel incredibly satisfying being able to get results as a Guardian like winning by a hair from a good opponent in said SF game.

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Those bastard cyber-whatever and their beast tamer humanoid NPC buddies on Voss, hit like trucks, for example.

 

Yeah, this is where I felt the weakest. It was around level 45-46. I had to use Doc on some non-elite pulls, and that made me very discouraged.

 

Then there was the rough patch yesterday at 49 with one of the Corelia missions, but the rest I did at level 49 weren't that bad and just hit 50. We'll see how it is with all these new spell ranks.

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There are a number of classes in this game that make Jedi Knight

feel completely underpowered. Is it us... Is it them... not sure but,

pvp isn't balanced as long as we are left the way we are... and they

are left the way they are...

 

as far as PVE goes... I enjoy the challenges JK presents... although

it does get frustrating...

 

and I feel like Doc is hitting on me... and acting a bit too swishy for my

tastes... I miss Kira... lol

 

My solution was to get to level 38 and roll up a councelor... the story isn't

1/16th as much fun, but having a level 11 councelor in all artifact level crafted

synthweave... is fun :D

Edited by VoidJustice
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Yeah, this is where I felt the weakest. It was around level 45-46. I had to use Doc on some non-elite pulls, and that made me very discouraged.

 

I stupidly attacked 2 strong ones thinking I could handle it because I had taken 2 strongs before with only slight difficulty. Nearly died. Had to use every cooldown I've got, uncluding my CCs, just to survive the fights. Ended at like 5% hp with a ticking DoT on me.

 

And I'm a Tank Guardian. Had to cancel the crew skill mission I had Doc on and use him instead for that cave.

 

Then those cyber things by themselves hit hard. I let one beat on me and he nearly killed me. Those strong bastards hit harder than the elite Gormak king monster.

Edited by Faolon
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Here's my list of slight tweaks that I think would make the Guardian better

 

Tier 1: Dust storm. Force Sweep has a 50>100% chance to lower the target's accuracy by 5>10% for 12 seconds. This lowers the time of the debuff, but increases the accuracy drop. Everything else is fine.

 

Tier 2: Replace Solidified Force with Unremetting. Everything else is fine

 

Tier 3: Combine Pacification with Swelling Winds, replace Pacification in the Defense tree with Protector. Remove Hilt Strike bonus damage. Change effect to raises Force Sweep's Damage by 13>26>40% and lower it's cool down by 1>2>3 seconds. Increases Cyclone Slashes damage by 5>10>15%. Maybe increase Force Sweep range to 8 meters

 

Tier 4: Pretty good, just change the Shield Chance increase to Defense chance increase

 

Tier 5: Also good. Make Blade Barrier scale with Strength or Endurance and this one is set

 

Tier 6: Cyclonic Sweeps, the Soresu effect is fine. Along with reducing the Combat Focus Cool down. The change that should be made is Cyclone Slashes damage is increased by 3>6>9% and the third point makes Cyclone Slash generate an extra 20% threat.

 

Inner peace, first, change the effect of Enure to one of the following. Absorbs damage equal to 30% of your maximum health for 10 seconds, or increases your maximum health by 30% for 10 seconds. When the effect ends, you lose that health, and are healed for 50% of that increase.

 

Now back to Inner Peace, change internal and elemental damage to all damages, also increases Endurance by 3>6%.

 

Tier 7: Guardian Slash, fine how it is except is should generate a moderate amount of threat or give some defensive buff, maybe increases all defense by 3%. Granted, with either of those implications, the cool down would have to be slightly increased

 

Edit: Forgot something..obviously. Awe, reduce stun to 3 or 4 seconds. Remove breaks when foe takes damage effect

 

These ideas, in my opinion, aren't overpowered. Nice buffs, and would help the Guardian Tank alot. Something else that doesn't have to be implemented is lower Sundering Strike's cool down by 1-2 seconds

Edited by FalcoLombardi
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The problem with JK's in PvP really is the gear. Until you get it you will notice a huge gap in your damage ability. Other classes you can get away with having low end gear and you still feel as if your doing good damage. Guardians need the gear to do the damage.

 

 

With that said Focus is the PvP spec. Use it, get used to it, get the stacks rolling and your sweeps will kill people with out hesitation. I have killed 3 people with one sweep (they were all pretty low health) but all 3 died.

 

 

Guardians need a bit of attention in some areas but over all you just need to learn how to use them. They have complex situational rotations that require you to "set up" the DPS. Other classes are a bit more easy mode. JK's need to think and pick there targets well.

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