ZDProletariat Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 An invitation is asking you. I honestly don't understand how the OP is so nonsensically irrational.There is absolutely no logic there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 It is rude because you ASSUME that someone else will want to join you and that they don't have other plans. Even if they're the same level, there's a good chance they've already DONE that heroic, or that they're about to log out, or simply have other plans in game. By not asking you tell them 'your plans do not count, mine do'. I find it completely unacceptable. And no, sending a tell and asking is not even CLOSE to being in the same category of interruption. By asking, you treat the other like a person in stead of like an NPC. Sorry, still not getting it. If I send "invite to group," I'm rude and annoying? But if I whisper you and say "hey, you wanna help with this quest?" that's not rude and annoying? Either way, I'm not *assuming* anything. I'm asking you either way and you can decline either way - and you are interrupted either way. So I don't get this. Seems like a foreplay thing, which I guess I can understand. Anyway, I guess I'll defer to the MMO vets in here, but me, I'd rather have someone just send me an invite which I can easily accept/decline, then chat and sync up after accepting. Met some cool people here doing exactly that, but to each his/her own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plusieurs Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 How about those random guild invites with no warning? Those are even worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinge Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I used to think like the OP. In some ways I still do, if I get a group invite out of no-where my instinctive reaction is still to decline it, for some reason it feels rude to me to invite someone without asking first. I guess it goes back to older MMOs where grouping was a much more common part of the day-to-day gameplay and certain conventions around forming groups were established as a result. But despite my instinctive reaction, I actually force myself to accept all group invites these days. Like Jim Carrey in "Yes Man", I figured it would be interesting to see what happened if I forced myself to say "Yes!" to every opportunity, request or invitation that presents itself (but only in MMOs, not the real world obviously. That would be silly.) And it's been great, have ended up getting in to some great groups (as well as some entertainingly rubbish ones.) Edited January 30, 2012 by Vinge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I used to think like the OP. In some ways I still do, if I get a group invite out of no-where my instinctive reaction is still to decline it, for some reason it feels rude to me to invite someone without asking first. I guess it goes back to older MMOs where grouping was a much more common part of the day-to-day gameplay and certain conventions around forming groups were established as a result. But despite my instinctive reaction, I actually force myself to accept all group invites these days. Like Jim Carrey in "Yes Man", I figured it would be interesting to see what happened if I forced myself to say "Yes!" to every opportunity, request or invitation that presents itself (but only in MMOs, not the real world obviously.) And it's been great, have ended up getting in to some great groups (as well as some entertainingly rubbish ones.) I think this helps explain things. Again, as a noob, I don't know about these established ways of doing things, and I bet others don't either. In fact, I suspect that most people who are doing what the OP complains of do so because they think it's appropriate, less intrusive. Until reading this post, that would have been my assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broom Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Sorry, still not getting it. If I send "invite to group," I'm rude and annoying? But if I whisper you and say "hey, you wanna help with this quest?" that's not rude and annoying? Either way, I'm not *assuming* anything. I'm asking you either way and you can decline either way - and you are interrupted either way. So I don't get this. Seems like a foreplay thing, which I guess I can understand. Anyway, I guess I'll defer to the MMO vets in here, but me, I'd rather have someone just send me an invite which I can easily accept/decline, then chat and sync up after accepting. Met some cool people here doing exactly that, but to each his/her own. Mate, anyone who does it to me, ends up ignored, it's as simple as that. Because you ARE assuming, and you DON'T have the courtesy of asking. It's simple manners. Also, shoving an invite window into someone's face is a lot more disruptive than sending a tell, since it requires player action to remove AND blocks part of your vision. Which, incidentally, has in fact gotten me killed in games, because when fighting an elite or another player it's just about the last thing you can use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Mate, anyone who does it to me, ends up ignored, it's as simple as that. Because you ARE assuming, and you DON'T have the courtesy of asking. It's simple manners. Manners =/= Doing it my way or else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griminal Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Let me guess. OP is one of those people who flags himself as LFG for a specific dungeon or quest and then declines when he gets an invite lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Gao_Gao Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 i agree with the OP. i've had random invites sent to me, and so of course i decline! then i turn around and realize that the person was behind me sharing the same area. i mean get real. just whisper, "YO WANNA SHARE THIS MOB LOL?" it isn't hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Mate, anyone who does it to me, ends up ignored, it's as simple as that. Because you ARE assuming, and you DON'T have the courtesy of asking. It's simple manners. Seems like auto-decline is the fix, no? Again, the only assumption here is that someone is trying to be rude by inviting. I venture to say that most people doing it here are doing because they are exactly trying NOT to be rude. It's also "manners" to embrace people's varying comfort levels. I feel much more comfy talking to someone after they've accepted a group invite, rather than spamming them with small talk when there may or may not be interest. One thing I can agree on is that anyone who does EITHER in the middle of someone's fight is a douche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinthinner Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think the opposite. if I am starting to kill something in the area... I am glad that someone blind invites me, if they are nearby and wants to join in the fun. If someone doesn't like it, and it bothers them that much... maybe they are just a tad anti-social to begin with. no granted, if they are just inviting to ask for money, trying to sell junk, or whatever... you leave group and ignore... 2 seconds and it is forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarinth Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) For me, depends on the situation. If we're all standing around waiting on a spawn that we have to kill, just invite me already. I've had several groups that have formed, killed the mob and disbanded without so much as a word. If I'm out questing in the world and you want me to join your FP, or you need a hand with something and your randomly working your way down the who list, then ask me first. This for me too. I don't mind blind invites in situations where it makes pefect sense to create a temporary group for a single objective. Like uteboy said, if there are 2+ people standing around a boss, there isn't really a whole lot of discussion needed to establish who needs what. To me, a blind invite in a situation like that means, "let's team up for this and then we can part ways again". If I've already engaged the final boss for a given quest and I see someone running up who is clearly in need of the same kill, I'll actually go out of my way to toss them a blind invite. It's my way of asking them if they want in on the kill, as typing it out and waiting for an answer would simply take too long when you're already in the fight. In most other situations though I always ask people first and usually people do the same to me. I've had the occasional random blind invite, but it's not happened enough to really annoy and usually after a decline they don't try again. I've only had 1 case where a player was really persistent and required a trip to /ignore to block repeated blind invites. Given how atrocious today's MMO communities are usually made out to be, I think at least on the servers I play on it's not that bad. On a slight off-topic note: There have been cases where grouping up ad-hoc just isn't feasible, usually when me and my fiancee are duo-ing open-world heroics. Occasionally on the final boss we'll run into another group of 3-4 players and there just isn't enough room for us all to merge into a single group. If that happens we always let the other group go first and help them bring down the boss. So far every time we've done that the other group has stayed around to help us dps down our boss in turn, even if it took a while for the boss to respawn. Who says common courtesy is completely dead in MMO's? PS: just wanted to add I do understand where the OP is coming from. Blind invites can be perceived as very rude and especially if you don't even see the person in question it can leave you scratching your head wondering what they're thinking. However on a personal level I just take it in stride as long as it doesn't happen too often. I just remind myself that not everyone knows the unwritten etiquette of MMO's and that a lot of them probably don't realize they're being (what might be perceived as) rude. The exception is those people who spam invites, whether it's trade, guild or group invites... if you can't take the hint after the first decline you're either being rude on purpose or you're really immature. Edited January 30, 2012 by Amarinth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broom Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think this helps explain things. Again, as a noob, I don't know about these established ways of doing things, and I bet others don't either. In fact, I suspect that most people who are doing what the OP complains of do so because they think it's appropriate, less intrusive. Until reading this post, that would have been my assumption. It's like the people jumping in to 'help' you kill a mob, when you haven't the slightest need of help. In many cases you may ruin the original fighters combat experience, by messing up their power rotation or even their abilities (i've played classes where I NEEDED to get hit in order to do more damage) of by ruining the challenge (e.g. when fighting an elite or champion). And many of us have played games where, unlike in SW:TOR, the person who does most damage gets the kill credit, the loot and the experience... So jumping in to 'help' is something you just don't do, unless you want to be branded as a killstealer. Healing, buffing, all fine, but don't jump in unless they're really going to die without help. MMO aren't that unlike a regular, real life community. Especially in the longer lived ones, you get to know people, you develop relations that can last for years. And like all communities, virtual communities too develop unspoken rules of conduct so you don't rip each others' throats out. Which can be quite literal in games with PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 This for me too. I don't mind blind invites in situations where it makes pefect sense to create a temporary group for a single objective. Like uteboy said, if there are 2+ people standing around a boss, there isn't really a whole lot of discussion needed to establish who needs what. To me, a blind invite in a situation like that means, "let's team up for this and then we can part ways again". If I've already engaged the final boss for a given quest and I see someone running up who is clearly in need of the same kill, I'll actually go out of my way to toss them a blind invite. It's my way of asking them if they want in on the kill, as typing it out and waiting for an answer would simply take too long when you're already in the fight. In most other situations though I always ask people first and usually people do the same to me. I've had the occasional random blind invite, but it's not happened enough to really annoy and usually after a decline they don't try again. I've only had 1 case where a player was really persistent and required a trip to /ignore to block repeated blind invites. Given how atrocious today's MMO communities are usually made out to be, I think at least on the servers I play on it's not that bad. On a slight off-topic note: There have been cases where grouping up ad-hoc just isn't feasible, usually when me and my fiancee are duo-ing open-world heroics. Occasionally on the final boss we'll run into another group of 3-4 players and there just isn't enough room for us all to merge into a single group. If that happens we always let the other group go first and help them bring down the boss. So far every time we've done that the other group has stayed around to help us dps down our boss in turn, even if it took a while for the boss to respawn. Who says common courtesy is completely dead in MMO's? This. Everything in this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 It's like the people jumping in to 'help' you kill a mob, when you haven't the slightest need of help. It's almost like you don't like other players in your MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkCarnage Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 i myself do not main grouping up but i like the curesity of asking first, i hate blind invites, and i do not do it ymself. i always ask first before i invite someone. weather it a flash point or just grouping up so we get credit for a rarer quest mob so not ahve to wait 5-10 extra mins. i also ask when in a party if ok to need on something if it only a minor upgrade or a random world drops that orange or purple BoE if anyone says no, then i greed and hope my normal roll luck staying strong lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 It's like the people jumping in to 'help' you kill a mob, when you haven't the slightest need of help. ... MMO aren't that unlike a regular, real life community. Especially in the longer lived ones, you get to know people, you develop relations that can last for years. And like all communities, virtual communities too develop unspoken rules of conduct so you don't rip each others' throats out. Which can be quite literal in games with PVP. I get it now. Makes sense. I guess my point is, sometimes you have noobs or those who are actually trying to be helpful, like above. They want to be part of the world, but maybe are noobish or awkward in how they go about it. But I truly don't think that for most people it's bad manners. More than anything, it's people trying to be helpful and social, and perhaps going about it wrong. Like I used to jump in and try to help kill mobs, until I realized that it's not always "helpful." Noobishness, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uteboy Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 After catching up on this thread ( from page 2 - 20 ), and reading everyone's comments, I wonder if the bulk of the problem is actually the fact that a blind invite pops a window up in the middle of the screen that you have to interact with in some way, potentially a distraction from whatever you are currently doing. Maybe a better solution is that when you invite someone else, it pops up a window in YOUR screen, that requires a mandatory comment, or a drop down list of the quests you are currently on ( as you probably want a hand with one of them ). Then, rather than opening a window on the invitees screen, it pops a link in the chat window like: "person x has invited you to a group for mission y, click here to accept". That way you don't have to immediately respond to it if you're in the middle of doing something else, the invitee gets a reason for invite and can choose to ignore it if they want. No idea if something like this is even feasible, just sort of interested as to what other people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broom Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Seems like auto-decline is the fix, no? Again, the only assumption here is that someone is trying to be rude by inviting. I venture to say that most people doing it here are doing because they are exactly trying NOT to be rude. It's also "manners" to embrace people's varying comfort levels. I feel much more comfy talking to someone after they've accepted a group invite, rather than spamming them with small talk when there may or may not be interest. One thing I can agree on is that anyone who does EITHER in the middle of someone's fight is a douche. See, that's where you're wrong. I group for PVP, I group to help both strangers and guildmates out when they're in a tight spot. I just refuse to group with little douches who think they're entitled somehow, like the tard who spammed over 15 invites while I was afk in Fleet, because he'd spotted a world boss. Or, for that matter, the friggin lowbies who think I'm going to PL them (yes, I've gotten those on my level 50). Seriously, I've yet to meet someone who feels offended about a polite tell. And a tell during a fight is not even a fraction of the distraction a pop-up window causes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broom Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 After catching up on this thread ( from page 2 - 20 ), and reading everyone's comments, I wonder if the bulk of the problem is actually the fact that a blind invite pops a window up in the middle of the screen that you have to interact with in some way, potentially a distraction from whatever you are currently doing. Maybe a better solution is that when you invite someone else, it pops up a window in YOUR screen, that requires a mandatory comment, or a drop down list of the quests you are currently on ( as you probably want a hand with one of them ). Then, rather than opening a window on the invitees screen, it pops a link in the chat window like: "person x has invited you to a group for mission y, click here to accept". That way you don't have to immediately respond to it if you're in the middle of doing something else, the invitee gets a reason for invite and can choose to ignore it if they want. No idea if something like this is even feasible, just sort of interested as to what other people think. It would definitely work better than the system with the pop-up window. But it still comes down to 'send a polite tell'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfer_Infinity Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Remember the silly popup window with buttons yes and no? Thats when you are ASKED if you want to group. When i'm in non instanced dungeon, and see other player with same quest i send him invite (ask him if he wants to group), if he joins (agrees) we complete our objectives faster leave dungeon and are on our way, if not we get in each others way, forcing each other to wait for repawns etc. Simples as that, no need for pointless chat. Edited January 30, 2012 by Lucyfer_Infinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broom Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I get it now. Makes sense. I guess my point is, sometimes you have noobs or those who are actually trying to be helpful, like above. They want to be part of the world, but maybe are noobish or awkward in how they go about it. But I truly don't think that for most people it's bad manners. More than anything, it's people trying to be helpful and social, and perhaps going about it wrong. Like I used to jump in and try to help kill mobs, until I realized that it's not always "helpful." Noobishness, that's all. It's OK to be new, and simply not knowing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broom Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Remember the silly popup window with buttons yes and no? Thats when you are ASKED if you want to group. When i'm in non instanced dungeon, and see other player with same quest i send him invite (ask him if he wants to group), if he joins (agrees) we complete our objectives faster leave dungeon and are on our way, if not we get in each others way, forcing each other to wait for repawns etc. Simples as that, no need for pointless chat. I kinda like 'pointless chat'. And no, that window of yours just says 'join my group', it doesn't say what for. Which isn't communication in any way shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodalus Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 For me, depends on the situation. If we're all standing around waiting on a spawn that we have to kill, just invite me already. I've had several groups that have formed, killed the mob and disbanded without so much as a word. If I'm out questing in the world and you want me to join your FP, or you need a hand with something and your randomly working your way down the who list, then ask me first. As many others have already said: This ^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcaptainpants Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I kinda like 'pointless chat'. And no, that window of yours just says 'join my group', it doesn't say what for. Which isn't communication in any way shape or form. Exactly. I'll say it again: Other players are not NPCs that you can just wordlessly click on and assume they will assist you with your quests. Just ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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