Jimer_Lins Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Sorry, Super Saturday is cancelled! Edited February 26, 2012 by Jimer_Lins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimer_Lins Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) I now has a sad. Edited February 26, 2012 by Jimer_Lins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimer_Lins Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Sadly, I received an account warning tonight- apparently someone complained about my show or that I posted a link to the SHOUTCast stream in chat. I'm following up with BioWare right now but it looks like all my shows are going to be cancelled effective immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puuk Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Bioware would definitely approve of such an event so it is more likely the effect of Bioware being very sensitive towards posting urls in chat. This is a mechanism towards removing gold spammers (NI HAO!) from the game. Edited February 26, 2012 by Puuk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimer_Lins Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Bioware would definitely approve of such an event so it is more likely the effect of Bioware being very sensitive towards posting urls in chat. This is a mechanism towards removing gold spammers (NI HAO!) from the game. They apparently do not approve. I received a very politely-worded threat to ban me if I didn't stop talking about the show in-game. Since most of the point of my shows was to promote a sense of community, if I can't talk about them in-game or link the SHOUTCast stream, there is no point to doing them. What good would a live radio show called "Flashpoint Friday" be without the in-game interaction? Even if I didn't link the stream URL someone would eventually complain, for the lulz if nothing else and with one warning on my account already, I'm banned. No, BioWare doesn't care about events like this, and they've made it very clear that they don't understand or simply do not care about helping foster a sense of community in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miallen Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 This is pretty disappointing actually. I felt this was something that made our server unique and lightened the environment just a little. If you still do the show, we will still listen in. Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimer_Lins Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 This is pretty disappointing actually. I felt this was something that made our server unique and lightened the environment just a little. If you still do the show, we will still listen in. Just sayin. Thanks, mate. I hope you'll continue to listen to my shows; I'm not leaving the station- I've been a DJ there for years. I just won't be doing Flashpoint Friday, Super Saturday or The Nar Shaddaa Lounge any longer. It's very saddening to me and it irritates me mightily, but I simply cannot run the risk of receiving an account ban because someone decided they wanted to flag me for mentioning the show URL in general chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daevien Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Stupidity seems to be running rampant at Bioware if this is how they deal with someone trying to help them promote SWTOR. Leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangrel Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Having been with a few online radio stations over the years (Last Stand Radio/Evolution Radio (EU City of Heroes stations)/MMO Radio/New Eden Radio), i have found that it is a fine line that you have to walk whilst promoting the station ingame. Promoting in already present server channels was "frowned" upon in my experience... especially if it was too often (how often is to often? I cannot tell you that, i have been told off for doing it every 15-25 minutes before, other times i got away with every 10 minutes *shrugs*). Infact, the only time i tended to use "server wide" was when they were *not* present, and to quickly announce (just the once), that the show was starting (or if it was announcing the start of a *general access* server event/competition) Now saying that, custom chat channels saved my bacon more often than not... i didn't *directly* promote the station (ie post a url), instead i asked "if you have songs you want to listen to... come and join us in X channel" (use this sparingly as if it was a direct promotion) If they are complaining about it being once on the day it is happening, then that is indeed *very* bad form on their part. Of course, all it takes is one bad egg to spoil the party for everyone! Side note: I enjoy SIRadio when i have listened to it (and have thought about applying to them in the past) but that is (to be honest) normally when i cannot think of anything to listen to in my music collection! Anyways, it is a bit strange that it has taken so long for you to be warned over doing something like this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimer_Lins Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 I got a response from BioWare customer support earlier this evening. They basically told me to piss off. You win, BioWare. I'm quitting the field. You get the community you apparently want. Actually, I'm not even sure I'll be resubbing. I tried to play a little earlier tonight and I just wasn't having fun. Bye, kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangrel Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 And yet, have you tried talking to *any* of the community people here via twitter/PM's and *NOT* customer services? Sounds strange/funny, but generally speaking they tend to be able to suggest different ways of coping with the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amonette Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Hmm. I have to say, I think you're rather expecting BioWare to bend a rule for you with the justification that you're trying to help the community. Most games don't like you to post links in general or regional chat for very simple, obvious reasons. Most of the people linking sites are goldsellers, some of whom are likely to give you an extra present of spyware to steal your account, sell more gold, unbalance the economy and generally be a headache for the makers of whichever MMO you happen to be playing. It seems that this is a blanket rule you have fallen foul of, and you're complaining that BioWare should be making an exception to that rule for you and aren't doing so. Of course they're not. Rules are there for a reason and you are expected to obey them in game if you want to keep your account. This is standard issue common sense. There are many ways to promote community events. As you will see from my sig, I have a community site that I do my best to promote - out of game. I also write for a magazine whiich I try and promote - also out of game. Yes, I will tell people about it if I happen to be chatting to them one-on-one or if someone specifically asks a question about it along the lines of 'hey I heard about this site, anyone know where it is'. And even then I will whisper it to them. Yes, I publicise it on the forums in the community section where I am allowed to advertise my community site. What I do not do, however, is take the captive audience customer base that BioWare has built up and advertise to them directly. That is because I can see that it is obviously something that would be frowned upon. I could be giving out free cookies or a cure for cancer - it doesn't matter, I have no right to use what is effectivelly BioWare's marketing database to promote my own project, and neither do you. Now you're throwing your toys out of the pram and complaining that BioWare is sabotaging the community by not letting you promote yourself all over general chat. Customer services were clearly not the right people to contact. BioWare is very supportive of the community. What they are less supportive of is people trying to self publicise non BioWare approved projects to their customers. This is pretty much standard. Another example - I work for a large commercial company. There are about 2000 people in the company. Suppose I started a weekly comedy show about the company, one that they had not seen or approved of, and started sending out daily, global emails to everyone to promote my show. Do you want to take a bet on how long it would take me to get fired? Seriously - if you want to promote your show do it properly. And by properly I mean the hard way. Like the rest of us. Edited February 27, 2012 by Amonette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amonette Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Oh and using your signature to moan about them? If I was a BioWare moderator I'd ban you just for being cheeky at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furiel Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hmm. I have to say, I think you're rather expecting BioWare to bend a rule for you with the justification that you're trying to help the community. Most games don't like you to post links in general or regional chat for very simple, obvious reasons. Most of the people linking sites are goldsellers, some of whom are likely to give you an extra present of spyware to steal your account, sell more gold, unbalance the economy and generally be a headache for the makers of whichever MMO you happen to be playing. It seems that this is a blanket rule you have fallen foul of, and you're complaining that BioWare should be making an exception to that rule for you and aren't doing so. Of course they're not. Rules are there for a reason and you are expected to obey them in game if you want to keep your account. This is standard issue common sense. There are many ways to promote community events. As you will see from my sig, I have a community site that I do my best to promote - out of game. I also write for a magazine whiich I try and promote - also out of game. Yes, I will tell people about it if I happen to be chatting to them one-on-one or if someone specifically asks a question about it along the lines of 'hey I heard about this site, anyone know where it is'. And even then I will whisper it to them. Yes, I publicise it on the forums in the community section where I am allowed to advertise my community site. What I do not do, however, is take the captive audience customer base that BioWare has built up and advertise to them directly. That is because I can see that it is obviously something that would be frowned upon. I could be giving out free cookies or a cure for cancer - it doesn't matter, I have no right to use what is effectivelly BioWare's marketing database to promote my own project, and neither do you. Now you're throwing your toys out of the pram and complaining that BioWare is sabotaging the community by not letting you promote yourself all over general chat. Customer services were clearly not the right people to contact. BioWare is very supportive of the community. What they are less supportive of is people trying to self publicise non BioWare approved projects to their customers. This is pretty much standard. Another example - I work for a large commercial company. There are about 2000 people in the company. Suppose I started a weekly comedy show about the company, one that they had not seen or approved of, and started sending out daily, global emails to everyone to promote my show. Do you want to take a bet on how long it would take me to get fired? Seriously - if you want to promote your show do it properly. And by properly I mean the hard way. Like the rest of us. You post makes me laugh. Very supportive of the community? When exactly did that happen? When they launched with no server forums? When first asked about it they said that the had no server forums BECAUSE they felt it would PROMOTE a strong community? When they put up the current abomination of server group forums due to massive player pressure that don't even come close to meeting the communities needs? Or was it when they shut down his shows? Of all of the MMOs I've played this one has the worst sense of community. Even worse the WoW IMO because BW consistently takes actions such as this to hinder the building of a community rather than fostering it. If they wanted a strong community in this game they would be embracing Jimer's shows. I mean it was 6 hours of free advertising for them they they spent no money and no effort for. There were players from both factions all coming together on Tuesdays on Nar Shadda and talking and interacting and having a great time. There was Star Wars trivia contests with in-game prizes being given away. If you want a strong community then you allow these things to occur and you help and support the players that want to do them. You don't threaten to ban them. But that's not the path that was chosen here now, was it? So you can go ahead and continue to bang the BW drum so that you and your fansite can stay in their good graces and they don't shut you down, but that won't hide the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amonette Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I see you've decided to focus on one small aspect of my post and answer emotionally rather than logically. Either way, this person is breaking the game rules by spamming in game chat with a web address. What he is advertising is not the issue. The issue is that he is breaking a perfectly simple and logical rule that applies to everyone equally, and somehow thinks that what he is promoting should be seen as a special case. Asking him not to spam global chat is not unreasonable. There are other ways to advertise community events without doing so, as evidenced by the many community sites and podcasts that exist without the need for in game spam. The validity or worth of the podcast is not in question here, at all. You can't say 'I should be allowed to break this rule because I think I am advertising for BioWare'. You will notice that BioWare does not spam us in game with anything to advertise either. Why does the OP think that he has any right to? If there is community support and a following for these podcasts there is no need to spam in game or flout the user agreement you are playing under. There is no point moaning about BioWare enforcing a perfectly clear and simple rule, and the fact that you disagree with my comment about BioWare's level of community support has no bearing whatsoever on this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amonette Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Oh and also it doesn't sound like they're banning the event - they're threatening to ban him for repeatedly breaking a simple rule. And the problem is...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimer_Lins Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hmm. I have to say, I think you're rather expecting BioWare to bend a rule for you with the justification that you're trying to help the community. Well, which rule would that be? I asked BioWare to point out what specifically I did that violated the TOS, which they kindly linked when giving me an account warning. They didn't say, but since it's so vague one can interpret saying pretty much anything as violating the TOS. I assume I was reported by someone who didn't appreciate me saying I was doing a live show in general chat. I'd mention it every five to ten minutes, notihng intrusive. Of course, I didn't want to get in the way of all the chatter (of which there was none) or the LFG spam, or the "join my guild" spam. The problem is that BioWare has rules that they don't enforce consistently, or at all, or with any logic that I can perceive. Should I be so petty as to start hitting report on all the miscellaneous "Join my guild" spam, or maybe that guy who's been spamming LFG for an hour? Because it's legitimately the same sin I was alleged to have committted. Most games don't like you to post links in general or regional chat for very simple, obvious reasons. Most of the people linking sites are goldsellers, some of whom are likely to give you an extra present of spyware to steal your account, sell more gold, unbalance the economy and generally be a headache for the makers of whichever MMO you happen to be playing. It seems that this is a blanket rule you have fallen foul of, and you're complaining that BioWare should be making an exception to that rule for you and aren't doing so. If they don't want links, I can give them a very small regex that will filter them out. Also, there should be a proscription against posting them if that was the case- there isn't any rule that I have found in the TOS that disallows posting of URLs in chat. And while I haven't seen a single "gold spam" ad, I've seen tons of ads for guilds, links to websites about TOR and a million other things. But for some reason the one I posted is special, eh? Of course they're not. Rules are there for a reason and you are expected to obey them in game if you want to keep your account. This is standard issue common sense. Point to the rule that disallows me from posting URLs in chat and/or announcing that I'm doing a live radio show. There are many ways to promote community events. As you will see from my sig, I have a community site that I do my best to promote - out of game. I also write for a magazine whiich I try and promote - also out of game. Yes, I will tell people about it if I happen to be chatting to them one-on-one or if someone specifically asks a question about it along the lines of 'hey I heard about this site, anyone know where it is'. And even then I will whisper it to them. Yes, I publicise it on the forums in the community section where I am allowed to advertise my community site. What I do not do, however, is take the captive audience customer base that BioWare has built up and advertise to them directly. That is because I can see that it is obviously something that would be frowned upon. I could be giving out free cookies or a cure for cancer - it doesn't matter, I have no right to use what is effectivelly BioWare's marketing database to promote my own project, and neither do you. Now you're throwing your toys out of the pram and complaining that BioWare is sabotaging the community by not letting you promote yourself all over general chat. Customer services were clearly not the right people to contact. Spare me. I didn't "promote myself all over general chat". I'd start a show and mention every 10 minutes or so that the show was on and folks were invited to tune in if they wished. I wasn't spamming it every 30 seconds or hassling anyone. What I was doing was far less obtrusive than the guild and LFG spam, to be perfectly blunt. You can be as self-righteous as you want. This isn't about you. And again, I have yet to be told what rule I specifically violated. There isn't a rule against posting URLs in chat, so I guess you'd have to fall back on "advertising", which you could interpret that to mean, but then under that interpretation LFG spam on the fleet is "advertising". BioWare is very supportive of the community. What they are less supportive of is people trying to self publicise non BioWare approved projects to their customers. This is pretty much standard. Another example - I work for a large commercial company. There are about 2000 people in the company. Suppose I started a weekly comedy show about the company, one that they had not seen or approved of, and started sending out daily, global emails to everyone to promote my show. Do you want to take a bet on how long it would take me to get fired? Seriously - if you want to promote your show do it properly. And by properly I mean the hard way. Like the rest of us. Yeah, they're real supportive of the community. They love it so much they wouldn't create server forums. Then when they finally knuckled under they created these abysmal group forums that require digging through four or five levels of links to get to. Have you checked those lately? They're a tomb, and for good reason. The whole stunt with "we won't create forums, but we'll link to a list of external ones" was entertaining too. I mean, why not fracture the community into a ton of smaller ones? Take off the blinders. BioWare has made a great game but they really and deeply suck at fostering community. This ain't my first rodeo and I've yet to see community outreach and player engagement with the community handled so badly by any large MMO. Look, in the end, I'm not here to justify anything I've done to you. I don't need to. I don't have to. I won't risk my account getting banned. If you want to interpret my reaction to BioWare's hamfisted actions as "throwing my toys out of the pram", that's your prerogative. Best of luck with your site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimer_Lins Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Oh and using your signature to moan about them? If I was a BioWare moderator I'd ban you just for being cheeky at this point. Would you? Well, that's nice. Good thing you're not a moderator then. However, it was a little whiny- good point. I removed it. Edited February 27, 2012 by Jimer_Lins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furiel Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I see you've decided to focus on one small aspect of my post and answer emotionally rather than logically. Either way, this person is breaking the game rules by spamming in game chat with a web address. What he is advertising is not the issue. The issue is that he is breaking a perfectly simple and logical rule that applies to everyone equally, and somehow thinks that what he is promoting should be seen as a special case. Asking him not to spam global chat is not unreasonable. There are other ways to advertise community events without doing so, as evidenced by the many community sites and podcasts that exist without the need for in game spam. The validity or worth of the podcast is not in question here, at all. You can't say 'I should be allowed to break this rule because I think I am advertising for BioWare'. You will notice that BioWare does not spam us in game with anything to advertise either. Why does the OP think that he has any right to? If there is community support and a following for these podcasts there is no need to spam in game or flout the user agreement you are playing under. There is no point moaning about BioWare enforcing a perfectly clear and simple rule, and the fact that you disagree with my comment about BioWare's level of community support has no bearing whatsoever on this discussion. Fact: there is no rule anywhere in the ToS that says you can't post a URL in chat, so please drop that arguement. I just reread it to verify that is so. And if the rule that was violated is so clear and simple why haven't you quoted it yet? I did however find an interesting bit in the ToS since you are so hung up on it and it's blanket enforcement in all situations I ask you, have you reported a bug or exploit to Bioware? If so then you should be warned and probably banned. The ToS expressly says it's a violation to: - Use and communicate exploits and/or cheats. Well typing out what the bug/exploit or cheat in a report and submitting it is by the very definition of the word communicating it. Nowhere do they have an exclusion in there for communicating it to them for repair, I looked. So I guess I should be banned for reporting a particular PvP exploit that has since been fixed, cuz you know, I communicated it by writing out what it was in my ticket to Bioware. I mean, it's a pretty clear and simple rule. And you seem to be misunderstanding 1 important fact here about these shows. They aren't podcasts, they were live. There was no pre-recording and it wasn't stored anywhere for people to listen to at their convenience. It happened at the scheduled times each week, and if you missed it, you were out of luck, which makes this a completely different beast than a fansite or a podcast and needs to be treated as it's own entity because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amonette Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Fact: there is no rule anywhere in the ToS that says you can't post a URL in chat, so please drop that arguement. I just reread it to verify that is so. And if the rule that was violated is so clear and simple why haven't you quoted it yet? I did however find an interesting bit in the ToS since you are so hung up on it and it's blanket enforcement in all situations I ask you, have you reported a bug or exploit to Bioware? If so then you should be warned and probably banned. The ToS expressly says it's a violation to: - Use and communicate exploits and/or cheats. Well typing out what the bug/exploit or cheat in a report and submitting it is by the very definition of the word communicating it. Nowhere do they have an exclusion in there for communicating it to them for repair, I looked. So I guess I should be banned for reporting a particular PvP exploit that has since been fixed, cuz you know, I communicated it by writing out what it was in my ticket to Bioware. I mean, it's a pretty clear and simple rule. And you seem to be misunderstanding 1 important fact here about these shows. They aren't podcasts, they were live. There was no pre-recording and it wasn't stored anywhere for people to listen to at their convenience. It happened at the scheduled times each week, and if you missed it, you were out of luck, which makes this a completely different beast than a fansite or a podcast and needs to be treated as it's own entity because of that. Wow you actually reread the entire TOS just to prove a random stranger on the Internet wrong? A slow handclap to you good sir. OP, despite what you think and the tone you have obviously read into my words, I was actually trying to help. Coming on the forums and airing your dirty linen while slamming the owners of the forums is behaviour that won't help your cause, however worthy, and is more than likely to increase your chances of getting a ban. The reasons you've fallen foul of BioWare on this one are as clear as the nose on your face and there ARE ways round them. I appreciate that BioWare are not being excessively clear with you but really, they don't have to be, and what I am TRYING to say is that if you want to promote an event you don't actually have to do it in game. Go create an enjin site if you haven't already, encourage people to join it and spread the word, link it in your forum sig and posts and set up calendar events for it. All of which can be done in under half an hour. If BW's problem is with you using the main chat channel to tell people it's about to start then you can create a custom channel and get people to join it (and this is permanent - once you've joined a chat channel you will rejoin it every time you log in until you leave it). Now stop getting all offended and accept some constructive criticism from someone already running successful community projects and you never know, it might actually help! For one thing you are more than welcome to advertise your event on my community SWGirls - see link below. This is the kind of thing I'm happy to put in the site calendar. Please bear in mind that not everyone with an opinion that is different to yours is attacking you or calling you an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amonette Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Also FTR - not providing server forums has lead to people setting up their own, user moderated ones. There are various lists of them about, including an up to date on on my site. User created forums are way nicer than game controlled ones. Every MMO I have ever played that has had server forums and without exception they have been full of cliques and abuse. Instead of raging that BioWare are going down a different route, perhaps try engaging with all the other fans out there who have decided to be proactive? Here is a list of existing server forums - I'm sorry I don't have time to copy all the links across right now but you can find them here (login required but f you already use enjin it is a 1 click ad) Basilisk Droid - Forum Belgoth's Beacon - [G+] Begeren Colony - Forum [DE] Dreypa`s Oubliette - Facebook Giradda the Hutt - [G+] Jedi Covenant - [G+] Jekk'Jekk Tarr - [G+] | Facebook Jung Ma - Forum | RP Forum Juyo - [G+] Mask of Nihilus - [G+] | Facebook Master Dorak - Facebook Mind Trick - Forum | [G+] Prophesy of the Five - [G+] Rubat Crystal - Forum Shien - [G+] Space Slug - [G+] Sword of Ajunta Pall - Forum | [G+] | Facebook | Twitter Terentatek [G+] The Constant [G+] The Fatman - Forum (Moderated) | Forum (unmodded) | Facebook (Modded) | Facebook (Unmodded) The Swiftsure [G+] Ven Zallow [G+] Vrook Lamar - RP Forum | [G+] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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