Someone condense the anti - LFD tool side argument for me

[WickedDjinn]

I'm willing to sit at an entrance trying to form a group to do group content because I want to find a group of people that want to be part of a group for group content.

 

A LFD tool helps you group up with people who view the other people in the group as NPCs who are just there to tag along to clear another quest or flashpoint from their list.

 

So a pro of LFD is that you are more likely to find players for a group. A con is that the people in your group are more likely to be people who would rather complete the content solo, but they can't so they used LFD.

 

You just made up a lot of nonsense. Really, you did.

 

Unless you are psychic and have the power to look into the minds of other players to tell their exact motivations. In which case I will apologize.

 

Maybe you sit by that dungeon entrance because you are a REAL team player.

 

Or maybe you have no life and a whole lot of time to waste. I don't know.

[navarh]

lmao !! you have guild mates and cant find a group ??!! hahahhahahahaha... thx for that

let's see here

 

in that_game i have 10m queue as dps, let's imagine how many players is there in LFG system to make such time possible

you guild have as much people, ya?

[Forsbacka]

Well it is coming anyway, EA doesnt say no for cash. WoW proved already that masses want it, and whatever masses want, they get.

[LuNkHeAd]

let's see here

 

in that_game i have 10m queue as dps, let's imagine how many players is there in LFG system to make such time possible

you guild have as much people, ya?

 

 

If your guild doesnt have that many people then you picked the wrong guild.

[ExarchCathedra]

I don't raid, so the subject of recruitment and retention is of little interest to me, which may be why I found that this post offered a perspective I had never encountered before that might be of some interest to others, at least as something else to argue about:

 

"More importantly though: in an MMO with cross-server LFG no reliable means of player selection or preparation exist. The purpose of the training phase is undermined in a game of anonymity."

[Forsbacka]

If your guild doesnt have that many people then you picked the wrong guild.

 

Because people choose what guild they want to be in based on how many members it has online or how many members it has overall? Also personally i dont play this gam,e to wait around to run some guildie through flashpoints when they need it.

[Akkalevil]

Well it is coming anyway, EA doesnt say no for cash. WoW proved already that masses want it, and whatever masses want, they get.

Sadly true.

 

Though when you compete with a juggernaut like WoW, it may not be a good idea to ape it too much.

If people are playing your game and not the other one, it's maybe precisely because of the differences. If you stick too close to the model, they can wonder why they should play the imitator rather than the "true" one.

[LuNkHeAd]

Because people choose what guild they want to be in based on how many members it has online or how many members it has overall? Also personally i dont play this gam,e to wait around to run some guildie through flashpoints when they need it.

 

To answer the first part, yes. Join and see how the guild is and how active. If its not all that, move to the next.

 

And the second part, your not really a team player then.

[Forsbacka]

Sadly true.

 

Though when you compete with a juggernaut like WoW, it may not be a good idea to ape it too much.

If people are playing your game and not the other one, it's maybe precisely because of the differences. If you stick too close to the model, they can wonder why they should play the imitator rather than the "true" one.

 

Well thats how it works. Game companies are in it for money, making great games is secondary. And what comes to WoW, seems like many people think it as great game or otherwise they would have turned to other games that costs about same pre month or even F2P. Who are we to judge what other people should consider a good game.

[shadowOOO]

It depends of how the tool is implemented. If it's automatically putting you in a group with random people and no way to control it (like in wow) then it allows people to be jerks and/or be carried by the others. If there's some kind of inter-server lobby where you can first talk to the players and then form groups then I doubt many people would be against it.

 

Well, this right here just gave me the thought that yea, they'll do exactly what Safiir said. Implement the LFD but with MORE control on who you want in a group. From what you said, it sounds good to me!

[Forsbacka]

To answer the first part, yes. Join and see how the guild is and how active. If its not all that, move to the next.

 

And the second part, your not really a team player then.

 

Yeah, and im in a big majority. I play this game fo my enjoyment, not to run other people thrrough things that i dont need, although if our needs collide, we can team up and do it. Not even most HC prgress guilds help each other on lower tier content just cause their guildie asks in guild chat, they are busy to play their own game.

[TrailArnizay]

Anti-LFD people want to punish those who don't have a lot of time to play.

 

Still what it boils down to.

[Forsbacka]

Still what it boils down to.

 

Well its coming soon so dont worry.

[LuNkHeAd]

Yeah, and im in a big majority. I play this game fo my enjoyment, not to run other people thrrough things that i dont need, although if our needs collide, we can team up and do it. Not even most HC prgress guilds help each other on lower tier content just cause their guildie asks in guild chat, they are busy to play their own game.

 

I hear ya ! Also, you wouldnt help a fellow guildie out even if you were once in the same predicament ?

 

And the 'HC' guilds i have been in always help out no matter what the situation is, I have done it many, many, many times.

[Lightseed]

they should NOT just copy paste the wow type of LFD, please bioware do not copy and paste. Take a LFD model, look at it, and insert only the good parts of it, for example :

1. do not put in the cross-server thingy, it sucks, servers have enough players to quickly find groups

 

2. do not implement the "instant" teleport to dungeon, most dungeons are already on fleet, with some small exceptions, what you could do instead is make the emergency fleet pass spell from general spels with less cooldown (18hrs is to much, 2 hrs are enough)

 

3.before you put in the LFD tool, please resolve the greed/need on other peoples items problem, or people will abuse LFD with needing on anything.

 

4. Implement a tool with which people can report other people for bad behavior, and with enough votes that person gets punished, like 1-3 days of unsuable LFD tool.

 

and more other features please Bioware. think before you act, or else bad things happen to good people.

[KaosPeppers]

Cross server dungeon tools ruin community, a same server lfd would work for me.

[Striker]

The real problem is it increases content consumption to an unsustainable level and it encourages players who otherwise wouldn't and probably shouldn't be doing dungeons and flashpoints into doing them.

[Shakoba]

Easily, cross server bad, in server good.

[DarthRik]

they should NOT just copy paste the wow type of LFD, please bioware do not copy and paste. Take a LFD model, look at it, and insert only the good parts of it, for example :

1. do not put in the cross-server thingy, it sucks, servers have enough players to quickly find groups

 

2. do not implement the "instant" teleport to dungeon, most dungeons are already on fleet, with some small exceptions, what you could do instead is make the emergency fleet pass spell from general spels with less cooldown (18hrs is to much, 2 hrs are enough)

 

3.before you put in the LFD tool, please resolve the greed/need on other peoples items problem, or people will abuse LFD with needing on anything.

 

4. Implement a tool with which people can report other people for bad behavior, and with enough votes that person gets punished, like 1-3 days of unsuable LFD tool.

 

and more other features please Bioware. think before you act, or else bad things happen to good people.

 

Bioware listen to this man he talks sence

[Shakoba]

Still what it boils down to.

 

Hardly, I haven't got a lot of time to play, however I do not want it except within server.

[Thuggy]

they should NOT just copy paste the wow type of LFD, please bioware do not copy and paste. Take a LFD model, look at it, and insert only the good parts of it, for example :

1. do not put in the cross-server thingy, it sucks, servers have enough players to quickly find groups

 

Rift tried doing a LFD tool intra-server, within weeks they had to open it up cross-server as DPS queues began to take hours. No way to know how it'll balance out in SWTOR without more metrics, however, there are some very distinct advantages to an expanded player pool to draw from.

 

3.before you put in the LFD tool, please resolve the greed/need on other peoples items problem, or people will abuse LFD with needing on anything.

 

I do agree they need to find some way to improve the loot system in flshpoitns.

 

4. Implement a tool with which people can report other people for bad behavior, and with enough votes that person gets punished, like 1-3 days of unsuable LFD tool.

 

These types of systems almost always empower griefers, and not the population they're implemented to protect. I would however support a system that leverages the /ignore feature as a way to prevent matchmaking with players you'd prefer not to.

[DarthRik]

Rift tried doing a LFD tool intra-server, within weeks they had to open it up cross-server as DPS queues began to take hours. No way to know how it'll balance out in SWTOR without more metrics, however, there are some very distinct advantages to an expanded player pool to draw from.

 

 

 

I do agree they need to find some way to improve the loot system in flshpoitns.

 

 

 

These types of systems almost always empower griefers, and not the population they're implemented to protect. I would however support a system that leverages the /ignore feature as a way to prevent matchmaking with players you'd prefer not to.

 

the thing that would fix the dps problems would be to have a duel spec, most Tank and Healer AC have a dps tree as well, so if you let the dps who have access to the tank and healer trees of there class in a duel spec that opens up more choses

[Thuggy]

the thing that would fix the dps problems would be to have a duel spec, most Tank and Healer AC have a dps tree as well, so if you let the dps who have access to the tank and healer trees of there class in a duel spec that opens up more choses

 

Rift has 5 specs >.>

 

At the end of the day, people who want to DPS, want to DPS; spec flexibility is useful but does not change overall playstyles. Especially when you consider there are specific itemization paths for each role

[Griminal]

anti LFD arguments are based around nostalgia, hating anything wow did, and the fallacious argument that spamming general creates a better community.

 

This basically sums it up. I couldn't have said it better my self. I don't see how spamming general chat is "talking" and forms a "community". People seem to think others will act like jerks magically. I'll tell you I've been playing this game since release and I've encountered just as many jerks as I have in any other mmo. LFD doesn't give any anonymity. We're playing a sci-fi mmo where no one even knows your first name for christ sake. If that isn't enough anonymity to act like I jerk I don't know what else is.

[Uruare]

Rule 1 of most things in an MMO not sucking: Don't be impatient.

 

Rule 2 of most things in an MMO not sucking: Don't be greedy.

 

Rule 3 of most things in an MMO not sucking: Don't be cruel.

 

 

I think I've pretty much just addressed the bulk majority of the issues anybody's ever had with anybody else.

 

Really, it's simultaneously funny and sad to me that so many people think they need to be forced to behave at even a minimum degree of tolerability. They yell and howl and holler at a governing body to do more to force people to, essentially, be less impatient, less greedy and less cruel; to put more and more landmines in the paths of those that would be those things.

 

But only some of those things. Curb how impatient, greedy and cruel many of those same people can themselves be when their own feelings are abraded and they'll promptly degenerate to being as impatient, greedy and cruel as they think they can be.

 

All, it seems, while never connecting the dots on that if you don't want something, don't make it.

 

If you don't want your community to be foul and hateful and full of individuals that all have a mentality that they'll use you and pretend to be pleasant until they don't need you anymore, then screw you over before you can do them, one of the first absolutely vital step is to not be that way yourself.

 

If you think you should get to be if nothing is making you not be, well...you're right. And people will be just like that right back.

 

 

LFD tools do not destroy communities, intra-server or not.

 

The impatient, greedy and/or cruel do by not holding themselves to a higher standard of playing nicely with eachother.

 

There will never be a system that could effectively curb that without curbing choice altogether in a lot of ways. To be effective, such a system would, by absolute necessity, be a dictatorial system.

 

Don't be such a weak and feeble person that just won't behave in an even halfway decent manner unless you're so frightened of the consequences that you're essentially forced to, and the vast majority of the woes and doom-gloom-sky's-falling woe over LFD systems evaporate completely.

 

Or you might just see a day come when game developers, in reciprocity to your own awful behaviours in tandem with their own needs being unchanging, take more and more out of our hands.

 

No more loot rolling; end of a run or per bossfight, everyone gets a chance at getting an auto-assigned drop and all rolling is done by the engine. Say goodbye to free and open chat; you get emote-styled hyper-sterilized means of communicating that can meet the absolutely minimum and basic needs of communicating on game tactics.

 

See for reference examples loot distribution in DDO and Quick Chat/Free (heavily, heavily filtered) Chat in Free Realms.

 

These things are already in use in the industry. Arguments could be made that DDO is relatively tiny and Free Realms is for kiddies, but from a developmental standpoint in the community management department, they sure do have some good ideas for how to essentially cut a lot of this ruckus off at the pass.

 

Future development projects might see such things becoming options in a mainstream manner; the ability to turn on a smart chat filter like Free Realms'. Removing the old tabletop leftover of rolling for loot is already easily bypassable, along with every single gripe and woe its ever caused, by implementing systems like DDO's.

 

End of a dungeon, you get a chest with stuff that's probably useful for you in it. Nobody else can open it, nobody else can view its contents.

 

And as far as LFD grouping goes, those tools are nothing but beneficial from a designer's standpoint as they enable more people to do more of the content on their own time.

 

Makes it quicker and easier for people to do what they want, when they want to do it. Arguments on how it 'damages the community' are butting their abstract opinion-platforms up against hard certainties of improvement in ways designers and developers tend to care very specifically about.

 

That is to say, such arguments tend to immediately get ignored, because they are highly ignorable on a fact-and-data oriented metric.

 

So, think about what I'm saying here. That is, in the end, all I can ask anybody to do.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Uruare