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Why is Adding Grey Gear so Difficult?


Latorn

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This is in response to this article, where it is stated alignment rewards will get more powerful when grey gear is introduced. What I don't understand is why it's taking so long when it seems like an incredibly simple task, there's no need for a complete overhaul and reprogramming of the alignment system, all that needs to be done is a slight change so it works and looks something like this (L = Light, D = Dark, N = Neutral):

 

L V + N I

 

L IV + N II

 

L III + N III

 

L II + N IV

 

L I + N V

 

N V

 

D I + N V

 

D II + N IV

 

D III + N III

 

D IV + N II

 

D V + N I

 

This makeshift diagram is a forum representation of the character alignment scale ingame (you know the little bar on the side when you hit "C" ingame) The "+" means players have access to BOTH rewards each vendor. For example, people who go L IV + N II have access to both level of rewards from the respective vendor (the player can buy L IV items AND N II items). To discourage min/maxing and encourage actual decision making, the "more powerful rewards" mentioned in the PC Gamer article should be limited to the IV stage of each alignment tier, while the V tier remains purely cosmetic (mounts, small pets, titles, etc.). Is there any reason in particular this system is taking so long to be introduced? Something that was initially planned to be coming "pretty soon"?

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So neutral player automatically get the best of the 'cosmetic' pets, mounts, etc for doing nothing, while everyone else would have to grind to their respective Tier V?

 

Never mind the fact that everyone would have access to them at first. As soon as you reached Dark/Light I, presumably you'd lose all of the neutral rewards, since you no longer meet the criteria, and now have to work your way through one of the two alignments before you could earn the matching rewards.

 

Yup. That's going to happen around the time the sun goes nova. The ensuing QQ Tsunami over implementing that would totally drown any other issue they're currently crying over.

 

That's the "Devil's Advocate" spin on it... That said, the scale is a start. Maybe putting level restrictions in place on the various items in the higher tiers would balance it out. I thought I read somewhere that you generally hit Dark/Light V around 50ish, but not having a character at that level yet, I don't know for sure.

 

If you put a level 50 restriction on Tier V, and perhaps a level 40 restriction on Tier IV, that more or less levels the playing field, because generally everyone has roughly the same amount of time and/or effort invested when they reach that point.

 

There would probably be a lot of QQing over having to wait to get the N IV and N V items, but then again, I don't really see a way that you could make everyone feel like they're getting a fair deal, regardless of how it's handled. Someone, somewhere, is going to get their feelings hurt, and they'll punish everyone else by coming here to cry about it.

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It's easier to tier out neutral.

 

500 light 500 dark, tier 1 neutral

 

1000 light 1000 dark, tier 2 neutral

 

2000 light 2000 dark, tier 3 neutral

 

3500 light 3500 dark, tier 4 neutral

 

5000 light, 5000 dark, tier 5 neutral

 

That way it takes time to build up to the rewards just as fast as it does for someone going straight light or dark. Everyone gets gear at the same pace, everyone has gear for their alignment, everyone is happy except the frothing at the mouth everyone has to play how I play losers.

Edited by Meiu
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So neutral player automatically get the best of the 'cosmetic' pets, mounts, etc for doing nothing, while everyone else would have to grind to their respective Tier V?

 

Never mind the fact that everyone would have access to them at first. As soon as you reached Dark/Light I, presumably you'd lose all of the neutral rewards, since you no longer meet the criteria, and now have to work your way through one of the two alignments before you could earn the matching rewards.

 

Yup. That's going to happen around the time the sun goes nova. The ensuing QQ Tsunami over implementing that would totally drown any other issue they're currently crying over.

 

That's the "Devil's Advocate" spin on it... That said, the scale is a start. Maybe putting level restrictions in place on the various items in the higher tiers would balance it out. I thought I read somewhere that you generally hit Dark/Light V around 50ish, but not having a character at that level yet, I don't know for sure.

 

If you put a level 50 restriction on Tier V, and perhaps a level 40 restriction on Tier IV, that more or less levels the playing field, because generally everyone has roughly the same amount of time and/or effort invested when they reach that point.

 

There would probably be a lot of QQing over having to wait to get the N IV and N V items, but then again, I don't really see a way that you could make everyone feel like they're getting a fair deal, regardless of how it's handled. Someone, somewhere, is going to get their feelings hurt, and they'll punish everyone else by coming here to cry about it.

 

Two easy fixes for this. First off, if you look closely at my diagram you'll realize that Light I and Dark I also count for Neutral V, this is sliding room. The second fix is to make all rewards from Neutral IV gear and above have a level cap, and require say level 30 or 40. Even if a level 10 player stayed at N V by the time they reached the fleet, none of the rewards would be usable at their level other than the N I rewards, rewards they would otherwise have access to by min/maxing light or dark.

 

The only actually point of weakness in this system (where a player is not being granted full rewards for making their own decisions) is if the player is at the either of the points L III + N III or D III + N III, but this weakness is counteracted because it is quite simple for a player to slide to L IV + N II, L II + N IV, D IV + N II, or D II + N IV.

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Two easy fixes for this. First off, if you look closely at my diagram you'll realize that Light I and Dark I also count for Neutral V, this is sliding room. The second fix is to make all rewards from Neutral IV gear and above have a level cap, and require say level 30 or 40. Even if a level 10 player stayed at N V by the time they reached the fleet, none of the rewards would be usable at their level other than the N I rewards, rewards they would otherwise have access to by min/maxing light or dark.

 

The only actually point of weakness in this system (where a player is not being granted full rewards for making their own decisions) is if the player is at the either of the points L III + N III or D III + N III, but this weakness is counteracted because it is quite simple for a player to slide to L IV + N II, L II + N IV, D IV + N II, or D II + N IV.

 

Or just make neutral tiers like how I posted them. That way you have to build up just like light or darkside, you just divide your light/darkside.

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It's easier to tier out neutral.

 

500 light 500 dark, tier 1 neutral

 

1000 light 1000 dark, tier 2 neutral

 

2000 light 2000 dark, tier 3 neutral

 

3500 light 3500 dark, tier 4 neutral

 

5000 light, 5000 dark, tier 5 neutral

 

That way it takes time to build up to the rewards just as fast as it does for someone going straight light or dark. Everyone gets gear at the same pace, everyone has gear for their alignment, everyone is happy except the frothing at the mouth everyone has to play how I play losers.

 

This is also a very simple to implement and good idea, the only problem is (and I don't have enough alignment points personally to test it out) aren't alignment points capped at 10,000? I personally don't know for sure, but I've heard that any points gained past 10,000 points start to delete points from the other side. Unless this cap is removed attaining a perfect balance of 5000 Light and 5000 Dark would be impossible without players intentionally making decisions to attain that balance, thus forcing their hand once again.

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Perhaps they have multiple teams working on multiple things right now? Just a thought.

 

Yes, and your point is...?

 

Having multiple teams working on a project doesn't mean that you're going go get the results that you specifically want immediately.

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Yes, and your point is...?

 

Having multiple teams working on a project doesn't mean that you're going go get the results that you specifically want immediately.

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think it's just me specifically ;)

Edited by Latorn
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I could be wrong, but I don't think it's just me specifically ;)

 

You're deflecting the point. You're the one here asking for grey gear, you made this thread. Now there are many people who want grey gear as well - but they aren't you, now are they?

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Perhaps implementing neutral gear isn't a priority for them right now? Just a thought.

 

It should be. Having to be either Snow White or the Devil just to fill your relic slots is silly. Instead of my BH making the decisions he should make I have to go either pure dark or pure light so I can fill my slots.

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You're deflecting the point. You're the one here asking for grey gear, you made this thread. Now there are many people who want grey gear as well - but they aren't you, now are they?

 

I've been an advocate for grey gear since beta. I'm not sure what Bioware's priorities are other than, as James Ohlen stated, making player priorities their priorities. That is why I mentioned that it's not just me that wants it, it wasn't only the fact that they initially planned to release it soon after launch:

 

" "We've have a plan for [grey items]," Ohlen told me. "It's not in yet. It's something that's very near and dear to the heats of the writing team in particular." Will neutral players have something concrete to look forward to by the Old Republic's launch in a couple of months? "We'll get a few things in," Ohlen says. " -Source (geez that source took a while to look up).

Edited by Latorn
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And how many people want grey gear, exactly? As apposed to how many people want new content, or new bug fixes, or a thousand other little things?

 

Can you say without a shadow of a doubt that your cause is the most important one by far?

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It's easier to tier out neutral.

 

500 light 500 dark, tier 1 neutral

 

1000 light 1000 dark, tier 2 neutral

 

2000 light 2000 dark, tier 3 neutral

 

3500 light 3500 dark, tier 4 neutral

 

5000 light, 5000 dark, tier 5 neutral

 

That way it takes time to build up to the rewards just as fast as it does for someone going straight light or dark. Everyone gets gear at the same pace, everyone has gear for their alignment, everyone is happy except the frothing at the mouth everyone has to play how I play losers.

 

I like this one better. Sorry OP

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And how many people want grey gear, exactly? As apposed to how many people want new content, or new bug fixes, or a thousand other little things?

 

Can you say without a shadow of a doubt that your cause is the most important one by far?

 

No. I never said it was the MOST important. However, it is EXTREMELY important, and it's taking too long for a feature that was supposed to be in before release.

 

Decision making is the most unique aspect of this MMO, and without alignment mattering/decision making being forced, the most unique feature is currently broken.

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However, it is EXTREMELY important, and it's taking too long for a feature that was supposed to be in before release.

 

To who exactly, you? And how many other people? I know it's not EXTREMELY important to me. Before I leave this thread for good, let me leave you with something:

 

What you consider as EXTREMELY important, and what BioWare considers EXTREMELY important may not be one and the same.

 

Peace.

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To who exactly, you? And how many other people? I know it's not EXTREMELY important to me. Before I leave this thread for good, let me leave you with something:

 

What you consider as EXTREMELY important, and what BioWare considers EXTREMELY important may not be one and the same.

 

Peace.

 

I know it's extremely important to James Ohlen, and the Bioware writing team.

 

But if you read my posts, or clicked the links you'd know that.

 

Peace.

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wow im shocked at the amount of people who are against this feature which bioware said would be in during beta then said oops no wait after launch.... sorry and it is a major part of the starwars universe.. :S

 

Only one person has disagreed with the idea of grey gear.. in this thread anyways, but I definitely hear you, it's strange how there seems to be a split among players regarding grey gear. The unfortunate thing is when it comes to discussing grey/neutral gear you're either arguing one of two sides.

 

1) Neutral gear needs to be implemented so that decisions aren't forced, and the choice this game is so fond of advertising isn't destroyed because people that pick light or dark all the time get better rewards.

 

or

 

2) Neutral gear doesn't matter or need to be implemented because there are relics that can be gathered from elsewhere, and alignment doesn't do anything other than supply weak relics.

 

 

Both of these are sad arguments, because if you're arguing #1 you are stating that the decision making system (the most unique feature of this MMO I might add) is currently broken and unbalanced because people are being penalized for making their own choices.

 

Now if you're arguing #2 this is equally as sad, because you're arguing that the alignment system currently doesn't matter or make a difference on the game whatsoever, so there is no need to add neutral gear because neutrals aren't missing out on anything. Essentially you're arguing that the most unique feature, really isn't a feature at all.

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Only one person has disagreed with the idea of grey gear.. in this thread anyways, but I definitely hear you, it's strange how there seems to be a split among players regarding grey gear. The unfortunate thing is when it comes to discussing grey/neutral gear you're either arguing one of two sides.

 

1) Neutral gear needs to be implemented so that decisions aren't forced, and the choice this game is so fond of advertising isn't destroyed because people that pick light or dark all the time get better rewards.

 

or

 

2) Neutral gear doesn't matter or need to be implemented because there are relics that can be gathered from elsewhere, and alignment doesn't do anything other than supply weak relics.

 

 

Both of these are sad arguments, because if you're arguing #1 you are stating that the decision making system (the most unique feature of this MMO I might add) is currently broken and unbalanced because people are being penalized for making their own choices.

 

Now if you're arguing #2 this is equally as sad, because you're arguing that the alignment system currently doesn't matter or make a difference on the game whatsoever, so there is no need to add neutral gear because neutrals aren't missing out on anything. Essentially you're arguing that the most unique feature, really isn't a feature at all.

 

This really sums up the sadness of the arguments on this topic quite well.

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What they need are more... "must not be" type gear. Right now, there are too many "must be" gear, which is like 95% of all the stuff in the game.

 

If you notice the color crystals, they're already doing it. The problem with this game is that there are too many lore/RP "fact finders" that would make threads complaining about something like grey gear being story-breaking because a grey Jedi may wear something that doesnt look quite Jedi.

 

You guys should see what my JK wears... I look like a chick that came straight from the club, wearing aviators and everything haha.

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