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BW had multiple MMO's to model after and....


Torothin

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We don't want a WoW-clone, or any other MMO clone, becuase that old standard is dead and beating. I like that BW is actually doing something different to break away from the mold.

Different how?

 

This game is a clone of EARLY version of the above named mmos without all end content, fixes and so on.

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I SO much want Alternate Advancement from EQ. At a single stroke a system like that would give level 50s a lot more to do, answer the issues from people who say they are levelling too fast, add more character customisation ....

 

Brilliant system - of all the things they should have copied from elsewhere this is #1 on my list.

 

I can't even call this an MMO because it doesn't seem very massive. We've got a lot of servers, but like Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, the population is too spread out. Go to Dromund Kas or the city planet, however it's spelled, you'll see a lot of people online. Now go to any planet after that other than maybe Coreillia/Ilum and notice how planets like Alderaan and Tattooine are lucky to have 20 players on at once.

 

If the servers were consolidated to be able to handle larger loads and thus stuff the population into them, it'd be much easier to find groups.

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I can't even call this an MMO because it doesn't seem very massive. We've got a lot of servers, but like Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, the population is too spread out. Go to Dromund Kas or the city planet, however it's spelled, you'll see a lot of people online. Now go to any planet after that other than maybe Coreillia/Ilum and notice how planets like Alderaan and Tattooine are lucky to have 20 players on at once.

 

If the servers were consolidated to be able to handle larger loads and thus stuff the population into them, it'd be much easier to find groups.

 

This game is a lot like (mmo that doesnt have 12 million subscribers) because it isnt like WoW.

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Different how?

 

This game is a clone of EARLY version of the above named mmos without all end content, fixes and so on.

 

Precisely. People point fingers at WoW, but all this game is, from its archaic talent trees, quest system and class system is a 100% rip off of WoW with an added layer of voice overs and cut scenes.

 

Your companions are just hunter pets with scripted comments and interaction in your cut scenes.

 

Your talent trees? Every class has 3 trees? one is either healing/tank and the other 2 are dps?One of those 2 trees is more raid and one is more pvp? Omg...no games every done that? (sorry snipers/gun slingers, in this game your rogues, for you its all 3 dps)

 

You level up via quests from npcs with markers over their head? Omg. No game has ever done that.

 

This game is SO innovative!

 

Lets be real. SWTOR has 2 things it did differnetly.

 

A: Lightsabers (except not really, SWG)

B: Voice overs and cut scenes (Except not really, other mmos have done this, SWTOR just did it every chance they could, even when it made no sense like the boring non class quests).

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This game is a lot like (mmo that doesnt have 12 million subscribers) because it isnt like WoW.

 

This game is exactly like WoW except:

 

They are using WoWs game design from 2007 instead of the modern game design. Look at the class talent trees vs the ones in wow in 2007.

 

They lack any features of a modern WoW, like LFG or a real PvP system.

 

This game puts voice overs on everything and calls that immersion, despite the fact most of the plot is so paper thing and dull people space bar through it.

 

 

What else sets this apart from WoW? Oh yeah..it wont ever have as many subscribers.

 

 

(this from a Rift fan, not a WoW fan)

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It seriously Irks me that they're STILL trying to market this as "YOUR saga" when in all actuallity it's "BIOWARES failure". Story wise it's not that bad, but there is so little choice in the game and what little choice there is doesn't seem to have any effect on the game. Even when the Forums cried out for things like more species that were less human the Devs said "NO, because that doesnt fit OUR story". When the fans wanted more character options BW flat out ignored it.

 

Mechanics wise this game is half assed and poorly put together. Frankly for the money, time, and hype they've put into it, the game is pretty much useless after the first play though.

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This game is exactly like WoW except:

 

They are using WoWs game design from 2007 instead of the modern game design. Look at the class talent trees vs the ones in wow in 2007.

 

They lack any features of a modern WoW, like LFG or a real PvP system.

 

This game puts voice overs on everything and calls that immersion, despite the fact most of the plot is so paper thing and dull people space bar through it.

 

 

What else sets this apart from WoW? Oh yeah..it wont ever have as many subscribers.

 

 

(this from a Rift fan, not a WoW fan)

Actually Id say the talent trees look more like AOC at launch then wow. Remember AOC was originally going to let you choose an archetype at creation then an advanced class at around level 10 the classes in an archetype share one talent tree with each other then have 2 unique ones. Sound familiar? the only difference is the AOC devs rightly decided to just have you choose your advanced class at creation rather then waste time with the useless archetype in the beginning.

 

The game-play on the other hand does feel ripped from wow. AOC at least had a somewhat innovative combat system. This game is just 12345 12345 and wait for GCD in-between. Some of the classes feel a little unique but some feel like carbon copies of wow classes JK/SW Im looking at you *cough* Warrior *cough*

 

All in all I agree the game-play is uninspired. The much vaunted choice is an illusion dark side and light side endings really have no REAL bearing on anything and dont actually significantly change the story in any meaningful way not like they could in previous kotor games.

 

But lets be honest. The bioware devs have been blizzard nutswingers from the beginning I was expecting a wow clone with a kotor game stamped on top that's what we got. Anyone who expected differently had vastly over inflated expectations.

 

I'm sure the game will do well enough to survive. I know plenty of people who are just fine with it being wow in space. And I play it to see the story before I move on to GW2.

Edited by mezlabor
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With all the games SWTOR had to take ideas from I would have expected more end game options like AA's type stuff from EQ with Duel Spec Talent Tree availability from Rift and WoW.

 

Outside of Storyline Quests SWTOR didn't offer anything "new".

 

Don't get me wrong,I enjoyed SWTOR but am disapointed with the lack of end game options considering the amount of money they said they put into it and the games they had to take ideas from.

Edited by Jcdew
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The game's barely been out for long.

 

Shut up and remove yourself from that false sense of entitlement. You want bioware to deliver to you a fully fleshed MMORPG with zero problems in it's design on release day? Then you're an over-expectant idiot, either that or you just enjoy complaining about things.

 

- Endgame will come.

- Bugfixes will come.

- LFD, no matter how I don't want it personally, will probably come.

- UI customizability is coming.

- Classes will be tweaked.

 

Stop whining because these things aren't happening instantly.

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The game's barely been out for long.

 

Shut up and remove yourself from that false sense of entitlement. You want bioware to deliver to you a fully fleshed MMORPG with zero problems in it's design on release day? Then you're an over-expectant idiot, either that or you just enjoy complaining about things.

 

- Endgame will come.

- Bugfixes will come.

- LFD, no matter how I don't want it personally, will probably come.

- UI customizability is coming.

- Classes will be tweaked.

 

Stop whining because these things aren't happening instantly.

 

Yes, when they ask me to pay for it I expect a fully featured game. If they want to me help them develop it, they should've put some stocks in the box instead of cds.

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Yes, when they ask me to pay for it I expect a fully featured game. If they want to me help them develop it, they should've put some stocks in the box instead of cds.

 

Please. Name one MMORPG that was fully-featured, had a fleshed out endgame with zero to no bugs at launch with no issues and I will kiss your feet.

 

The current shortcomings of this game are a fault of the genre, not of bioware specifically. It's just the nature of this kind of game. If you think otherwise, then clearly you havn't seen any other launches.

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We don't want a WoW-clone, or any other MMO clone, becuase that old standard is dead and beating. I like that BW is actually doing something different to break away from the mold.

 

It doesnt matter if you want one or not, You got one, Its called SWTOR and it even lacks many things WOW and other many MMOS show that are needed fro the game to keep itsel selling.

 

Dont get me wrong, i dont want pandas in here either, but to deny the fact that the game lacks in many fields would be like saying I have the chassis and the tires, so i only miss a couple of things to have a completed car in perfect working condition. How about a proper engine? Aesthetics (see here textures ingame a big issue that even head devs commented and agreed are not as good), then after all the stuff a destination (here see end game).

 

I hope you arent lost in my metaphors and understood my examples :)

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BW you had several MMO's to use as a reference to find out what worked and what did not. WoW obviously set the bar on many levels. But you had so many references and this is the end result? This is the best you could come up with when you had WoW, EQ, GW, DAOC, and Eve-Online to use as examples of great MMO's.

 

That is why so many people are upset. You had all this hype for this game. You even had references to find out what worked and what didn't. 300m budget and what we get as an end result is this? That is why there are so many rage posts BW.

 

What we have here is a great game lvl 1-49 and then a serious lack of end-game content. Thoughts?

 

My thought is:

 

Alot people think it is not enough WoW and some others find it's too much of WoW. Both crowds do have a point. If you stray away too far you risk people alienating a crowd you want to appeal to in the same sense if it's just plain copying everywhere then people will come up with claims like there is little innovation.

 

But the latter has been thrown against WoW as well which itself is a masterpiece of disguised and creative use of copy&paste. It all started with them cleverly integrating all established EQ mechanics. I was part of the crowd back then who criticised them alot for being not innovative enough and let others (competitors) have ideas first before taking it from them.

 

In regards of lack of content, people have been spoiled too much or are unaware of the fact that content in a running MMO is always WIP. WoW even went as far and starved their customers alot on content-side for a long time, didn't matter though people still played it. It's more important they come up with something which isn't burned through within days and then is making people to demand even more content.

 

Lastly the 300m USD number has been refuted alot, not sure why people still bring it up.

And I wouldn't expect someone creating an EVE clone. It's a well-established game but very niche.:cool:

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BW you had several MMO's to use as a reference to find out what worked and what did not. WoW obviously set the bar on many levels. But you had so many references and this is the end result? This is the best you could come up with when you had WoW, EQ, GW, DAOC, and Eve-Online to use as examples of great MMO's.

 

That is why so many people are upset. You had all this hype for this game. You even had references to find out what worked and what didn't. 300m budget and what we get as an end result is this? That is why there are so many rage posts BW.

 

What we have here is a great game lvl 1-49 and then a serious lack of end-game content. Thoughts?

 

DAOC was three army pvp soit never got lopsided. GW let you by into 50 pvp so all the skill scrounging was worthless. Eve I heard was great and had lots of friends play it and internet poker at the same time while harvesting.

 

Wow was a crap storm on launch, so was eq2.

 

All EQ1 had was Lower Guk (Live and Dead side) . The power of soloing the Guk assassain and the Arch Magi with my skelli, what a thrill.

 

Anyone remember the 2 daggers bug and the 2 stun whips bug for arming skelli pets - all, the good old time.

 

Let SWTOR get content for 50's and get optimized. It suck paying for beta but level your alts and be Fotm proof - or go back to MW3 - cant go wrong to get out frustration there.

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Greywatch,you realize that a lot of things should have already been in game,players shouldn't have to wait for it considering what BW had to work with.

 

Rift's Launch was smoother and had less bugs,of course they lacked endgame.

 

Endgame is understandable bugs are not.

 

DAOC PvP was awesome at release,it was after they started adding expansions that they totally borked it,imo at least.

 

Businesses love people like you Grey,they can release incomplete or bad products and you never say a word.

Edited by Jcdew
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All new MMO's go through a period of whining from some in the community but this is getting ridiculous. I swear I think Blizzard is PAYING people to complain on this forum or something.

 

Even WoW had some of the SAME things said about it back in the day. But remember kiddies. WoW is the exception NOT the rule. No MMO will likely EVER be as big as WoW is. Its a giant super-fat hutt of a game that is so lazy and fond of itself that it will just sit there and grow till it eventually dies. No other game will hurt it.

 

TOR doesnt NEED to be as big as WoW. Stop trying to compare everything to the mutant freak and instead compare it to every OTHER MMO out there. When you look at it like that, its all fine I think.

 

WoW will go down in history as the biggest MMO. Blizzard can sleep good at night knowing it got that. Just take your WoWbation and go back to their forums. TOR will be just fine.

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Please. Name one MMORPG that was fully-featured, had a fleshed out endgame with zero to no bugs at launch with no issues and I will kiss your feet.

 

The current shortcomings of this game are a fault of the genre, not of bioware specifically. It's just the nature of this kind of game. If you think otherwise, then clearly you havn't seen any other launches.

 

It's that argument again... Look, bugs are to be expected. Not so many mind you, but still, they can be fixed eventually. Endgame content will be added over time, I honestly think that the 2 operations coupled with the heroics are enough content, even though they're buggy and too easy, but still.

 

What is utterly unacceptable is the broken combat mechanics, the unmodifiable ui, the lack of a combat log, guild functionality, group facilitating tools and so forth. The fundamental systems that make a game fun to play are either poorly implemented, buggy or not implemented at all.

 

And it's not like they didn't know that. The infamous 2007 lecture of that guy clearly states that they know the importance of a solid foundation at launch, that players are expecting your systems to be at least equally good with what's out there and they won't forgive you if they're not. And he's right, we won't.

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