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BW had multiple MMO's to model after and....


Torothin

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This EXACTLY! how I feel.

 

The Class story was great and I enjoyed it a lot.....then it ended and I went to Illum.

 

Illum is just a planet where you go kill 10 rats over and over and over again, I actually felt heartbroken and logged out to watch TV when this happened and didnt really play for the rest of that weekend.

 

That is an issue I was fearing. There's a great article on IGN.com on this.

 

I think this is what it comes down to. The questing/leveling in nearly every other MMO to date has always been this menial kill/fetch format with some text to read but not much participation aside from killing. The main objective of questing/leveling was to get to the endgame which was nearly always better because of how meaningless the leveling was.

 

TOR lets you have real dialogue with a questgiver and even lets you make a choice that reflects your character's journey/growth. It is a WHOLE lot more immersive.

 

When you have leveling that's way more immersive yet endgame that's standard, people will notice the glaring difference. This is the first MMO I have ever played where the questing/leveling is soooo good, that the endgame can suffer automatically as a result.

 

It's a point I've been wondering about long before this game came out.

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BW you had several MMO's to use as a reference to find out what worked and what did not. WoW obviously set the bar on many levels. But you had so many references and this is the end result? This is the best you could come up with when you had WoW, EQ, GW, DAOC, and Eve-Online to use as examples of great MMO's.

 

That is why so many people are upset. You had all this hype for this game. You even had references to find out what worked and what didn't. 300m budget and what we get as an end result is this? That is why there are so many rage posts BW.

 

What we have here is a great game lvl 1-49 and then a serious lack of end-game content. Thoughts?

 

My thought is that You title and thread should read:

 

BW had multiple MMO's to model after and......

 

....they didn't chose the one I like :"(

 

the end

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A clone wearing different clothes is still the same thing underneath.

 

A clone is an exact copy of it's parent. No different. The one complaint is how much they forgot. This is the evolution from WoW. Maybe not as far as some of us would like, but it is. Just as WoW is the evold from Everquest. Say this is a clone would by it argument mean Wow is a clone. And as I said, Sonic is a clone of Mario. Yes they are the same genuria, MMORPG. But the big evolution is the RPG actrually mean something here.

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We don't want a WoW-clone, or any other MMO clone, becuase that old standard is dead and beating. I like that BW is actually doing something different to break away from the mold.

 

ok, what's different?

there is NOTHING new in this game, not one single thing

were you living under a rock the last 10 years?

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We don't want a WoW-clone, or any other MMO clone, becuase that old standard is dead and beating. I like that BW is actually doing something different to break away from the mold.

 

I could understand your point if it wasn't for the fact that BIOWARE STEPPED BACK IN TIME when making this damn game. So sick of the 'all is great' posts.

 

This game is a ridiculous mess. It is a clone through-and-through but a very BAD clone at that.

Edited by Proto
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A clone is an exact copy of it's parent. No different. The one complaint is how much they forgot. This is the evolution from WoW. Maybe not as far as some of us would like, but it is. Just as WoW is the evold from Everquest. Say this is a clone would by it argument mean Wow is a clone. And as I said, Sonic is a clone of Mario. Yes they are the same genuria, MMORPG. But the big evolution is the RPG actrually mean something here.

 

pe·dan·tic [puh-dan-tik]

2. overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, especially in teaching.

 

It's a sloppy cut-paste job of fundamental warcraft design badly merged with things that made the KOTOR games fun (but are way, way beyond calling them revolutionary).

 

A bunch of players now caring about their characters is not an innovation, they're just the types too illiterate to be engaged by a text storyline like Warcraft, unimaginative to embellish for themselves, and unable to see through a choose-your-own-adventure book to the structure beneath and the tiny modicum of choice it actually affords.

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If BioWare were a greasy foreign guy selling watches out of a van downtown...

 

BW: "Hey buddy!"

Mark: "No thank you."

BW: "Hey buddy, you want buy watch?"

Mark: "Busy, no thank you."

BW: "Buddy, buddy, I got great watch here! Rolex, you like!"

Mark: "No, I already have a watch."

BW: "Good watch! Rolex, best watch! I like you, I make you good deal because we friends!"

Mark: "Well, that does look all right..."

BW: "Good good, yes, you take watch! For you, only $200! Is $2000 watch!"

Mark: "No, that's too much."

BW: "Okay, okay $100 for you because you drive such hard bargain!"

Mark: "It does match my belt...hey wait a minute, this says Rolexx!"

BW: "Yeah yeah, Rolexx, two X, is new! Is one better than Rolex, no?"

Mark: "Doesn't seem reliable..."

BW: "Hey, buddy, buddy, for you, because we such good friends? $50 now. You like, you come back next month, give me $15 more, eh? BioWare be here, right here! I trust you, you have honest face! You trust me, I trust you, eh?"

Mark: "Okay, okay I'll take it!"

BW: "Good, good here you go! no refunds."

<watch falls apart 3 minutes later>

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The thread title is nice, but it implies that Bioware ever took the time to look, much less play, a MMO before they began making this game.

 

I'm being serious; it's painfully obvious that Bioware heard about MMO's from a newspaper or something and went off of that.

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We don't want a WoW-clone, or any other MMO clone, becuase that old standard is dead and beating. I like that BW is actually doing something different to break away from the mold.

 

Are they making another game?

 

Oh, you meant this one.......

 

I like the game, no really .... I do. Otherwise I wouldn't be here.

 

However.

 

Take away the cut scenes and the voice acting and it is, basically, the same copy pasta as every other MMO we've seen before.

 

Quite literally the ONLY thing that sets this apart from other MMO's is the story is interesting. Couldn't give a damn why Bob the dweller in every other MMO wanted 12 wolves nasal hairs but here Bob has a sort of personality.

 

He still wants 12 nasal hairs but this time he asks for it instead of giving me a shopping list and expecting my lazy self to read it and then run off and do it.

 

But Bob is still Bob. Albeit a shiny new Bob with a voice and a blaster (keep noticing civilians armed to the teeth .... no wonder the place is at war when they give every moron a gun, yes that includes me .. although i'm a Merc not a civvy so I have an excuse for being a moron with a gun).

 

All i'm saying is that, while it is a fun game, it is your standard MMO with better writing, cutscenes and voice acting.

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We don't want a WoW-clone, or any other MMO clone, becuase that old standard is dead and beating. I like that BW is actually doing something different to break away from the mold.

 

Other than VO, this game plays almost exactly like WoW but more clunky with arguably the worst UI ever made in an MMO. If you ever played WoW, you will not notice much difference gameplay wise. You get to end level and there is nothing but grinds, just like WoW; only thing they left out was rep grinds, which I will bet my hat will show up eventually as an added time sink.

Edited by fixit
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Some of us look at Night Elves vs. Twileks and voice over/cut scenes vs. quest text and the spaceships vs. flying griffons and see a different game.

 

Some of us look at the game play and class design as nicely illustrated here http://i.imgur.com/UmcMV.jpg and and the talent trees and the linear advancement and the kill X imperials, recover Y datapads or interact with Z turrets and feel like we are playing the exact same thing.

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Other than VO, this game plays almost exactly like WoW but more clunky with arguably the worst UI ever made in an MMO. If you ever played WoW, you will not notice much difference gameplay wise. You get to end level and there is nothing but grinds, just like WoW; only thing they left out was rep grinds, which I will bet my hat will show up eventually as an added time sink.

 

No don't you see, there's a "refuse quest option" in SW:ToR! In the dark ages of Warcraft you had to just walk away from the dude and pretend your character said something snarky. Innovation!

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All i'm saying is that, while it is a fun game, it is your standard MMO with better writing, cutscenes and voice acting.

 

I'll agree with this. This MMO has by far the best leveling/questing I've experienced purely because of the writing/cutscenes/voice acting/choices.

 

But after that the endgame is your standard endgame.

 

But tbh, that was my expectation. I think it just comes down to that for most people.

 

I've researched this game religiously before it came out and the questing really looked great but the endgame really seemed like WoW. But I actually enjoy WoW's endgame so that was ok for me personally.

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What's new is I give a damn about my character.

 

I'm not just a random bag of pixels racing to max level. Admittedly, you can blindly race to max level as in WoW, but that one of WoW's major flaws not something to repeat.

 

Even after Cata, WoW's insanely dull to level in because you aren't part of the world. Questgiver talks at you. You do stuff. Questgiver talks more at you and gives you gold. Who are you? You're huntard number 8,647. Because there's nothing in the game to make your character different than anyone else's character. You all interact with the world in exactly the same way.

 

I fully realize this isn't a plus for everyone, especially those with ADD. But it's nice to play a game that's actually a game and not an overly elaborate lobby for raids and arenas.

 

So you like playing Single player games then? Everything you just said is what makes an mmo an mmo. Not a single player game with a few online options.

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I SO much want Alternate Advancement from EQ. At a single stroke a system like that would give level 50s a lot more to do, answer the issues from people who say they are levelling too fast, add more character customisation ....

 

Brilliant system - of all the things they should have copied from elsewhere this is #1 on my list.

 

I agree AAXP was an awesome idea. I am surprised it didn't catch on with other games. It definitely extends the leveling process so there is a purpose once you hit max level. Of course with a system like that in place, the knuckleheads that are crying about nothing to do at 50 would be crying about the game being too "grindy".

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I don't get the logic of the OP and those that think the same.

 

This is BioWare's first MMO. BioWare has no previous experience to draw from. They are having to invent the wheel for themselves. They cannot simply steal code from other MMO's. What they WANT to implement and what they CAN implement at this time are probably two different things. I believe, however, that they have a solid foundation to build from.

 

I really don't know what some others were expecting out of this game. Perhaps my expectations were lower. Either way, I am happy with the game, for now -- especially since BioWare seems to be continually evolving and patching SWTOR.

 

 

Here's a question for ya:

 

You are the exec of a major game company, and you've decided you want in on the lovely MMO market. What do you do?

 

1) Tell your crew, who've so far only done single player RPGs, to "Make an MMO game now".

 

Or

 

2) Hire a crew of experienced MMO-designers and supply with artists/coders from your own staff?

 

 

I can safely say that BW did option 2. Hell, several of the main decisionmakers have been involved in several major MMOs over the past 10 years.

 

The "first MMO" excuse, pleh

Edited by Parali
rude
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I don't get the logic of the OP and those that think the same.

 

This is BioWare's first MMO. BioWare has no previous experience to draw from. They are having to invent the wheel for themselves. They cannot simply steal code from other MMO's. What they WANT to implement and what they CAN implement at this time are probably two different things. I believe, however, that they have a solid foundation to build from.

 

I really don't know what some others were expecting out of this game. Perhaps my expectations were lower. Either way, I am happy with the game, for now -- especially since BioWare seems to be continually evolving and patching SWTOR.

 

No one reinvents the wheel, because it would be a waste of time to do so, as it's already been done.

 

A brand new tire company in 2012 isn't going to launch a tubless (solid rubber) tire because they haven't, themselves, done the research and learned that inflating a thin layer of strong rubber is actually a better design - they know the research is done.

 

Bioware, in many areas, seem to have acted like a new tire company releasing, for it's first tire for market, the original tire design from over 100 years ago, and they want you to have faith that they'll eventually figure out how to make inflatables, so in the meantime will you keep buying their solid rubber tires?

 

I could list all the areas where their design is years behind even games released over 5 years ago, but that's been done elsewhere.

 

What many people are wondering, though, is if this is all Bioware could come up with in terms of design, after hundred's of millions of dollars and years of work - how long will it take them to bring the game up to 2011 MMO standards, and is it worth their time to stick it out?

 

I paid for 1 month, and from what I've seen (or, rather, what I've not seen) from Bioware since launch, it's probably not worth my time, as I've actually heard very little of substance from anyone at Bioware in the 5 weeks I've been playing, compared to what I think they should be saying.

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fixed that for you. And just because that is your history with games doesn't mean it fits into the context of 'gamer' that my post implied.

 

generalize me, baby.

 

Wow, amazing you still don't understand what generalization means. I said as a gamer i find it is a game i enjoy, this is not a generlaization. You said all gamers wouldn't like it. This is a generlization.

 

amazing lack of comprehension

Edited by TheHeadCapper
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I'd rather Bioware went after a more original sandbox style MMO than the now standard WoW style.

But that's just me. You can never please everybody.

And from a marketing point, it's obvious why they chose to follow WoW.

 

At least you're reasonable about it. We have 1000 angry nerds is this thread quoting the doom of TOR because its not what they wanted.

 

Too bad there are a million non-angry nerds logged on having fun.

Edited by Arkerus
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We don't want a WoW-clone, or any other MMO clone, becuase that old standard is dead and beating. I like that BW is actually doing something different to break away from the mold.

 

Umm thats exactly what swtor is... the same ole same ole.

 

The only difference is companions that craft for you and.... voice acted quests.

 

Other then that ITS EXACTLY like anything else thats been on the market for the past 10 years.

 

Wheres this mold breaking you are talking about.... because guess what endgame crafting is useless... voice acting is useless... your 50 no more quests.... and um the usual mmo grind for gear and pvping for random chances at pvp gear....

 

Let me know how they broke the mold im actually interested in your reply because I might be missing a big part of the game... you know the part that is mold breaking.

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I'd rather Bioware went after a more original sandbox style MMO than the now standard WoW style.

But that's just me. You can never please everybody.

And from a marketing point, it's obvious why they chose to follow WoW.

 

Follow and straight-up copy are two different things. http://i.imgur.com/UmcMV.jpg

 

Its ok to model your game after other ones, but to totally XEROX another game (and poorly I might add) with less features and different graphics is a recipe for failure. That is what this game is.

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