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Reverse Engineering is terrible(awesome at first glance)


notatroll

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I know it sucks when you bust your rump trying to get that one rare drop. Unfortunately, % chance to get that items doesn't take that into account. If the item has a 1% drop rate, that means you have a 1% chance for each RE to get that item. It's not 1 out of 99 attempts. So RE'ing 270 still only gives you that 1% chance.

 

RE'ing a high level item (such as an artifact) should yield a higher drop rate (assuming Bioware thinks along the same lines).

 

*note: I'm only using 1% as a random number, I do not know what the actual drop rate is.

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Personally, I think your chance of success should improve with each attempt. That way, the more times you try it the more likely you are to succeed. Of course that system makes too much sense so it will never happen.

 

The least fun things to do are those that either are too easy or impossible. Nothing should require more than 12 tries to RE. Only Don Quixote enjoyed tilting a windmill.

Edited by AerionIstari
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Personally, I think your chance of success should improve with each attempt. That way, the more times you try it the more likely you are to succeed. Of course that system makes too much sense so it will never happen.

 

That would be a lot of things to track, given how many recipes there are.

 

The simpler way would be that, whenever you RE something, you get a tier and quality appropriate badge. And then there's a vendor that sells the recipes for X badges. RE a green T6 earring, get a green T6 cybertech badge. And for some number, say 100, you can buy a blue cybertech recipe. So, you'll want to RE things to randomly learn recipes. But along the way, you'll earn badges to get what just plain eludes you due to bad luck.

 

In essence, the same system used in HMs. You could get the loot drop you need from the boss, but if you don't, have bad luck for whatever reason, eventually, you can just buy it with the badges you got.

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The crafting system in this game is awesome. I loved every part of it. I had 400 Biochem since 29, now I (insert curse word) hate it.

 

I crafted TWO HUNDRED AND TWELVE (212) BLUE lvl 49 implants - THE SAME TYPE - Critical Nano-Optic Might Package. All I ever wanted with this crap profession was to get the ENDOWMENT C N O M P.

 

I HAVE REVERSE ENGINEERED 212 OF THE SAME BLUE ITEM ONLY TO SEE "YOU HAVE ALREADY DISCOVERED THAT RECIPE" pop on the screen 20 times. I have all the other 4 researched - I understand that the CHANCE IS RANDOM - BUT DONT WASTE ALL MY CHANCES, THAT I GET ONE IN 30 IMPLANTS ANYWAY IF IM LUCKY, ON RECIPES THE GAME CAN'T FRIGGIN TELL THAT I ALREADY HAVE.

 

And if this is "working as intended" i'm gonna instantly UNSUB. This game requires more grinding than any other game with retarded remnants of a bad system (like what the **** do they still have merc commendations in if they removed the means to get them - just make the champ bags 800 wz commendations).

 

I'm so friggin sick and tired of this badly thought out system.

 

I WASTED AT LEAST 800 000 CREDITS ON MISSIONS TO MAKE 212 IMPLANTS - IS THIS NOT ENOUGH TIME AND RESOURCES INVESTED TO GET ONE FRIGGIN IMPLANT THAT I WANT?

 

 

yes, i used a lot of caps and the post is a pain to read. deal with it.

 

WAI, unsub immediately and stop clogging the forums with your nonsense. Thanks for the $60, move along.

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Reverse engineering is stupid. The simple fact that "You already know that schematic" even exists shows just how broken the system is. For one thing, they nerfed the chance when they introduced the last patch. I know because my proc rates went down dramatically. Any dev who tells you otherwise is straight up lying or doesn't know what the hell they are talking about. What Bioware really intended was for everyone to go Biochem or Cybertech at 50. Everything else was just a leveling crutch. May as well do what they obviously wanted us to do... Edited by KiranK
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Reverse engineering is stupid. The simple fact that "You already know that schematic" even exists shows just how broken the system is. For one thing, they nerfed the chance when they introduced the last patch. I know because my proc rates went down dramatically. Any dev who tells you otherwise is straight up lying or doesn't know what the hell they are talking about. What Bioware really intended was for everyone to go Biochem or Cybertech at 50. Everything else was just a leveling crutch. May as well do what they obviously wanted us to do...

 

Really? You know because YOUR proc rates went down dramatically? YOU, dear sir, are not the center of the universe in case you were not aware. My proc rates not only have not gone down, they have gone up. Perhaps because of my companion being more affectionate, more likely just because that's how random works. Stop accusing the devs of lying because you can't understand the word random.

 

Got a level 49 purple schem out of less than 10 RE's total of the critical blue (I believe it was more like 7 but I don't keep exact track the way that some people claim to).

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Really? You know because YOUR proc rates went down dramatically? YOU, dear sir, are not the center of the universe in case you were not aware. My proc rates not only have not gone down, they have gone up. Perhaps because of my companion being more affectionate, more likely just because that's how random works. Stop accusing the devs of lying because you can't understand the word random.

 

Got a level 49 purple schem out of less than 10 RE's total of the critical blue (I believe it was more like 7 but I don't keep exact track the way that some people claim to).

 

Wait you know its not broken because YOUR proc rate on one item was less then 10 RE's total? YOU, dear sir, are not the center of the universe in case you were not aware. My proc rates not only have not gone up, they've gone down. Because perhaps because of my characters elvel going uip, more likely just because that's how random works. Stop trying to cover for the devs, when you don't know if they lied or not because you don't understand how the system works either.

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Wait you know its not broken because YOUR proc rate on one item was less then 10 RE's total? YOU, dear sir, are not the center of the universe in case you were not aware. My proc rates not only have not gone up, they've gone down. Because perhaps because of my characters elvel going uip, more likely just because that's how random works. Stop trying to cover for the devs, when you don't know if they lied or not because you don't understand how the system works either.

 

Wow, a parrot that can type, how amazing.

 

And no, I simply mentioned the level 49 as my most recent example. 3 times yesterday I also RE'd 2 items at a time and got a blue schem. So that's 3 blue schems out of 6 RE's. I could keep going if you'd like. It's not LESS, it's RANDOM. And personally I'm inclined to not accuse devs of lying when they have no reason to.

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Ever thought that it might be specific Crew Skills that are having issues. Just because one Crew Skill is not broken does not mean that another is working.

 

My RE on Armortech seems to have gone down (100 RE's on blues for no purples, when previously it saw less than 20). That could be just that I have leveled up and higher items are harder to RE. The fact is though that if on average you need to RE something 100 times to get something then the system is broken. The cost of the item you are making (which is not any better than you can buy with commendations) will be too high for anyone to purchase.

 

I see lots of posts on this issue and no-one actually states the crew skill they are actually using.

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Ever thought that it might be specific Crew Skills that are having issues. Just because one Crew Skill is not broken does not mean that another is working.

 

My RE on Armortech seems to have gone down (100 RE's on blues for no purples, when previously it saw less than 20). That could be just that I have leveled up and higher items are harder to RE. The fact is though that if on average you need to RE something 100 times to get something then the system is broken. The cost of the item you are making (which is not any better than you can buy with commendations) will be too high for anyone to purchase.

 

I see lots of posts on this issue and no-one actually states the crew skill they are actually using.

 

I mostly do Biochem. The person that I play with all the time has the other three. He has had no significant change and has had quite a few purple schems since the patch. Other people in-game that I talk to have not claimed to have sudden terrible luck since the patch and I have seen many tells with "look at this neat purple schem I just got".

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"You already know that Schematic" needs to go.

 

And we need some clarification on how/if we can improve our odds. Doing everything you are supposed to do and then just crossing your fingers is not fun. Random chance is not "crafting". Its not like I'm a better crafter because I'm good at RNG. Its not even a scenario of time spent = rewards since you can get something your first try or your 500th.

 

The best part is I'm making stuff that nobody wants anyway haha.

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So Biochem you are not seeing an issue, that seems to be born out by other people not seeing an issue with Biochem.

 

The question is for the other crafting skills seem to be having an issue. I had no problems with REing Armortech up to lvl 40 items, which was also about the time of the patch. After that point Crits on RE disapeared. REing 100 blue lvl 45 items is very expensive for no gain.

 

Your friend with the 3 other crew skills, are they capable of REing lvl 40+ items (what crew skills are they, this could be specific to just a couple of crew skills) and does he have a big issue with those items above 40.

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287 Tries for the epic tank implant (trooper, aim). This system is just bollox. Wasted over 2 million credits. This item will be my downfall cause its something personal now. Done all these mission and effort. And I want it whatever the costs but!

When I hit 400 tries Ill quit the game in a rage mode and I'm never gonna touch anything from EA again

 

They really should give your more change getting a proc after 100 tries or something. This uberwaste creditsink stinks and is a gamebreaker as it is now. Its very frustrating and I spoke to too many people who felt the same frustration as I do :mad:

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You guys are just giving into what BioWare wants: You to waste your time

 

This game is based on time sinks, it's a single player game setup like a bunch of NWN2 servers. If this game didn't make you spend 70% of your time in cutscenes, putting around on your scooter-bike, or going between 7 different maps to move from one planet to another... There would be half as many people here because they would have 4 50's by now and not have the will to putt through the same 90% of the content over again. They say 170 hours of content? well it's about 50 hours of actual play time.

 

The RNG is a great system, when there are ways to ensure you won't spend too much time for one goal. I liked the idea about tokens, but I feel after 20 RE's you should get a new schematic, getting it earlier is just a fun perk.

 

Any crafting system is crap compared to SWG, the ability to build your items how you want and experiment for certain stats ultimately ending up with a good blueprint is Awesome, Instead of having 30 level 48 enhancements, you now have one, and players add on the stats they want. But that removes yet another moneysink and a HUGE time sink to slow down progression, so it's never going to happen.

 

As it stands now, it takes longer for a single person to craft all of the best gear they can, JUST FOR THEM SELVES, than it does to go get the lvl 56 gear, on average(there's always the lucky SOB).

 

The idea of using your crew for crafting is a good idea, it's much better than parking it at a crafting bench. Instead of a time sink, you now have a money sink.

 

The one thing this game does well is disguising the 4 missions that you do over and over with a new enemies. But they make all of their time/money sinks so glaringly obvious.

 

I would welcome an infestation of diminishing returns over all of the sinks that plague this game.

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The Reverse Engineering System BW currently has needs a lot of improvement.

 

I am a 400 Synthweaver and I have been 50 for weeks now. From my personal experience, I have been trying to Achieve a purple belt for my husband's marauder and a purple (superior) glove for my Sorc Corrupter.

 

I am well aware of how RE ing works. I have been able to get the first REs (Prefixes we wanted) on both items in about 40 tries for the gloves (Overkill for Power) and 15-20 on the belt (Critical for crit). But here is the rub, ever since then I have been trying for both every day with upsetting results.

 

I am aware of the 5 possible schematic procs on these items for their second tier. So far I have REed about 70 EPIC gloves and 120 blue belts. I am working off the WP and power glove so I am shooting for the alacrity schematic and I am working off the strength crit belt so I am shooting for the surge schematic. I don't even understand why some of the 5 (tier 2 RE) options exist on certain items. I have procced the accuracy schematic for the gloves, as well as the presence and shield rating for the belt. Now all I get is "You already know that schematic" if I get anything at all. This is very frustrating for crafters to say the least. Especially if you take into account how many crew missions I have had to send my companions on to supply this madness.

 

At this point, I have sank millions of credits into this. I realize RNG is R for Random, however; as a customer I would like to suggest that BW at least consider the following:

 

When you discover one of the 3 paths for the first tier of REing or one of the 5 paths for the second tier of REing; please remove it from the pool of possible schematics to discover for future REs. REing is grueling enough on its own, without making the one successful hit you get after loads of wasted credits, time and items, be one you have already hit which is useless for you.

 

Right now, the many epic schematics I have acquired from HM FPs and OPs, mostly (about 90%) produce BoP items. Not only can I not trade or sell these items which weren't easy to acquire schematics for but I also need further BoP components to craft them (most, more than one: alloy and bolt) which come from HMs and OPs. Take into account that most people will want their item to be the best they can make, and will want a critical craft... good grief, that is a lot of HMs, materials, credits and time down the drain.

 

In conclusion, Synthweaving is at best a money and time sink which will only provide you with a super duper rare reward if you get really lucky and have a ton of time, credits and patience on your hands. REing might be a balance system BW intended to be used for other crew skills perhaps but for Synthweaving it is absurd to the power of absurd and needs to be improved upon.

 

TL;DR REing needs improvements; mainly that discovered schematics should be taken out of the future discovery pool. Synthweaving needs their patterns made BoE and needs overall improvements.

 

Thank you Bioware for your attention to this matter.

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Really? You know because YOUR proc rates went down dramatically? YOU, dear sir, are not the center of the universe in case you were not aware. My proc rates not only have not gone down, they have gone up. Perhaps because of my companion being more affectionate, more likely just because that's how random works. Stop accusing the devs of lying because you can't understand the word random.

 

Yes, and the devs are lying.

 

Got a level 49 purple schem out of less than 10 RE's total of the critical blue (I believe it was more like 7 but I don't keep exact track the way that some people claim to).

 

Really? You know because YOUR proc went out of less than 10? YOU, dear sir, are not the center of the universe in case you were not aware. Just thought I'd let you know that.

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Yes, and the devs are lying.

 

 

 

Really? You know because YOUR proc went out of less than 10? YOU, dear sir, are not the center of the universe in case you were not aware. Just thought I'd let you know that.

 

The burden of proof lies squarely on YOUR shoulders. You're the one saying that there's a huge conspiracy and the devs are outright lying about it. All you seem to have is your own personal anecdotal evidence. I offered up the same to counteract it (feel free to peruse my other posts for other very recent examples). I, on the other hand, have nothing to prove as I'm not the one offering up conspiracy theories.

 

None of my friends in-game have been "QQ'ing" about the RE rate dropping either, and I have plenty of purple things made recently by them to know that high-level purple schems have been popping all over the place and in all the professions.

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I wont complain to much as I had great success early in the game with re'ing, but that being said results have been absolutely zero for an entire week straight now. I use Jaessa's +5 synthweaving critical constantly to make epic mastercraft belts that are not cheap to produce. I've made one mastercraft in twenty plus crafts. No one buys the regular versions because they would rather have the mastercraft. Well guess what if mastercraft is going to be this difficult to get the price is going way up. Like 250k minimum if things dont turn around soon.

 

 

I also mass produce blue belts in an effort to learn new artifact recipes. Last night alone I made 20 Overkill Hardened Flex Belt, none of them re'd into anything at all. That was just last night, I have burned about 40 of these belts so far and gotten nothing for my effort, not even a crappy mixed stat version.

 

I am in the same boat with artifrice, I can't re-engineer anything now that I am lvl 50. even if I reverse engineer 20 blues zip, nada, nothing!

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I liked this system at first. It felt like I was making progress. Now it feels like I am banging my head against a wall.

 

I believe they dropped the rate of the schematic upgrades a LOT. I used to get a good return for my time, money and resources spent. Now I get nothing. (think i am exaggerating? i'm not) I hardly get greens to blues anymore. Blues to purples are non-existent. I've tried all the things suggested. I've used high affection companions, stood by crafting stations, leveled up as many lower recipes (pre-nerf) instead of just grinding points and focusing on the high-end and it's terrible no matter what I do! I agree that they shouldn't just hand out blues/purples on the first try but these rates are just stupid. I love crafting in MMOs and don't mind a grind. At least in other games I can feel I'm making some sort of progress. In this one it's starting to feel like a huge waste of time.

 

They did change these rates. It's not my imagination or bad luck. It's just plain stupid.

Edited by ZapperWeisman
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I dislike crafting. Never wanted to do it. Happy to let all of you craft while I kill mobs for bounty and buy your stuff... however, on my server Thana whatever her name is ... nothing is ever for sale on the non-GTN. So I am forced to craft for my own needs.

 

Everything was fine ... despite the interminably long crew mission times (i.e. 50 minutes for 2 to 4 tier 5 metals), but then I got to the point where I needed to reverse engineer tier 5 greens for blues to use myself (i'm not interested in purples at all). BAM! Nothing. Item after item produced and nothing. Despite smooth sailing, I hit this brick wall with no information or indication about why.

 

This is my issue, give the player some indication of his or her chances... like "No way in hell", "Very very unlikely", "Remote but possible", whatever you like in terms of some system. BUT FFS PROVIDE SOME INDICATION OF LIKELIHOOD.

 

For example, as a person, I know beyond a shadow of doubt that if I go outside and take apart my car, I'm not going to figure out how to improve fuel efficiency... but someone might. The point is I know that car guy isn't me. My character should realize, given the circumstances, he has no hope of success also... or at least incredibly remote chance of success... 1/20 or 1/50 is incredibly remote given the scarcity of resources and lack of availability of material on the non-GTN.

 

p.s. all you folks talking about "random" ... you need to go back to school guys. It's not about "random" it's about probability. Go look it up.

Edited by EvilThug
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Here's a little food for thought.

 

300-400 total biorestorative armor crafts just to RE blue versions for Mako to wear. This was over the course of about two weeks since I switched to armormech. I've received only one blue schematic for each piece except for the head which on its own constitutes 100 of those 300-400 total crafts. Now, I could continue to spend time and spend credits trying to RE better versions, or I can just use my companions to run underworld trading, stockpile mandalorian iron for rakata pieces, and pick up tionese drops that no one wants left and right to outfit my companions with better equipment, at a comparatively faster rate.

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im lvl 400 in artifice and i have RE'd reslove hilt 22 organge leathal crystal and enchancement 22 (forgot its name) and took roughly 5-10 tries to advance to green to blue and another 10-13 tries to go from blue to purple. except for the reslove hilt it took me 35-40 tries to get from blue to purple. these are the highest lvl for there respective catagories it is possible to get high lvl purples you just need patience. Edited by Goulah
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If there is a 1% chance of getting the schematic you want on each trial, there is a 93.4% chance of getting the schematic within 270 trials.

 

There is a 99.9% chance of getting the schematic within 700 trials. This is all assuming a 1% success rate for getting that schematic. It could be higher (or hell maybe even lower). I spent hours yesterday trying to RE a set of blue bracers to Redoubt, then I got the Veracity prefix on the 2nd attempt at REing the redoubt version.

 

Random numbers are random (not saying its a good design choice though).

Edited by westbro
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Wow I must be a lucky Mara then. I RE'd the green lvl49 might Implant about 5 times, got the critical one, then did that about 5 times and got the fervour crit might implant. So i made two and one was mastercraft hehe. Bad luck bro, I'll make ya one ;)
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I'll say it once and I'll say it a thousand times,

 

Something that various other games have that this one is missing is the "Anti-Frustration" coding.

 

Yes I know the premise of crafting is to create a server where someone "may" have a recipe or schematic that someone else may not have, creating a competitive market, but in reality if I have that rare item I doubt I'm going to spend all day on crafting it when I "could" be playing. Even if I do, I'll find better as a drop or as end level gear eventually, so crafting is only a time or money sink.

 

So while working as intended, it's very frustrating to those who take out time to keep themselves entertained by it. And while in "theory" it makes sense, if your frustrate players like this the only thing they are going to do is make one for themselves (on average), maybe one for their friends/guildee's, but never again because of how irritated they got after finally getting it.

 

It's like how when I used to play Wow and I used to camp "weeks" just to get a rare spawn. One day I woke up and realized I wasn't actually playing the game because all I did was sit and stare at the screen, often flying over and over again in a crazy pattern in a single zone, all while just "hoping" to finally catch whatever creature I was there for.

 

Then I packed up shop, deleted my stuff, and quit the entire game cold turkey because that was just crazy.

 

Crafting in this game is quickly becoming Wow's rare creature hunt for Hunters. :rolleyes:

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