Sniper Concerns, the Future of the Class.

[Tylerlee]

Let me preface this with a little about my experience in SWTOR so far. I am a sniper, I played Sniper throught the few beta weekends that i was invited to attend. I have been level 50 for around 4-5 weeks now and have been PvPing for alot of the time i am online. I am currently Rank 63 with a few Battlemaster pieces and rest Champion.

 

The problem i am seeing as i and others are progressing through the PvP aspect of this game, is the lack of Tech Attacks in the Snipers arsenal. Every single one of our fundamental Sniper attacks are classified as range attacks and as such are subject to both rolls when it comes to calculating hit/damage numbers.

 

If anyone pays close attention to the streaming scene you will know of Ed Park aka Taugrim, a very knowledgable player of many MMOs who has a very informative blog. His blog concerns mostly the Bounty Hunter class, but the post i am highlighting here, http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/ , is what opened my eyes to the problems we may face in the future.

 

I will highlight the main portion that pertains to my thoughts in this thread.

 

Which Attack Types are Defensible and Shieldable

 

There are 4 attack types: Force, Melee, Ranged, and Tech.

 

The attack types should not be confused with the 4 damage types: Elemental, Energy, Internal, and Kinetic.

 

Melee and Ranged attacks are Defensible and Shieldable, whereas Force and Tech attacks are not. This is consistent with other games such as WoW and RIFT, where “spell” attacks are not dodgeable / parryable and not blockable.

 

and

 

First is a hit roll, accuracy versus defense, and if the attacker misses then no damage occurs. If the attacker rolled poorly enough to miss even discounting the target’s defense then a “Miss” result occurs. If he misses because of the defense then the result varies based on the attack type, the cover state of the target, and the target’s equipped weapons. All the possible results – Dodge, Parry, Deflect, Resist, Cover – are mathematically the same, but they can trigger different effects and are visualized in different ways.

 

If the attacker hits, then a second roll is made with the crit chance of the attacker versus the shield chance of the target. If a Crit or a Shield occurs then the damage is adjusted up or down (based on Surge/Absorb), and then it goes through to the armor and damage resistance. A critical can never be shielded, and an attacker with a high enough crit chance can push the target’s shield chance off the table. It shouldn’t be possible to get your passive crit chance high enough to start pushing off the target’s shield chance, but there are short-duration buffs that push these chances high enough to come into conflict.

 

Accuracy Rating – (Where we are falling short) Increases the chance that any of your attacks will hit the target. Any accuracy over 100 percent will reduce the targets defense.

 

 

Lets get down to some numbers. In terms of Accuracy the 3 tiers of Armor sets give as follows

 

In full Centurion a Sniper will sit at: 101.43%

 

In full Champion a Sniper will sit at: 100.63%

 

In full Battlemaster gear i will be at: 101%

 

Accuracy is a stat much like any other and is subject to diminishing returns. We see this as we put on piece by piece increasing our accuracy by smaller and smaller amounts.

 

Centurion Set:

 

40/40/40/40/40/40/40/40

 

93 + (40x8=320) = 101.43% (8.43% Accuracy Gain)

 

(I do not have the pieces to equip anymore so i cannot give the numbers for diminishing returns.)

 

Champion Set:

 

48/48/48/48/48

 

93 + (48x6=288) = 100.63% (7.63% Accuracy Gain)

 

93 + (48) = 94.72 = 1.72 gain.

94.72 + (48) = 96.35 = 1.65 (-0.13)

96.35 + (48) = 97.88 = 1.53 (-0.12)

97.88 + (48) = 99.32 = 1.42 (-0.11)

99.32 + (48) 100.63 = 1.31 (-0.11)

 

BattleMaster Set:

 

51/51/51/51/51/51

 

93 + (51x6=306) = ?? ~8% Accuracy Gain

 

93 + (51) = 94.83 = 1.83 gain.

94.83 + (51) = 96.54 = 1.71 (-0.12)

 

I only have 2 BM items with Accuracy so i cannot complete the fall off.

 

Judging from the numbers, Bioware only wants our Accuracy to be around 100%.

 

 

 

What does this mean to our damage and what does it mean for future scaling down the road? Let's take a look at our worst nightmare, a Tank....We are the single worst AC to do damage to a tank, due to every single one of our SNIPER abilities using a Ranged Attack mechanic, we are one of only 2 classess (Marauder Carnage Spec) that has to go through a 2 roll system to produce our damage on every single target.

 

Lets talk about Defense Rating and how that will affect us.

 

Defense Rating is what every one of our abilities is blocked by. This is where you see all the Deflect/Miss/Cover, this can be capped at 30% with diminishing returns. this is taken from the Sith Assassin Tank post.

 

At level 50, stats are broken down in the following ways

Defense - Gives total Avoidance. Capped at 30%. Takes 27.5 rating to increase 1%.*

Shield - Chance of "blocking" a hit. Capped at 50%. Takes 16 rating to increase 1%.*

Absorb - Increases amount blocked. Capped at 50%. Takes 9 rating to increase 1%.*

 

*Before diminishing returns.

 

 

Powertech for example.

 

The Centurion set for the Powertech has 28/28/28/28/23 a total of :135 on its pieces that is an added 5% (10% total) added to our miss table.

 

The Champion set has 27/34/27/29/29/34/34/34 a total of :248 on its pieces, that is an added 9% (14%) to our miss table.

 

The Battlemaster set has 29/31/31/37/37/31/37/37 a total of :270 on its pieces, thats an added 10% (15%) to our miss table.

 

 

 

If gear is going to progress at its current state then aour Accuracy will stay the same, while Tanks Defense Rating continues to climb. Please bear in mind this has not taken into account Absorption Rating, Shield Chance, Bubbles, Talents, Skill Activations, Cooldowns, Expertise, Taunts etc....

 

If you are reading this like i am reading it then i can only see our damage to tanks in particular going down and down, due to the fact that our Attacks use Ranged Damage as our Attack modifier, instead of Tech Damage. I for one would not mind seeing lower numbers (due to absorb/armour ratings) than seeing fully resisted completely wasted skills due to defence chance.

 

Bioware, please give us our Tech Damage abilities, and if not, please enlighten us as to why were the stuck with Ranged Damage modifier.

 

Thank you.

 

Edit: I judging from the replies so far alot of people seem to think that changing our Dmg Type would be a bad thing.

 

It wouldn't.

 

For every class in the game other than tanks, nothing would change, as your Defence Rating is not high enough to make a difference, the only exception to this would be Knights/Warriors with the Saber Ward, which could easily be tweaked to accommodate Marksmen using Tech Damage.

 

Let me say it again, Only Marksman Sniper and Carnage Spec Marauders suffer from this every other class is based on a 1 roll system. Why are we singled out and is it intentional?

Edited January 27, 2012 by Tylerlee

[Carbonated]

And whats your proposal to tank classes then? I mean you want to remove them from the game basically.

[Karaokelove]

Wow Tylerlee, very informative post! Thanks for your hard work!

[Jaxtaro]

And whats your proposal to tank classes then? I mean you want to remove them from the game basically.

 

It's not sacrelidge for a tank to lose in PvP, nor is it indication if there actually IS a fair fight, that they need to be "removed from the game". Having weaknesses isn't a big deal. No one knows this better than pvp MM snipers.

 

Geared tanks have formiddable offense along with their insane defense, the test should be "Is your offense as lousy against my defense as mine is against yours, along with "is your ability to catch me stacked favorably with my ability to get away?"

 

Class against class, spec against spec, no one when using this formula fares worse than the sniper/gunslinger in this game.

 

Not getting free kills on snipers wouldn't be the end of the world.

[Tibbel]

I don't want comment about our capacity to be competitive in PvP since I don't think there's really a great way to measure that (at least yet), but I just want to pipe in about the mechanical things you mentioned.

 

On our character sheet, our Ranged Accuracy applies to basic ranged attacks, which includes the following abilities:

1. Rifle Shot

All other abilities are considered "special attacks" and are subject to our Tech Accuracy. This is independent of attack type (ranged or tech).

 

 

 

To calculate a level 50 character's special attack hit chance given accuracy rating, use this formula:

Accuracy% = 100% + 30% * [ 1 - ( 29 / 30 )^( AccuracyRating / 27.5 ) ]

Then subtract defense chance, which scales at the same rate but starts with a different base chance:

Defense% = 5% + 30% * [ 1 - ( 29 / 30 )^( DefenseRating / 27.5 ) ]

 

For more discussions and analyses of game mechanics, check out the SithWarrior.com forums.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Tibbel

[Carbonated]

It's not sacrelidge for a tank to lose in PvP, nor is it indication if there actually IS a fair fight, that they need to be "removed from the game". Having weaknesses isn't a big deal. No one knows this better than pvp MM snipers.

 

Geared tanks have formiddable offense along with their insane defense, the test should be "Is your offense as lousy against my defense as mine is against yours, along with "is your ability to catch me stacked favorably with my ability to get away?"

 

Class against class, spec against spec, no one when using this formula fares worse than the sniper/gunslinger in this game.

 

Not getting free kills on snipers wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

I havent had a problem with tank classes as leathality.

[Jaxtaro]

I havent had a problem with tank classes as leathality.

 

And yet they've managed to stay in game and not forced into complete obscurity.

 

You Lethality cultists are a funny breed, you can't seem to grasp such a simple concept that there's a LOT of people out there who chose a sniper to play.... you know, a sniper, and not a chemical weapons agent who happens to be named "sniper". You also can't seem to comprehend such a simple premise that others who want to play MM want to PvP as well.

 

I realize it's a lethality cult mantra that you feel you should gain special power and glory and recognition for your "wise" choice of turning your back on sniping to play a sniveling poisonchucker, because it happens to be the one non-broken spec in PvP, so here...

 

ALL HAIL MEMBERS OF THE LETHALITY CULT... YOUR WISDOM KNOWS NO BOUNDS.

 

Now can you please leave and let those who play specs that are actually having issues have a discussion? Nothing makes me more sick to my stomach lately than lethality cultists who feel the need to first take ridiculous potshots, trying to imply that if MM damage wasn't subject to every single kind of defense, that the concept of tanking in MMO's worldwide would come to a complete halt, then going "However, I as lethality dispatch them with ease", proving your first point wrong, that tanks in PvP can die, and their egos can manage, yet infecting the thread with your obnoxiousness about how all snipers need to do is to turn into Chemical Ali to experience PvP without fairly major frustrations.

[Cavebaby]

And whats your proposal to tank classes then? I mean you want to remove them from the game basically.

 

Well that's uncalled for. I don't think this thread needs to head the way of so many before it. The OP obviously did a fantastic amount of research and I for one found it fascinating. The point of the thread was fairly obvious in that many ranged skills need to be switched to tech for snipers to remain viable. I didn't feel that it was an attack on tanks in any way.

 

It's refreshing to read, and I use this in no derogatory way, a complaint based on math and research rather than losing a warzone and feeling the need to whine to fellow snipers. Thanks for this post and keep up the good work.

[Carbonated]

And yet they've managed to stay in game and not forced into complete obscurity.

 

You Lethality cultists are a funny breed, you can't seem to grasp such a simple concept that there's a LOT of people out there who chose a sniper to play.... you know, a sniper, and not a chemical weapons agent who happens to be named "sniper". You also can't seem to comprehend such a simple premise that others who want to play MM want to PvP as well.

 

I realize it's a lethality cult mantra that you feel you should gain special power and glory and recognition for your "wise" choice of turning your back on sniping to play a sniveling poisonchucker, because it happens to be the one non-broken spec in PvP, so here...

 

ALL HAIL MEMBERS OF THE LETHALITY CULT... YOUR WISDOM KNOWS NO BOUNDS.

 

Now can you please leave and let those who play specs that are actually having issues have a discussion? Nothing makes me more sick to my stomach lately than lethality cultists who feel the need to first take ridiculous potshots, trying to imply that if MM damage wasn't subject to every single kind of defense, that the concept of tanking in MMO's worldwide would come to a complete halt, then going "However, I as lethality dispatch them with ease", proving your first point wrong, that tanks in PvP can die, and their egos can manage, yet infecting the thread with your obnoxiousness about how all snipers need to do is to turn into Chemical Ali to experience PvP without fairly major frustrations.

 

yeah but you say that bounty hunter power techs have uber dps. I assume you mean in tank spec right, which is incorrect. so your comparing only 1 spec vs 1 spec, then basing it off that, making any argument flawed and definately not worth altering a class. Why not also change merc stuff like power shot and unload then? Your not forced to attack Powertechs. Your also not forced to go MM.

 

I've still killed tanks with MM. I dont know what your doing wrong, I'm guessing it has something to do trying to 1v1 people but.

[Jaxtaro]

yeah but you say that bounty hunter power techs have uber dps. I assume you mean in tank spec right, which is incorrect. so your comparing only 1 spec vs 1 spec, then basing it off that, making any argument flawed and definately not worth altering a class. Why not also change merc stuff like power shot and unload then? Your not forced to attack Powertechs. Your also not forced to go MM.

 

I've still killed tanks with MM. I dont know what your doing wrong, I'm guessing it has something to do trying to 1v1 people but.

 

When precisely did I say that bounty hunter powertechs have uber DPS? Can you please find me a quote which says this?

 

Making up arguments on behalf of someone else, then proceeding to tear those arguments down is what is called a "Straw Man". Please stop doing this, it's unworthy of a rational discussion.

 

What's more, no one ever claimed we were forced to play MM, what I've said, time and time again is that MM is the only spec which plays like the description of the AC, which is as a sniper. Just because one chooses it or prefers the playstyle doesn't make it unworthy of being competitive, or on par with the other specs. Lethality doesn't deserve to be higher damage and more survivable than MM, it just accidentally happenned to turn out that way. Hopefully when things get fixed, it'll be a choice based on what you should be making choices on, which is not "only one spec is viable" and based more on playstyle.

 

Incidentally, you having killed tanks with MM is neither impressive, nor a valid argument of any kind. Your little anecdotes are completely meaningless in terms of overall balance discussions, because they're nothing but cute stories. There's no controlled environment, there's no numerical testing of any kind whatsoever, no verification that any tank that you killed wasn't eating a sloppy joe in one hand and playing with the other, that his keys for his defensive skills were clogged with ground beef or not, or that the tank was doing anything special, or even if you were actually 1v1 with them, or whether you just happenned to get an opportunistic killshot, or got lucky, or one of a million potential variables. Basically all we have is some guy who doesn't argue very well who says that he killed someone as MM... AWESOME... I KILLED SOMEONE TOO AS MM... it still doesn't negate the fact that the spec needs some serious work,it just means that one day you killed a tank as MM... congratulations.

[Carbonated]

When precisely did I say that bounty hunter powertechs have uber DPS? Can you please find me a quote which says this?

 

 

Geared tanks have formiddable offense along with their insane defense, the test should be "Is your offense as lousy against my defense as mine is against yours, along with "is your ability to catch me stacked favorably with my ability to get away?"

 

Tanks dont win against everything. Theres specs you can go, you have the option to. But you want to overpower the Marksman tree just because you cant deal with Tanks doing tanky things.

 

All I get from your post's is 2 things, Anyone not currently your spec shouldnt be allowed to have an opinion and classes that wear defensive gear and heavy armor shouldnt be allowed to use it.

 

As MM, you still have skills that are already not physical shots. You have an armor debuff and stuns etc.

 

MMo's are a cricle of life its not based on 1v1 pvp. it never will be. You have other classes and specs that can handle tanks better then you, work with them. Changing shots to tech damage just so you can handle tanks will make the class overly stupid vs non tanks. not to mention any point of being a tank worthless.

[Melchiora]

I don't want comment about our capacity to be competitive in PvP since I don't think there's really a great way to measure that (at least yet), but I just want to pipe in about the mechanical things you mentioned.

 

On our character sheet, our Ranged Accuracy applies to basic ranged attacks, which includes the following abilities:

1. Rifle Shot

All other abilities are considered "special attacks" and are subject to our Tech Accuracy. This is independent of attack type (ranged or tech).

 

 

 

To calculate a level 50 character's special attack hit chance given accuracy rating, use this formula:

Accuracy% = 100% + 30% * [ 1 - ( 29 / 30 )^( AccuracyRating / 27.5 ) ]

Then subtract defense chance, which scales at the same rate but starts with a different base chance:

Defense% = 5% + 30% * [ 1 - ( 29 / 30 )^( DefenseRating / 27.5 ) ]

 

For more discussions and analyses of game mechanics, check out the SithWarrior.com forums.

 

I'm not sure that's correct. I have missed with snipe against a basic enemy when my basic accuracy was below 100% (not parry, not dodge, miss).

 

My understanding is that the basic accuracy applies to anything that does 'weapon' damage. So snipe does xxxx weapon damage. Also, all the abilities that do weapon damage show up as white numbers.

 

Kinetic, energy, elemental, and internal are all types of damage for tech or force attacks. These show up as yellow numbers.

 

Attacks we have that do weapon type damage:

 

Snipe

Ambush

Rifle Shot

Series of Shots

Followthrough

Takedown

 

Tech:

Orbital Strike

Explosive Probe

Plasma Probe

Interrogation Probe

Frag grenade

Various lethality spec stuff

 

 

Now the thing is, marksman? Pretty much only uses the stuff that's weapon damage, with some orb. strike and exp. probe possibly thrown in (and frag grenade maybe). Thus, marksman gets hurt HARD by armor and shields. Engineering gets hit less so, but still a fair amount, as the damage seems to be decently split. I have not tried lethality in pve or pvp to know what abilities it actually uses.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Melchiora

[Tylerlee]

And whats your proposal to tank classes then? I mean you want to remove them from the game basically.

 

Nope, i simply want to do damage to them, like every other single class with Tech/Force mechanics do damage to them.

[Carbonated]

Nope, i simply want to do damage to them, like every other single class with Tech/Force mechanics do damage to them.

 

But you can its just reduced by their class specialities. See the post above for tech attacks, They also work for marksman may not be the best but they do help you.

 

Also include Shatter shot in it, to you know reduce armor then your complaints reduced by 20% works well for me when I'm running as MM.

[Tylerlee]

But you can its just reduced by their class specialities. See the post above for tech attacks, They also work for marksman may not be the best but they do help you.

 

Also include Shatter shot in it, to you know reduce armor then your complaints reduced by 20% works well for me when I'm running as MM.

 

The problem isn't the damage reduction, its the complete damage negation. Shatter Shot, even Leg Shot, can be dodged/parried/deflected as it is a Ranged Attack. Type.

 

I don't think you understand the problem the Marksman faces, using our 3 weakest attacks is not going to cut it once Defence Rating is nearing cap.

 

Shatter Shot does nothing to lower Defence Rating as Armour has nothing to do with Defence Rating. Shatter Shot only increases the damage of the shots that actually get through the first roll.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Tylerlee

[Carbonated]

I don't think you understand the problem the Marksman faces, using our 3 weakest attacks is not going to cut it once Defence Rating is nearing cap.

 

Shatter Shot does nothing to lower Defence Rating as Armour has nothing to do with Defence Rating. Shatter Shot only increases the damage of the shots that actually get through the first roll.

 

So what your saying is someone thats geared never gets hit then, which is totally wrong.

 

You can also use Accuracy which reduces this chance.

[Tylerlee]

So what your saying is someone thats geared never gets hit then, which is totally wrong.

 

You can also use Accuracy which reduces this chance.

 

I never said that, this post is to bring light on what I think, will be the single major issue progressing forward as a Marksman Sniper in competitive PvP. I am saying, as Tanks close to the Defence Cap (30%) 20% of our shots, will not see any damage. Of the shots that do get through, they will see a 50-70% damage reduction as Armour and Absorb Rating is taken into consideration. Add to that Guard and Taunt and i think you can do the math.

 

Accuracy has a soft cap of 100%, you will never see a Sniper with 130% Accuracy, he would have to sacrifice too much.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Tylerlee

[Auxili]

I never said that, this post is to bring light on what I think, will be the single major issue progressing forward as a Marksman Sniper in competitive PvP. I am saying, as Tanks close to the Defence Cap (30%) 20% of our shots, will not see any damage. Of the shots that do get through, they will see a 50-70% damage reduction as Armour and Absorb Rating is taken into consideration. Add to that Guard and Taunt and i think you can do the math.

 

Accuracy has a soft cap of 100%, you will never see a Sniper with 130% Accuracy, he would have to sacrifice too much.

 

This.

 

It's so gamebreaking that our leg shot can MISS a target so freaking easily and often. It breaks this class to pieces.

Is bioware aware of this?

[Carbonated]

cap for acc is 110%, Works well for me in pvp. You should try it.

 

Shield absorb as stated in your article you linked that basically pop your trinket you will ignore any chance of him shielding.

 

leaves only armor, shatter shot reduces it by 20%.

 

 

Basically you dismiss everything based on 1 class. Basically you should either learn to adapt or reroll and see that the grass is not greener on the other side, rather then request a buff that will over power the class too much.

 

I'm done arguing/discussing it because you just have some sort of bad attitude in this instance.

[Auxili]

cap for acc is 110%, Works well for me in pvp. You should try it.

 

Shield absorb as stated in your article you linked that basically pop your trinket you will ignore any chance of him shielding.

 

leaves only armor, shatter shot reduces it by 20%.

 

 

Basically you dismiss everything based on 1 class. Basically you should either learn to adapt or reroll and see that the grass is not greener on the other side, rather then request a buff that will over power the class too much.

 

I'm done arguing/discussing it because you just have some sort of bad attitude in this instance.

 

This does not at all discuss how players can parry/shield your attacks, up to 20-30% of the time if tank specced. This includes things like leg shot as they're classified as ranged attacks, not tech.

 

This is about more than armor negation. It's about missing and wasting your energy on dodged attacks.

[Tylerlee]

cap for acc is 110%, Works well for me in pvp. You should try it.

 

Shield absorb as stated in your article you linked that basically pop your trinket you will ignore any chance of him shielding.

 

leaves only armor, shatter shot reduces it by 20%.

 

 

Basically you dismiss everything based on 1 class. Basically you should either learn to adapt or reroll and see that the grass is not greener on the other side, rather then request a buff that will over power the class too much.

 

I'm done arguing/discussing it because you just have some sort of bad attitude in this instance.

 

And what are you going to do when Tanks have 30% Defence Rating? instead of the 8-10% they have now in mixed PvP gear that is not focussed on Def Rating (only 5 or 6 of 12 slots have Defense Rating)

 

This post is not about the current situation, stop reading it as a whine that I can't kill a Tank. This is about where our class is headed, and the pitfalls that lay before it.

 

You are by your own admission a Lethality Sniper and as such 90% of your main abilities are Tech Damage and not Ranged Damage.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Tylerlee

[Carbonated]

nah this is about someone who doesnt understand that a class has defence instead of crit power or surge and it actually does something.

 

and his 2nd point of he solos the entire game so no class should have and advantage and every attack should be tech

 

He mentioned that shields absorb I only referred back to his article because you can get around it, like like the defence.

 

Problem is baddies never want to deal with having a class that isnt as weak as everyone else is against them so they cry for buffs.

 

You can spec other things of course this got shot down as a valid reason because the class revolved around him and that he wants to play MM so it should be buffed.

 

All the skill you mention arent tech for any of the specs so if what you said was the problem he wouldnt have a problem with someone mentioning leathality.

[Carbonated]

And what are you going to do when Tanks have 30% Defence Rating? instead of the 8-10% they have now in mixed PvP gear that is not focussed on Def Rating (only 5 or 6 of 12 slots have Defense Rating)

 

This post is not about the current situation, stop reading it as a whine that I can't kill a Tank. This is about where our class is headed, and the pitfalls that lay before it.

 

Do what I do now, Avoid being rambo and work with your group wether it be a pug or organised.

 

Kite there tanks to your team. If they have the ball chances are theres your team and there team following, so what you do right is throw a flash bang at him, kill the healers and stuff around while your SI kill tank, SI dont care what type of armor you have.

 

So you want to be rambo, and 1v1 every thing then the issue is actually L2p.

 

If you dont want to stack accuracy stack surge and power get the 25% chance for corrosive dart to tick 2 times, get corrosive grenade over rapid shots dot him and do what you can.

[Tylerlee]

so what you do right is throw a flash bang at him

 

Flash Bang fill 99% resolve and breaks on dmg, a poor choice, can be trinketed (remove cc) can be cleansed, only other option is Leg Shot, which is subject to Defence Rolls..GG.

 

nah this is about someone who doesnt understand that a class has defence instead of crit power or surge and it actually does something.

 

 

Dude, just stop..please..

 

This ISNT about people having defenses...

 

It is about Marksman Snipers having to go through 2 Defences when everyone else has to go through 1.

 

A tanks main dmg reduction should come from Armour and Absorption/Shielding this is what happens for 99% of the classes (even Lethality Sniper) the 1% (Marksmen) is the only one that suffers.

 

I want to know why, is that so bad?

 

Good job on making something meant to be informative into a trollfest that should probably get deleted, well played sir.

 

This community.....

Edited January 27, 2012 by Tylerlee

[Carbonated]

Dude, just stop..please..

 

This ISNT about people having defenses...

 

It is about Marksman Snipers having to go through 2 Defences when everyone else has to go through 1.

 

A tanks main dmg reduction should come from Armour and Absorption/Shielding this is what happens for 99% of the classes (even Lethality Sniper) the 1% (Marksmen) is the only one that suffers.

 

I want to know why, is that so bad?

 

Good job on making something meant to be informative into a trollfest that should probably get deleted, well played sir.

 

This community.....

 

so now your saying carnage and assassins dont go through these defences...ok NP. Totally true.