Leave space combat alone!

[gregordunbar]

Are you not seeing the Origin of WOW, which started as a ground based RTS?

Hello: Warcraft...Orks and Humans, then mutated into WOW.

Aerial/Space/Flight was never part of that.

 

Warcraft 2 did have flyers you could train. Alliance had people riding them, Orcs had unmounted dragons.

 

You lose...again cause the lore was there.

[MerleCorey]

after page 5 and a full day of work ...

tl:dr....

 

But! I'm very much for an improved focus on space combat and the fly, travel, explore missions concept for developers to spend more quality time on.

 

As it is... I sincerely hope there will be more 'on the rail missions' with each and every headline patch/program update/or if it must be, expansion pack (too long a wait by the by...). For gawd sakes, the ride is fun but way too limited other than as a we'll toss it out and see if the game gets a couple of subscriptions... then spend some time on it... maybe....

 

Having said that: if you are looking for a mature space environment - I'm almost certain someone else has said it - EVE ONLINE. No, it's not twitch like Jump Gate, but it's certainly a place you could go to when you need a fix and the in game becomes a bit weak.

[Xumagai]

I'll tell ya one thing, the space combat in this game is the most fun minigame I've every played in an mmo. It's fun, I do it often and I enjoy doing it. I'd like to see more space missions.

 

That said, I could also picture something more along the lines of jump to light speed. STO's space combat also is fun but there it's pretty much always capital ships and the pace would just seem off for Star Wars.

 

I"m curious to see what Bioware does with space. It would be great if we could keep both.

 

I ignored your statement about it being a fun minigame we will just have to agree to disagree there. More space missions could be ok, if it wasn't still this low budget crapola. To me the space is not worth playing i do it to level alts faster if I do it at all. And yes, I have played them all and have the title and whatnot. Huge waste of time outfitting a ship that has no use after you're a "hotshot pilot". Some future info from devs would be great but we all know they aren't going to say anything so we have to just assume that it's going to continue to be lackluster and simple forever.

[gregordunbar]

Really. Logged into STO recently? it's packed. Logged into EVE? Game has on average 30k players playing it at any one time (and yes EVE IS a Niche type game where getting killed can be expensive).

 

Yes, they never topped even close to the biggest MMOs playerbase.

 

Hell, Conan is claiming 600k subs created since going free and that is almost any 2 games with sim flight combat...and thats just one game without it.

 

Would only have to take Runes of Magic playerbase to top every single sim flight combat MMO ever made at the HEIGHT of their popularity combined. Go on, combine EVEs, SWGs and...lol...STOs.

 

Runes of Magic, over 4 million players

 

You have no numbers to back you. Not one. Its all just personal opinion.

[Sprite]

"Again this is supposed to be a STAR WARS game and of which SPACE is a key element.."

 

...it's an MMO, i fail to see your logic why it needs to have a flight sim bolted on to it.

 

It doesn't NEED to have anything.

 

it's an MMO, it doesn't need to have a PvP system.

it's an MMO, it doesn't need to have a fast travel system.

it's an MMO, it doesn't need to have companions.

 

See how much fun that is?

 

I played SWG for years mainly because of the space game. It gave you character progression in the form of ship upgrades. Crafting in the form of shipwrights crafting good and reverse-engineering looted goods. Credit farming in the form of blowing things up and making money doing it. Oh, and your character gained pilot levels which gave access to better ships, better space combat techniques, etc...

 

If you don't want to play the space game, then don't. But put GOOD space content in, and lots of people will play it. I don't PvP, but I'm not screaming for Bioware to take it out or not put anything dev time into it because I know that other people enjoy that aspect of play.

 

What's so hard to understand about this?

[Xumagai]

Yes, they never topped even close to the biggest MMOs playerbase.

 

Hell, Conan is claiming 600k subs created since going free and that is almost any 2 games with sim flight combat...and thats just one game without it.

 

Would only have to take Runes of Magic playerbase to top every single sim flight combat MMO ever made at the HEIGHT of their popularity combined. Go on, combine EVEs, SWGs and...lol...STOs.

 

Runes of Magic, over 4 million players

 

You have no numbers to back you. Not one. Its all just personal opinion.

 

What are you trying to prove? I don't see a point anywhere in there? you apparently do not like STO... that much i can see

[gregordunbar]

Then supply your facts that there is no demand for flying in a fantasy game!

 

I did...lol, its the point of our discussion which you seem to not know the context of.

 

it started by someone saying most MMO players dont like flight sim combat, she said he was wrong.

 

There is no demand for it for a reason. Few want sim flight combat...and there were people asking for flight combat in WoW. It didnt come for a reason. 12 million players, only a few thousand cared.

[Minack]

Yes, they never topped even close to the biggest MMOs playerbase.

 

Hell, Conan is claiming 600k subs created since going free and that is almost any 2 games with sim flight combat...and thats just one game without it.

 

Would only have to take Runes of Magic playerbase to top every single sim flight combat MMO ever made at the HEIGHT of their popularity combined. Go on, combine EVEs, SWGs and...lol...STOs.

 

Runes of Magic, over 4 million players

 

You have no numbers to back you. Not one. Its all just personal opinion.

 

 

Again, by your logic, SWTOR never should have been made because it isn't a magic/medieval fantasy game and those types of games have had more subs than Star Wars or Sci-fi games.

[loanstarr]

Being able to choose where I go makes it a sim?

I think so and if it changes the current controls, I’m not interested.

 

If having the ability to move in 3 dimensions with a mouse and keyboard frightens you because it seems overly complicated, you're either a quadriplegic or a no...I'll be nice.

 

…frightens? No. I just don’t like it. Good you should be nice because there’s no reason to be insulting and rude because someone has a different opinion than you do.

 

And no YOU go find the article. You don't get to quote an article that may or may not exist as gospel and then cop out when asked for it. Learn2Source.

 

sure I can, because I read something and mentioned it doesn’t mean I owe you anything. You can choose not to believe it. Doesn’t change the truth though.

 

People weren't flocking to SWG because of all the bad press after the NGE and a few thick headed developers (I'm looking at you Blixtev). It had nothing to do with JTL.

 

Your opinion, not a fact. The fact is the game was shut down because not enough people wanted to play that game.

 

And I'm sorry, making a comparison between TOR and a smartphone game people play during office meetings should scare the daylights out of you. If that's the direction you want TOR to follow then I hope to God the devs never read a thing you post.

 

again, it was a comparison how simple games can be very successful that’s all. With my original point being I like the simplistic/arcade style of space combat it’s very relevant. But I think you’re missing the point on purpose so I’ll give up on trying to educate you on the benefit of making connections to other games for discussion.

[gregordunbar]

Again, by your logic, SWTOR never should have been made because it isn't a magic/medieval fantasy game and those types of games have had more subs than Star Wars or Sci-fi games.

 

it would seem you did not read from the beginning, you have no context.

[Xumagai]

Again, by your logic, SWTOR never should have been made because it isn't a magic/medieval fantasy game and those types of games have had more subs than Star Wars or Sci-fi games.

 

Exactly. He doesn't seem to grasp the fact that people are here saying "we want to fly in space ships and fight the enemy in space!" all he can come back with is "nobody likes it and it doesn't sell". We're right here telling you we want it! Hell I've always wanted a mounted combat mmorpg with tanks and mechas and crap, doesn't mean im going to get it. But here is this game with a space aspect and they are doing a horrible job of it, so by gregors numbers swtor is chronically ill and will die within the week lol.

[CeiLican]

meh I just ignored Gregor...he isn't worth talking to any more.

[Minack]

it would seem you did not read from the beginning, you have no context.

 

Oh I read it. I'm just using the exact same logic as you to discredit your point.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Minack

[RobHouse]

i am not going to read this post because i am tired. that said, space combat is fun. there i said it

[TrakonBazzaak]

 

This forum is a tiny, tiny, tiny minority of the people who play this game.

 

This forum is a tiny, tiny, tiny minority of the people who play this game.

 

Get it?

 

I play this game more than you, and I browse this forum more that you do.

 

The forum is a decent depiction of the community.

 

Just because you (and others like you that copy that idea like lemmings) see it on the forum you get this idea that you can discount everything said on the forum.

 

 

I can say as someone who has been browsing this forum since about 2 minutes after it was released to the public that the majority of the community disagrees with the op.

 

I have read hundreds of posts with thousands of responses saying "make space combat better".

 

Get it?

[gregordunbar]

Exactly. He doesn't seem to grasp the fact that people are here saying "we want to fly in space ships and fight the enemy in space!" all he can come back with is "nobody likes it and it doesn't sell". We're right here telling you we want it! Hell I've always wanted a mounted combat mmorpg with tanks and mechas and crap, doesn't mean im going to get it. But here is this game with a space aspect and they are doing a horrible job of it, so by gregors numbers swtor is chronically ill and will die within the week lol.

 

Perhaps if you read WHY I am saying it you would know.

 

It got started by one person stating that most MMO players DONT LIKE FLIGHT SIMs and another stating it does and gave a personal opinion as to why they do.

 

THAT is what I replied to, and we replied to each other a bunch of times BEFORE you came in not knowing why its happening.

 

CONTEXT, you dont have it, and that is why you are making assumptions that dont fit and its also why replies like this are being made

actually gregordunbar is right on point. people keep dismissing off hand obvious logic and basic reasoning as if it was far fetched. Take a step back and look at the gaming industry, how many flight sim'd MMO games are wildly successful right now? people dont want to play those games

 

No offense but thats nonsense. The industry is very smart, its a numbers game based on business. They go where the money is and the most players are.

 

But you can pretend all you want its just me...personal attacks show a lot.

[loanstarr]

It doesn't NEED to have anything.

 

it's an MMO, it doesn't need to have a PvP system.

it's an MMO, it doesn't need to have a fast travel system.

it's an MMO, it doesn't need to have companions.

 

See how much fun that is?

 

That doesn’t quite work though. Those are all staples of a traditional themepark MMO (with the exception of TOR companions) Flights sims aren’t.

 

If you don't want to play the space game, then don't.

 

No offense, this is an awful point to make. As I said before in this thread it’s about resources and priorities. If BW focuses on revamping space combat it takes resources from somewhere else. And not to mention I want to keep playing it the way it is.

[loanstarr]

I can say as someone who has been browsing this forum since about 2 minutes after it was released to the public that the majority of the community disagrees with the op.

 

I have read hundreds of posts with thousands of responses saying "make space combat better".

 

Get it?

 

Yes "make space combat better", dont pretend you know exactly what that means for everybody or that you speak for everyone

[Xumagai]

Perhaps if you read WHY I am saying it you would know.

 

It got started by one person stating that most MMO players DONT LIKE FLIGHT SIMs and another stating it does and gave a personal opinion as to why they do.

 

THAT is what I replied to, and we replied to each other a bunch of times BEFORE you came in not knowing why its happening.

 

CONTEXT, you dont have it, and that is why you are making assumptions that dont fit and its also why replies like this are being made

 

 

 

But you can pretend all you want its just me...personal attacks show a lot.

 

I read the entirety of the thread so I do understand where you are coming from, I 100% disagree with your assumption so no additional explanation is necessary.

[SwordoftheStars]

space game sucks, if i want mini games, i can go play mario party 4 and even that has multiplayer

 

/end of story

[Semihages]

Maybe we just need to have 2 modes?

 

I dont' see why we can't have some space combat battle to be on rail.. And some be coop free roaming..

 

Obviously I expect free roaming ones give better rewards

[gregordunbar]

Oh I read it. I'm just using the exact same logic as you to discredit your point.

 

using out of context logic to discredit in context logic, your point has no point. you cant do it any other way for a reason, you are not standing on solid ground.

 

The argument point still stands. most MMO players do not like flight sim combat. there are no numbers to back up that they do going back to the mid 90s when MMORPGs went 3D graphics.

 

Not one single MMO with flight sim combat has come close to the popularity of those without it. Provide actual numbers not opinions...and at NO POINT did I even HINT that your personal opinion of liking them was not valid.

 

Bioware chose not to do it, chose to go with actual action based space combat and the last time I checked, space combat got good reviews.

 

The industry has spoken...and seeing as how my spaceship parts keep selling on the GTN, so have players.

[trimw]

I grew up playing x-wing, tie fighter, wing commander etc. This on rails stuff in swtor is fun for about 5mins then it gets boring. Put in proper x-wing series gameplay and you will be entertained for a very long time, trust me.

 

And no, you would not have to use a joystick. They could easilly map the controls to keyboard + mouse aswell like they did way back then.

[Minack]

Perhaps if you read WHY I am saying it you would know.

 

It got started by one person stating that most MMO players DONT LIKE FLIGHT SIMs and another stating it does and gave a personal opinion as to why they do.

 

THAT is what I replied to, and we replied to each other a bunch of times BEFORE you came in not knowing why its happening.

 

CONTEXT, you dont have it, and that is why you are making assumptions that dont fit and its also why replies like this are being made

 

 

 

But you can pretend all you want its just me...personal attacks show a lot.

 

 

I see one person talking about the MMO industry and another poster parroting it. When all I asked for was a little evidence that MMO players do not like Space Sim. I play MMOS and I also like flight sims. Now I may be in the minority, but I'd like to see a little evidence of that.

 

To say that because there are fewer Space MMOs on the market automatically means MMO players don't like Space is just as flimsy as someone saying that anything that isn't a fantasy orc/gnome/elf WOW clone is a failure because WOW and all its clones obviously have more subs. That's not an argument, it's just lazy.

[Saitada]

Perhaps if you read WHY I am saying it you would know.

 

It got started by one person stating that most MMO players DONT LIKE FLIGHT SIMs and another stating it does and gave a personal opinion as to why they do.

 

THAT is what I replied to, and we replied to each other a bunch of times BEFORE you came in not knowing why its happening.

 

CONTEXT, you dont have it, and that is why you are making assumptions that dont fit and its also why replies like this are being made

 

 

 

But you can pretend all you want its just me...personal attacks show a lot.

 

Well Greg, I guess you and I are just going to have to agree that we disagree on this subject. I've been playing MMO's since a 286 processor was top of the line and in every MMO I have played, there has always been discussion by players wondering when a decent (key word decent) space based MMO would come out.

 

many of us hoped it would be STO when it was announced but Cryptic... just failed. However they DID get some aspects right, and that was their space combat system. EVE is a niche game. It is a hard core PVP centric game which is NOT to most players taste.

 

STO has both ground combat and Space combat. Obviously cryptic could have done better on both but there was a very large population of people who really hoped they would get it right.

 

SWTOR supposedly has over 2 million subs. This by itself is proof enough that people want something different than the current market share and are looking for it everywhere in the hopes that 'someone' will get it right.

 

SWTOR comes close in several aspects. But it fails horridly in one, and that is space combat. This is a SPACE themed game... with so little actual SPACE to it.. that it does kinda beggar the question.

 

Do I want the game to be ONLY space based? No.. but if they could produce something a little more free form than they currently have for the space missions.. i'd be a heck of a lot happier.

 

I'm personally not asking to be able to fly around an entire planet, etc etc... I'm just asking to be able to move my ship in the direction 'I' want it to go within the confines of the mission area. Not have my path scripted as if I was on a roller coaster ride.

 

In over 25 years of gaming I have ran into tens of thousands of gamers who would LOVE a decent space themed game with both space and ground combat.

 

And I know the people I have talked to are only a small portion of the total number of gamers out there, so if so many people are interested in something, it kinda suggests that more than that are interested as well.

 

Now.. let me point out.. the people I talked to are a limited population of people restricted to the particular servers I was on in each game I have played, and that is one or two servers out of many. This over 25 years. I'd venture to suggest that there is a wider interest for a decent space themed game with decent space and ground combat than you think.

 

Anyway, I have some Chicken to grill. It's been nice debating with you. Have a nice day and fly safe.

 

~Saitada

Edited January 29, 2012 by Saitada