Why is Crafted Gear not the best?

[crowncrow]

Crafted gear is not the best because it would allow for a solo road to getting the best gear in the game, which would allow for just about anyone to be able to get this gear with no group effort. Devs are going to encourage group play more in MMOs than solo play by makin gthe best items attainable in groups. So, pretty much that.

 

Haven't been paying attention to the posts I think... ?

 

No one is saying crafting endgame gear must be a solo effort disconnected from raids etc.

Edited January 29, 2012 by crowncrow

[Jahor]

Crafted gear is not the best because it would allow for a solo road to getting the best gear in the game, which would allow for just about anyone to be able to get this gear with no group effort.

 

We all pay the same real money peer month to play!

 

If someone do not want to raid or PvP ... what's the justification to not let him optain equal good gear as the one who like PvP or raiding?

 

Let him gather tons of material from silver+gray+some soloble champs where he need a month for one top item (level 58 atm). BUT LET HIM BE ABLE TO!

[Pythoris]

We all pay the same real money peer month to play!

 

If someone do not want to raid or PvP ... what's the justification to not let him optain equal good gear as the one who like PvP or raiding?

 

Let him gather tons of material from silver+gray+some soloble champs where he need a month for one top item (level 58 atm). BUT LET HIM BE ABLE TO!

 

Well, it's a shame the devs don't agree with you. They are always going to encourage group play by making rewards for grouping substantially better than rewards for solo activities. Hey, don't kill the messenger. lol

[Pythoris]

Haven't been paying attention to the posts I think... ?

 

No one is saying crafting endgame gear must be a solo effort disconnected from raids etc.

 

Well, if the mats gotten from raiding are bound to whomever loots them, then perhaps that's one way crafting can yield the best gear.

[Dharst]

How MMO's handle gear at cap differs, but I prefer Rift's solution... half crafted to get you in the door and the rest you have to earn through progression and success.

 

That said- this is the first MMO I have ever played where the Armor crafts couldn't make a full set (every armor piece) for any particular level. It's almost random- a hodge/podge approach.

 

The whole argument is moot at this point- these are the issues that should have been resolved in Beta...and weren't. I always beleived that was what Beta testing was for- not just a marketing tool but get feedback and make significant changes to the game before the final release.

 

Guess BW had a more limited notion.

[crowncrow]

Honestly, if pre-NGE Galaxies was still running, I would still be playing. That game had all kinds of bugs and problems up to the day is closed down, and yet it was damn near the ideal player crafting system. Better than Eve, ATitD (google it), or any other mainstream or niche game I have ever heard of.

 

I did google it and I found this:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/6/feature/4947/Top-Crafting-Systems.html

 

I think the guy that describes the SWG crafting system puts it very very well:

 

"I hesitate to bring this one up, as I know it’s still a wound (maybe a scar?) that people feel the pains of today. But bar none, SWG had the most interesting and important crafting system in recent MMOs. It fostered a sense of community like few games do in that everyone was dependent on one another for supplies, armor, transportation, and so on and so forth. Blasters, starships, housing, food, furniture, droids… SWG was once the epitome of living in a virtual George Lucas film (when people still liked his films). And while it’s a shame that those days are gone, one can only hope that someday another game will get enough exposure for a similarly engaging crafting community."

 

I especially like the bit about fostering a sense of community... missing SWG:(

[RyderrUK]

The day that the gear some nerd eating cheetos in his pants at his mothers is better then the gear that an uberhard end boss of a hard dungeon is the day when mmos have failed.

[Svengoole]

I disagree with the notion of crafted gear being only entry level. It depends how you set the game up.

 

Unfortunately, SWTOR is using the formula of dropped gear/tier gear etc being the ultimate goal. But I will to this day, say that the early days (because thats what I remember) of SWG were one of the best implementations of a player economy.

 

Everything worthwhile using, was player created. The best weapons, the best armor, the houses, everything. Heck, being a crafting class itself was really cool. People have this idea in their head, that the only way to do things, is to beat a big baddie until he drops your phat lewts. When there exists this whole wonderful world out there, that can be completely focused around crafting.

 

This about sums up my opinion on crafting. In SWG I enjoyed my shipwright and armorsmith more than I did my combat classes. At the end of my run on SWG I was the guild shipwright crafting our RE gear and ships. That crafting system and the economic system that came from it was in my opinion still the best. It was cool to have people in game catch me when I was at star ports and ask me to craft them a ship or armor. It made for a great community.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Svengoole

[Duckroll]

Still not sure why people think "Best gear found in a group" and "Best gear is crafted" are mutually exclusive. Crafters can need to get stuff that needs groups (PvE or PvP which is always a group anyway) and sell it or give it to guildmates. Best crafted PvP gear can have a valor requirement.

 

Also means we can throw away the silly RNG system for PvP loot, means no more loot drama for PvE. All problems solved.

[Chromiie]

The day that the gear some nerd eating cheetos in his pants at his mothers is better then the gear that an uberhard end boss of a hard dungeon is the day when mmos have failed.

 

What's your point? Your playing Star Wars your BOTH nerds.

[Jahor]

What's your point? Your playing Star Wars your BOTH nerds.

 

He is a raid fainboy who loves to spend 4+ hours 7 days a week in dungeons just to get the one item he still need ninjad by the random one who was invited to fill the last spot with a raid leader like this ->

this video is not harmless! do not play without your perents!

[Uruare]

Crafted gear is not the best because it would allow for a solo road to getting the best gear in the game, which would allow for just about anyone to be able to get this gear with no group effort. Devs are going to encourage group play more in MMOs than solo play by makin gthe best items attainable in groups. So, pretty much that.

 

 

People will raid if they want to raid. They don't need to be forced to raid if they want to raid. Force /= 'encouragement'.

 

Gate the best of everything behind raids and welcome to alienating people that don't want to raid, for any or no reason at all.

 

Gate the best of everything behind PVP and...same deal.

 

 

It's tantamount to saying that if you don't want to raid and PVP, play another game.

 

This would, in any case, be the entirely reasonable interpretation to hold on such a circumstance; that is absolutely what it's 'encouraging'.

 

Want to craft but not raid? Too bad; raid or get happy being inferior. Want to craft and PVP? Biochem or bust. Can't make any Expertise gear or anything else that's useful to PVP in any remarkable manner.

 

Good design for a game repeatedly stated by its developers as being a big, important thing for dedicated crafter-type players?

 

We've just about been lied to. The thin, gleaming edge of improbable technicality prevent such from being an outright lie, but, it would also be technically true to tell someone that they -could fly- if they flap their arms fast enough.

 

It's -technically possible- at the thinnest, gleaming edge of technical possibility.

 

So is making any crafting but Biochem relevant beyond leveling up to 49 if you're doing the farming of hardmodes and raids as crafting will force, not encourage, you to do if you want to keep on with it.

 

To be absolutely and exclusively technical, crafting can give you BIS items.

 

Practically? This topic doesn't exist in practical terms. It is practical for nobody, not even hardcore crafter-raiders.

 

By implication? Misleading and disappointing altogether.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Uruare

[iceninenine]

Love the game.

 

The crafting aspect of this game was over-promised and WAY under-delivered, imo.

[Toxophile]

The day that the gear some nerd eating cheetos in his pants at his mothers is better then the gear that an uberhard end boss of a hard dungeon is the day when mmos have failed.

 

The day when some cheetos-munching button-mashing nerd living in mom's basement is able to get gear better than that provided by people with the brains and commitment to work a great crafting system is the day when MMO's will become some themepark grindfest with rotations and cookie-cutter specs.

 

Oh, wait.....

[xioix]

What's the point of endgame raiding then? I k now you special snowflake will say "for fun" but you are the minority. PPL sub to MMO and grind dungeons for gear and this undisputable as the sun rising tomorrow.

[Toxophile]

Theres as much point to end-game raiding as there is for an interesting crafting system. It's all about options. And it can never be said too may times: These are not mutually exclusive options. There is a fair and equitable way to allow crafters to make the best item in game while still allowing end-game raiders/pvp to sport the best gear.

[PjPablo]

Theres as much point to end-game raiding as there is for an interesting crafting system. It's all about options. And it can never be said too may times: These are not mutually exclusive options. There is a fair and equitable way to allow crafters to make the best item in game while still allowing end-game raiders/pvp to sport the best gear.

 

If crafting involved any skill whatsoever I think that would make sense. Currently it doesn't and so probably should not be responsible for creating anything near BIS. The current crafting system is beyond weak and would need a major overall before it would make sense for crafting to be responsible for any item even close to BIS.

[GuyTallman]

I think that it shouldn't be about being "better," i.e. more armor, more stats. Crafted gear should present unique options that aren't present in the other gear. Weapons that have unique properties like stun chance, vamp chance, or the like. Armor with shield proc chances, or unique powers like a slow fall, temp invis etc etc.

 

Something to give people a reason to at least think about wanting to craft some gear. And if their is an issue of it being "overpowered" then just make it BoP so that only the crafter can benefit from it.

[Skoll]

What's the point of endgame raiding then? I k now you special snowflake will say "for fun" but you are the minority. PPL sub to MMO and grind dungeons for gear and this undisputable as the sun rising tomorrow.

 

True. Would old content be considered obsolete as new content is added, if people had been raiding purely for fun? I don't believe that even for a fraction of a nanosecond. If that was the case then a lot more people would still be doing those old raids.

[PjPablo]

I think that it shouldn't be about being "better," i.e. more armor, more stats. Crafted gear should present unique options that aren't present in the other gear. Weapons that have unique properties like stun chance, vamp chance, or the like. Armor with shield proc chances, or unique powers like a slow fall, temp invis etc etc.

 

Something to give people a reason to at least think about wanting to craft some gear. And if their is an issue of it being "overpowered" then just make it BoP so that only the crafter can benefit from it.

 

Huge balancing issues would come into play.

 

So only crafters can be overpowered?

[GuyTallman]

Huge balancing issues would come into play.

 

So only crafters can be overpowered?

 

Way to be hyperbolic about non specific non defined ideas. ZOMG the nonexistant crafter implementations are so overpowered nerf them before they ruin the game!!!!11!!1

 

If they are capable of balancing say, pvp gear against pve gear, I think they are more than capable of finding a niche for crafting gear which is all I was suggesting. Your notion that they are incapable of balancing is decidedly fatalistic and leads me to ask, if that is true then why play at all? Won't the game be eternally imbalanced and what does it matter if they throw in one more imbalanced thing into a game which can have no balance?

[PjPablo]

Way to be hyperbolic about non specific non defined ideas. ZOMG the nonexistant crafter implementations are so overpowered nerf them before they ruin the game!!!!11!!1

 

If they are capable of balancing say, pvp gear against pve gear, I think they are more than capable of finding a niche for crafting gear which is all I was suggesting. Your notion that they are incapable of balancing is decidedly fatalistic and leads me to ask, if that is true then why play at all? Won't the game be eternally imbalanced and what does it matter if they throw in one more imbalanced thing into a game which can have no balance?

 

LOL You said in your post to avoid something becoming overpowered that only crafters should be able to use it. Thus, it sounds like an overpowered item. Just following what you yourself posted.

 

I think they could improve crafting, yes. However, to enter a bunch of variables like you mentioned crafted items as potentially having it would make balancing that much more difficult. Balancing in an MMO is already a difficult, never-ending task for developers. Why complicate it?

 

Sounds to me that some are really struggling with the fact that crafting is simply an afterthought in this game. If you are looking for a robust crafting system this might not be the game for you.

[genmyke]

oh this thread again.

 

 

i would like to ask why do you need the "BEST" gear in the game if you are not raiding or doing pvp?

 

 

raids need to have the gear treadmill to keep people running the place im pretty sure most will get bored pretty quick on the 4th run and not gaining anything from it because they can craft their "BEST" gear.

 

i wish they would make crafting more relevant and be able to make money better but being the "BEST" gear no if you want to craft so bad go play minecraft to get your fix swtor clearly encourages people to group up and do things.

Edited January 29, 2012 by genmyke

[Geawiel]

That's not the case atm.

Daily Belsavis+Ilum >>>> crafted stuff and that's just stupid.

 

All the improvements you can buy for 8 dailys is +1 level higher then the best crafteble. And with this improvements you can just mod some random armor/weapon which then is better then any crafteble weapon/armor.

 

NO raiding or PvP involved! Just singel player missions (maybe H2/H4 if you like).

 

And even if they would be as good as crafted .. as soon as you start raiding you can junk all your skills and notice: "damit, I wasted over 1 million credits for nothing!".

 

Or you just grind your way through PvP ego shoter death matches.

 

There must be at last one type of craft peer profession, which is ALLWAYS better then anything you can optain via raiding or PvP. Something where it is posible to make ALLWAYS profit after you invested so much time and money.

 

Bio is the only one atm, which has such stuff. And that's why it is the only usefull profession atm . It wouldn't even hurt, if you remove all other as there is absolut no use after level 50 anymore. Hell, armor synt and weapon craft isn't even usefull from level 1 as you level so fast and get so much good equip that there is simply no market for crafted stuff.

And that is pur fail by designe.

 

I'll add to this, and reenforce as well since some don't seem to be getting it. Armor and weapon crafting as it is right now is COMPLETELY USELESS. I did light pvp and got my 20 OJ. From then on, I used planet commedations to buy mods and fill in the spaces. I leveedl armortech only to realize that it was USELESS. I quit and didn't finish leveling it until I hit 50. Only then because I love to craft.

 

I DON'T expect for crafting to be above anything else. Especially in the theme park. Having it on par would be nice. Having it even a slight step behind raid/pvp would be acceptable. However, as it is now, IT'S USELESS. There are tons of excellent suggestions in this thread to make it at the very least a slight step behind.

 

Crafting can be fun, and relevant. I used to love crafting in DAoC. I had armor, weapon and spellcrafting maxxed. I loved using Kort's and researching for what was around an hour when I first started to do it, to get all the stats maxxed out while allowing some classes to switch weapons in a fight and not lose a stat. Then balancing around in the high end with TOA stuff to get the stats maxxed and get some of those special TOA bonuses and abilities (and to the DAoC guys, yes I did like TOA...and now I'm going to have to go into hiding for saying that....again...) DAoC was a loose theme park yet, they still made all but fletching viable. Even then, fletching was only made irrelevant after the subs dropped and they revamped hunter classes and made it so they didn't require arrows anymore. Prior to that, they were good for arrows. Though I guess they're still good for Bows/staves in the sub 50 club.

 

It may take a bit of out of the box thinking and grabbing of mechanics from other places but, it can be done. I'm not even going to address the "you don't need it" crowd.

[Pythoris]

*snip*

 

Look, the truth of the matter is, you're going to get decent rewards for doing solo content, but the absolute best rewards are going to come from group content. Because devs are always going to encourage group play a bit more than always stayin solo. Because that's the meat of an MMO, group play. They are going to encourage socialising more than being alone. As I said, solo players will get nice schwag; stuff that will be more than efficient for their style of play. But if you want the best stuff in the game, get in a group. That's how MMOs work. *shrug*