Dracosz Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) Actually it was showing your biggest hit was 4800. We have to take your word it was impale. I don't believe it myself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PAlEnoA1hk This video was taken on the same day as the SS. At around 4:35, I end up having a 4.2k crit with an adrenal up with impale (and 3 stack). For those of you that *think* that the 4.8k crit I have is not impale, Vicious throw does NOT (for some odd reason) ever show up on the logs for PvP unless you have the PvP adrenal up (and I do not use the PvP adrenal as the power scales better). For those that are trying to "discredit" me, your attempts are coming off as petty and honestly, they don't have any basis in fact and are pretty ad hominem. I never said that rage was BAD, but I did say that vengeance was an alternative that was just as strong and (in my opinion) offers several excellent perks. The spec is simply underrated by those not willing to give it a chance. And that was with 5 stacks of slow? Hell i can do that on demand every time use using a force crush then smash. It's not 5 stack, but a fair point regardless. Still, how much damage are you doing with your other attacks? Crush ticks for 700-900 and your other abilities do laughable damage barring scream. What it really comes down to (for me at least) is that rage feels and IS solely reliant upon smash to deal damage and beyond dealing damage does not feel as versatile to me. To each his own, I suppose, but don't write off a spec because its damage isn't all centric to one ability. Edited January 28, 2012 by Dracosz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daays Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 http://tinypic.com/r/apdwnm/5 Vengeance damage is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soonerjohn Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PAlEnoA1hk This video was taken on the same day as the SS. At around 4:35, I end up having a 4.2k crit with an adrenal up with impale (and 3 stack). For those of you that *think* that the 4.8k crit I have is not impale, Vicious throw does NOT (for some odd reason) ever show up on the logs for PvP unless you have the PvP adrenal up (and I do not use the PvP adrenal as the power scales better). For those that are trying to "discredit" me, your attempts are coming off as petty and honestly, they don't have any basis in fact and are pretty ad hominem. I never said that rage was BAD, but I did say that vengeance was an alternative that was just as strong and (in my opinion) offers several excellent perks. The spec is simply underrated by those not willing to give it a chance. It's not 5 stack, but a fair point regardless. Still, how much damage are you doing with your other attacks? Crush ticks for 700-900 and your other abilities do laughable damage barring scream. What it really comes down to (for me at least) is that rage feels and IS solely reliant upon smash to deal damage and beyond dealing damage does not feel as versatile to me. To each his own, I suppose, but don't write off a spec because its damage isn't all centric to one ability. Do you mind posting your exact build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracosz Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Do you mind posting your exact build? Sure, http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crZIMrRruddMR.1 The points in piercing scream can be swapped in for points for accuracy as you see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PAlEnoA1hk This video was taken on the same day as the SS. At around 4:35, I end up having a 4.2k crit with an adrenal up with impale (and 3 stack). For those of you that *think* that the 4.8k crit I have is not impale, Vicious throw does NOT (for some odd reason) ever show up on the logs for PvP unless you have the PvP adrenal up (and I do not use the PvP adrenal as the power scales better). For those that are trying to "discredit" me, your attempts are coming off as petty and honestly, they don't have any basis in fact and are pretty ad hominem. So you are saying to get those numbers you have to do as someone said, be decked out in battlemaster, pop adrenals and stack pooled hatred on a medium armor class who is not in bettalemaster gear. Gear makes a huge difference. In champ gear I'll smash for 4k+ easily against people without champ gear with no adrenals, but against battlemaster gear, I'm lucky to hit 3k with adrenals. Against champ gear it tends to be a constant 3k-4k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracosz Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 So you are saying to get those numbers you have to do as someone said, be decked out in battlemaster, pop adrenals and stack pooled hatred on a medium armor class who is not in bettalemaster gear. Gear makes a huge difference. In champ gear I'll smash for 4k+ easily against people without champ gear with no adrenals, but against battlemaster gear, I'm lucky to hit 3k with adrenals. Against champ gear it tends to be a constant 3k-4k. Sadly, i'm not in full battlemaster (weapon/implant/earpieces/bracer only atm). You didn't watch the full video did you? There were several battlemasters in there and they were in champ gear and I had consistent 3k screams/impales against them as well. Adrenals make a difference, sure, but everyone has access to them so it's no tall order to use them effectively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Sadly, i'm not in full battlemaster (weapon/implant/earpieces/bracer only atm). You didn't watch the full video did you? There were several battlemasters in there and they were in champ gear and I had consistent 3k screams/impales against them as well. Adrenals make a difference, sure, but everyone has access to them so it's no tall order to use them effectively I can impale for 3k as well. The claim you made was the impale for 4k+ you made it sound like it was a common occurrence with no setup, when in fact it did have setup to it. Vengeance is good in pvp if you pick the right targets (squishies). As soon as you run into anything tank like you start hitting for a lot less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morsexy Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I do both in my second video that I'm about to release. I personally think that Rage is favorable in more situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakoonHT Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 its not like rage can hit big without setups... big hit impale is quicker to set up than a big hit setup slam or are your 4-5k hits not 4 out of 4 stacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracosz Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 its not like rage can hit big without setups... big hit impale is quicker to set up than a big hit setup slam or are your 4-5k hits not 4 out of 4 stacks? This, in essence. Every spec (save for tracer missle/grav round spam >_>) has setup to deal damage. My personal contention is that players that recognize a rage specked jug will know how to handle the setup (especially since the buff is so apparent visually). Rage's setup can take up to 8 seconds (lower if you're using choke in conjunction) vengeance's setup is effectively being on the target (and arguably a sunder armor for grab round) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 This, in essence. Every spec (save for tracer missle/grav round spam >_>) has setup to deal damage. My personal contention is that players that recognize a rage specked jug will know how to handle the setup (especially since the buff is so apparent visually). Rage's setup can take up to 8 seconds (lower if you're using choke in conjunction) vengeance's setup is effectively being on the target (and arguably a sunder armor for grab round) You play rage poorly if it takes you 8 seconds to get 4 stacks. It takes about 3 seconds to get max stacks at which point you should either already have the buff from leap/oblit, or be ready with it. You control your setup rather than rely on other people to build stacks on you with a buggy buff that sometimes stacks sometimes doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soonerjohn Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Sure, http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crZIMrRruddMR.1 The points in piercing scream can be swapped in for points for accuracy as you see fit. Thought it was something like that. Mine is very similar. I have two points in stagger instead of unyielding. I've always got enough rage and like the extra second of root after charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracosz Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 You play rage poorly if it takes you 8 seconds to get 4 stacks. It takes about 3 seconds to get max stacks at which point you should either already have the buff from leap/oblit, or be ready with it. You control your setup rather than rely on other people to build stacks on you with a buggy buff that sometimes stacks sometimes doesn't. 8 seconds was a hyperbole, regardless, you're playing vengeance wrong if you're relying upon pooled hatred to deal damage. Even without the damage boost you can still deal absurd amounts of damage to your target as vengeance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) This, in essence. Every spec (save for tracer missle/grav round spam >_>) has setup to deal damage. My personal contention is that players that recognize a rage specked jug will know how to handle the setup (especially since the buff is so apparent visually). Rage's setup can take up to 8 seconds (lower if you're using choke in conjunction) vengeance's setup is effectively being on the target (and arguably a sunder armor for grab round) The difference is two fold: 1. Smash can get 100% chance to crit, Impale cannot. You are more likely to not get a crit then to crit. 2. That Smash crit is going to hit multiple people, that Impale(if it crits) will hit one person for no more damage then the smash would. I play Vengeance, but I'm sorry it needs some love right now. Increasing the bleeds is the way to go I think, right now they have no talent tree synergy and no scaling. Edit: Anyone ever run a Rage spec with Pooled Hatred? You'd miss out on crush and only be able to smash combo off choke but I would be curious as to the potential damage output of a 5 hatred 5 shockwave stacked smash crit. Edit2: Nevermind..smash doesnt trigger pooled Edited January 29, 2012 by Dreadspectre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakoonHT Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 just recorded a nice 5598 impale last game which is my top crit for impale 3440 is my top non crit impale on vid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volion Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Both of the specs are viable, saying otherwise just means you suck at one of them. It's really about which one you prefer. Agreed, depending on if I'm going to pug or run with a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylaurin Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Just wanted to drop a link to a similar thread over in the guardian forums. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=234346 Pay attention to JackMinn's posts. He's running as vigilance (the JK equiv of veng) http://i.imgur.com/JLtm0.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flegg Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Just wanted to drop a link to a similar thread over in the guardian forums. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=234346 Pay attention to JackMinn's posts. He's running as vigilance (the JK equiv of veng) http://i.imgur.com/JLtm0.jpg Hi I also just wanted to drop a link. http://youtu.be/bXrYOV4WfjA Pay attention to the difference in numbers. Edited January 29, 2012 by flegg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesperadoIG Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 youtu.be? Yea, looks like a legit link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flegg Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 youtu.be? Yea, looks like a legit link They created a shortened URL for use on sites like Twitter that limit the number of characters you can use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylaurin Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 youtu.be? Yea, looks like a legit link It's safe. youtu.be is youtube's shortened twitter friendly url. Go to a video on you tube and check the share link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flegg Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) To be fair though some of the points brought up from some of the better vengeance players are good; good enough for me to want to try out a vengeance spec again. However I still see vengeance as too situational, whereas rage can almost always be effective. Edited January 29, 2012 by flegg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flegg Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Just happened to take the SS as solo queue. Most games I queue in group with I hit the 500k medal easily and occasionally get destroyer. You mean the 50k medal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flegg Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PAlEnoA1hk This video was taken on the same day as the SS. At around 4:35, I end up having a 4.2k crit with an adrenal up with impale (and 3 stack). For those of you that *think* that the 4.8k crit I have is not impale, Vicious throw does NOT (for some odd reason) ever show up on the logs for PvP unless you have the PvP adrenal up (and I do not use the PvP adrenal as the power scales better). For those that are trying to "discredit" me, your attempts are coming off as petty and honestly, they don't have any basis in fact and are pretty ad hominem. I never said that rage was BAD, but I did say that vengeance was an alternative that was just as strong and (in my opinion) offers several excellent perks. The spec is simply underrated by those not willing to give it a chance. It's not 5 stack, but a fair point regardless. Still, how much damage are you doing with your other attacks? Crush ticks for 700-900 and your other abilities do laughable damage barring scream. What it really comes down to (for me at least) is that rage feels and IS solely reliant upon smash to deal damage and beyond dealing damage does not feel as versatile to me. To each his own, I suppose, but don't write off a spec because its damage isn't all centric to one ability. You didn't use shatter a single time in that video except to try and finish someone off and that was suppose to showcase vengeance spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracosz Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 You didn't use shatter a single time in that video except to try and finish someone off and that was suppose to showcase vengeance spec? I used shatter multiple times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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