Is it me or Is Master Strike pretty usless?

[Sandover]

Okay ... when I read the Master Strike tooltip for the Jedi Knight Guardians I am thinking wow, this is going to be an amazing skill ... Not!

 

Considering the final damage output of Master Strike, calculating on a positive crit chance, plus the animation for the Skill, your total DPS output for that one ability that takes 3.5 seconds to do comes up to about 400 - 750 per second.

 

You would think that master strike would signify a huge powerful skill. I mean, don't get me wrong, the first part of the ability is fantastic (reverse saber strike), but instead of following up with a 2.5 second, "Baseball" swing attack it should follow up with a quick Ten-Uchi strike (Spinning back around slicing upwards at an angle across the body and then swooping with a Overhead strike back down to complete a crisscross pattern). The entire sequence takes less than a second to do and looks like a "Peace Ridbbon" pattern.

 

In PvE, the only reason for using Master Strike is to wait for the cooldowns of other more damage skills that have less "cast" times. In PvP ... hmmph. "Yo, stand still while I take three seconds to do this attack on you."

 

Common, really?

Edited January 26, 2012 by Sandover

[Shadow_Spec]

 

In PvP ... hmmph. "Yo, stand still while I take three seconds to do this attack on you."

 

 

lol this is so funny XD

 

Master strike is one of those opportunistic type of attacks. Especially in PvP. If your teammates have someone slowed, or stunned, blast them with it. True it's pretty useless but not completely.

[Malissant]

It's actually quite effective and there aren't many other skills that do 700dps, remember to factor in the global cooldown, you can't spam a skill every second. Yes, it will likely not be the top of your priority list, but it should be in there, specifically for times when stuff is on cooldown or you're low on focus or a multitude of other opportunities.

 

In PvP it is very situational - drop a hilt strike on someone then proceed with a Master Strike, they'll hold still for 3 seconds, trust me. Don't try to Master Strike someone that is going to just walk away though, you need to learn when is a good time to use it.

[Atamasama]

I think you have a short memory. When you're low level, Master Strike is fantastic. You don't really have anything else that does as much DPS, and it costs no Focus to use. As you get higher up in level though it becomes less important. I'm 45, running a Vigilance/Defense build, and I may take if off my action bar, because I never really use it anymore. But it's far from useless, it's just not useful for the entire life of your character.

[Atamasama]

It's actually quite effective and there aren't many other skills that do 700dps, remember to factor in the global cooldown, you can't spam a skill every second. Yes, it will likely not be the top of your priority list, but it should be in there, specifically for times when stuff is on cooldown or you're low on focus or a multitude of other opportunities.

The problem is that it takes 3s to complete. And so it's going to cut into something else. I find that every time I use it, Sundering Strike, Blade Storm, Overhead Slash, or Force Sweep are going to come off CD before Master Strike is done which means I either delay one of those attacks (which have higher priority) or interrupt Master Strike (which really gimps it, the biggest hit is the last one). In situations where everything else is on CD, I just use Strike and at least get a point of Focus out of the deal, and it doesn't use up more than a single GCD.

[Sev_Argus]

I use Master Strike all the time in PvE, though I typically save it for Elite mobs, somewhere between a round of Sundering Strike cooldowns. I don't get too bogged down in damage numbers - I just know the animation for Master Strike totally and completely rocks.

 

Also makes for some good visual variety when I'm killing 30 of the same Deranged Imperial Arkanoids or whatever my current bonus quest is.

[Wheresthemilk]

you just now realized master strike is pointless in pvp?

 

yay you figured out why vigiliance is inherently broken!

[Drakks]

you just now realized master strike is pointless in pvp?

 

yay you figured out why vigiliance is inherently broken!

 

There is one talent in Vig that boosts master strike, and it's easily avoided -- if that breaks the tree, then I guess the two talents that impact it in Focus break that tree as well?

[Wheresthemilk]

There is one talent in Vig that boosts master strike, and it's easily avoided -- if that breaks the tree, then I guess the two talents that impact it in Focus break that tree as well?

 

notice where they are on focus tree.

 

now notice where they are on vigiliance tree.

 

location matters a whole lot more, because we could have something useful there instead.

[Ichibukaka]

I really enjoy master strike. If specced, I can usually leap then master.

 

Or, When all my moves are on cool down, and i want to save focus, I can hit with sunder, then master, and now sunder is off cool down, so of course I sunder again.

 

If someone is stunned, or floating in the air, or in cover, I will usually use master strike.

 

after a full rotation of all my primary dps moves, I may hit Force push, force leap, and then master, and by then most my moves - 9 second cool downs - are coming off their cool downs, and In this process I have not spent any focus, but rather gained focus.

 

Personally, I really love master strike; even if it doesn't get its last hit off it still hits pretty hard. And honesty, in quite a few fights, people don't tend to run away from it and thus suffer its full effects.

 

And, correct me if I' am wrong, but I believe with unremittng that master strike is uninterruptible after a leap?

 

Try it out, play around, and discover how it works for you . . . You just may come to love it!!

Edited January 26, 2012 by Ichibukaka

[Atamasama]

And, correct me if I' am wrong, but I believe with unremittng that master strike is uninterruptible after a leap?

No, again Master Strike takes too long. Force Leap triggers the GCD and so you have to add 1.5s to the 3s that Master Strike takes, meaning it takes 4.5s from the beginning of Force Leap to the end of Master Strike. Unremitting lasts 4 seconds. So you can still be knocked down, stunned, or otherwise interrupted before Master Strike completes, before you get that last strike in. It's a small window but it's still there.

[stilari]

This sounds like a case of someone not being able to utilize a skill properly and thus blaming the class. User error ftw.

 

Can Master Strike be buffed? Certainly, that would be great! Could they add a talent into the Vigilance tree that allows you to move while casting? That would be stellar, but right now I find many uses for this ability and it can hit like a truck. Pick the right moment to use it (usually on a stunned enemy).

 

Guardian is very strong, and once all the people whining for changes actually take a step back, and consider the class on its own (without making comparisons to other MMOs) then they will see how it's meant to be played effectively.

 

But until then keep making threads bemoaning a class that is no where near as broken as people claim!

[Bakarn]

The talent in Vigilence should cause you to be able to channel Master Strike while moving, and Master Strike should also generate 1 focus per second.

[Faolon]

As a Defense spec'd Guardian, I find Force Stasis+Master Strike to be a great combo. I don't have to sit there channeling Stasis, so I can go right into Master Strike.

 

Rarely do people have enough sense to get out of melee range before the third strike hits and most seem to think getting out of melee range for half a second while I'm winding up the third strike is fine, only to met with a saber to the face.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Faolon

[Paydroid]

The talent in Vigilence should cause you to be able to channel Master Strike while moving, and Master Strike should also generate 1 focus per second.

 

Moving would be pretty crazy. I don't see any way you can do that unless the talent for it is placed higher in the tree than it currently is.

 

The idea to have it generate focus is a solid one though... if it did that it would be useful to everyone.

[Atamasama]

Moving would be pretty crazy. I don't see any way you can do that unless the talent for it is placed higher in the tree than it currently is.

 

The idea to have it generate focus is a solid one though... if it did that it would be useful to everyone.

Moving wouldn't work period. They'd have to redo the entire animation of the skill. It relies on you stepping around in kind of a kata, and if you're walking around it doesn't work. So that will never, and should never change.

 

But, I do like the idea of having it generate Focus the same way that Force Stasis does. I would definitely include that into my spec, and would put Master Strike back on my toolbar.

[Elaithe]

The problem is that it takes 3s to complete. And so it's going to cut into something else. I find that every time I use it, Sundering Strike, Blade Storm, Overhead Slash, or Force Sweep are going to come off CD before Master Strike is done which means I either delay one of those attacks (which have higher priority) or interrupt Master Strike (which really gimps it, the biggest hit is the last one). In situations where everything else is on CD, I just use Strike and at least get a point of Focus out of the deal, and it doesn't use up more than a single GCD.

 

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that you don't have to let the whole thing go off if they walk away, my bad...oh wait..you can cancel it even if you only get 2 ticks off. However, I usually get 3, since it actually has an incredible 360 degree radius I generally get most of it off unless the person is actually running away from me as I'm casting it.

 

Honestly, I used to think it sucked before I understood it, now that I understand it I realize it's actually quite amazing yet very situational.

 

Also, if you take it off your toolbar because YOU can't figure out how to use it...don't come complaining on the forums about it.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Elaithe

[Atamosk]

i love master strike, but i agree it is very situational. I usually use it in pvp and from the look of it it hits pretty hard. altho we cant really know if it is a hinderence on dps or not without testing like crazy, yet i digress

 

would the vigilance tree benefit from some alacrity?

 

this is probably stupid to even think about but if it that important to the spec then would getting its channel down to a second make it better.?

 

has anyone tried this just for fun?

[Atamasama]

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that you don't have to let the whole thing go off if they walk away, my bad...oh wait..you can cancel it even if you only get 2 ticks off. However, I usually get 3, since it actually has an incredible 360 degree radius I generally get most of it off unless the person is actually running away from me as I'm casting it.

You do realize that the 3 ticks don't do the same DPS, right? The third does a lot more than the first two. If you're only getting off two ticks, it's a waste of time. If you can get off all three, though, it's decent DPS. The question is whether or not the time it takes for all three is worth it. I've found, as I've gotten higher up, that with my spec, and the number of other abilities I have, that it isn't. That doesn't make it a trash skill, but it doesn't work for me.

 

Also, if you take it off your toolbar because YOU can't figure out how to use it...don't come complaining on the forums about it.

Because I came onto the boards specifically to complain about Master Strike, didn't I. I didn't find a thread titled "Is it me or Is Master Strike pretty usless?" where someone specifically asked others for their opinions, and where I dared to venture an answer. An answer that you disagree with and therefore need to attack me for. I apologize for offending you with my opinion, and will take great care in the future so as not to incur your wrath.

 

PS: You might notice that my first post in this thread was defending the usefulness of the ability, and disagreeing that it was useless. But despite that, it seems I fail to share your zeal and therefore deserve to chastised.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Atamasama

[CapuchinSeven]

Yet another bunch of posts from people not understanding or using Master Strike in PVP properly but moaning that it's useless.

 

Jessh, a 700DPS skill that costs zero focus and you can't work out where to use it or at what time and moan about it. The ONLY thing I'd like added to Master Strike is for it to generate focus like Stasis.

[Joskara]

Is it just me or does the damage still trigger many times even if you are not in melee range? Just as long as you are in range when you tigger the attack.

 

05:44 in this video. Could be he has a DoT on him...

 

[CapuchinSeven]

Is it just me or does the damage still trigger many times even if you are not in melee range? Just as long as you are in range when you tigger the attack.

 

05:44 in this video. Could be he has a DoT on him...

 

 

If you're out of range for the final tick then it won't hit you, but MS is 360 and allows some range after you've fired it so talents that add to the immobilisation of Force Leap or give you stuns because when timed right the final second that they start moving again still leaves them hit.

 

So they can move away from it if they are free to move unhindered and out of range, it's funny when they come out of a stun or root and move towards you to get away.

 

It's a hard hitting ability that costs us zero focus to use, it's perfect when used correctly and the people that moan about it are trying to use it all the time every time. It's also white damage so hits very hard on soft classes.

[iNcEpXn]

My issue lies with Zen Strike (the tier 6 Vigilance talent). The talent allows two of the three highest priority abilities to reset the CD on Master Strike. Why would this be considered useful? Master Strike is so situational as is, but for Vigilance guardians, its so low on the priority list that you wouldn't use it twice within 30 seconds of rotation anyway, even when the encounter permits it. I think this talent should in some other way buff Master Strike, perhaps by giving it a large %crit increase for 10 seconds after Zen Strike procs. Just my thoughts, as I feel tier 6 talents shouldn't be as mathematically worthless as Zen Strike currently is (or at least seems to be, correct me if I am actually mistaken). Edited January 27, 2012 by iNcEpXn

[CapuchinSeven]

My issue lies with Zen Strike (the teir 6 Vigilance talent). The talent allows two of the three highest priority abilities to reset the CD on Master Strike. Why would this be considered useful? Master Strike is so situational as is, but for Vigilance guardians, its so low on the priority list that you wouldn't use it twice within 30 seconds of rotation anyway, even when the encounter permits it. I think this talent should in some other way buff Master Strike, perhaps by giving it a large %crit increase for 10 seconds after Zen Strike procs. Just my thoughts, as I feel tier 6 talents shouldn't be as mathematically worthless as Zen Strike currently is (or at least seems to be, correct me if I am actually mistaken).

 

After everything I said above, I still do agree with what you said. Master Strike is fine, that talent, in that tree, that high, really needs looking at.

Edited January 27, 2012 by CapuchinSeven

[Skraylok]

I honestly love master strike.

As a level 41 vig guardian. I don't have many abilities that push much dps. As somebody said, its an opportunistic strike, but you always have the opportunity against melee. There is no required LOS and the range once the channel is started is quite forgiving.