Why is the squishiest class in the game also the least mobile?

[Daecollo]

You would think as a Gunslinger with the worst armor in the game and some of the least Crowd Control and the least defenses (Deployable Cover=Temporary Defense that you cannot stay in, in any situtation because you will die.) would have the best mobility.

 

It would be nice to get a passive 30% run speed buff.

[Lerdoc]

2 words.

Dirty Fighting.

[Daecollo]

2 words.

Dirty Fighting.

 

Why not just go Ops and do the same thing except have double the damage?

[StealthNerf]

How is an operative (burst melee class) the same thing as a 30 meter range DoT class?

[Alistain]

This is the SAME Daecollo that has complained numerous times on the Vanguard forums.

 

My god man, does any class appeal to you?

[Ravzar]

The problem with dirty fighting is that you're still the worst RDPS in the game (commandos and sages are better) and while you're probably the most mobile you now don't do any burst. You still need to enter cover for your burst. The dot spec just does not work against good players. The cleanses in this game are insane... 4.5s cd and removes to effects. If someone uses a cleanse once that's your 2 DF dots gone (the cleanse may remove other effects though if they are present, so may be luck of the draw).

[Mcfree]

Lol at saying Slingers are less mobile than commandos/mercs...even sages/inq is a strech.

After 50 i rerolled a slinger because of the horrible movement restrictions of gunnery. O yea and Slingers also do considerably more single-target damage than commandos also.

 

By far one of the if not THE most mobile 35 range class in the game.

[Alistain]

The problem with dirty fighting is that you're still the worst RDPS in the game (commandos and sages are better) and while you're probably the most mobile you now don't do any burst. You still need to enter cover for your burst. The dot spec just does not work against good players. The cleanses in this game are insane... 4.5s cd and removes to effects. If someone uses a cleanse once that's your 2 DF dots gone (the cleanse may remove other effects though if they are present, so may be luck of the draw).

 

Highly exaggerated in my opinion. Dirty Fighting is a fantastic tree and it isn't difficult to throw up a second Vital Shot if the first was cleansed out. The cooldown on Shrap Bomb sucks but that's part of the 'Rock-Paper-Scissors' game that is PvP.

 

In my experience, when someone is being focused they will have a massive amount of dots/slows/effects on their character that reduces the chances of your two bleeds being removed by cleanse. To add to this, not all "good" players cleanse much akin to not all "bad" players don't even have cleanse on their bars. To argue that is just silly.

 

And how is a 2 bleed Wounding Shots not bursty? How is utilizing Speed Shot while your dots tick away not overwhelming to some players? I think you should state that something is "in your opinion" before you go about spreading nonsense on public forums. The last thing we as a community need is more of this silliness going around.

 

Dirty Fighting is an excellent tree -they all are- and should continue to be such. I'm incredibly mobile yet still have the option to warp speed roll into cover for a good defensive effort.

[dcgregorya]

Couple of things:

 

1) Sages really shouldn't get a speed buff like force speed. They're ranged to 30m and can cover ground very quickly, GS are ranged to 35m and move very very slowly. This, is dumb. Either sages shouldn't have it, range should get buffed for GS or GS should also get some sort of move buff.

 

2) The cover system right now is more of a penalty than a benefit because of how the warzone maps are built in relation to range from cover and how they relate to actual paths people take in the game. When you add that onto being able to be pseudo-CC'd with roots not letting you take cover and the delays getting into and out of cover you see the issues with cover not providing enough benefit for the massive hindrances. In this sense, I guess you should ask whether stock GS are so drastically better than commando and sage that they need a balancing/gating mechanism in the form of the cover system and honestly I'd say it's the exact opposite.

Edited January 29, 2012 by dcgregorya

[Mcfree]

I agree with the above poster about the movement buff from Sages/Sorcs. Overall I think our passive stationary cover survivability somewhat makes up for that. Sages and Sorcs really are incredibly squish and usually should be a good players first target so they kinda need the speed boost for an escape mechanism. I do agree in its current form its way to powerful.

 

Couldn't agree more about the second point....cover is great when it works right and a hinderance whe it doesnt.

[Comieb]

It does seem that Sages/Sorcs get all of the utility and none of the drawbacks, whereas we seem to have none of the utility and all of the drawbacks.

 

However i feel our 'big bonus' of 35m isn't really worth anything considering that 5 extra meters are negated in one or two steps forward.

 

Im starting to wonder if they were to have their range reduced by a bit more it would be an easy way to balance them with all their other abilities.

[Mcfree]

I honestly think we have more utility then any of the ranged dps. Sure Sages can heal but if dps specced shouldn't be and if they are its pretty ineffective. Besides healing isn't as strong in pvp here as in other games.

 

Gunslinger CC is very strong...it has helped me save myself and teamates numerous times.

[flem]

1) Sages really shouldn't get a speed buff like force speed.

You've never entered a warzone as a Sage, I take it.

 

It's like wearing a giant "FOCUS ME FIRST" sign on your head the *entire* time. Seriously.

Edited January 29, 2012 by flem

[dcgregorya]

You've never entered a warzone as a Sage, I take it.

 

It's like wearing a giant "FOCUS ME FIRST" sign on your head the *entire* time. Seriously.

 

And this is different than gunslingers how? Your light armor? Yes I've played a sage. No it is not harder than a gunslinger. No you don't get attacked any more regularly than anyone else other than maybe full on tanks.

Edited January 30, 2012 by dcgregorya

[Mcfree]

He's refering to the fact that good players will always target a sage first because they might be heal specced. And yea if you have a choice you should be targetting a sage/sorc first in most pvp situations.

[Talon_Starfire]

Slingers should get a in combat Sprint for our version of Force Speed.

Thanks

[Metalmac]

You've never entered a warzone as a Sage, I take it.

 

It's like wearing a giant "FOCUS ME FIRST" sign on your head the *entire* time. Seriously.

 

LOL pop out of Stealth for 10 seconds as a Smuggler and watch as 5 guys go straight for you.

 

Sorry you are full of crap, I watch them run from Sorc all the time as they can stun you and out run you.

 

A Sorc is only squishy if I get the jump on you and only then. They nerfed that so no counter.

 

This is exactly why the nerf bat is headed your way, they nerfed the only counter class.

[Mcfree]

Sorcs can't run far from 35 meter range, very easy to out range them. And if your running from sorcs your bad...that's what they want.

[Whyld]

Requiring cover to do our dps is the worst class design choice in the game. Remove it as a requirement and we might be a feasible class. As it is now any gunslinger is just valor food as are snipers. Keep the mechanic for extra defense but take away the requirement so we can actually pvp please.

 

If I had known as a slinger I would have to be nailed to the floor to dps I would never have rolled this class.

[Dadaluma]

How can you with a straight face say we are squishy? When you hunker down + the other defensive CD:s popped you can take alot of beating during that time, if you also got a healer on you just sit there and pop of one after another.

 

I love the way Gunslingers are now and wouldnt change it for the world, lets just hope they dont listen to your whine and remove cover, I love it!

[Tatermitts]

How can you with a straight face say we are squishy? When you hunker down + the other defensive CD:s popped you can take alot of beating during that time, if you also got a healer on you just sit there and pop of one after another.

 

I love the way Gunslingers are now and wouldnt change it for the world, lets just hope they dont listen to your whine and remove cover, I love it!

 

One hundred percent agree. I always crush face in PVP and PVE as a sharpshooter spec. I am always behind cover. After the learning curve (which may be steep), the class plays extremely well.

[Umbradomina]

My biggest complaint about playing a GS are:

 

• Lack of real "viable" cover in Civil War WZ, so I'm pretty much fully exposed when in crouch. Real cover in Huttball and Voidstar is readily available in most areas.
  
• LoS: This bugs the hell out of me. I'm in Ilum (for example), and getting hit by players that I can see, target but can't hit myself. I get on the stairways at the Republican Base, have lots of players in range, drop into crouch, pull the trigger and "can't see target". Not being able to drop Fly-By from places like that should be also be addressed, as that's exactly where it should be able to be used.
  
• Terminal cc-lock: My pet peeve. Age of Conan did it right when they gave you a 20s immunity from cc after you had been cc'd (assuming you survived the 1st one). I die most often when chain cc'd. Unable to do dick (move, cleanse crouch... anything), I just count the seconds til dead. THAT makes me nuts.
  

 

Could we be a little faster? Would be nice. Are there other things that could make the class a little more fun to play? Absolutely, but am not going to QQ about all of them here, since nothing will be done. I'm just doing the best I can with the tools they gave me.

 

I seldom top the charts in WZs for damage, kills or medals... though I'm usually in the top 2-3 of the Republican side. Topping the charts seldom wins matches, but teamwork and support often does.

[goskins]

People who are supporting cover and saying gunslinger isnt underpowered are full of **** or barely pvp with their class or still under 50.

 

I'm valor 50+, 500+ exp, full champ on helm of gruash as a slinger.

 

My aimed shot does equal dmg to a tracer missle with a 1 second higher cast time and a cooldown, and less dmg than a force lightning.

 

Hunkerdown is a terribly circumstantial move since u get LOSed all day on high-cast time "burst" moves.

 

Any mobility with sabo/DF htbrids take 50+ energy to get off a single combo.

 

Our "great" cc has some of the highest resolve gains in the game. Dirty Kick gives 80% resolve as well as flashbang.

 

There is absolutly no reason to play a GS over a sage, who can outdmg, out utility a slinger.

 

I can play my slinger well and am always carry my own on WZ, but if i were a sage with similar gear I would dominate not just carry my own.

[dcgregorya]

There is absolutly no reason to play a GS over a sage, who can outdmg, out utility a slinger.

 

Something is wrong with your build or rotation because I can kill a sage with equal gear in one rotation FULL rotation using my relic and interrupting their healing cleanse and much faster if they are madness spec'd. The only stupid thing about sages is that they should not have force speed. I can't CC a sage at all and I have to be lucky to not be channeling when they turn to run or they can just leave at will while I cannot do the same in reverse thanks to their channeled slow and force speed.

Edited February 1, 2012 by dcgregorya

[dcgregorya]

Sorcs can't run far from 35 meter range, very easy to out range them. And if your running from sorcs your bad...that's what they want.

 

Their range is 30 meters and our CC and leg shot are both only 30 meters. What are you smoking? Unless the sage runs up to me for a kiss they can get away at will.