Are factions going to get balanced (numbers)?

[salvadorellama]

I love these threads. Do you want BioWare to prevent people from making Imp toons and force faction changes?

 

What is this "Republic heavy server" of which you speak?

 

Let me try to explain how the bonus system could be implemented and work, a little better.

 

A faction census is done daily when the daily quests reset. For your character to contribute to your factions census, you must not have logged on an opposing faction character for 3 days. On days that the factions are reasonably balanced, there is no bonus for that day.

 

Bonuses would not be anything game breaking, merely things that would encourage people to switch sides. Ideas suggested, but not limited to...

1. 10% bonus to credits earned

2. 5% bonus to non PVP damage and damage mitigated.

3. 10% bonus to crafting criticals (e.g. creating multiple items or mastercrafted items).

4. 5% bonus to movement speed.

 

The list goes on. Just little things that would give people playing the underdogs a reason to stay. Sure the Imperials would cry outrage, but it's not game breaking at all. Imperials still have it easier in getting groups together for Ilum, Operations, and heroic conetent simply because they have a larger player base.

 

Edit: All replies while I was explaining how the bonus system would work, and work well, should read this. It's calculated daily and takes 3 days for your character to count. This is how you prevent people from faction jumping...

Edited January 26, 2012 by salvadorellama

[Acesome]

The most effective way to balance faction is with the introduction of a new player race.

 

As witnessed by WoW, the introduction of Blood Elves cause the faction imbalances to almost shift in the opposite direction. It's a simple fix, an effective fix and one I'm almost positive will be overlooked.

 

Sadly Dev's like to package new races with expansions, they have to give the low level subs a reason to drop 60 bucks on the new material....So I don't see a fix anytime in the immedite future but yeah I think adding a new race exclusive to the Republic faction would probably do the trick...

[ThiborF]

That's why it would take 3 days without switching sides for you to contribute to your factions bonus.

 

It's a similiar idea used in old MUDDs to great effect.

 

As far as bonuses...addition crit chances on crafting (craft multiple items on a single attempt, more mastercrafted items, etc.) to add items to the GTN, additional damage bonuses to help in FP's and Operations,...the list goes on. All they have to do is write some code (code that was used in MUDDs...it wouldn't be that complicated).

 

Face it...if something doesn't change all the money and time they invested in producing this game will be wasted in just a few months. Why let the game fail when they have it in their power to at least try something?

 

If they don't acknowledge and try to correct the problem, everyone will just migrate to the Imperial side for a time before eventually get bored and cancelling.

 

The problem I see with your solution is the legacy system. They designed it such that your legacy name carries through to all characters on that account on that server, regardless of faction. By them giving such a bonus they're saying "Hey, we know we made this game with the idea and hope you'd play lots of alts but, we don't want you playing those alts when you want to."

 

If the legacy system had been designed to give your name (and future bonuses) to just your characters on that server of the same faction, it wouldn't be an issue. I don't see them reversing that choice hence I don't see your idea getting implemented in the way you've described.

 

Perhaps bonuses could be offered in another fashion, I don't know.

Selective server transfers for whole guilds might be possible (ie. they comb through their metrics and see who has been PvPing and see if their guild would be willing to get migrated)

Server mergers of opposing mis-matched faction ones to try and offset it is another idea.

 

However, if we're talking just individuals queuing up for PvP and they're on a PvP server, perhaps it's a more general indication that the idea of being allowed to have characters of both factions on the same server is NOT a good idea since you find (seemingly) more people wanting to play with the more heavily populated side.

[ChicksDigHarleys]

Let me try to explain how the bonus system could be implemented and work, a little better.

 

A faction census is done daily when the daily quests reset. For your character to contribute to your factions census, you must not have logged on an opposing faction character for 3 days. On days that the factions are reasonably balanced, there is no bonus for that day.

 

Bonuses would not be anything game breaking, merely things that would encourage people to switch sides. Ideas suggested, but not limited to...

1. 10% bonus to credits earned

2. 5% bonus to non PVP damage and damage mitigated.

3. 10% bonus to crafting criticals (e.g. creating multiple items or mastercrafted items).

4. 5% bonus to movement speed.

 

The list goes on. Just little things that would give people playing the underdogs a reason to stay. Sure the Imperials would cry outrage, but it's not game breaking at all. Imperials still have it easier in getting groups together for Ilum, Operations, and heroic conetent simply because they have a larger player base.

 

Edit: All replies while I was explaining how the bonus system would work, and work well, should read this. It's calculated daily and takes 3 days for your character to count. This is how you prevent people from faction jumping...

 

If you had quoted my whole post, you would have seen Mythic did some of these things and other things to encourage people to jump to lower populated realms. It didn't work so hot. The only idea I've seen that I think will work is adding a couple popular races to the Republic...just please no Wookiees, for the love of God.

 

You couldn't have paid me to roll a hippy Hibernian in DAoC. I just hated the look of the realm and most of the races. There was nothing they could have offered to get me to roll there...not even a free subscription. Let's face it...Empire is just aesthetically more pleasing and more interesting. BTW I already play primarily Republic, so I'm not part of the problem.

[Lexster]

I dont see how incentives are all that useful really. It may help a person level up faster, but the vast majority of the game is at the cap, so the bonus quickly becomes worthless. Would that be enough to convince people to leave a character they already have gotten to max level/valor/crafting and also have established a good friend/guild relationship? I doubt it would be enough to balance things out, but you may get a few people. Worse, I could see people using the bonus just to see the story but not really play the lower populated side other than as a single player game. Edited January 26, 2012 by Lexster

[Elysion]

i played republic some, but then went back to empire after alderaan.

 

I think a comparison between the empire and republic fleet VIP areas perfectly summarizes the problem.

[ebenezar]

My republic toons are on the Defenestrator server where there are never more than 15-20 people on at a time (this is clearly a super low pop server).

 

I just started a with warrior on Gardens of Talis (something like that) and there are 80-100 people on, even during the day!

 

With that said, I will be leveling my Sith, simply because I can team up. Yesterday, I was on my Consular in Balmorra and there were only 3 of us there, we couldn't even do the 4 man heroics!

 

As far as the stories go, I think both sides are cool, its just that the fact you can earn the title Darth and shoot lightning out of your hands makes the Empire way better. I mean, my consular shoots pebbles at people while an inquisitor shoots lightning? Who the F thought that would go over well? Fing pebbles for s***'s sake!

 

You want the Republic to be equal, then it has to be cool. The Only way is for something drastic like playing a Wookiee or Yoda. Do you remember when Yoda took it to Dark Sidious, hopping around, whirling, jacking that old man up? That would be cool. That would make people want to play Republic. Being a 7 foot sniper that can punch peoples face off would be cool too. Close your eyes and imagine playing a Wookiee Trooper. Cool, right?

 

Please forgive me if I quoted the wrong movie or name, but you know what I mean, right?

 

Also, I get it that what I bring up isnt easy to do, but hell, they have been making this game for 4 years, you tellling me they don't have the 'skins' and voice actors for it? Don't they already have both races as quest givers and such? My guess is this may be even easier to implement than we think.

 

Lets all just pray that the Legacy races/classes are cool enough to build up the republic!

 

Great post, OP, I like the way peeps are being constructive and not flaming.

[Arkerus]

Bioware cannot force faction balances.

I don't understand why this idea gets brought up so often.

 

 

Yes, they can offer incentives but if people refuse to play the other side, a server will always be imbalanced.

 

The only thing they can do is CAP a server faction. However, that will have severe implications of groups, friends, new players, etc.

[salvadorellama]

Bioware cannot force faction balances.

I don't understand why this idea gets brought up so often.

 

 

Yes, they can offer incentives but if people refuse to play the other side, a server will always be imbalanced.

 

The only thing they can do is CAP a server faction. However, that will have severe implications of groups, friends, new players, etc.

 

This thread is not about forcing anyone to play anything. This thread is about BW acknowleding the problems and the community offering ideas to help balance the faction imbalance so the game doesn't fall apart.

 

Any constructive ideas should be posted. I've given mine, others are welcome.

[Goreson]

I rarely bother posting in the cesspit that is the forums anymore, but surely BW has noticed that subs are falling off and few new ones are coming in to take their place.

 

I like the game, and I don't plan on quitting, but I get on my Imp toon and there's 200 people in the fleet, lots of stuff for sale on the GTN, and WZ's are so numerous we have to play each other in Huttball.

 

I'd rather play my Republic toons, but with the numbers so skewed, there's really no point. The above reasons are only the beginning.

 

Is anything going to be done or is this just going to be a Empire/Sith game?

 

Anyone posting without constructive feedback will be reported for violation of TOS. Don't waste your time denying this isn't a problem, it is.

 

Just throw out some bonuses to the faction that is badly outnumbered....for you to help your faction get these bonuses, you'd be required not to log in onto an opposing faction character for, say, three days. Bonuses to help the economy, drops, PvP costs, etc. When the factions are more balanced, turn off the bonuses...if they unbalanced again, turn them back on.

 

I want to see the game succeed and I'd like to be a long term subscriber, but things are going to have to change guys. I hope you devs can see this. I don't even have access to your data and I can see it just from logging in the different factions and looking at numbers on the fleet on a couple of different servers.

 

You have years developing this game, I'd hate to see it go the way of so many failed MMO's just because you won't figure out a way to balance the factions.

 

Should I mark my reply with [troll]? Hm...

 

Okay, your first paragraph... SWTOR was brand new released 38 days ago (not counting early access). Of course there was a huge flood (as with many MMOs) and then numbers fell because the first (free) 30 days are up (as with many MMOs).

 

So your 'subscriptions are falling off' is perfectly natural unless you run some MMO that only requires a subscription after the box included free time is up. I'm pretty sure BW is not sitting there a panic-y because it looks like they'll be running out of subscribers in a few weeks/months.

 

Now, on to the issue at hand:

 

Rep vs Imp

 

You, dear salvadorellama, are part of the problem!

 

You said it yourself: you log into Imp, there are 200 ppl, you log into Rep, there ain't...

 

Guess what: if you had stayed on Rep there would have been more Reps than before!

 

It's like being at the movies and asking the girl at the box office which screen has the most tickets sold and then picking that flick despite not really liking that movie in the first place.

 

How is that 'underdog' movie you like supposed to become a blockbuster if you not only not go and watch it but actually boost another movie?

 

But right, let's talk basics: being bad is cool - don't really agree with that but I will soon create 2 Imp characters (after playing 5 Rep characters) simply because I need to see some other quests!

 

And frankly, I think this will also happen on Imp side: you have played all the Imp classses, there is no point of really making another imp and chasing him thru the same hoops again... hey, wait, there is Rep! Let's give that a try!

 

It all comes down to personal choice. Which apparently you understand... good... yet you still want BW to hand out that little bit of sugar to make Rep look so much more tasty.

 

Posters here have pointed to DAoC and said that Mythic boosted realms by giving out favors to the underdogs on a server.

 

True... and yet completely pointless in regards to SWTOR!

 

DAoC has something called Realm vs Realm (RvR), SWTOR has faction based Player vs Player (PvP).

 

Imagine a realm of 5 people standing opposed by a realm of 500 people staring at each other. There is a bit of a problem here.

 

Now imagine said 500 realmers standing opposed 5 gods of war (i.e. members of an exceptionally bosted realm). Now ya talking... or rather: stop talking and let the realms clash!

 

But in SWTOR?

 

Let Reps make more money! Let them get more XP! Let them craft faster! Make the loading screens load faster!

 

Seriously?

 

Already making enough money with the Smuggler im currently actively levelling.

 

Yes, more XP... so that the Rep character is quicker Lvl 50 and you can start an Imp!

 

Yeah, because crafting already takes forever... not!

 

Frankly, all it takes is for people to communicate.

 

My smugglers (now on my second one) are by far my favs as far as having fun: perfect oneliners, great fun using their abilities, and yes, the storyline also isn't bad.

 

I asked other gamers who also played the smuggler and are now playing on Empire side if there's a character that's as cool as the smuggler and they could only think of the bounty hunter...

 

So that means the 2 coolest dogs in SWTOR are evenly spread, 1 in each faction.

 

Now you may feel that another Rep character is much cooler. Potentially confirm yourself that there is a character just as cool on the Imp side or ask someone who played your cool character and is now Imping to confirm it.

 

And then spread the word: 'Hey, yo, Imp BH player, you like your character? What do you like about him? Hm... you know the smuggler is just like that. Have you played him? Nope? Man, you got to!' and already you may have one more guy on Rep side (and in turn one less on Imp!)

 

It is the same as with trying to get new players to play SWTOR in the first place: you try to sell it to them.

 

But here instead you try to sell Imp players the Rep side.

 

And if you can't do that, sorry, then you don't really stand behind it... and if you can't stand behind it, heck, why should other people? So all you could do is point out to BW what could permanently improved on Rep side.

 

Simple, isn't it?

[/troll]

 

My republic toons are on the Defenestrator server where there are never more than 15-20 people on at a time (this is clearly a super low pop server).

 

I just started a with warrior on Gardens of Talis (something like that) and there are 80-100 people on, even during the day!

 

Wait, let me get this straight: you went from being Rep on a PvE server with overall light population to being Imp on a PvP server? Right...

 

Ever checked what the number of Imps is on your PvE server? I haven't, and I won't... but it's a bit like saying that those green apples are sweeter than the red ones if all you've done is tated your own red one and the green one from your neighbor's tree but not your own green one.

 

As far as the stories go, I think both sides are cool, its just that the fact you can earn the title Darth and shoot lightning out of your hands makes the Empire way better. I mean, my consular shoots pebbles at people while an inquisitor shoots lightning? Who the F thought that would go over well? Fing pebbles for s***'s sake!

 

*cough*Ever seen a droid being tossed at an opponent? Ever seen a guy kick the opponent in the nuts? Well, try doing this as Imp!*cough*

 

You want the Republic to be equal, then it has to be cool. The Only way is for something drastic like playing a Wookiee or Yoda. Do you remember when Yoda took it to Dark Sidious, hopping around, whirling, jacking that old man up? That would be cool. That would make people want to play Republic. Being a 7 foot sniper that can punch peoples face off would be cool too. Close your eyes and imagine playing a Wookiee Trooper.

 

Argh... oh heavens!

 

Right, in case you haven't noticed but all the player classes are identical as far as stats and abilities go.

 

On both sides!

 

So having a (visual) Wookiee or a (visual) Yoda-like race on Rep side would do nothing to make Reps more powerful, it would just be a simple matter of 'hey, look, I look like a Wookiee' but not like 'hey, I punch like a Wookiee'... that aside: Trooper and sniper? Right...

 

Pretty much what you are asking for (or suggesting in order to make Rep 'cooler') is to a) include characters sort of like the ones from the movies by b) giving the Rep completely new races (with stat modifications) and new classes?

 

Well, yes, I guess if Rep side had a Scout trooper who can go stealth while wearing heavy armor and can use 'only' las pistol and vibroblade (but really well), that may attract a few Imps over to Rep.

 

But then again, if Imps actually had Darth Vader's helmet (which I don't think they have), hey, people may just flock over to Imp!

 

It's not about BW having to make Rep more attractive to gamers, it's about (Rep) players having to make Rep side more attractive to Imp players.

 

Because it's not that bad is cool... good, bad, on Rep side you have the guy with the best lines!

 

Honestly, the largest number of complaints I see floating around various class forums, is how awful the armor sets look for the republic side... namely jedi consular and knight. If you have some time, look at the end game PVE raid gear and PVP gear, it's absolutely atrocious. ...

 

Empire Gets:

Cooler Animations

Purple Lightsabers (who the hell isnt crying about wanting one of these?)

Better looking armor

Better looking special effects

Better story (trust me, play both sides)

 

Bioware played favorites and its biting them in the ***..... They know how to fix it.

 

Yes, well, it's all in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?

 

Guess what: around Lvl 16 or so as loot I got both Jedi robes and 'skirt' for my first smuggler. Both light armor bits were about 20 to 40 points below the medium smuggler armor I was wearing.

 

I put the Jedi clothes on and ran for about 4 lvl with them!

 

Simply because I liked their look more than what I had on the smuggler side. And yes, I did so accepting that my character is not as well protected as he could be. But he looked cool!

 

Frankly, I've not had more issues with clothes looking bad on Rep side than I would expect from other MMOs. But hey, maybe even to my eye all the Imp clothes will look funky... though I keep seeing people asking for actual cool uniforms for their IA...?

 

And thanks but no thanks, not really keen on a purple (or pink) lightsaber...

[salvadorellama]

Should I mark my reply with [troll]? Hm...

 

...

 

...

 

Learn to summarize. Any point you may have been trying to make got lost after the first couple of sentences.

[GarbonzotheDude]

Really free server transfers and some honest numbers made available on current players actually playing would work for me.

 

That way I could transfer my toon to a server that has a viable player base to group and interact with.

 

If that was made available chances are I would probably play my Republic character again. Until then...just not worth the frustration.

 

Honestly though, the longer they put it off or this problem persists the less chance there is of me doing that no matter what they do. I'm rather enjoying my characters on the Imperial side and meeting loads of people to group and enjoy the game with. So it gets to a point that regardless what they do why would I want to go back?

Edited January 26, 2012 by GarbonzotheDude

[Eria]

They need to work on making republic more attractive. Eventually, things may even out. For example, on my server, Republic is pretty out numbered, but stomps Empire in Warzones. We're already seeing people switch sides in hopes of "easy wins"...which is funny, because those people are generally the the reason why their faction gets stomped.

 

Not sure how some servers are in terms of finding groups and what not, but I could see that as a problem.I started a republic character a few weeks back, and my friend doesn't want to play there because he's afraid he won't be able to find people to do stuff with. Eventually they will merge servers as the populations dwindle down...we can only hope they do so in a reasonable way.

 

The other problem is that you can have different faction characters on the same server. This makes it too easy for people to switch sides, instead of being forced to stay with their faction. For example...if on a server Republic is out numbered and always gets stomped, people can just go make an empire toon and switch. If they enforced that all your characters on a server had to be the same faction, people would think twice about switching sides, as they would need to possibly delete a high level character to do so. Humans want the path of least resistance, and often go with the "can't beat em, join em" mentality.

[salvadorellama]

Really free server transfers and some honest numbers made available on current players actually playing would work for me.

 

That way I could transfer my toon to a server that has a viable player base to group and interact with.

 

If that wasw made avialble chances are I would probably play my Republic character again. Until then...just not worth the frustration.

 

Honestly though the longer they put it off or this problem persists the less chance there is of me doing that no matter what they do. I'm rather enjoying my characters on the Imperial side and meeting loads of people to group and enjoy the game with. So it gets to a point that regardless what they do why would I want to go back?

 

Exactly. They need to admit there's a problem and fix it before it's too late.

 

When enough people start playing Imperial just to have people to play with (nevermind what stuff looks like for now), they're not going to want to go back.

[ndruo]

If you want to be Republic, play Republic. If you want to be Sith, play Sith.

 

You assume that Sith PUGs are going to be more effective/successful in battlegrounds. That's not the case. Sith PUGs are just as stupid and disorganized as Republic PUGs because they're PUGs.

 

If you want effective, organized PVP, then join a PVP guild and get in on the premades. You're getting steamrolled because Sith has more premades floating around in WZs, but for whatever reason have yet to find or build a regular premade PVP group on Republic side.

[Blotter]

Give the Republic lpayable wookies and be done with it. If that doesn't fix it, nothing will.

 

That is all.

[GarbonzotheDude]

If you want to be Republic, play Republic. If you want to be Sith, play Sith.

 

You assume that Sith PUGs are going to be more effective/successful in battlegrounds. That's not the case. Sith PUGs are just as stupid and disorganized as Republic PUGs because they're PUGs.

 

If you want effective, organized PVP, then join a PVP guild and get in on the premades. You're getting steamrolled because Sith has more premades floating around in WZs, but for whatever reason have yet to find or build a regular premade PVP group on Republic side.

 

I can't comment on PvP because I haven't done any in this game.

 

From a PvE standpoint it make a huge difference. On some of these servers the population is so low it is incredibly difficult to form a group to accomplish much of anything in their faction. There simply aren't enough players around.

 

So it isn't as simple as just play what you want. Regardless your personal choice if there aren't enough players to support the type of gameplay you enjoy it becomes an issue.

[PlacidDragon]

I find the whole situation kind of funny as in all the polls done prior to launch, while there was a slight empire bias, it was only like 55 - 45 percent or maybe 60 - 40 on some.

 

Where did all those people who voted Republic go ? Someone started crying "imbalance", and they collectively jumped ship over to the Empire side ?

 

Yeah, thats definitely the way to fix the problem...lol

[Goreson]

...

 

Learn to summarize. Any point you may have been trying to make got lost after the first couple of sentences.

 

Okay, a summary just for you:

 

Don't whine about the 'problem', resolve the 'problem'.

 

You can actually do it yourself!

 

Short enough?

 

For an explantion of how to do it, please feel free to either read my post or buy my book which I'll sell you for only $79.95.

[GarbonzotheDude]

I find the whole situation kind of funny as in all the polls done prior to launch, while there was a slight empire bias, it was only like 55 - 45 percent or maybe 60 - 40 on some.

 

Where did all those people who voted Republic go ? Someone started crying "imbalance", and they collectively jumped ship over to the Empire side ?

 

Yeah, thats definitely the way to fix the problem...lol

 

Actually I was playing Republic. I jumped over to Empire after spending all day trying to find a group became a regular occurrence and instead of planets having 20-40 people it dwindled down to 10-20 and the fleet was fortunate to have 30+ on it during primetime.

 

Why go through all that hassle when I can play Empire and find a group whenever I like? Had nothing to do with what anyone else said. Had to do with my own in game experiences.

[salvadorellama]

Okay, a summary just for you:

 

Don't whine about the 'problem', resolve the 'problem'.

 

You can actually do it yourself!

 

Short enough?

 

For an explantion of how to do it, please feel free to either read my post or buy my book which I'll sell you for only $79.95.

 

Go get a dictionary and look up the definition of "discuss" and then look up the definition of "whine". This forum and this thread is for discussion. No one is whining.

[Goreson]

Go get a dictionary and look up the definition of "discuss" and then look up the definition of "whine". This forum and this thread is for discussion. No one is whining.

 

Oh yeah, wait, whiners never whine, they always make a 'statement' in order to have it 'discussed'...

 

Like:

 

I rarely bother posting in the cesspit that is the forums anymore ... I get on my Imp toon and there's 200 people in the fleet, lots of stuff for sale on the GTN, and WZ's are so numerous we have to play each other in Huttball.

 

I'd rather play my Republic toons, but with the numbers so skewed, there's really no point. The above reasons are only the beginning.

 

...

 

Anyone posting without constructive feedback will be reported for violation of TOS. Don't waste your time denying this isn't a problem, it is.

 

Doesn't at all sound like someone whining...

[MrTijger]

I find the whole situation kind of funny as in all the polls done prior to launch, while there was a slight empire bias, it was only like 55 - 45 percent or maybe 60 - 40 on some.

 

Where did all those people who voted Republic go ? Someone started crying "imbalance", and they collectively jumped ship over to the Empire side ?

 

Yeah, thats definitely the way to fix the problem...lol

 

They're still there, problem is it seems that many of the Republic players dont PvP, even on balanced servers they report that the Imperials are by far the majority in PvP.

[Urliq]

If you want to be Republic, play Republic. If you want to be Sith, play Sith.

 

You assume that Sith PUGs are going to be more effective/successful in battlegrounds. That's not the case. Sith PUGs are just as stupid and disorganized as Republic PUGs because they're PUGs.

 

If you want effective, organized PVP, then join a PVP guild and get in on the premades. You're getting steamrolled because Sith has more premades floating around in WZs, but for whatever reason have yet to find or build a regular premade PVP group on Republic side.

 

While this isn't a horrible argument when it comes to PVP, it totally fails in the realm of PVE. My main is a gunslinger and I'm on a heavy population server yet still can rarely find groups for HM FPs. I'm now leveling an empire toon on the same server because of this. There are constantly people looking for more for HM FPs on the fleet on empire side. It's just too frustrating to have a 50 character that I can't find anything to do with besides PVP, so the only way to have fun seems to be jumping ship to the Empire.

[Meiu]

That's why it would take 3 days without switching sides for you to contribute to your factions bonus.

 

It's a similiar idea used in old MUDDs to great effect.

 

As far as bonuses...addition crit chances on crafting (craft multiple items on a single attempt, more mastercrafted items, etc.) to add items to the GTN, additional damage bonuses to help in FP's and Operations,...the list goes on. All they have to do is write some code (code that was used in MUDDs...it wouldn't be that complicated).

 

Face it...if something doesn't change all the money and time they invested in producing this game will be wasted in just a few months. Why let the game fail when they have it in their power to at least try something?

 

If they don't acknowledge and try to correct the problem, everyone will just migrate to the Imperial side for a time before eventually get bored and cancelling.

 

The game isn't going to fail over that. Get over yourself.