aalllttt Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Not sure I understand the problem here with the sniper/gunslinger since in my case is the worst class to face with my sith juggernaut. Snipers/gunslingers can crit hit me for 4k, I cant force charge them when they are in cover and running up to them while the shoot at me will end with me having half my life gone or more. If I get to them they have a def boost while in cover and an aoe pushback that roots me in place and yet again I cannot force charge them and I have to run up to them and by that point I am certainly dead if I havent popped every CD (1)I got plus health kit. I consider a good played sniper/gunslinger to be one of the best classes out there at least I know a few players that can play them good. I just know if a sniper/gunslinger starts aiming at me from a distance I got 5-10 seconds to run or die.. Oh and not to mention the kick to the nuts.. Edited February 26, 2012 by aalllttt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTifer Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 You don't get it, probably because your Sniper is level 38 so I'll use the l2p argument you and others are spouting, get to 50. L2P is for people who say it's unplayable. And if I'm not mistaken, the guy who started this thread said he was 31. So which is it? It's obvious at 31 or only becomes clear at 50? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakesMcQueen Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 You don't get it, probably because your Sniper is level 38 so I'll use the l2p argument you and others are spouting, get to 50. Anyway, I have no issues bringing in damage, kills or killing blows. It's the fact that the other ranged "hybrid" classes do it just as well while bringing more to the group. We can only do damage, they can do everything but while they are doing everything they do damage just as well as our damage only class. On top of that, we have things that are dependent on the cover system which really gain no benefit from being in the cover system except for it taking more time for us to use said abilities, which in pvp sometimes is too long. Cover is more of a burden than a help. It's a crappy mechanic that does hurt us more than anything. So if you l2p noobs think cover is fine as well, then I'll just stop here since this is a conversation that obviously isn't going anywhere... You're being too myopic in looking at our class. We have 20 seconds of CC/Knockback invulnerability we can activate every 45 seconds. Our cover gives us armor and damage reduction bonuses (that could be better admittedly). We can pop a ballistic shield in combat that, if used properly, can swing a fight in WZ's like Civil War and Voidstar. Depending on how you spec and gear, we've got the best burst DPS in the game against medium and light armor wearers - great for quickly burning down healers before they know what is happening. Our utility in huttball could be made better by addressing some of the points I made on the previous page, but I really think you're overestimating our lack of use in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delease Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Actually sniper is the most balanced class in the game. Just so happens that most the other classes are outrageously out of balance compared to us lol. What this class lacks is CC that doesn't break instantly on damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbel Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Our cover gives us armor and damage reduction bonuses (that could be better admittedly). Just to clarify, cover gives us 20% ranged defense. It also gives us immunity to charges, pulls, and interrupts. No armor, no melee/tech/force avoidance. Edited February 27, 2012 by Tibbel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakesMcQueen Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Just to clarify, cover gives us 20% ranged defense. It also gives us immunity to charges, pulls, and interrupts. No armor, no melee/tech/force avoidance. Yeah, that 20% defense bonus is what I meant by armor bonus. Should have been clearer, but I couldn't remember the exact nature of it at the time I wrote that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arylia Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 This video of me playing Marksmanship Sniper in PvP says otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfeld Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Not sure I understand the problem here with the sniper/gunslinger since in my case is the worst class to face with my sith juggernaut. Snipers/gunslingers can crit hit me for 4k, I cant force charge them when they are in cover and running up to them while the shoot at me will end with me having half my life gone or more. If I get to them they have a def boost while in cover and an aoe pushback that roots me in place and yet again I cannot force charge them and I have to run up to them and by that point I am certainly dead if I havent popped every CD (1)I got plus health kit. I consider a good played sniper/gunslinger to be one of the best classes out there at least I know a few players that can play them good. I just know if a sniper/gunslinger starts aiming at me from a distance I got 5-10 seconds to run or die.. Oh and not to mention the kick to the nuts.. 1. Saber Ward 2. Force Choke 3. Force Push -> Force Charge 4. Line of sight These are all ways that a Sith Warrior can completely neuter a Sniper/Gunslinger's damage output. Choke/Push won't work against a player who knows when to use Entrench, but Ward and abusing LoS still royally screw any marksman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfeld Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 This video of me playing Marksmanship Sniper in PvP says otherwise. You mean a video of you getting completely ignored for most of the match, then getting your *** pulled out of the fire by the healers every time somebody took a swing at you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambz Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) im a gunslinger and im a beast, btw marksman sux for pvp tanks will poop on u. play dirtyfighting shred tanks Edited February 27, 2012 by Lambz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralidyn Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 post a video of a sniper owning in PvP post 1.1 or I would even take a screenshot of the post game stats. If you can do this I will admit I was wrong. I would love to do this however, i have look over the internet for the last two hours and there is nothing for snipers. I get killed by snipers a lot. The ones that hang out at a distance and then pick you off when you're trying to heal up. You could be right but I get killed by them if they're smart about how they play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfeld Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I get killed by snipers a lot. The ones that hang out at a distance and then pick you off when you're trying to heal up. You could be right but I get killed by them if they're smart about how they play. "Snipers are fine when they're being completely ignored and pick off targets that are already at half health" isn't exactly a great argument for them being fine. If they were glass cannons that reigned supreme in overall damage, that would be one thing. But it's not uncommon to see their damage rivaled by any other class, their primary damage has to go through multiple types of defense that other classes completely bypass, and they're one of the least survivable on top of it. They're not horrendous, and they could really shine with just a couple small tweaks, but the fact stands that they're highly dependent on being left alone for extended periods of time to really be of any use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakesMcQueen Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 "Snipers are fine when they're being completely ignored and pick off targets that are already at half health" isn't exactly a great argument for them being fine. If they were glass cannons that reigned supreme in overall damage, that would be one thing. But it's not uncommon to see their damage rivaled by any other class, their primary damage has to go through multiple types of defense that other classes completely bypass, and they're one of the least survivable on top of it. They're not horrendous, and they could really shine with just a couple small tweaks, but the fact stands that they're highly dependent on being left alone for extended periods of time to really be of any use. I think giving snipers a passive cloaking ability when in cover and out of combat would be a great help, and a great idea. It would let us play sniper more like... a sniper. Pick a spot, wait for the best opportunity, and then take your shot. And it would give us a precious few seconds to fire off some shots before people realize where we are and come after us - then we do what a sniper should do; pop some crowd control, and get out of there. I don't think we need to have "supreme" DPS capabilities over all others, because we aren't the only class that could be considered a glass cannon. Pretty much any high DPS/light armor class can fit that bill. If a Jedi Shadow takes his shot and blows it against me, I can waste him in a matter of seconds. I do agree with you that some of our abilities need to be able to bypass more armor checks, so we hit harder than a gnat against heavies. That is one area where I will agree our damage capabilites are blunted compared to most other DPS classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arylia Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 You mean a video of you getting completely ignored for most of the match, then getting your *** pulled out of the fire by the healers every time somebody took a swing at you? Thats how it is every match for me. But just because I got healed doesn't mean my damage would be any less. As a sniper you should be AWAY from the action, thats where I was, and thats why I was ignored. Also, I was only healed at the second door. ****wit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arylia Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 "Snipers are fine when they're being completely ignored and pick off targets that are already at half health" isn't exactly a great argument for them being fine. If they were glass cannons that reigned supreme in overall damage, that would be one thing. But it's not uncommon to see their damage rivaled by any other class, their primary damage has to go through multiple types of defense that other classes completely bypass, and they're one of the least survivable on top of it. They're not horrendous, and they could really shine with just a couple small tweaks, but the fact stands that they're highly dependent on being left alone for extended periods of time to really be of any use. LOL I get top 3 DPS every match, you're just one of those ******* who finds an excuse even when the evidence is right in front of you. I was hitting 3k-2k dmg every single hit on most of my targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfeld Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Thats how it is every match for me. But just because I got healed doesn't mean my damage would be any less. As a sniper you should be AWAY from the action, thats where I was, and thats why I was ignored. Also, I was only healed at the second door. ****wit. I'm glad you're mature enough to have a civil discussion without resorting to call people names. Whether I'm playing my Merc or my Sniper, I always get top 5 damage if I'm left alone. Of course you're supposed to stay out of the middle of combat, that's a given. But the fact that the morons on the other team just let you plink away doesn't make you good, or the AC good. It just means that you got to sit still and do uninterrupted damage for the entire fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiChess Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) post a video of a sniper owning in PvP post 1.1 or I would even take a screenshot of the post game stats. If you can do this I will admit I was wrong. I would love to do this however, i have look over the internet for the last two hours and there is nothing for snipers. http://i.imgur.com/BZivz.jpg Pretty standard for me. Nuff said. Edited February 27, 2012 by RiChess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caveslug Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 http://i.imgur.com/BZivz.jpg Pretty standard for me. Nuff said. 1-49 WZ's are not the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiChess Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 1-49 WZ's are not the issue. So the issue being that snipers own in 1-49, then suck when they hit 50? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mBass Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 So the issue being that snipers own in 1-49, then suck when they hit 50? I don't think so. You will soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiChess Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 You will soon enough. Crap. I was pleased with the highest DPS output of any class I've played, and I assumed it wouldn't vanish with 1 lvl change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mBass Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Crap. I was pleased with the highest DPS output of any class I've played, and I assumed it wouldn't vanish with 1 lvl change. Basically, everyone's defense gets much more effective than your offense at 50. You go from being a glass cannon to a glass free kill. You *can* regain much of that ground with gear, but other classes with the same level of gear will be doing just as much damage and be harder to kill. That said, at least it never gets boring. I often wonder what kind of person could find satisfaction in spamming tracer missile for 60+ valor levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakesMcQueen Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) So the issue being that snipers own in 1-49, then suck when they hit 50? I don't think so. They don't suck, but I can attest that it's a very different experience until you make some adjustments. Destroying people in the 10-49 bracket is easier, because you're playing people who are often missing core talents, aren't familiar with PvP, and don't have the kind of armor and damage mitigation that comes with wearing full epic gear - many wearing Champion or even Battlemaster PvP gear. I would routinely get 40-50 kills as a sniper in 10-49, but when I first hit 50 I got destroyed for a while - until I worked to acquire better gear, and changed some of my lazy habits acquired from days of ganking lvl 13 Sith Sorcerers who don't even have enough talent points to call themselves a particular "spec" yet. If you do the dailies and weeklies to get gear, and learn from your early experiences as a lvl 50 PvP sniper (which will be pretty bad), you will eventually get back to roughly where you were in the 10-49 bracket, if not better. Edited February 27, 2012 by ShakesMcQueen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iehnbjirsmniyn Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I have a level 50 mercenary tracer spam spec adn a sniper in the low 30s mm spec From my experience my mercenary has less survivability than my sniper. Heavy armour and jet boost vs cover pulse, leg shot, flashbang, damage reduction in cover through talents, distraction. As for damage. Both seem to have a similar amount of burst potential. Ambush+followthrough ~ tracer+ buffed heatseeker missile although mercenary pyrotechs will have higher burst than snipers (but pyrotech doesn't synergise as well with mercenaries so i don't like the trade off just to have a higher burst) Snipers can switch targets readily without having to nerf their burst mercenary will have a burst nerf for switching targets. Mercenaries seem to be able to unload more single target damage in a short period tracer spam > snipe spam and heatseeker missile = 1.5s ambush = 2.5s heatseeker missile ~ ambush (the crits r similar however ambush hits harder) Mercenaries are more mobile than snipers which can be huge in pvp Conclusion: Mercenaries have similar damage to snipers with the main difference being that mercenaries trade survivability for better mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntyzor Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Having a 50operative, 32Merc, 33Sorc, 21 Sith Assassin, 31 Sniper I can say with near certainy that this is the worse class in SWTOR: I will not commit on the warrior class b/c I don't play one 'nough said, thread ended before it actually started. Epic wrong is epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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