Sogui Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) http://i.imgur.com/AubIC.jpg I played Warhammer heavily and was the highest PvP rank on my server for a few months, yet the Bright Wizard community was in EXTREME denial about the power of their class. They would throw massive hissy fits anytime anyone suggested that they needed to be toned down. The sage/sorc mirror here isn't as bad as the Bright Wizards are, but it's pretty obvious they offer a "better package" than almost any other class in this game, they have versatility in spec and yet have no problem pumping out more damage than even a "pure" DPS class like me (Gunslinger) while dropping 10-40k heals when the pressure is on. They dont need any major nerfs, but toning them down is practically common sense at this point. Yes this is a pre-50 bracket but I think it's hugely indicative of what's coming to the endgame if Bioware doesn't do something about this class. Edit: I completely expect Sorc/Sage rage in this thread. Bright Wizards were also completely enraged about any suggestion that they be nerfed, despite the fact they were literally the most broken class I've ever seen in 14+ years of MMORPGs. Edited January 25, 2012 by Sogui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyu Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 http://i.imgur.com/AubIC.jpg while dropping 10-40k heals when the pressure is on. . no. try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalnar Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 no. try again. I would love your response on a screen where there is only inqisitards present Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoL-K-Noob Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) These threads about DPS spec'd sage/sorc outhealing dmg comming in is BS. As a fully spec'd Sage healer with 501 expertise I get dropped in seconds and cant out damage 2 people on me. No way a 3 SECOND heal that heals for 2k outheals damage comming in. Edited January 25, 2012 by LoL-K-Noob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sickboy_ Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 http://i.imgur.com/AubIC.jpg I played Warhammer heavily and was the highest PvP rank on my server for a few months, yet the Bright Wizard community was in EXTREME denial about the power of their class. They would throw massive hissy fits anytime anyone suggested that they needed to be toned down. The sage/sorc mirror here isn't as bad as the Bright Wizards are, but it's pretty obvious they offer a "better package" than almost any other class in this game, they have versatility in spec and yet have no problem pumping out more damage than even a "pure" DPS class like me (Gunslinger) while dropping 10-40k heals when the pressure is on. They dont need any major nerfs, but toning them down is practically common sense at this point. Yes this is a pre-50 bracket but I think it's hugely indicative of what's coming to the endgame if Bioware doesn't do something about this class. Prot pally healers in WoW, death knights in early WOTLK, frost mages during the past 3 years, ect, act(ed) exactly the same way. It stems from the fact that they know they're overpowered and gamebreaking, and want to continue being OP. They're like the kid that says "rock paper grenade" during rock paper scissors, so that they always win. To them it doesnt matter if they win via a cheap exploit and broken mechanics, or actual skill, winning is everything even if they have to cheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilvreen Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 sorry , i dont remember my slow boil (word of pain) ever critting for 4k+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talizzar Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 BW's were a blast to play. One or two could hold off an entire army with a healer or two behind them. Then they made the short little tanks nearly invinsible. Warhammer failed terribly at any balance other than maybe levels 1-20. 1-10 being the most pvp fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 have no problem pumping out more damage than even a "pure" DPS class like me (Gunslinger) Playing gunslinger wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaid Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Yes. This does remind me of bright wizards and of early vanilla rogues. A lot of classes are in denial about what IS overpowered and what is NOT overpowered. This goes even for people trying to get the classes nerfed. It's somewhat amusing. But honestly? I think maybe people need to just sit back, relax, and let everyone get geared up so we can really see what's what when rateds hit. Balance really doesn't matter that much in pugs, it DOES matter in rateds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSteebin Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 We need a nerf. Not a huge one, but we should have to sacrifice some damage to have the cc we have. We can't outheal damage specced as a dps. That's bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ururururu Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) sorry , i dont remember my slow boil (word of pain) ever critting for 4k+ guess you played before the mirror & nerf.. it used to hit . edit : man the graphics sucked in warhammer.. thought I remembered them as being better... Edited January 25, 2012 by ururururu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donlep Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 i get repeatedly hit for higher numbers than i can dish out consitently, sure we have some AE dmg that boost our dmg #'s, but AE is not what kills people, singletarget burst does that and imho were not even close to the top of the pack in that regard sure we have CC which i would gladly give up, i only specced into it because i couldnt find anything else to boost my dmg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjetl Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 What I find hilarious is the SS that shows these "OP" sorcs doing meh damage, and low heals, and killing at a ~2:1 kills to death ratio... I play with a gunslinger that does 300-399k in warzones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallensbane Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 http://i.imgur.com/AubIC.jpg I played Warhammer heavily and was the highest PvP rank on my server for a few months, yet the Bright Wizard community was in EXTREME denial about the power of their class. They would throw massive hissy fits anytime anyone suggested that they needed to be toned down. The sage/sorc mirror here isn't as bad as the Bright Wizards are, but it's pretty obvious they offer a "better package" than almost any other class in this game, they have versatility in spec and yet have no problem pumping out more damage than even a "pure" DPS class like me (Gunslinger) while dropping 10-40k heals when the pressure is on. They dont need any major nerfs, but toning them down is practically common sense at this point. Yes this is a pre-50 bracket but I think it's hugely indicative of what's coming to the endgame if Bioware doesn't do something about this class. Edit: I completely expect Sorc/Sage rage in this thread. Bright Wizards were also completely enraged about any suggestion that they be nerfed, despite the fact they were literally the most broken class I've ever seen in 14+ years of MMORPGs. As a former Warhammer player (I left when it became obvious they didn't give a crap about magus and wanted to buff BW into heaven) I agree that pvp in this game is meh. Don't get me wrong, its fun, but its like a three step back scenario s far as the way it works goes. The system is clearly based on warhammer design (didnt BW absorb pvp devs from war from this) but it has none of the improvements.... They should really look back imo at the way open pvp captures were done in warhammer (needing to guard a spot for x amount of time) as well as implement a underdog system to promote rolling of repubs (helped alot ifc in war) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golarz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The sage/sorc mirror here isn't as bad as the Bright Wizards are, but it's pretty obvious they offer a "better package" than almost any other class in this game, they have versatility in spec and yet have no problem pumping out more damage than even a "pure" DPS class like me (Gunslinger) while dropping 10-40k heals when the pressure is on. They don't have "better" package, they are just most fun to play compared to one button bouty hunter, "kill in 5 seconds" operatives and "i have to look all the time on my quicslot bars" warriors. And those heals come from dot's healing them for 0,5-1% of their max hp. Sure it looks like a lot at the end, but it changes nothing during the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaskil Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 guess you played before the mirror & nerf.. it used to hit . edit : man the graphics sucked in warhammer.. thought I remembered them as being better... The guy in that youtube video is playing on low settings =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talizzar Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 It was fun to watch people kill themselves in War....WE's were great fun too until nerfed. I think they ended up nerfing everything and everyone over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSteebin Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) sure we have CC which i would gladly give up, i only specced into it because i couldnt find anything else to boost my dmg I think it would make more sense to have sages/sorcs as heavy cc classes instead of heavy dps. More variety between classes imo. Not that we are THAT heavy in dps, but a slight tuning down wouldn't hurt. Edited January 25, 2012 by MrSteebin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akyio Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I see no problem being as a HEALER sage, and getting no medals for it, except times when I pull a lot of heal and my team nominates me more than anybody else. As a Sage i see that i have too much CC and if I put my talents on telekinetics and balance i can get ridiculous amount of CC.. I mean even now, as a healer.. I have stun, i have 2 slows, i have knockback, i have lift, i have force speed.. this is way too much CC. But every class here has too much CC. When it comes to PvP and pure dmg sorcs/sages it comes to the fact that they do a lot of damage from RANGE, they have a lot of CC to stop threat approaching them, and when its needed they can heal quickly, especially with their 20% alacrity skill. So too versatile, same like scoundrel, operative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinden Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 As a former Warhammer player (I left when it became obvious they didn't give a crap about magus and wanted to buff BW into heaven) I agree that pvp in this game is meh. Don't get me wrong, its fun, but its like a three step back scenario s far as the way it works goes. The system is clearly based on warhammer design (didnt BW absorb pvp devs from war from this) but it has none of the improvements.... They should really look back imo at the way open pvp captures were done in warhammer (needing to guard a spot for x amount of time) as well as implement a underdog system to promote rolling of repubs (helped alot ifc in war) Agree with the underdog system, it should realy help the population imbalance in Ilum. I would love to see the war cc system also which rather than this we have here actually worked No chainstuns, chainroots knockbacks that would be great... I'm trying to find the old screenshot where we went against 11(obviously not op) BW in tier 3 sc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimism Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I see no problem being as a HEALER sage, and getting no medals for it, except times when I pull a lot of heal and my team nominates me more than anybody else. As a Sage i see that i have too much CC and if I put my talents on telekinetics and balance i can get ridiculous amount of CC.. I mean even now, as a healer.. I have stun, i have 2 slows, i have knockback, i have lift, i have force speed.. this is way too much CC. But every class here has too much CC. When it comes to PvP and pure dmg sorcs/sages it comes to the fact that they do a lot of damage from RANGE, they have a lot of CC to stop threat approaching them, and when its needed they can heal quickly, especially with their 20% alacrity skill. So too versatile, same like scoundrel, operative. Wait what? Operative healers only have a 4 second stun and a flashbang. not to mention a slow that requires us to be in melee range. I'll gladly trade any of this for your damage as a healer, mobility, defensive cooldowns, durability, knockback or versatility. I'll even give you our cloak for free. We got a deal? Wonderful no trade backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambert Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 This picture says nothing other than the SI (Sorc AND Sin) is a heavy populated class. The class quest is one of the best and you get lightsabers - thats why a lot of people will be choosing it. The only thing that screenshot shows is a bunch of SI who are pumping out poor damage. Also, your complaining about GS DPS in Warzones, lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kckkryptonite Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Gabe just REALLY LIKES caster classes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broom Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I had 50s both Order AND destro side, and I spent almost all my play time in PVP. I agree with the OP to some extent: Bright Wizards were very OP, AS WERE THEIR MIRRORS. Many a seige, my KOTBS or Chosen (tanks) would suddenly stand in a puddle of death, and melt in LITERALLY seconds. I experience some of the same in this game, on my Trooper and BH (both tank specced). Still, I'd prefer it if any nerfs were based on solid data, like total damage output, kills compared to other classes, win/loss ratios for having a certain amount of sorcs on both sides. I'm getting this sinking feeling recent nerfs were gut-feeling-based, not data based, and that's usually a PVP killer. Edited January 25, 2012 by Broom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokai Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 what your seeing is called damage padding... here is basically what is happening and why sorcs feel so broek when look at the charts... 1: dot spam=huge numbers at end of battle 2: when deal enough damage(only like 20% of health) you get a kill credit even if you didnt deal killing blow... 3:dots=hp its a small amount but when you have 2 dots running on 2 or 3 people it adds up... effectively what people are seeing is sorcs spamming dots, and assisst killing but really not major killers in pvp. 9/10 if a sorc killed you 1 vs 1 you were half dead to begin with, didnt focs them or, were over geared because a good melee can shut us down easy and NO way we are casting our main heal before we get interupted trust me i try it all the time! i rarely if ever can pull it off...because majority of players know what an interrupt is! btw is me sprinting away and using line of sight to! sorc/sage are not heavy hitters people killing you are ops/gun slingers, merc/commandos, and maurders/sentinels most of the time we just kill assist and take credit for there hard work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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