Gaurdian : Best PVP Burst

[Wheresthemilk]

after the operative nerf happens, we will now officially be the best burst class in the game.

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/Jackman1118/Screenshot_2012-01-23_22_08_25_736436.jpg

 

This is after the 50 bracket was implemented, no way to prove it but you will have to take my word and look at when the screenshot was taken in the img link. Imagine this followed by a 4k blade storm, with a 2k force exhaustion final tick all lined up.

 

Can we stop the qq about how we cant do damage in pvp? switch to focus. I've even included my hotbar and key bindings (no matter how noobish they may be).

[Ethias]

shh you're going to get us nerfed

[Wheresthemilk]

shh you're going to get us nerfed

 

I mean honestly, we kind of need it. With operative being nerfed to pieces we will be hands down the best pvp class in the game. We stunlock single targets + our burst is aoe and equals operative opener?

 

c'mon.

[VotamNau]

Don't listen to the OP.

[JackSmoke]

Jimmeny Chricket - How the heck did you do a 7k hit?

 

I'm currently leveling my Guardian because I already have a Sentinel and don't like the double lightsaber swingy swingy action.

But if you don't mind, I'd like to know what kind of Focus spec you have.

 

Not to copy it, but to understand how you did so well.

I'm currently leveling with Vigilance but it kind of feels sluggish if you catch my drift.

 

Thank you and good game,

 

JackSmoke

 

P.S.: Would you think that Focus is also reliable for leveling?

Edited January 24, 2012 by JackSmoke

[Herew]

We stunlock single targets

 

How do you stunlock someone in the Focus spec? Also I'm curious what gear you are in?(or the stats you have to be more precise)

 

Ps: Someone should try testing what happens if you are taunted and then force sweep the taunter and a second target. Would be interesting to see if the second target would take the 30% reduced damage. (Would assume so, but you never know).

Edited January 24, 2012 by Herew

[Jasonpm]

Its done the same way you would try a big hit on the sentinel , only in the vigilance tree we have a talent(3 points) to increase sweep by 30% damage, using adrenals and relic bonuses(and getting a bit lucky i guess) can get you those big hits. I am not a fan of the pure focus build, though im yet to reach 50 - it just feels a bit like a one trick pony

[bamsmacked]

after the operative nerf happens, we will now officially be the best burst class in the game.

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/Jackman1118/Screenshot_2012-01-23_22_08_25_736436.jpg

 

This is after the 50 bracket was implemented, no way to prove it but you will have to take my word and look at when the screenshot was taken in the img link. Imagine this followed by a 4k blade storm, with a 2k force exhaustion final tick all lined up.

 

Can we stop the qq about how we cant do damage in pvp? switch to focus. I've even included my hotbar and key bindings (no matter how noobish they may be).

 

Hate to break it to you but something is wrong with the Jedi Knight class in general when the shared tree between them is superior to the 3 unique damage trees.

 

The class needs a over hall and the unique damage tree to the Guardians and Sentinel need to be looked at.

 

Not all of us want to be in the 2-button pony tree just to win in pvp, and no I'm not trying to offend I'm just stating a fact. Sure you may root, and taunt but the attack rotations are pretty much revolved building up ticks with stasis and then sweeping someones head off with a 100% chance to crit and 100% dmg increase.

 

Now I'm not crying for a nerf in the focus tree, I'm just suggesting the Vigilance and 2 damage spec (Combat and Watchman - as well as the Sith counterparts) in the Sentinel tree be looked at because the Focus tree clearly out does all 3 of them in PvP by a large, shows something is wrong with the class.

 

Finally if the other damage trees aren't looked at and balanced out to compete and actually do "damage" then every single Sentinel and Guardian will have the same if not similar, focus spec. And then the game will be like WoW.

 

Example the Rogue class. If you're not subtlety specced you suck in PvP. Period. Every Rogue that PvPs and wants to be good is subtlety.

Edited January 24, 2012 by bamsmacked

[FinDevil]

I dont really care, i absolutely destroy your class in pvp with my shadow.

[yeielskedei]

I see what u mean, once you gear up our burst becomes quite valueable and arguably the best. That it is AOE realy makes it shine. Against multiple melees you're often in the situation that after dispatching one of them the others arround you are below half health. Which can lead to you actualy beeing able to solo mutliple enemys.

 

I do think though that we are justified to have such damage, here are the reasons why I think so

 

- We are melee, whilst we have gap closers, ranged have many (some even have 2 knochbakcs) gapmakers, so a 100 % uptime is never achieved whereas any ranged should be able to have near a 100 % damage uptime on you, the ocasional interrupt taking from that. The design of the most played Map, huttball, which therefor is the major factor for performance strongly favors ranged once more since a knockback wont only knock you 10 meters away but most of the time a rather long walk, all allong you get damaged from ranged.

 

- In the momentary form of 8 v 8 PVP people gang up against melee a lot. It's only a natural reaction that when someone jumps into your face you feel he's the biggest threat leading to us beeing focus fired even by random people in groups without any coordination whatsoever

 

- Though we wear heavy armor our survivability is, in said damage spec, pretty bad since we get focused and atacked from range with a lot of damage ignoring our 10- 15 % damage migation headstart on medium and light armor wearers.

 

- Most other classes have min 1 stun, we don't, force choke is not a real stun for it takes us out of the fight as well, in a 1 v 1 situation you only gain the damage of the ticks ahead of your enemy or against a dot class using forcechoke even puts you behind them in damage since their dots ticked harder than your choke, in 2 v 1 (you beeing one) force choke also is a bad choice since you take 1 out of the equation whilst the other is battering you down. All these deficits don't apply to normal stuns which are ALLWAYS beneficial (unless you wanna keep resolve low)

 

These are the main points why in my eyes if they are anywhere near potent developpers we will not see a nerf in our damage. It would had to be paired with strong defensive buffs or mobility, allowing us near 100 % uptime. Since we are not there all the time we should be able to make it count when we are.

 

My 2 cents

[Everness]

after the operative nerf happens, we will now officially be the best burst class in the game.

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/Jackman1118/Screenshot_2012-01-23_22_08_25_736436.jpg

 

This is after the 50 bracket was implemented, no way to prove it but you will have to take my word and look at when the screenshot was taken in the img link. Imagine this followed by a 4k blade storm, with a 2k force exhaustion final tick all lined up.

 

Can we stop the qq about how we cant do damage in pvp? switch to focus. I've even included my hotbar and key bindings (no matter how noobish they may be).

 

You dont have the abilities "Strike" and "Slash" in ur hotbars, dont u use them ever?

Edited January 24, 2012 by Everness

[Ethias]

You dont have the abilities "Strike" and "Slash" in ur hotbars, dont u use them ever?

 

he has both of them keybound, check the right bar.

[aleiro]

Jimmeny Chricket - How the heck did you do a 7k hit?

 

I'm currently leveling my Guardian because I already have a Sentinel and don't like the double lightsaber swingy swingy action.

But if you don't mind, I'd like to know what kind of Focus spec you have.

 

Not to copy it, but to understand how you did so well.

I'm currently leveling with Vigilance but it kind of feels sluggish if you catch my drift.

 

Thank you and good game,

 

JackSmoke

 

P.S.: Would you think that Focus is also reliable for leveling?

 

Of course it is mate, after you get force exhaustion you go in put it on 1 target , wait 4 seconds force sweep and go to the next group. it's utterly awesome.

[aleiro]

The focus tree is fine, they need to boost the vigilance tree since it is trash.

[Wheresthemilk]

You dont have the abilities "Strike" and "Slash" in ur hotbars, dont u use them ever?

 

no I do not use them ever. I also dont use master strike.

 

they are on my right bar for pve which I do once in a blue moon.

[Helig]

Jimmeny Chricket - How the heck did you do a 7k hit?

 

P.S.: Would you think that Focus is also reliable for leveling?

 

A lot of Expertise, Surge relic+PvP adrenal on a low-Expertise target. That happens once in 5 minutes on the right target.

 

The focus tree is fine, they need to boost the vigilance tree since it is trash.

I actually think that Vigilance is amazing after you get some decent gear. It's also an excellent teamplayer.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Helig

[aleiro]

I actually think that Focus is amazing after you get some decent gear. It's also an excellent teamplayer.

 

Maybe you meant vigilance?

 

Still you don't deal nearly as much damage as with focus tree, it can use some DoT damamge improvement since 200 over 6 seconds just makes me laugh....

[Helig]

Maybe you meant vigilance?

 

Still you don't deal nearly as much damage as with focus tree, it can use some DoT damamge improvement since 200 over 6 seconds just makes me laugh....

 

Yeah, mistype.

 

And yeah, those DoTs need to scale *way* better.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Helig

[Everness]

In focus bombing spec, when in shi-cho form, do u guys wear shield or focus generator as offhand? or u just always wear shield in every form in pvp?

[Blurps]

In focus bombing spec, when in shi-cho form, do u guys wear shield or focus generator as offhand? or u just always wear shield in every form in pvp?

 

Why on earth would you want to wear a shield in a pure DPS spec ?

[Wheresthemilk]

In focus bombing spec, when in shi-cho form, do u guys wear shield or focus generator as offhand? or u just always wear shield in every form in pvp?

 

I actually used the shield while using champion gear, but the battlemaster focus is much better than the shield for pvp.

 

the champion shield has about 60 more endurance on it, so thats roughly 600hp more by using the shield.

 

Another thing, I have about 88% surge (very easy to get), 4/5 of my main slots have surge in them, and then I have the battlemaster stuff with surge on it as well.

 

surge > all other stats up to about 94% I think

Edited January 24, 2012 by Wheresthemilk

[Diamaht]

I mean honestly, we kind of need it. With operative being nerfed to pieces we will be hands down the best pvp class in the game. We stunlock single targets + our burst is aoe and equals operative opener?

 

c'mon.

 

With gap closing and the amount of cc that can get deployed against I think we are ok. Also I notice there are no protections points there at all. If you are a tank you will see those numbers drop dramatically.

 

We should have the best burst damage imo since we are melee, but a shadow or assassin will still own you.

[Modru]

yeaaaaaaaaa....

 

 

about 6-7 seconds minimum of ramp up up time then over 20 seconds of downtime before you can do your next big hit.

 

congrats you can do about 10k damage (counting some of the ramp up abilities here) every 20+ seconds with about 6 seconds worth of work.

 

 

now consider this.......... a merc bounty hunter using only tracer missile spam..........ONLY TRACER Missile will toss out about the SAME damage in about the same amount of time.

 

and thats ONLY if they use ONE button.

 

the caveat is that a merc is doing single target damage (oh but do they have aoe, most definitely).

 

 

and about 7k of the guardians damage was aoe........yes. but now you have downtime and it will be some time before you can do that big hit again.

 

 

the bounty hunter just keeps on tracerin. again one button. im not even getting into their aoe's or that they might be doing some healing/defensive stuff to.

 

 

id also like to point out the obvious........if we were that damn op everyone and their mother would be screaming for nerfs. *crickets*

 

ya thats what i thought notice how the majority of the population calls for buffs to guardians and juggs?

 

if you take one thing away from my post it needs to be this.

 

you can't take things out of context when looking at balance. its like looking at a 1000 piece jiggsaw puzzle. you see 1 piece and think to yourself........i don't believe this piece fits with this puzzle.

 

if you make your judgement call based off that one piece and throw it away.......guess what happens? once the other 999 pieces all come together your going to realize your missing a piece and that your puzzle is now flawed.

 

alternatively your initial judgement could have been right............but you won't know without the other 999 pieces.

[Wheresthemilk]

yeaaaaaaaaa....

 

 

about 6-7 seconds minimum of ramp up up time then over 20 seconds of downtime before you can do your next big hit.

 

congrats you can do about 10k damage (counting some of the ramp up abilities here) every 20+ seconds with about 6 seconds worth of work.

 

 

now consider this.......... a merc bounty hunter using only tracer missile spam..........ONLY TRACER Missile will toss out about the SAME damage in about the same amount of time.

 

and thats ONLY if they use ONE button.

 

the caveat is that a merc is doing single target damage (oh but do they have aoe, most definitely).

 

 

and about 7k of the guardians damage was aoe........yes. but now you have downtime and it will be some time before you can do that big hit again.

 

 

the bounty hunter just keeps on tracerin. again one button. im not even getting into their aoe's or that they might be doing some healing/defensive stuff to.

 

 

id also like to point out the obvious........if we were that damn op everyone and their mother would be screaming for nerfs. *crickets*

 

ya thats what i thought notice how the majority of the population calls for buffs to guardians and juggs?

 

if you take one thing away from my post it needs to be this.

 

you can't take things out of context when looking at balance. its like looking at a 1000 piece jiggsaw puzzle. you see 1 piece and think to yourself........i don't believe this piece fits with this puzzle.

 

if you make your judgement call based off that one piece and throw it away.......guess what happens? once the other 999 pieces all come together your going to realize your missing a piece and that your puzzle is now flawed.

 

alternatively your initial judgement could have been right............but you won't know without the other 999 pieces.

 

 

if by every 20 you mean every 9 seconds... and bounty hunters / troopers can be stopped with a interrupt, or los. Same as we can be pushed back or whatever, except our skill cant be locked out.

 

Then you add in its aoe every 9 seconds that easily equals 3-4 tracer missles...

 

and our "buildup" is a crapton of damage in itself. What other class has a 4k damage stun? If stasis crits 4 times its almost 5k for me right now, and I have very high force crit chance.

 

but I could go with some gaurdian buffs, it would obviously make me ever better.

 

also I know I had no protection (lazy taunting on my part) but we won 6-0 so I didnt feel like try harding. I actually stumbled upon that 7k crit by just farming them..

 

I can easily get 40k protection with just taunts and still be top dps. No need to be a tank spec unless you are carrying the ball in huttball.

[truevalon]

if by every 20 you mean every 9 seconds... and bounty hunters / troopers can be stopped with a interrupt, or los. Same as we can be pushed back or whatever, except our skill cant be locked out.

 

Then you add in its aoe every 9 seconds that easily equals 3-4 tracer missles...

 

and our "buildup" is a crapton of damage in itself. What other class has a 4k damage stun? If stasis crits 4 times its almost 5k for me right now, and I have very high force crit chance.

 

but I could go with some gaurdian buffs, it would obviously make me ever better.

 

also I know I had no protection (lazy taunting on my part) but we won 6-0 so I didnt feel like try harding. I actually stumbled upon that 7k crit by just farming them..

 

I can easily get 40k protection with just taunts and still be top dps. No need to be a tank spec unless you are carrying the ball in huttball.

 

I believe he means every 18th and 50th second as you depend on getting 4 singularity stacks for that really good burst.

 

Also I'd like to see you actually screenshot those numbers against pvp geared oponents as I desided to try out Focus today and rarely broke 4.5k Force Sweep crits.