Posixgod Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 As my last post was flagged by a vast majority of you (how surprising), I decided to create a new post, one that touches on the communities opinion of specific classes being overpowered. This is intended to be a constructive conversation on class dynamics and I intend to keep this post as positive as humanly possible. Before you judge the intention of this post, please read it until the end. Before I start, for those of you who didn't read my last post, I'm a Sith Inquisitor Sorcerer, I'm level 32, have geared my character appropriately and currently am using the following spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201hZf00MZcMfRsMkrfz.1 In my own experience in the PVE world, I find myself able to solo most elite / strong mobs that are my level and feel that gearing your companion is severely underrated and somewhat non-intuitive for players. Unfortunately though, I'm not here to discuss PVE as I primarily PVP, at each level I acquire, I'm always maxed at the most possible valor I'm able to attain. Currently capped @ 32 (Gladiator), I feel I've had enough experience with a vast majority of other classes to provide the following factual information on my own personal experience. This may not apply to all, but it's not intended to, this is from my perspective and I'd expect / hope that others will share their own experiences in this thread. On the Sorcerer end, I feel we're a "One hitter quitter" class of sorts in PVP. I say this due to the lack of damage mitigation, sustained damage and wet paper bag armor. I'm in no way complaining about this in any way shape or form as I've had to adopt my play style / gear and spec appropriately to be effective against other ranged classes. Melee tends to be more of an annoyance to me but isn't my sole focus in PVP. As with any other ranged class, being at RANGE is always important, I believe it's often situational as other classes have abilities to Pull, push you into groups of others but as a ranged class, you're expected to kite other players as much as possible, keep DOT's up, AOE, etc. The discrepancy here for my class is that a good portion of you feel the Sorcerer class has too much Utility, IE: Stun Knockback (Required to be spec'd into), Long range burst damage, a shield that lacks a longer CD that absorbs a vast amount of damage, Stuns, etc. I'm not necessarily disagreeing that the Sorc class is a viable class to play in PVP, what I am however suggesting is that, a lot of other classes, ranged included, have similar utility to counter said aforementioned abilities. Interrupts, stuns, massive burst damage, speed boosts, vanish, etc. In my personal opinion, each and every class has an arsenal of utility in PVP but often due to lack of gearing appropriately and proper PVP spec, are otherwise unable to realize the full potential of their class abilities in PVP. At the end of the day, you can't walk into a WZ with PVE utility and expect to come out on top. Perhaps you'll do more burst damage but really will lack the required utility to really feel useful in the WZ for the team objective. In my experience, most of the time on my server, the empire side is more interested in kill farming rather than completing the objective making for one gigantic cluster mess. While this mentality resides, it's all about who can push out the most defensive strategy. In situations like this, I'll sit at a range and DOT people up and use CD's appropriately based on each individual encounter. Sure if you blow all of your CD's early on, you can't expect to live long, of course you're going to get nuked. One of the biggest issues I've encountered thus far is poor judgement in gearing / spec. This can vastly make or break your experience in PVP against other classes. It's vital that you do the research on your class and learn proper rotation / when to appropriately use CD's, stuns, knockbacks, etc. I'm not going to touch on the Stuns / Knockbacks being too much or not necessary for PVP as I have a varying opinion from the collective but this is what this post is for, to get the opinion of you all. In closing, I know what you're thinking, I'm trying to justify why I feel my otherwise OP class doesn't need to be nerfed, quite the contrary actually, I'm if anything providing my experience in PVP and would implore you all to respond back with your own experience with Sorc's and other classes you feel are "OP". If the collective opinion ends up being, "X class is OP", please provide supporting reasons as to why you feel that way about that particular class. I'm not knocking your opinion, I just expect supporting reasons as to why you feel that way. Please, if you're going to respond, list the class you play, spec you're using and gear decisions, all of this information is helpful. Thank you for taking the time to read this post.
Kolbenito Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Level a JK Guardian or SW Juggernaut and write us a great big ol' post about that Sages/Sorcs are in a very good place. That is basically what people are telling you.
Posixgod Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 Level a JK Guardian or SW Juggernaut and write us a great big ol' post about that Sages/Sorcs are in a very good place. That is basically what people are telling you. I leveled a Juggernaut, just didn't PVP with him. My only complaint on the PVE side would be the lack of overall damage. Also, tanking is a nightmare, having as many abilities as the Jug does and having to cycle through them I found to be non intuitive. Their didn't seem to be a real "Rotation" of sorts. Beyond that experience, I can't say much on the PVP side, would you perhaps be willing or able to contribute to this post from the perspective of a Guard / Jug? Thank you for your post.
Whosthetank Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 As my last post was flagged by a vast majority of you (how surprising), I decided to create a new post, one that touches on the communities opinion of specific classes being overpowered. This is intended to be a constructive conversation on class dynamics and I intend to keep this post as positive as humanly possible. Before you judge the intention of this post, please read it until the end. Before I start, for those of you who didn't read my last post, I'm a Sith Inquisitor Sorcerer, I'm level 32, have geared my character appropriately and currently am using the following spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201hZf00MZcMfRsMkrfz.1 In my own experience in the PVE world, I find myself able to solo most elite / strong mobs that are my level and feel that gearing your companion is severely underrated and somewhat non-intuitive for players. Unfortunately though, I'm not here to discuss PVE as I primarily PVP, at each level I acquire, I'm always maxed at the most possible valor I'm able to attain. Currently capped @ 32 (Gladiator), I feel I've had enough experience with a vast majority of other classes to provide the following factual information on my own personal experience. This may not apply to all, but it's not intended to, this is from my perspective and I'd expect / hope that others will share their own experiences in this thread. On the Sorcerer end, I feel we're a "One hitter quitter" class of sorts in PVP. I say this due to the lack of damage mitigation, sustained damage and wet paper bag armor. I'm in no way complaining about this in any way shape or form as I've had to adopt my play style / gear and spec appropriately to be effective against other ranged classes. Melee tends to be more of an annoyance to me but isn't my sole focus in PVP. As with any other ranged class, being at RANGE is always important, I believe it's often situational as other classes have abilities to Pull, push you into groups of others but as a ranged class, you're expected to kite other players as much as possible, keep DOT's up, AOE, etc. The discrepancy here for my class is that a good portion of you feel the Sorcerer class has too much Utility, IE: Stun Knockback (Required to be spec'd into), Long range burst damage, a shield that lacks a longer CD that absorbs a vast amount of damage, Stuns, etc. I'm not necessarily disagreeing that the Sorc class is a viable class to play in PVP, what I am however suggesting is that, a lot of other classes, ranged included, have similar utility to counter said aforementioned abilities. Interrupts, stuns, massive burst damage, speed boosts, vanish, etc. In my personal opinion, each and every class has an arsenal of utility in PVP but often due to lack of gearing appropriately and proper PVP spec, are otherwise unable to realize the full potential of their class abilities in PVP. At the end of the day, you can't walk into a WZ with PVE utility and expect to come out on top. Perhaps you'll do more burst damage but really will lack the required utility to really feel useful in the WZ for the team objective. In my experience, most of the time on my server, the empire side is more interested in kill farming rather than completing the objective making for one gigantic cluster mess. While this mentality resides, it's all about who can push out the most defensive strategy. In situations like this, I'll sit at a range and DOT people up and use CD's appropriately based on each individual encounter. Sure if you blow all of your CD's early on, you can't expect to live long, of course you're going to get nuked. One of the biggest issues I've encountered thus far is poor judgement in gearing / spec. This can vastly make or break your experience in PVP against other classes. It's vital that you do the research on your class and learn proper rotation / when to appropriately use CD's, stuns, knockbacks, etc. I'm not going to touch on the Stuns / Knockbacks being too much or not necessary for PVP as I have a varying opinion from the collective but this is what this post is for, to get the opinion of you all. In closing, I know what you're thinking, I'm trying to justify why I feel my otherwise OP class doesn't need to be nerfed, quite the contrary actually, I'm if anything providing my experience in PVP and would implore you all to respond back with your own experience with Sorc's and other classes you feel are "OP". If the collective opinion ends up being, "X class is OP", please provide supporting reasons as to why you feel that way about that particular class. I'm not knocking your opinion, I just expect supporting reasons as to why you feel that way. Please, if you're going to respond, list the class you play, spec you're using and gear decisions, all of this information is helpful. Thank you for taking the time to read this post. Everything u say is irelevent, when you hit 50, ur opinion about LEVEL 50 pvp matters, prior to that it does not.
Delavager Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Everything u say is irelevent, when you hit 50, ur opinion about LEVEL 50 pvp matters, prior to that it does not. Pretty much this. Though I will say that one point you make about players not understanding their characters spec, skills, when to use their CDs, etc. is a HUGE factor into why people cry. I'm a level 42 shadow and it's stupid how much i destroy other players. I primarily PvP and that's all I plan on doing end game. 1% of the user base knows how to PvP and how to use their character. I have yet to see any class, with the 50 brackets and even before, that was "OP". Basically I support the thought that 99% of players who cry "So and so is OP" just don't know how to play their class or PvP in general. I laugh at the amount of players I see ignore the health and expertise buffs laying around in all the warzones. At the start at voidstar, 9 out of 10 games i'm the only one that actually approaches the expertise buff in the middle from both sides. Bad people are bad.
Posixgod Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 Everything u say is irelevent, when you hit 50, ur opinion about LEVEL 50 pvp matters, prior to that it does not. You clearly missed the part where I said I wanted to keep this post constructive. Not being @ level 50 at the moment and not having expertise gear, does not take away from the points I was making about my own personal class experience, the information is still relevant. Again, that's your opinion but I can assure you, you didn't thoroughly read my post.
Posixgod Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 Pretty much this. Though I will say that one point you make about players not understanding their characters spec, skills, when to use their CDs, etc. is a HUGE factor into why people cry. I'm a level 42 shadow and it's stupid how much i destroy other players. I primarily PvP and that's all I plan on doing end game. 1% of the user base knows how to PvP and how to use their character. I have yet to see any class, with the 50 brackets and even before, that was "OP". Basically I support the thought that 99% of players who cry "So and so is OP" just don't know how to play their class or PvP in general. I laugh at the amount of players I see ignore the health and expertise buffs laying around in all the warzones. At the start at voidstar, 9 out of 10 games i'm the only one that actually approaches the expertise buff in the middle from both sides. Bad people are bad. It's both refreshing and relieving to hear this from a player who's 10 levels higher, I couldn't agree more with your post. While PVP may be the a very small percentage of the overall experience for users, I would also agree that it shows like a sore thumb, how inexperienced some players are with the class they play. I feel this plays a HUGE factor in the whole "NERF THIS NERF THAT". I wouldn't expect those "types" of people to agree with that of course but, I feel a lot of the inexperience contributes to that mindset.
Redderic Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 ya at level 50 the classes are much more balanced with the only issue being who has more expertise and people without it or a small amount of it crying about those that dedicate a ton of time getting it. i think that sorcs are just fine. i can demolish them on my kinetic shadow which essentially gives me 4-5 different ways of interupting their casts. i also find the operatives and scoundrels to be just fine personally. most of the crying comes from people who cant learn how to handle different classes. against sorcs, interupt as much as possible. close the gap at all times and hit them hard. focusing them makes them drop fast. against ops/scoundrels, use cooldowns and cc them. deffinately focus them to reduce the damage they are doing to the light armor wearing allies. they hit hard versus them, but the higher someones AC is the lower it is. against healing specced troopers/BH, interrupt them as much as possible, cc them while doing your best to not fill their resolve, and focus them hard. im sorry but its quite hard for any dps to solo kill them due to high mitigation and great heals. going against dps troopers/BH, interrupt their missle spam and most end up sitting there confused not knowing what to do. its kind of sad really. other than that just cc them and LoS their attacks. snipers/gunslingers, LoS them wait till their immunity to cc is over then go in and knock them out of cover. they are about as strong as a wet paper bag and die fast. if taking a direct approach then just interrupt their extremely long casts and keep hitting them. knights/warriors, its really quite simple people. instead of attacking the people that they are guarding hit them. they wont be getting medals for guarding if you dont hit their targets and with shield working against only 1/5 of the attacks in the game (if that) they dont take long to kill. AOEs work really well as well since it causes them to take even more dmg. not giving help for killing shadows/assassins since that would be counter productive for me due to being a shadow. so tough luck learn to kill us yourselves. everything has a counter in this game. the balance comes naturally and learning how to handle every other class really makes them seem like any other class.
Posixgod Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 Furthermore, on the issue of specific classes being overpowered in PVP or otherwise, I'd still very much like to hear from some of the classes "On the other end..." so to speak, I'd love the opinion of a player who's experienced in both worlds. Thanks again all, appreciate the feedback.
Posixgod Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 ya at level 50 the classes are much more balanced with the only issue being who has more expertise and people without it or a small amount of it crying about those that dedicate a ton of time getting it. i think that sorcs are just fine. i can demolish them on my kinetic shadow which essentially gives me 4-5 different ways of interupting their casts. i also find the operatives and scoundrels to be just fine personally. most of the crying comes from people who cant learn how to handle different classes. against sorcs, interupt as much as possible. close the gap at all times and hit them hard. focusing them makes them drop fast. against ops/scoundrels, use cooldowns and cc them. deffinately focus them to reduce the damage they are doing to the light armor wearing allies. they hit hard versus them, but the higher someones AC is the lower it is. against healing specced troopers/BH, interrupt them as much as possible, cc them while doing your best to not fill their resolve, and focus them hard. im sorry but its quite hard for any dps to solo kill them due to high mitigation and great heals. going against dps troopers/BH, interrupt their missle spam and most end up sitting there confused not knowing what to do. its kind of sad really. other than that just cc them and LoS their attacks. snipers/gunslingers, LoS them wait till their immunity to cc is over then go in and knock them out of cover. they are about as strong as a wet paper bag and die fast. if taking a direct approach then just interrupt their extremely long casts and keep hitting them. knights/warriors, its really quite simple people. instead of attacking the people that they are guarding hit them. they wont be getting medals for guarding if you dont hit their targets and with shield working against only 1/5 of the attacks in the game (if that) they dont take long to kill. AOEs work really well as well since it causes them to take even more dmg. not giving help for killing shadows/assassins since that would be counter productive for me due to being a shadow. so tough luck learn to kill us yourselves. everything has a counter in this game. the balance comes naturally and learning how to handle every other class really makes them seem like any other class. I couldn't agree more, you made some very key points in your post that are hard to refute, it's all about learning your class's utility against others and applying that strategy accordingly. You have to learn how to play both ends, the Offensive and Defensive, just like anything else. At the end of the day, what I'm really trying to figure out is how much of the proverbial "crying" that goes on is actually based on class dynamics and less of the player knowing how to be effective in PVP against other classes. Either way, thank you for the informative post.
Hylandugorn Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 ya at level 50 the classes are much more balanced with the only issue being who has more expertise and people without it or a small amount of it crying about those that dedicate a ton of time getting it." You're delusional. Repub side has cast travel times. Assassin vs Shadow. Both cast project/shock. Assassin shocks and is swinging at shadow, while shadow is waiting for rock still to fall. Troopers full auto is buggered while BH's unload is not. DFA triggers a second faster and does damage if more increments do if the cast is lost more dps has gone out. Mortar Volley takes a visit from Haley's comet to activate, and doesn't do its last tick until channel cast time is actually over. Most of the time resulting in a 2/3 dps loss. That's just a few of the small amounts of inbalance.
Slackfumasta Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 As a DPS Juggernaut who is 3 pieces away from full Champion gear, nobody cares about seeing me on the battlefield.
Posixgod Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 You're delusional. Repub side has cast travel times. Assassin vs Shadow. Both cast project/shock. Assassin shocks and is swinging at shadow, while shadow is waiting for rock still to fall. Troopers full auto is buggered while BH's unload is not. DFA triggers a second faster and does damage if more increments do if the cast is lost more dps has gone out. Mortar Volley takes a visit from Haley's comet to activate, and doesn't do its last tick until channel cast time is actually over. Most of the time resulting in a 2/3 dps loss. That's just a few of the small amounts of inbalance. I'm not sure that these are "inbalances" per say, but more or less non intended bugs in the game which is expected, being that we're still in the early release phases. I'd expect the aforementioned bugs to be fixed. Thanks for your input.
Posixgod Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 As a DPS Juggernaut who is 3 pieces away from full Champion gear, nobody cares about seeing me on the battlefield. Do you feel because as a Jug you lack utility to be viably sound in PVP? or is that opinion based on something else?
Chesterinex Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I play a level 50 Jugernaught in PvP and do fairly well. However there are glaring issues that directly affect how I play, mostly caused by LAG (or warping). This is worse for marauders/sentinels as they have no way of countering the lag. It's sad that I have to use my CC abilities to control the lag in order to hit someone, than using what its intended for (interrupting). Scenario 1: I CC someone to stop them in place (waste of a useful interrupt or range closer) I proceed to use an attack (out of range) (out of range) Player becomes I un-stunned 5m away from where he was rendered on my screen Scenario 2: I am chasing someone and am hitting them with my mdps I use Smash (a pbaoe ability) for not so obvious reasons Smash does not hit player lesson learned, use snare more often to increase probability of hitting target (waste of rage) Scenario 3: Full tank spec, full Champion pvp tank set including relics Operative kills me within 2 chained CCs by himself (unable to do anything because break free was on cooldown) Hmmmmm...Really? This player is in my guild so I know how he does it, but still... BTW, don't spec tank in PvP for this being one of the main reasons Scenario 4 (marauder 50): Mdpsing sorc Sorc shields and attacks Bubble breaks so Knocked back and attacked Force leap back CCd and attacked Break free Knocked back and rooted - unable to move (pop defense ability) and attacked Root breaks, being lightninged and snared trying to close gap CCd and attacked Dead Scenario 5: Attacking healer Healer starts casting big heal Hit interupt ability here's the kicker, either the interrupt doesnt go off, doesn't register until after the 2.5 sec cast is completed (yay useless wasted interupt) or in the rare case it actually registers. Marauders/Sentinels really get the brunt of this lag pain though. They have virtually no CC, and not enough gap closers to get close enough to dps. I don't know about your server but marauders in 50 pvp are EXTREMELY rare, and are not typically taken into PvE due to certain boss mechanics (not entirely sure about why people do this though). 1-49 PvP is mostly Mercs, Sorcs and the occasional Operative. If that doesn't make you question the current state of the game, I don't know what will. This being said, I have no problems in PvE (being able to run full graphics), but even running low graphics in PvP I still get these problems. Computer specs are well above suggested. Edited January 23, 2012 by Chesterinex
Redderic Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 sure there are certain aspects that kind of suck such as animation sequences that casue a slight difference between the two classes, HOWEVER, once we use the ability the cooldown is initiated. therefore, while the rock is sitting there waiting to go i still end up hitting them with another ability in the same time that they would. the only difference AT ALL between our project and their shock is that theirs is instant while ours take a second or two to actually hit. in many testing scenarios i also discovered that if the rock i throw is going to kill them, they stop moving before the rock hits them which leads me to believe that the damage is percieved and ACTUALLY recieved before the animation shows it. therefore it really does not matter at all. it DOES take the same amount of time to double strike right after a project for us as it takes an assassin to use thrash after shock. if you dont believe me make one and test it. slight quirks like this are not game breaking and are really only a problem for those that look to blame them losing on something besides their own skill levels. eventually they are going to fix all of the ability delays that they are aware of give it time. as for people crying for good reason about some classes the only valid arguement i can honestly see would be the massive amount of mitigation on a trooper/BH healer. i would understand them being like a paladin which was always a MUCH weaker healer but wore plate armor so they had increased survivability. esentially a great solo class. however this game makes them completely on par with all other healers but still increases their survivability which is kind of rediculous and slightly makes them OP in pvp. a team with about 2 trooper heals with guard on them allows them to hold points like no other class in the game. sorry but sorcs/sages with guard and ops/scoundrels with guard are still very squishy and easy to kill.
asilos Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I play a level 50 Jugernaught in PvP and do fairly well. However there are glaring issues that directly affect how I play, mostly caused by LAG (or warping). This is worse for marauders/sentinels as they have no way of countering the lag. It's sad that I have to use my CC abilities to control the lag in order to hit someone, than using what its intended for (interrupting). Scenario 1: I CC someone to stop them in place (waste of a useful interrupt or range closer) I proceed to use an attack (out of range) (out of range) Player becomes I un-stunned 5m away from where he was rendered on my screen Scenario 2: I am chasing someone and am hitting them with my mdps I use Smash (a pbaoe ability) for not so obvious reasons Smash does not hit player lesson learned, use snare more often to increase probability of hitting target (waste of rage) Scenario 3: Full tank spec, full Champion pvp tank set including relics Operative kills me within 2 chained CCs by himself (unable to do anything because break free was on cooldown) Hmmmmm...Really? This player is in my guild so I know how he does it, but still... BTW, don't spec tank in PvP for this being one of the main reasons Scenario 4 (marauder 50): Mdpsing sorc Sorc shields and attacks Bubble breaks so Knocked back and attacked Force leap back CCd and attacked Break free Knocked back and rooted - unable to move (pop defense ability) and attacked Root breaks, being lightninged and snared trying to close gap CCd and attacked Dead Scenario 5: Attacking healer Healer starts casting big heal Hit interupt ability here's the kicker, either the interrupt doesnt go off, doesn't register until after the 2.5 sec cast is completed (yay useless wasted interupt) or in the rare case it actually registers. Marauders/Sentinels really get the brunt of this lag pain though. They have virtually no CC, and not enough gap closers to get close enough to dps. I don't know about your server but marauders in 50 pvp are EXTREMELY rare, and are not typically taken into PvE due to certain boss mechanics (not entirely sure about why people do this though). 1-49 PvP is mostly Mercs, Sorcs and the occasional Operative. If that doesn't make you question the current state of the game, I don't know what will. These are some finely addressed scenarios which I can fully relate to as a 50 Guardian/mostly Champ geared, Vig spec. Especially Scenario 5. I should be able to top 150k damage but I struggle to in every match to even hit that damage mark. This is the only class I've played fully to 50 (since pre-release) and I do know the class pretty damn well. I'll find myself having to Stasis (which is channeled, not instant for Vig) just in hope that my target will stay put for half of a Master Strike, then end up chasing, using every CC I have to slow my opponent down, just to be left with kick for a minute. My kick button is F2. My main abilities are 3-8 so my hand is hovering there always, ready to pounce on that kick button... A lot of times it won't register, more often then not it comes up just after the spell is done. This hurts, a lot. Healers have multiple heal spells to use and can out heal us. Sorcs have multiple damaging casts that cannot be interrupted on time even on a 8 sec cooldown. I seem to handle operatives fairly well, if Resolute is ready. (Resolute is Mouse button 3 for me, so I can do that just as fast as kick if not faster) I seem to be evenly matched vs sentinels/marauders while toe to toe, no problems I see there (though I don't have to chase them) Snipers are okay too, pretty even fight at a distance, until I can force push out of cover. I cannot kill Bounty Hunters 1v1, even with gap closers and being toe to toe. and it's very rare my kick will actually time perfectly with ability delay and all, to actually stop a Tracer missile for a few seconds. (When it does happen I actually laugh. It's that rare.) I didn't list all classes because what I'm getting at is do NOT expect your class to wtfpwn every other class, so there's balance in dying and in winning vs various players and classes. My main point is game lag and the ability delay (which I know is being worked on) I've been lead to believe the lag is partially my computers and my fault that we seem to turn into a slide show (namely during Alderaan CW, it starts right when the turrets are captured and start firing I get huge spikes of lag as well as the Speeder in our home base won't show up a lot of the times when respawning, resulting in a War Zone Drop) What I wonder is why people with rad gaming rigs are having these problems as well? How might this be addressed to people that play war zones even on low settings? I've heard it's all being worked on. Despite all this and more I will still pay and play because I like the choreographed fighting and enjoy the kills/damage/protection/objectives/healing I STILL manage to get somehow. I just feel the crippling effect, that's all, if anyone can relate and share similar experiences or has constructive criticism, I'd appreciate it. Good Thread! Edited January 23, 2012 by asilos
Posixgod Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 I play a level 50 Jugernaught in PvP and do fairly well. However there are glaring issues that directly affect how I play, mostly caused by LAG (or warping). This is worse for marauders/sentinels as they have no way of countering the lag. It's sad that I have to use my CC abilities to control the lag in order to hit someone, than using what its intended for (interrupting). Scenario 1: I CC someone to stop them in place (waste of a useful interrupt or range closer) I proceed to use an attack (out of range) (out of range) Player becomes I un-stunned 5m away from where he was rendered on my screen Scenario 2: I am chasing someone and am hitting them with my mdps I use Smash (a pbaoe ability) for not so obvious reasons Smash does not hit player lesson learned, use snare more often to increase probability of hitting target (waste of rage) Scenario 3: Full tank spec, full Champion pvp tank set including relics Operative kills me within 2 chained CCs by himself (unable to do anything because break free was on cooldown) Hmmmmm...Really? This player is in my guild so I know how he does it, but still... BTW, don't spec tank in PvP for this being one of the main reasons Scenario 4 (marauder 50): Mdpsing sorc Sorc shields and attacks Bubble breaks so Knocked back and attacked Force leap back CCd and attacked Break free Knocked back and rooted - unable to move (pop defense ability) and attacked Root breaks, being lightninged and snared trying to close gap CCd and attacked Dead Scenario 5: Attacking healer Healer starts casting big heal Hit interupt ability here's the kicker, either the interrupt doesnt go off, doesn't register until after the 2.5 sec cast is completed (yay useless wasted interupt) or in the rare case it actually registers. Marauders/Sentinels really get the brunt of this lag pain though. They have virtually no CC, and not enough gap closers to get close enough to dps. I don't know about your server but marauders in 50 pvp are EXTREMELY rare, and are not typically taken into PvE due to certain boss mechanics (not entirely sure about why people do this though). 1-49 PvP is mostly Mercs, Sorcs and the occasional Operative. If that doesn't make you question the current state of the game, I don't know what will. This being said, I have no problems in PvE (being able to run full graphics), but even running low graphics in PvP I still get these problems. Computer specs are well above suggested. All of the aforementioned points are valid and I agree with you completely. These quirps are indeed bugs and I'd assume not intended. Let's hope this is addressed soon. Thanks for sharing.
Archelles Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Its not that Sorc are OP because they do a lot of damage, its the fact that they can also do everything else just as well as other specced classes. Heals - they heal as if they were specced for it and with the lag and animation delay its hard to interrupt. This needs fixiing in terms of cost per spell and amount healed. If you want to heal yourself like a healer be a healer not dps/healer. Damage - Sorc doesn't do ridiculous damage because of abilities its the fact that there is almost no resistances vs elemental and internal damage. Yes, i there are SOME but not enough to justify the high dps. As an assassin i have some utility i will not say i dont but the fact that my shield only works vs physical hits makes it almost useless. It works 5% of the time plus think about the amount of non physical damage every class deals. If they gona put shields that proc at least make it works vs all attacks not just 1/3 of them if that. Shield - here is the beef with the shield. As it is right now it can absorb all sort of damage without counting any resistances. If its suppose to block 4k damage it will do that without factoring all other things. It also works all the time and works against all damage not just physical or elemental. The fact that they can cast it on so many ppl also makes it a problem as it makes the damage reduction too high. They need to make it only one shield per sorc and make the cd longer/ change the damage reduction.
Posixgod Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 Its not that Sorc are OP because they do a lot of damage, its the fact that they can also do everything else just as well as other specced classes. Heals - they heal as if they were specced for it and with the lag and animation delay its hard to interrupt. This needs fixiing in terms of cost per spell and amount healed. If you want to heal yourself like a healer be a healer not dps/healer. Damage - Sorc doesn't do ridiculous damage because of abilities its the fact that there is almost no resistances vs elemental and internal damage. Yes, i there are SOME but not enough to justify the high dps. As an assassin i have some utility i will not say i dont but the fact that my shield only works vs physical hits makes it almost useless. It works 5% of the time plus think about the amount of non physical damage every class deals. If they gona put shields that proc at least make it works vs all attacks not just 1/3 of them if that. Shield - here is the beef with the shield. As it is right now it can absorb all sort of damage without counting any resistances. If its suppose to block 4k damage it will do that without factoring all other things. It also works all the time and works against all damage not just physical or elemental. The fact that they can cast it on so many ppl also makes it a problem as it makes the damage reduction too high. They need to make it only one shield per sorc and make the cd longer/ change the damage reduction. I totally agree with a vast majority of your post, on the issue of the shield, it's a touchy subject, only because in my own experience, that shield lasts for all of two seconds, also, there's currently some odd bug where if you go to reapply the shield, it sometimes will go on for 2 seconds and turn off for some odd reason and yes this is when I'm taking no damage, have no DOT's etc. Anyhow, I'd be for the shield lasting longer and reducing LESS damage overall because it's quite an annoyance having to reapply it so often. Let me state that without this shield, seriously, the sorc has like no survivability against mobs, not without stacking endurance like crazy and possibly negating your primary stat (willpower). I agree it may need some adjustments but adding a 2 minute CD (as previously mentioned in my original post) is not the way to address this issue, as is, we already have issues mitigating damage. Thanks for your comment though, very well constructed.
BegaTasty Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 These guys are all BG farmers, not pvpers as such, I wouldnt be too concerned over their put downs. They farm/share accounts/bot an afk their shiny quota each day. Those of us who actually world pvp, know a little bit about how things work. Myself I am a 44 JK defense spec. I get most of my kills by punting people into mobs or over cliffs. JK tank cant do enough damage to kill most players. But we have the utility to really mess with them.
Posixgod Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 These guys are all BG farmers, not pvpers as such, I wouldnt be too concerned over their put downs. They farm/share accounts/bot an afk their shiny quota each day. Those of us who actually world pvp, know a little bit about how things work. Myself I am a 44 JK defense spec. I get most of my kills by punting people into mobs or over cliffs. JK tank cant do enough damage to kill most players. But we have the utility to really mess with them. When I think Tank, I don't think damage or "viable in pvp" personally although Spec can greatly affect this. As for you canceling, If it had anything to do with what you just mentioned, I think you should give the dev team a few months to get the bugs ironed out.
NHenson Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure that these are "inbalances" per say, but more or less non intended bugs in the game which is expected, being that we're still in the early release phases. I'd expect the aforementioned bugs to be fixed. Thanks for your input. I play a 50 Commando, primarily in PVP using an unconventional form of assault spec. I haven't noticed anything being really overpowered, but maybe it's because I don't understand the game well enough yet to be able to identify which class is which and what their capabilities are. The only thing that frustrates me from the Sith side is that force using class that can keep me cc locked and kill me through the cc (whichever one that is). Even if you blow your cooldown to get out of cc, there is no immunity, so you end up right back into cc, and then dead in a couple hits. Ultimately, I think gear has a more substanial effect on pvp than class in this game as I notice my survivability increase with each new piece I get. From my own class' standpoint, I agree about the Trooper channeled ability problem. It has almost become a skill within itself to plant the GTAOE and predict/hope that enemies will be standing in the spot or run into the spot when it finally goes off. It's kind of funny, but annoying. Edited January 23, 2012 by NHenson
Raque Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 There can not really be a solid constructive debate over class balance until we are able to see logs of combat. The only people who get to see those right now is BioWare.
Archelles Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 To further add to my earlier post, i dont play sorc so i don't know if the shield has a bug or not. If i does thats the devs fault but its still too strong as it is right now. If i was to fix it i would make it a longer CD, change the amount of time it stays on the sorc to make up for the longer CD, and instead of changing the damage it mitigates change the type of damage. Make it only physical damage to make it fair for other class that do not have anything to stop elemental damage.
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