Story diversity is a lie

[_Miranda_]

Are you suggesting that playing MMOs causes one to lower their standards for quality?

 

It does seem that way for a lot of people.

[silkforcalde]

Zero questing variation between levels and factions is Bioware's fault. There's a reason why people have 5 level 85's in WOW and this game will shut down with most people have 1 (or less) level 50.

 

Most people I know in this game have more than 2 level 50s... what are you talking about? Just spacebar through the story and go grind on some mobs, this is nothing different from WoW. By the 8th time I was doing the same quests in the same order in Borean Tundra, I wanted to die. THIS IS NO DIFFERENT.

[imtrick]

Really? it says why in my post, maybe you could try reading the posts you quote.

 

So, if you're not looking to troll, what with the out-of-context signature? If that's not a prime example of trolling, I don't know what is.

 

Funny how you just chopped of the next sentence: "It's been a big challenge making sure that we can put in all of those features into our game at game launch or shortly thereafter."

[PeacefulViolence]

EDITED: due to insecure people not being able to stay ontopic, so ill just make it easier for them

I have played 24/7 every day since release 40 odd days about 500+ hours or however much you can imagine, is irrelevant.

 

 

 

So I hear a lot about the reason crafting, endgame and pvp gearing for pve is fail is because the game offers you so many unique levelling up experiences.

 

The claim is that re-rolling is where the amazing new re-roll experience is to be had. Bored at 50? Re roll for new fun!

 

That new characters offered new excitement. But it just doesn't.

 

I see mirror image CLASS QUESTS all the time. For example on Alderaan I have to destroy the generator to drop the shield etc etc. I have seen the same class quest formats + quests done on every single character I level up.

 

All they do is slap a slightly different circumstance / story onto it.

 

But it is all the same even across factions and it is very disappointing it is all the same over various class quests.

 

 

 

My point is that is extremely disappointing to not be having new experiences throughout my class quests. I can understand the inability to make it unique every time you go onto a new map. But I had of at least expected class quests to be some what unique. I can predict what I will have to do for class quests before I even get them just based on what I had to do on other completely different classes ><

 

At first when you roll a new class, quests are new and unique but as you progress towards 50, even the class quests start to mirror each other.

 

 

 

EDIT: Due to some people still missing the point of what I am saying, I am referring to class quests not being sufficiently unique. Which has surprised me as it is the one area I expected a completely new "ride" in this theme park game.

 

You do realize that it would be impossible to add entirely different stories and missions for each class right? That would be like a whole seperate game and would double the amount it costs to make it, do you use your brain at all?

[Cameirus]

So, if you're not looking to troll, what with the out-of-context signature? If that's not a prime example of trolling, I don't know what is.

 

Funny how you just chopped of the next sentence: "It's been a big challenge making sure that we can put in all of those features into our game at game launch or shortly thereafter."

 

The features are not in, and they are not going in shortly thereafter. At best a few may go in at 1.2, but its not looking promising.

I dont think I can fit the entire article in my sig, but feel free to go look at the interview yourself, of do you think people cant do that?

 

I'm not looking to troll.

 

I'm quite prepared to accept you have fun with the game, and I respect your reasons for doing so.

 

Personally I am disappointed that a supposedly AAA mmo is lacking in so many features and polish that it feels like it belongs in 2004 not 2011. I am disappointed that a star wars MMO of such promise turned out like this.

 

If you cant handle that, fine, if you disagree fine. Dont accuse people of trolling. Or shall I just call you a biodrone fanboi?

Edited January 23, 2012 by Cameirus

[Aloro]

There's a certain amount of irony involved in saying "story diversity is a lie," and then following it up with a blatant falsehood like "it is all the same even across factions."

 

Yes, some story quests have similar mechanics. Mechanics are not story.

 

This is one of the basic issues that prevents clear communication on the topic; some people are thinking of mechanics but speaking about stories.

 

The simple facts are these: mechanically, there are only a limited number of ways we can interact with the world in SWTOR, and there are only a limited number of ways that these interactions can be described.

 

We can:

 

* Kill things

* Click on things

* Talk to people (click on them)

* Move around

* Use our character's skills

* Pilot vehicles

* Yeah, that's about it really.

 

Mechanically speaking, every single quest in game involves some combination of the above. There's no real getting around this, either; these limitations are quite common and every MMO works with and around them.

 

From a narrative point of view, there are similar restrictions once your perspective is wide enough. If you want to make things abstract enough, there are only a few basic types of quests in RPGs, overall (e.g. the FedEx quest, kill 10 rats, etc).

 

Put another way, in SWTOR, you're going to take a LOT of shields down, and put data spikes in a LOT of computers, because those are common ways to interpret "player clicks on item".

 

What differentiates these quests from each other, most especially in SWTOR, is the story; the wrapper. How well does that work? Well, it really comes down to how much attention you pay to it; the more you care about the story, the more difference it'll have in your game. If the story is fairly irrelevant to you, then yes, from a perspective sufficiently abstracted into game design, every quest in SWTOR is the same as every other quest. The same is true in WoW, and LotRO, and AoC, and WAR, and DCUO, and every other MMO.

 

I've played every class at this point (though not all to 50), and they're all very unique. Sure, sometimes (rarely) you may have to a perform a similar task to something that another class had to perform in their story. If you honestly think that makes all the stories the same, you're not paying attention to the stories at all.

 

And, seriously, anyone saying the stories are "mirrored" doesn't know what "mirror" means. That's a completely ridiculous assertion and obviously untrue to anyone who has played more than one class.

 

I like to duo with a good friend of mine. Although I have other chars, I've run a Sith Juggernaught with his Sith Sorcerer (both dark side), and a Sith Sage with his Sith Guardian (both light side), and I can say that the stories are absolutely, positively different to me. Not only is the SW story dissimilar from the SI story, but the mirror classes aren't mirrored at all from a narrative point of view.

 

To get into specifics...

 

 

E.g. the Sith Inquisitor seeks to recover ancient artifacts spread around the Galaxy, to further Darth Zash's many plans. The Jedi Consular learns an ancient shielding ritual and has to track down Jedi Masters who have fallen victim to a Sith plague, turning them violently insane. Those two plots have nothing in common except that you travel to the same planets.

 

[Rogueish]

There's a reason why even the class quests are so similar, and it's at the core of the game. This is a multiplayer game. Some people do actually level with friends.

 

My main is a Marauder, my girlfriend's main is an Operative. If we want to level together, how exactly are we going to do that if her class quest chain takes her to Tatooine and my same-level class quest chain takes me to Quesh? If we go to two different planets, there's no way we can effectively quest and level together.

 

Ok, so now we're both on Tatooine. What if her class quest chain takes her to the far East side of the planet, while mine takes me to the far West? And the non-class quests on that planet take us to the far North? That still gets annoying to quest together, as we spend a lot more time traveling just so one or the other of us can get our class quests out of the way.

 

So, now we're both in the same building. How different can you make things when each class progresses through the exact same locations at the exact same time? Bioware's answer is phasing, and to the extent it's been implemented so far I think it's at least decent.

 

Sure, there could be more diversity in class quest objectives, but to keep it an experience that can be enjoyed by multiple people simultaneously, there has to be a certain level of consistency - at least in objective location.

 

There IS some differentiation in class quest objectives when transitioning between planets. For example:

 

 

When transitioning between Taris and Quesh on the Imperial side, my Marauder had to board a flagship to break the siege of a member of the Dark Council. My girlfriend's Operative had to go back to DK and get her records from Imperial Intelligence. Two completely different objectives with two completely different purposes within their respective storylines.

 

 

I understand that more diversity is always good, but anyone who thinks this game has less replay value than some other MMOs is being disingenuous, intentionally or otherwise.

[imtrick]

If you cant handle that, fine, if you disagree fine. Dont accuse people of trolling. Or shall I just call you a biodrone fanboi?

 

"Don't accuse people of trolling?"

 

Do you even know what trolling is? Is blatantly obvious that you're doing it. You're quoting people out of context in an attempt to get an emotional reaction. That's a textbook definition.

 

You can call it something else if it makes you feel better, but that's exactly what it is. And if you want to call me a "biodrone fanboy" for pointing out such an obvious fact (even though I haven't said anything to you about Bioware, or how much I do or do not enjoy this game -- all I've done is expose that your quote is taken out of context), well, that would be another obvious example of trolling, wouldn't it?

 

I don't really have a problem with you finding fault with the game; I do too. But at least be honest about what you're doing.

Edited January 23, 2012 by imtrick

[Vlacke]

"Don't accuse people of trolling?"

 

Do you even know what trolling is? Is blatantly obvious that you're doing it. You're quoting people out of context in an attempt to get an emotional reaction. That's a textbook definition.

 

You can call it something else if it makes you feel better, but that's exactly what it is. And if you want to call me a "biodrone fanboy" for pointing out such an obvious fact (even though I haven't said anything to you about Bioware, or how much I do or do not enjoy this game -- all I've done is expose that your quote is taken out of context), well, that would be another obvious example of trolling, wouldn't it?

 

I don't really have a problem with you finding fault with the game; I do to. But at least be honest about what you're doing.

 

Haha, my sentiments exactly, i mean just look at his post history, everything checks out

[Cameirus]

"Don't accuse people of trolling?"

 

Do you even know what trolling is? Is blatantly obvious that you're doing it. You're quoting people out of context in an attempt to get an emotional reaction out of people. That's a textbook definition.

 

No. You may feel that, and fine thats ok, but please dont pretent to know my thinking.

 

I quote that as I think its a relevant point. I think Ohlen himself if correct. Players dont understand.

 

This forum is full of, how shall we put this....slightly rabid supporters of swtor? who use the tired "its only just released" and "you cant compare it to XXXmmo, its been out XXyears, you need to give SWTOR time" arguements. Which that quote from Ohlen shows is NOT BWs approach.

 

Thats why its my sig. It shows BW dont think that way.

 

Now you can disagree with whether its fully featured, or whether features will come "soonTM" or not, But thats your opinion, I am entitled to mine.

 

I do worry that you call people trolls based on your own interpretation of a quote of Ohlen himself. Defensive much?

[anwg]

I'd be nice if the planets order differ, at least. But they are the same, so that gives the same old same old impression.

 

Although I just did Alderaan on my IA and I don't think it mirrors the smuggler's? It certainly didn't seem the same to BH's.

[Draflorin]

Getting kind of burned out on the game and was wondering if anyone had any ideas or suggestions how I could stay motivated to keep playing,..thanks

 

roll on my server and become my slave - i will give you many interesting crafting demands and you will never be without a long task list

[Rogueish]

I'd be nice if the planets order differ, at least. But they are the same, so that gives the same old same old impression.

 

Although I just did Alderaan on my IA and I don't think it mirrors the smuggler's? It certainly didn't seem the same to BH's.

 

I played a Jedi Shadow into the 20s during the free weekend pre-release, and I ended up on Taris. On all my Empire characters I didn't hit Taris until the mid 30s. I think it differs at least a bit between Republic and Empire, but if you want any kind of cross faction PvP at some point the planets will have to align.

 

This is really no different from other MMOs that have completely separate low-level zones, with the factions meeting in common zones at higher levels. In this case they're entire planets. Due to the age of the game, though, it lacks different zones of equivalent level so you have a choice as to where you do your leveling.

 

Of course the linearity of the class storylines sort of forces you into going to the different zones in succession. In the future, though, they could slightly tweak the class quests to give you more options, though. You might still get locked into a particular planet during part of the storyline, though.

 

---

Edit:

 

I think I missed the point of the post I quoted I was speaking more to the order of planets across factions.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Rogueish

[Aloro]

I played a Jedi Shadow into the 20s during the free weekend pre-release, and I ended up on Taris. On all my Empire characters I didn't hit Taris until the mid 30s. I think it differs at least a bit between Republic and Empire, but if you want any kind of cross faction PvP at some point the planets will have to align.

 

Taris and Balmorra are exceptional. Republic side Taris is 16-20 and Balmorra is 32-36. Empire side Balmorra is 16-20 and Taris is 32-36. Every other planet in game now is visited at the same level ranges by both sides, except the first three planets on each side, which cannot be visited by the opposing faction at all.

[Scopian]

LOL @ the losers who have to attack the poster since they can't argue the points. What a bunch of failures.

 

...and different faction side quests the game offers more than enough quality...

This is a blatant lie. Side quests of shared planets between planets are not only the same quests, but they are the same scripts in largely the same order...just with different voice actors reading the same script. But hey, as long as we are willing to believe the lie the illusion still exists.

[Yummymango]

Lot of people are missing the point of OP and I think I agree with him.

 

What OP is saying that The idea of "All story quests to be different" is not entirely true. In other words when you are playing with another toon, you will essentially be doing the exact same stuff just with a different circumstance.

 

I have lots of characters and just like OP the reason I leveled multiple after hitting 50 on my main was just to get a taste of different stories, sadly the overall quests remain same with some variations.

 

Is it good or bad, well I really don't care much personally.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Yummymango

[MrTijger]

Lot of people are missing the point of OP and I think I agree with him.

 

What OP is saying that The idea of "All story quests to be different" is not entirely true. In other words when you are playing with another toon, you will essentially be doing the exact same stuff just with a different circumstance.

 

I agree with OP 100%. I have lots of characters and just like OP the reason I leveled multiple after hitting 50 on my main was just to get a taste of different stories, sadly the overall quests remain same with some variations.

 

Is it good or bad, well I really don't care much personally.

 

Eh...maybe I'm playing a different game but my Jedi Knight story is in no way the same as my Jedi Consular and I also see no overlap with my Trooper. But hey, whatever.

[Yummymango]

Eh...maybe I'm playing a different game but my Jedi Knight story is in no way the same as my Jedi Consular and I also see no overlap with my Trooper. But hey, whatever.

 

My friend don't confuse story with quests. Stories are different but both (2 characters) stories will make you do similar stuff, send you to similar NPC's, choose similar options etc with a different premise or circumstance.

 

So though the story is different, you are essentially repeating same tasks. This applies specially after the Dromund Kaas storyline.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Yummymango

[Wintermutes]

OP seems confused about what "class story" is.

 

Hint: Unless it's in your quest log under the sub heading "Class" it isn't a class story.

[Rogueish]

My friend don't confuse story with quests. Stories are different but both (2 characters) stories will make you do similar stuff, send you to similar NPC's, choose similar options etc with a different premise or circumstance.

 

So though the story is different, you are essentially repeating same tasks. This applies specially after the Dromund Kaas storyline.

 

That's the problem - the OP confused story with quests in their subject line, now everyone is drawing the wrong comparison.

 

As I said above, if you want people to be able to quest and level together, your hands are tied regarding just how diverse the class quests can be. You end up on the same planet in the same area at the same level for each class. If you're going into a particular building, just how many different things can you do in that building? That also doesn't take you too far out of the way of your friend's objective, or the other non-class quests on that planet that are necessary for advancement.

 

At least you have the story itself to add to replay value. Without that, you're left with every other MMO's replay value, i.e. class playstyle.

[squiek]

Ok 4x lvl50 is sick, very sick.

Try doing anything in life for 500 hours or whatever in 1 month and not get bored !

Impossible !

 

Imagine you have to watch TV 12 hours/day or read books.

Arghhh

Edited January 24, 2012 by squiek

[Darth_Gao_Gao]

"I have played 24/7 every day since release 40 odd days about 500+ hours or however much you can imagine, is irrelevant."

 

sorry, but this is completely relevant. you are a statistical outlier and should be treated as such. your perspective comes from the darkest far right corner of this game's playerbase, and should be ignored.

 

on a more personal level: seek professional help.

[MrTijger]

My friend don't confuse story with quests. Stories are different but both (2 characters) stories will make you do similar stuff, send you to similar NPC's, choose similar options etc with a different premise or circumstance.

 

So though the story is different, you are essentially repeating same tasks. This applies specially after the Dromund Kaas storyline.

 

Well, I wont pretend to know what the Sith stories are like but that is not the case with the classes I play which so far have been exclusively Republic.

 

Also, if the game sent you to different planets and places then nobody could team up and play together in a coherent way so I find that premise rather silly, if I play with my wife, her as Guardian and me as Sage its immensely enjoyable to be able to level up roughly the same and see each others stories and no, our quests do not feature the same objectives or main characters.

Edited January 24, 2012 by MrTijger

[Eria]

I agree that there isn't much diversity at all. For example, I leveled up my Sorc as light side, and a friend leveled up his Assassin as dark side. We compared our story, and they were pretty much exactly the same, except a few minor details. The endings should have been vastly different if I went 100% light and he went 100% dark.

 

While in the middle of the story, choices made things a bit different, the ending should have reflected our choices...not a give us the same thing with a few different details.

[Rogueish]

Well, I wont pretend to know what the Sith stories are like but that is not the case with the classes I play which so far have been exclusively Republic.

 

Also, if the game sent you to different planets and places then nobody could team up and play together in a coherent way so I find that premise rather silly, if I play with my wife, her as Guardian and me as Sage its immensely enjoyable to be able to level up roughly the same and see each others stories and no, our quests do not feature the same objectives or main characters.

 

 

What they're getting at is that you end up in the same place at the same time. Like you said, when playing with friends that's necessary for a smooth experience. When playing solo, if you race through all the content very fast, it DOES feel like you were just in this place doing something slightly different (i.e. collecting an item instead of killing an NPC).

 

I'm currently leveling a Sniper and a Marauder almost simultaneously, so I get exactly what they're saying. It's fundamentally unavoidable, though, if you want to allow for group questing.