Leohat Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Ok. I can't help it. I've got time to burn. I want to state for the record, I was not a WoW player during the times discussed below- Vanilla WoW. I starting playing WoW sometime after the release of tBC. I stopped shortly after Cataclysm. According to wikipedia, WoW was released on November 23, 2004, on the 10th anniversary of the Warcraft: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft According to wikipedia, SWTOR was released for the Microsoft Windows platform on December 20, 2011. Early access to the game began one week before release, on December 13, 2011, for those who had pre-ordered the game online; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic According to WoWwiki, the first patch AFTER the official release date was patch 1.1.2 release on December 6 2004. Which only removed time zone tabs. (Big fat hairy deal). I'm going to skip this one. The next one however was significant. 18 December 2004 http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.2.0 According to my math that is 26 days between release and first major post release date patch. It looks to me like there were a bunch of patches before the official release date. I'm assuming that these were patches found between the time the release to manufacture RTM and the release date. Maybe someone that remembers could fill us in Look at the huge list of bug fixes. Now lets look at SWTOR According to http://www.wikiswtor.com/Patch_1.0.1 The first major patch was Patch 1.0.1 released on 27 December 2011 According to my math that is 15 days between release and first major post release patch. Admittedly that does not include some of the small post release patches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleekit Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) see tbh i wish people would just accept they are different games. wow has given up on story. its popular is Asia because its a grindfest (duh). get to max level asap and "push your lever for more food". don't even read quest "no one reads quests, right ?" just look at the target in the quest target and kill it asap and get to end game and start your next grind. they may be superficially similar but imo its the complete antithesis of the design philosophy behind swtor (and the antithesis of what initially drew me to wow) wow wants its attempt at e-sports to be taken "srsy" (even tho their Executive Vice President of Game Design says it was their biggest ever mistake) because it fits the mercenary mentality they've instilled in the player population. swtor wants...well im pretty sure it wants every piece of content added to have a coherent narrative weather that's guild capital ships, guild vs guild pvp, plant wide war zones or pod racing... one places challenge = fun and the other places entertainment = fun. the problem is that one group is so indoctrinated that they can barely understand that there's another way to do things people enjoy or that one size does not fit all and the market is big enough for both....and just possibly that's why wow has lost twice as many players as it ever had. two very different games with two very different intended audiences. i know where i come down. i just wanna fly a speeder between the legs of an AT-AT or somesuch and see where the story takes my character. i don't really care who wins whatever that is. hell i rolled a smuggler just to have a melee wookie tank and a millennium falcon knock off...and i can do so safe in the knowledge no one is ever gonna stand up at Bio-con and say "sorry guys we just don't know how to make the (gay) Republic cool"... as for your post about patches...so which is it ? Bioware fixes less bugs or Blizzard made a buggier game i kid. back then wow was much more simplistic than it is now...y'know before they nicked every viable idea that they could from up and coming mmos so they didn't look out of touch before those games even came out...quest tracker from lotro, out in world pvp and dungeon queueing from WAR, "phasing" from GW and half a dozen others, arenas to combat the threat from AOCs pvp, their laughable supposed re-emphasis on story and questline narrative in Cata in light of swtor... Edited January 23, 2012 by Sleekit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rukks Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Oh god no. Inc 50 pages -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 You can't because they were both released in different markets with different expectations. If you want to say that generally all MMO's that come out have problems, then fine. But don't try to justify Biowares failures by pointing out how other MMO's made mistakes at their launch, too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyMage Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I played WoW on release, and although it did have some bugs it didn't have nearly as many problems as SWTOR does. SWTOR problems include everything from light rays shooting through the world, becoming invincible in combat by dancing, glitching mana to have infinite healing, duping items in your mail box, all combat actions delayed by half a second, having high-res textures vanish, etc. There is a difference between having some bugs and having a BROKEN, UNFINISHED GAME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartalectwo Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 A lot of WoW 1.2.0 looks to be gameplay tweaks and balance changes. In terms of bugs fixed, the two seem pretty even. Seems weird, as WoW's patch notes puts bug fixes in their own category while SWTOR's notes list them by category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeezyBates Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Let's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wutru Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Here's the difference: Blizzard prioritized functional mechanics first, before content updates and expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbyte Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 did you get the drama you was obviously after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgofhs Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It's easy to forget what is present, and instead see what's lacking. Post-TBC crowds have this preconception of what MMOs should be, rather than what CAN be. I played vanilla WoW, and ONLY vanilla WoW, and lemme tell you, it was very mediocre. But, with the entire MMO community being one niche instead of it's current "niche'd" state, MMO elitists and ultimatum-givers couldnt/didnt exist. SWTOR is crawling, and will soon walk, then run, then sprint, etc etc etc. JUST as WoW did. I trust Bioware to do what's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripito Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I played WoW on release, and although it did have some bugs it didn't have nearly as many problems as SWTOR does. SWTOR problems include everything from light rays shooting through the world, becoming invincible in combat by dancing, glitching mana to have infinite healing, duping items in your mail box, all combat actions delayed by half a second, having high-res textures vanish, etc. There is a difference between having some bugs and having a BROKEN, UNFINISHED GAME. This is a complete ********. i played wow on release and u are forgetting the 2 days in servers not letting ppl log. you are fogetting also that before cata every single patch didn't work or ppl were having expectations 2 raid b/c the patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkwhite Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Early WoW isn't on the market. Compare TOR to established WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Here's the difference: Blizzard prioritized functional mechanics first, before content updates and expansion. It also took MUCH longer to hit cap in original WoW then it does in ToR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleekit Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 the only thing you can really say is wow created the market. (but never succeeded in capturing anywhere near it all) it was a "breakthrough game". peoples mums, dads, grans, gandpas, brothers and sisters played it. you can be damn sure very few of them are "hardcore" in any way. that's why it got 12 million players. because it was a fun way to spend a few hours. on the other hand there's the rise of the playground and collage set. those to whom peers and peer acceptance is still paramount. "Butters, go buy world of warcraft, install it on your computer, and join the online sensation before we all murder you!" "O-oh... Al-alright then!" hundreds of thousands of people defining themselves through playing a singular game online game. ...must...not...break...ranks...must...do...this...because...this...is...what...we...do....must...treat...people...not...in...my...clique...as...stepping...stone...clique...will...understand...they....are...lesser...beings... i could have done without meeting their charming representation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartalectwo Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I played WoW on release, and although it did have some bugs it didn't have nearly as many problems as SWTOR does. SWTOR problems include everything from light rays shooting through the world, becoming invincible in combat by dancing, glitching mana to have infinite healing, duping items in your mail box, all combat actions delayed by half a second, having high-res textures vanish, etc. There is a difference between having some bugs and having a BROKEN, UNFINISHED GAME. It's interesting to read some of WoW's later patch notes. Some excerpts: *** 1.2.1: Resolved an issue with looting in click to move mode that could cause crashes. 1.2.2: Fixed a bug that was causing the game to freeze when scrolling through auctions in the Auction House. 1.3.0: Players will no longer become stuck behind a structure in the Ruins of Eldarath, Azshara. Players will no longer become stuck near the entrance to an ogre mound in the Mo'Grosh Stronghold in Loch Modan. Players will no longer become stuck in a steep location in Forest Song, Ashenvale. Players will no longer fall through the ground in a cave location in Duskwood. Players will no longer fall through the ground at the Cauldron area of the Searing Gorge. Tab targeting works properly now. Fixed exploit allowing non-grouped players to remove other players from groups. Fixed a bug allowing a guild master to promote himself to guild master, which incorrectly set the guild master as an officer, leaving the guild without a leader. 1.3.1: We have fixed a crash bug that would happen infrequently when teleporting. *** And so on. The problems were there, and if you were one of the unfortunates who ran afoul of them, they could really ruin your day. Most didn't. Much like in SWTOR. Here's the difference: Blizzard prioritized functional mechanics first, before content updates and expansion. Maraudon was added before many of the above fixes were implemented. There's plenty of other examples. Edited January 23, 2012 by smartalectwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazgra Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 So what? WoW was still the best (or most accessible anyway) MMO at its release. If TOR wants a slice of the market, it needs to step up its game to compete with 2011 WoW. End of Rine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleekit Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Early WoW isn't on the market. Compare TOR to established WoW.by the same token swtor hasn't had 6 years of refinement. that said leveling is broken in wow unless you like being glued to a strict linear path, there are no group quests or world bosses in the entire game and "the lore", the thing that the franchise was built on, is a train wreck. but hey no one left playing it cares about any of that so that's all ok ye ? c'est la vie Edited January 23, 2012 by Meluna content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThanosTitan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The time scales are also very different. The most tardcore were just hitting 60 a month in wow, the first Ragnaros kill was 5 months after release. Swtor has been cleared in under a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scopian Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Its a good thing this game is competing with WoW at launch or else it might be in serious trouble... -oh wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambrogino Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I can't tell if the OP is joking or not. Who cares about patch releases, or are you one of those still trying to fan the flames of the arguments comparing WoW and SWtoR. At the end of the day it doesn't matter about what WoW was like back in 2003, its 2012, and any game made at this point in history should at least have the basics. Otherwise is risks ridicule! Unfortunately this game got a pass, why? 1. It's Star Wars. 2. EA has so much clout in the industry. A better point made by most should be the fact that LotRO, also a WoW clone, came out in 2007 and: 1. Offered more content than this at the start. 2. No Launch problems. 3. Better story content (It actually followed the lore) The only major drawback was PvP sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injury Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 This is a complete ********. i played wow on release and u are forgetting the 2 days in servers not letting ppl log. you are fogetting also that before cata every single patch didn't work or ppl were having expectations 2 raid b/c the patch FInally someone else that remembers this as well. Played WoW from their open beta through now (waiting on my sub to expire). On live release everyone eventually got about 2 months added on to their accounts because the game was so unstable. Servers would crash, log back in and you might be rolled back 30 minutes worth of whatever you were doing at the time of the crash. High pop servers had queues over 1.5 hours. You'd get in from work login to sit in queue turn speakers up and hope you were in after dinner. Originally any little bump out of game (see other bugs and lockups) you were back at the start of the queue, they changed this eventually but at the beginning if you got booted you were going to be raging at the screen or just heading to bed. You'd go to loot a mob and get stuck there and slide your body all around a zone in the kneel down loot position. You couldn't do anything else stuck like that. Sometimes a relog would fix it, and sometimes not. You never even planned to log in on a patch day because it was almost guranteed to need an extra 12-24 hours before servers were up past the estimate, then sometimes more time to be stable. Then when Blizz got on the ball eventually and got better on stable releases, you had mods to deal with which some people couldn't raid without. At release the basic UI had less options for ability slots than SWTOR's. Mods and such weren't released live til later. PvP was just where ever the players decided to pvp (tarren mill/southshore usually), no bg's no honor no nothing. Endgame was stuff like strat and UBRS which were 15 or 20 man iirc. MC wasn't out upon release. You'd be stuck in a line waiting on the last stupid spawn for a quest. Slow respawn time and a line of people waiting not wanting to group. The WoW big change was most quest items went to everyone in the group, but like social points in SWTOR people didn't take advantage. I'll take SWTOR's version of phases anyday over that crowded mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambrogino Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 FInally someone else that remembers this as well. Played WoW from their open beta through now (waiting on my sub to expire). On live release everyone eventually got about 2 months added on to their accounts because the game was so unstable. Servers would crash, log back in and you might be rolled back 30 minutes worth of whatever you were doing at the time of the crash. Kind of remind me about this launch. You gonna tell that a loaf of bread was a nickel too? At the end of the day times change and technology changes too and those that forget that are doomed to fail. Unless your Star wars and then you get a free pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonasty Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) They had problems managing populations and server loads cause the couldn't anticipate their success lol. Tor on the other hand has horrid combat mechanics. Edited January 23, 2012 by Toonasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartalectwo Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Kind of remind me about this launch. You gonna tell that a loaf of bread was a nickel too? There's a lot that can be said about SWTOR for and against, but at the least, the server stability has been very good overall. That's one lesson the SWTOR guys learned well. Edited January 23, 2012 by smartalectwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leohat Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Some more comparisons. According to http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/recount Recount was released Created 17 Aug 2007 998 days Or 2 years, 8 months, 26 days after WoW release Threat meter Omen was Created 9 Sep 2007 It is 1021 days Or 2 years, 9 months, 18 days after WoW release Deadly Boss Mods was Created 29 Apr 2008 It is 1254 days Or 3 years, 5 months, 7 days after WoW release I count 39 patches of Vanilla Starting from 7 November 2004 to 13 October 2006 a span of 690 days Or 1 year, 10 months, 21 days I count 25 patches of Burning Crusade released 5 December 2006 to 15 July 2008 (Note: I started playing some time in January 2007) a span of It is 589 days Or 1 year, 7 months, 11 days I count 21 patches of Wrath of the Lich King from October 14, 2008 to 29 June 2010 A span of 624 days Or 1 year, 8 months, 16 days I count 13 patches so far of Cataclysm from 12 October 2010 to today A span of 468 days Or 1 year, 3 months, 11 days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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