STOP copying WoW and start copying DAoC

[Nuzt]

Loved DAoC ... always have and always will, but to insist they use some of that knowledge is just plain silly. The people that designed DAoC are long gone and the knowledge with them. You can see the enormous difference if you tried WAR. Sadly the mythic team they have now are people just upkeeping, they don't have the knowledge and never will. Theres a big difference between designing and upkeeping, and they even managed to ruin what the original designers made.

[Redderic]

instead lets not copy any game at all or actually try to take the best out of all of them and try to encorporate them all in 1 game.

 

1. UO one of the most aggrivating things about it is that if you die you will likely lose everything on your corpse. On the other side if you kill someone you get whatever they had.

it was fantastic and brought reality to MMOs.

 

2. EQ had a few servers that actually had people lose their stuff as well in pvp but quickly dropped that since some stuff was harder to get and losing it would be a QQ fest from the loser. they dropped those servers and ruined the pvp. Then again the pvp never was very good in the first place with horrible balance.

 

3. DAoC Only played it about a month to be honest so didnt really spend time getting the feel for it.

 

4. SWG the world pvp was imo the best i have played. being able to storm peoples bases and destroy them made for fantastic pvp events. Balance wasnt an issue really since anyone could be any spec they wanted to be. Combat medics were really annoying though. The massive amount of DOT pikes and other weapons also helped to kill pvp. Then when the CU came in effect they lost about a third of their player base. Then tried to save it by upgrading to NGU and lost all but like 10 players.

 

5. WOW world pvp was never good imo. probably the worst game for world pvp i have ever played and i was there when BGs werent in effect. The BGS were full of bugs that STILL arent fixed to this day that have been in existance since they came out. Bravo on fixing that fail. Arena ruined pvp even further with requiring people to do it for the best pvp gear which is absolutely idiotic. Rated battlegrounds kind of fixed that but is still an EPIC FAIL.

 

6. CoH was and still is a complete joke in terms of pvp anyone who disagrees... whatever believe what you want.

 

7. CO (champions online) the PVP is a complete joke as well. NO BALANCE AT ALL in any bracket of pvp. at later levels most classes have a charge up that can kill people in 1 hit which is rediculous. Teleport is used by every bad in the game as a "oh **** button"

 

8. LOTRO pvp lmao more like PV p/e. most idiotic version of pvp i have ever witnessed.

 

9. cant remember the game but its the open skill one that every skill can be learned and gained. the skill gain is a major grind fest and people who afk macroed with Blood Walls were able to run in and kill lowbies with no problems. Not to mention skill shotting everything was idiotic imo. If i wanted something like that id play halo. played about 2 weeks and quit never looked back obvious since i cant remember the name of the game.

 

10. Guild Wars was horrible imo. entire world is instanced so only time you actually feel like your in an "MMO" is when your in town or fighting other people. In the beginning balance was horrendous but got a little better but certain builds would still dominate. pvp was a complete fail imo. truthfully im not looking foreward to GW2 at all. im pretty sure it will be just as big a joke.

 

11. EQ2 they had a decent playerbase for what 2 months? never even saw pvp in there.

 

those are the MMOs i have played. about half of them were complete fails in all aspects but pretty much every one brought something different.

For this game to compete in the current market they will have to actually listen to the people and WHAT WE WANT and NOT worry about WHAT THEY WANT TO GIVE US instead.

 

Honestly they did the PvE aspect of this game beautifully but if they want to hold on to the PVP players they will have to listen to us.

1. lose the rng gear system. Players want to feel rewarded for playing.

2. Balance is an issue for many. Hard to compete when the other side has at least 2x people.

3. Balance the classes a little better. Not necessarily nerf anyone but moreso some classes need a few smallish buffs.

4. Too much CC in this game. What ever happened to the tried and true support classes?

thats all my major complaints really besides fixing certain bugs.

[Proppa]

I would love to see Ilum turn into real open world PvP. Clear everything out that's currently there. Keep the 2 Main bases, then between them add 5 new keeps/structures similar to the 5 of a dice, so 1 faction would always control the majority. Controlling the majority would reward with bonus XP/Credits/Valor, perhaps a % boost to the RNG.

 

Keep's could have PvP chests inside, which would drop X ammount of Champion/Battlemaster items or Commendations.

 

Between all the area's, add various structures like "sniper towers", just some landscape to provide cover, ways to "flank" so people can choose to be tactical.

 

But it would need a population balance, or a way to beef up the guards/lords so that, if republic were massively under-populated, that the guards would be strong enough to assist the few defenders.

 

They would also need to offer under-populated incentives and display a visual indicator on server select, on the % per faction, so 30%/70% or whatever. Give the under-populated realm incentives to actually leave their main fortress also, perhaps a buff with a small absorb whilst they are active in Ilum.

[Hairyzac]

I would love to see Ilum turn into real open world PvP. Clear everything out that's currently there. Keep the 2 Main bases, then between them add 5 new keeps/structures similar to the 5 of a dice, so 1 faction would always control the majority. Controlling the majority would reward with bonus XP/Credits/Valor, perhaps a % boost to the RNG.

 

Keep's could have PvP chests inside, which would drop X ammount of Champion/Battlemaster items or Commendations.

 

Between all the area's, add various structures like "sniper towers", just some landscape to provide cover, ways to "flank" so people can choose to be tactical.

 

But it would need a population balance, or a way to beef up the guards/lords so that, if republic were massively under-populated, that the guards would be strong enough to assist the few defenders.

 

They would also need to offer under-populated incentives and display a visual indicator on server select, on the % per faction, so 30%/70% or whatever. Give the under-populated realm incentives to actually leave their main fortress also, perhaps a buff with a small absorb whilst they are active in Ilum.

 

someone hire this guy

[iDerrien]

 

WoW changed MMO's for the better despite what 99% of the people on these forums say otherwise.

 

well it changed it for the better for the brainless morons and casual noskills. for people that actually enjoyed complexity it ruined everything.

[SarahAran]

DOAC was good, but at the same time I signed up to play TOR, I honestly don't feel like getting misty eyed over an old game that had its time and passed.

 

But wait! I hear you say! This game is almost an exact clone of WoW! They're ripping off so much from that game that I the reader of this post find terrible about that game! Why don't they rip off the good parts?

 

Well my friend, this is unfortunately a bad argument. If you're going to suggest that TOR has ripped off WoW, than isn't it also true that Battlefield ripped off Counterstrike? Which was really just a mod of Half Life. Which ripped off GoldenEye, which ripped off Quake?

 

In-fact the entire FPS genre could be looked at as near perfect clones of the previous versions, with subtle mutations to the tried and true formula of "Shoot person in head, get point, act like *** in SayAll."

 

There's a word for this actually. Genre. And it applies just as well to books, movies and even music, (Repeatedly playing the same three cords while whining about how bad your life is? Points to whoever figured out who ripped who off!)

 

In any case, what use is there looking back at a failed game? Sure we all loved it quite well, but you have to ask, why are there millions of us playing TOR right now instead of lining the pockets of DAOC's shareholders? We all want something fresh and new. A change.

 

To be honest, I'd rather they keep trying experiments like Huttball and go in new directions rather fall back on something I already burn out on years ago.

[Red_Cruiser]

The PvP in this game is much, much more like WAR than it is WoW. I'm not crazy about WoW PvP, but this is certainly not a good thing in my opinion. I've never been so bored in all my time playing MMORPGs than I have been playing SWTOR PvP.

[Talizzar]

DAOC has how many subs and WOW has how many subs?

 

So BW should copy what a failing game did and not what a company did that has been incredibly successful? Is this what they teach kids in school now?

 

Now if you want to make pvp better they should look at what the core pvpers like and dislike from all the MMO and try to come up with a better pvp game.

 

I would really like to know what the population of PVPers over PVEers is. I suspect the PVEers are a large majority of the paying base. If that is the case then how can BW justify spending the lions share of programming time and resources on the PVP?

[Fearo]

DAOC has how many subs and WOW has how many subs?

 

So BW should copy what a failing game did and not what a company did that has been incredibly successful? Is this what they teach kids in school now?

 

Now if you want to make pvp better they should look at what the core pvpers like and dislike from all the MMO and try to come up with a better pvp game.

 

I would really like to know what the population of PVPers over PVEers is. I suspect the PVEers are a large majority of the paying base. If that is the case then how can BW justify spending the lions share of programming time and resources on the PVP?

 

you are a complete tool, DAoC NEVER had anywhere CLOSE to the same budget as WoW did they never advertised the game like WoW did , and it wasnt build on a famous branch - The Warcraft legacy.... the game stood up on its own merits and its own values, and the fact that you're talking smack about a game . that you've clearly NEVER played.. means you are a complete and utter tool , so let me try and explain to you why DAoC is infinitely better than WoW in pvp.... DAoC provided action for everyone not just for the zerglings such as yourself i'd imagine, but also for people who prefer to run small man or even solo, there was action for everyone , the fact that there was no "Warzone/Battleground win rule" it meant a huge frontier with action everywhere because people would go xp/grind/cap keeps/towers etc. in the frontiers, allowing for people to venture out and intercept these people. the game Concept to day is still hands down owning swtor pvp and i actually reupped my DAoC accounts becuase the game is so much better, so heres my thought how about you TRY DAoC and THEN tell me WoW or even SWTOR has better pvp , because you might just learn that you are so wrong, instead of slapping on random gear having to actually build a template for your needs and playstyle also infinitely beats this random crap gear equipping both WoW/WAR/SWTOR fancies. You know nothing of pvp if you say any of these games have even a slight bit of challenge compared to DAoC which had the most epic balance between classes . the mere fact that ANY class could kill ANYONE by simply being the better player meant everything ... this random BS where RNG Determines the outcome is BS and thats how it is

[TehMerc]

Yeah, let's totally go back to where you can't pvp if you don't have a bard for run speed and power regen buffs as well as clerics for buffs.

 

No.

[Acyu]

MMO is about making money.

 

It's a business

 

You create a game that appeals to the greatest number of people.

 

That game was WoW, and still is WoW, and will probably stay WoW for many years to come.

 

DAoC had a much smaller player base, and an even smaller player base that even took the game seriously enough to place it on a pedestal and worship it even until now.

 

Bioware is not going to CHANGE their game for YOU or the small fraction of "hardcore PvPers" that you come with.

 

Either play the game as how it is, or don't play it.

 

I enjoy reading suggestions, but I despise reading about how awesome DAoC was and how every MMO should be just like it.

 

I also despise how "hardcore PvPers" like yourself think you're entitled to dictate how this game should be.

 

Go back to DAoC and leave us alone.

 

Or better yet, go come up with your own $400 million and make a DAoC clone.

[nschlan]

10. Guild Wars was horrible imo. entire world is instanced so only time you actually feel like your in an "MMO" is when your in town or fighting other people. In the beginning balance was horrendous but got a little better but certain builds would still dominate. pvp was a complete fail imo. truthfully im not looking foreward to GW2 at all. im pretty sure it will be just as big a joke.

 

 

I would just like to say, you lost all credibility with this line bro. The GW PvP is actually pretty well balanced all things considered. There are stock builds that are part of the meta, sure, but the best players make up new builds and find ways to counter the meta.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Paralassa
warned since so removing

[Fearo]

Yeah, let's totally go back to where you can't pvp if you don't have a bard for run speed and power regen buffs as well as clerics for buffs.

 

No.

 

appearently you didnt get the gest of a damn thing i said so ill try once again.... im saying they should focus on NON instanced pvp rather than focus on ridicolous warzones that will become boring due to lack of diversity in matter of hours... the real focus should be on an ever changing world pvp that has a general purpose but still remains free for the player to decide how he wants to play and how many he wants to play with.

im not saying copy the classes obviously

[Darpo-]

What the hell is DAoC?

[Fearo]

MMO is about making money.

 

It's a business

 

You create a game that appeals to the greatest number of people.

 

That game was WoW, and still is WoW, and will probably stay WoW for many years to come.

 

DAoC had a much smaller player base, and an even smaller player base that even took the game seriously enough to place it on a pedestal and worship it even until now.

 

Bioware is not going to CHANGE their game for YOU or the small fraction of "hardcore PvPers" that you come with.

 

Either play the game as how it is, or don't play it.

 

I enjoy reading suggestions, but I despise reading about how awesome DAoC was and how every MMO should be just like it.

 

I also despise how "hardcore PvPers" like yourself think you're entitled to dictate how this game should be.

 

Go back to DAoC and leave us alone.

 

Or better yet, go come up with your own $400 million and make a DAoC clone.

 

You show how little you know, if DAoC had the budget of WoW or SWTOR for that matter and could have thrown up a PR Campaign like either game the scales would be different, the game ran up to what a million players despite NO commercial advertisement. Hell half of you peons didnt even know the game excisted Conclussion is DAoC has by all standards and remains by all standards the most challenging pvp game and if you say otherwise it prooves you are a complete and utter tool who has no say in anything on the interwebz, theres no argueing a fact sorry bud, You'd say to me with a straight face that random zerging in a battleground/Warzone has anything on small man/solo/Group action where you proove yourself the better or the worse player everytime you enter a fight? come now don't embarass yourself, the world PvP is something to learn and live by , the DAoC Battlegrounds are something worth looking into , and ya know best of all is if they implement them i'll bet ya anything that the Warzones will become completely deserted and we'll be back to World pvp - MMORPG Fact... People prefers killing / hack and slashing to do useless random objectives and being told by random scrubs what to do ...."go plant the bomb on the door noob dont fight people omg" is one of such idiot comments, if YOU prefer to play pvp for ....well...PLAYING PVP? ....PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER? ..... Not CATCH THE BALL AND RUN .....not .... PLANT THE BOMB AND GET TO THE CHOPPAH.......or the all time favorite....CAMPCAPCAMPCAPCAMPCAP...yea... F THAT.... more actual PvP and less objectives k thanks bye

[Fearo]

What the hell is DAoC?

 

best pvp game of all times and the game we should hope and pray that BioWare are smart enough to learn from rather than to continue down this ridicoulous WoW path

[BCBull]

MMO is about making money.

 

It's a business

 

 

So what's your game play about? Funding a business?

[ssasano]

there seem to be quite a few people dismissing daoc because they've never heard of it or because it never enjoyed mainstream success or saying those of us who support it are just a group of nostalgic fanatics (which the op clearly is )...

 

the thing is, tho, is most of the people you're hearing support it are those who have both played daoc and WoW and the new generation of MMO's it's spawned, which, i think, kinda invalidates yalls stance on this.

 

post-wow mmo's are all designed to play like wow in pvp. i don't think there is any turning back to daoc-style, open world free for alls in games like these. i don't think it would work. class balance is different. combat is different. the community is different.

 

with that said i really wish someone would design a game with open world, 3 factioned RVR (not pvp!) in mind

[iamtheolive]

Yes it's another post from yet another outraged player, QUIT building on to the worst failure that ever was an mmorpg...

 

When you can't construct a proper sentence, utterly disregard any form of punctuation (and no, emoticons aren't punctuation), and you call an incredibly successful game such as WoW a "failure" you've already lost any drop of credibility you hoped to once have.

 

Try putting together a halfway decent post with more substance than "this game I used to play was way better than this game I currently play so make this game I currently play more like this game I used to play but don't make it like that other wildly successful and popular game I for some reason hate because if you do you are wrong despite my obvious bias." (Whew, writing a run on sentence for effect like that hurt my heart...never again.)

 

Try it some time. See where it gets you.

[Cosmocricket]

Having been an avid MMO PvP specific gamer since the days of UO and DAOC (6+ years)--the new direction of MMOs is truly disheartning.

 

DAOC was not perfect, however--no game ever is. It was however, the most indepth, complete and FUN game I've ever had the priviledge to play with friends for many years.

 

It was a game where you had more customization (via realm ranks/crafted gear) than any game too date.

 

I could talk forever about DAOC, but for those that have played it--there is no need, we already know why that game design worked. For those that havent played, I feel almost sad for them--and always chuckle when the new, younger MMO players talk on these forums/general chat in game and think that WOW is the Holy Grail.

 

Sadly, DAOC was a very complex pvp system NOT designed for casual players. I can't even imagine the crying new players to that style of gaming would have; "what do you mean there is no induction bar?" or "How the hell can i get a spell off when i keep getting interupted by the sorc blanket mez?"

 

Id like to take this moment, and if I come off as being rude--so be it. WOW's business model--designed a concept that suited lazy developers and lazy casual instant gratification gamers. If you dont have alot of time to play because you have a busy life, maybe 'indepth' MMOs might not be your best source of entertainment--there are alot of great console games out there instead.

[Spyritwind]

This is not the pvp rpg mmo you are looking for. GW2 is right around the corner.

[Pashgan]

If SWTOR could offer DAOC-like open world PvP I'd resubscribe immediately. Meanwhile BW removes ilum in 1.2 and my subscription expires today.

[Darth_Acherus]

12 million casuals = worst mmo ever...........wat wat wat!!!!

 

Fixed.

[Vaipyr]

Fixed.

 

Because "hardcores" cannot fund anything except a tinly 1-2 server niche game. Period. It's just reality.

[lolikek]

Yes!

 

DAOC ftw

 

Hell yeah, as an old fivefold r10-11-12 DAoC player, I had so much fun to play, spending nights to farm ML9 making tons of gold to develop my manors, spending hours in Emain with my team, roaming foaming at the mouths, or HW/OG with my Hunt's friend, as a main 12L4 Viking Skald char, I was actually far from OP but, so-so-so much fun in it !

 

Then I realized than now, MMO games ere designed for players ranging from 12 to 16 years old with an inferiority complex and who want to rules the world, this is why WoW got such a lot of votes so far: cartoon graphisms, simply more simplistic day by day, OPness from classes tossed up then buffed or nerfed patch by patch, thereby players will remain hopeful for the next patch ("maybe this time it's over to me ?? Yes it is ! MOMMY DADY ! Seen how I pwnzd this guy during my HOJ ?? Hell yeah son, but now mom have to wash the dishes then shut up and play until dad will come back from work").

 

Well, thus this is actually the only way to dev a mmo game which will generate alot of dough...