Will lack of innovation REALLY hurt this game success?

[masmun]

One person hit the true success of wow. Outside of polish of its elements. It was a game even those whom had less time to devote to an MMO and the typical grind that came with them to achieve something. You could pick it up for an hour and feel like you actually got some where.

 

While I have played WoW on and off for its seven years and have had some fun. It did not grab me like TOR has. TOR has made solo play fun for me. While this is typically my play style, though I have always been slow to level and mostly enjoyed simply exploring and trying to do things I shouldn't be doing. The story element here has had me driving to complete quests, wanting to see what comes next and has made it immensely fun for me. I can only imagine the fun to be had once I get friends to join the game.

 

So for me this game has been a success and has kept me wanting to play, something that the countless other MMO's haven't after a short time. (which is perhaps why I have played so many over my long gaming career.)

 

So in short I think the innovations it has done have been nothing but amazing and more than enough to make it viable in the future. The only thing though that may change this would be content to come.

[Halden]

What the title says.

 

I know I probably will get a lot of "no" because this place being rampant with fanboys, but I think similarities to WoW will hurt this game for a lot of people.

 

I'll go with "probably not" or "nobody can possibly know until a few years from now."

[KillerJak]

I'll be honest my personal opinion is this game will be around a long time. This is not due to it being the best game though, like Blizzard Bioware have earned an army of fanboys who feel they can do no wrong. The sort of poeple who though DA2 was great. There is the star wars fans after that who will continue playing just because it's star wars.

 

But in my opinion GW2 looks to be far the superior game in terms of pure gameplay. They are dropping a lot of the archaic mechanics that started because of the limitations of technology when the MMO genre first emerged. Mechanics that persist just because people are so familiar with them. Like global cooldown for a small example.

 

Whether or not GW2 succeeds I applaud them for trying to do something new and refreshing.

 

As for WoW... it's doing a grand job of killing itself I don't know what Blizzard are playing at.

 

lol your post makes me think of ff14(the most pathetic mmo ever made period) People troll me for calling square enix a joke of a developer these days(used to love there games) because square can do no wrong. you do have a point...even if the game isnt state of the art original it will have a large fanbase because 1.biowares success in the past(DA2 and sonic the hedghog excluded) really bioware sonic the hedgehog?! anyways...and 2 because its star wars! lol...and 3. like i said in another post the MAJORITY of gamers have made it clear that they dont want change. they want the same thing with small differences/twists/improvements.

 

This game has just enough inovation to hook the masses without being too foriegn(people fear change these days) and i see it lasting a very long time if they can keep content coming out at a good rate... which i am nervous about because of there obsession with voice acting. AS for GW2 i also comend them for trying to break away from the norm but they still arent making a pure original game design...noone does.

 

But you bring up a great point Korvenn...never underestimate the blind loyalty of fanboys. ff14 proves that without a doubt(people are actualy going to pay to play a beta for over a year)lol makes me sick

 

I have hope for this game though since story driven/rp wise it has such great potential. but anyone who thinks this game is perfect is too easily impressed

Edited December 15, 2011 by KillerJak

[Aevar]

lol your post makes me think of ff14(the most pathetic mmo ever made period) People troll me for calling square enix a joke of a developer these days(used to love there games) because square can do no wrong. you do have a point...even if the game isnt state of the art original it will have a large fanbase because 1.biowares success in the past(DA2 and sonic the hedghog excluded) really bioware sonic the hedgehog?! anyways...and 2 because its star wars! lol...and 3. like i said in another post the MAJORITY of gamers have made it clear that they dont want change. they want the same thing with small differences/twists/improvements.

 

This game has just enough inovation to hook the masses without being too foriegn(people fear change these days) and i see it lasting a very long time if they can keep content coming out at a good rate... which i am nervous about because of there obsession with voice acting. AS for GW2 i also comend them for trying to break away from the norm but they still arent making a pure original game design...noone does.

 

But you bring up a great point Korvenn...never underestimate the blind loyalty of fanboys. ff14 proves that without a doubt(people are actualy going to pay to play a beta for over a year)lol makes me sick

 

I have hope for this game though since story driven/rp wise it has such great potential. but anyone who thinks this game is perfect is too easily impressed

 

FFXIV actually droped the sub fee for about a year while they worked on this "huge" patch, still not realesed i believe.

[Tornak]

UI, class design, art style (cartoony style nods at WoW's success), trinity, flightpoints are the same, menu interface is the same, guild interface is the same, PVP grouping functionality is the same.

 

Thous things aint some wow invention. there was mmo's befor wow.

[KillerJak]

FFXIV actually droped the sub fee for about a year while they worked on this "huge" patch, still not realesed i believe.

 

nope they are starting to charge people in about 3 weeks or so...even though the game is still about a year at least away from completion/patch2.0(the big patch you are reffering to)(how it should have been at launch back in september 2010). ive sadly been keeping a close eye on it dispite my better judgment to ditch it as a lost cause. i could type pages on pages of how horrid that game is from its mecanichs to its actual game engine/client. They actualy had to remake the bloody thing from scratch and are about halfway done if they have no problems and everything goes perfectly as planed. lol sorry for getting off topic

Edited December 15, 2011 by KillerJak

[Staalker]

I dont get it why its allways wow, id say its like rift, daoc, eq...any *********** mmo ive ever seen.

 

Much better way to say it that its like any other mmo, it has some new things and some old things ofc, if it didnt have the old things, it wouldnt prolly be mmo at all and the new things r what makes it different from others.

 

Do you ppl talk ppl sameway? ou look hes got arms too hes like my cousin? it just blows over my head everytime i see these "oh its like the other mmo i played" ofc its its MMO!!!!

 

when u start to think it what did wow bring to the table? nothing far as i know, instances all rdy was at least in eve beta, swg had the tree formation of skills and it had taming ofc. I fail to see what new things wow suppousedly brought.

 

Really? You don't know why WoW?

 

Most successful, in terms of subscriptions, in history. WHen you can pull 12 million people in and get them to pay a monthly fee for a game, you have to want a piece of that.

 

When you compare things you want to compare yours to the most popular, or the best, to see how it stands up.

 

Many won't say WoW is the best...but when you look at the numbers...you have to compare your game to it. Why? Because if they can pull 12 million subs, and keep most of them for a long period of time...you want to know how well you can do in the same market.

[Reniper]

Thous things aint some wow invention. there was mmo's befor wow.

 

Screenshot or it didn't happen.

[ScytheReaper]

lol your post makes me think of ff14(the most pathetic mmo ever made period) People troll me for calling square enix a joke of a developer these days(used to love there games) because square can do no wrong. you do have a point...even if the game isnt state of the art original it will have a large fanbase because 1.biowares success in the past(DA2 and sonic the hedghog excluded) really bioware sonic the hedgehog?! anyways...and 2 because its star wars! lol...and 3. like i said in another post the MAJORITY of gamers have made it clear that they dont want change. they want the same thing with small differences/twists/improvements.

 

This game has just enough inovation to hook the masses without being too foriegn(people fear change these days) and i see it lasting a very long time if they can keep content coming out at a good rate... which i am nervous about because of there obsession with voice acting. AS for GW2 i also comend them for trying to break away from the norm but they still arent making a pure original game design...noone does.

 

But you bring up a great point Korvenn...never underestimate the blind loyalty of fanboys. ff14 proves that without a doubt(people are actualy going to pay to play a beta for over a year)lol makes me sick

 

I have hope for this game though since story driven/rp wise it has such great potential. but anyone who thinks this game is perfect is too easily impressed

 

This is mostly my viewpoint I believe. From my experience people don't actually want massive jumps sideways. They want small jumps forward. Its already been proven by many of the MMO's out there.

 

AoC, TERA, Tabla-Rasa, all "innovative" MMO's that tried to do massive jumps sideways. AoC and Tabla-Rasa resemble nothing of an MMO almost at all except for a large world with many players in it at once.

 

AoC is basically an action game. When those were comming out people also thought that it would take the MMO world by storm. Sadly the community was just really loud.

 

Hardly anyone even noticed some of these launches that promised to "change the MMO realm forever".

 

It just seems to me that if all of this innovation was truly what the masses clammer for these games would be more popular. They do have their appeals but not as large as WoW's apparently. Which proves to me, the majority didn't care for their innovations.

 

The innovations are the same things future titles are trying to rehash, repackage, and throw out on the line again. Free form combat, getting rid of the holy trinity, and server vs server combat were the prime attraction for each of the MMO's (In that order? can't remember).

 

Yet its clear the worms weren't biting those the first time around but maybe all together their powers will combine. Story however is completely new. So we will see how important of an innovation it is.

 

People don't realize all the innovation around them. The MMO genre is already full of innovation. We now have innovations in story, AoC brought the free form combat, WAR brought the PvP, Tabla-Rasa brought the death of holy trinity and fps mechanics I believe (if i'm not getting MMO's mixed up here) and then TERA brought its own spins.

 

In the foreseeable future the big test is up to two titans to revolutionize the genre. If SWTOR fails and GW2 fails then I will likely not ever touch another MMO for a while as its clear my interests are not in line with anywhere the genre is heading. Although I don't think GW2 is hot stuff I at least applaud it for its attempts.

 

Someone earlier stated people are desperate for innovation. I actually think its the opposite. DEVELOPERS seem desperate for innovation. Almost everything has been tried (SEE: above) from complete combat overhauls to FPS mechanics to try to shake people from what they know and love: WoW. Hell even rift tried pulling a WoW at its own game and simply refining the entire formula. Still didn't work.

 

Developers are now just combining innovations together in a desperate struggle to make SOMETHING happen. If people were so desperate for innovation..well..they already have it. Literally. Those other MMO's right now are gargantuin leaps side ways and offer completely unique experiences. The problem is, the majority doesn't seem to want them.

[Fashbinder]

SWTOR story is great until level 30ish, then you realize

 

 

Unlike KOTOR/TES series. Nothing you say or do has any consequence outside alignment/companion rep. Nothing you do matters. Im not asking for giant series of forked story or main characters dieing, just something that matters.

 

I know BW wanted to prevent the 'Oh, you saved person x? you're gimped but im not looking for a unique journey, i just want consequence, even if its short term.

 

 

This extends onto other parts of the game, like PvP. Nothing you do matters.

 

Carry for your team in a wz and win? Hold all bases in ilum? (cap and leave atm, so you can flip later) Doesnt matter.

 

Conversely on the extreme, play tired or drunk on darkfall/mortal online and you can screw yourself bigtime.

 

Just wish swtor had something that I could strive for, like server leaderboards. Remember when devs said there would be unique craft recipies where you could be renowned on the server? Havent heard/seen anything.

 

Even factional pride is non existant. Wow and MxO both had a 'donate x item for war effort' to max your factions bar to get a bonus. Anything absolutely anything that gives players action purpose would be amazing.

 

I dont think i'll walk past a guy and think 'wow thats cool' because he has a clan base, unique title or some other perk. I'll look at a passer by and think, oh thants a generic X with a generic Y.

 

Too much to ask from a 2011 mmo thats on par with a 2001 mmo's content/mechanics.

[ScytheReaper]

SWTOR story is great until level 30ish, then you realize

 

 

Unlike KOTOR/TES series. Nothing you say or do has any consequence outside alignment/companion rep. Nothing you do matters. Im not asking for giant series of forked story or main characters dieing, just something that matters.

 

I know BW wanted to prevent the 'Oh, you saved person x? you're gimped but im not looking for a unique journey, i just want consequence, even if its short term.

 

 

This extends onto other parts of the game, like PvP. Nothing you do matters.

 

Carry for your team in a wz and win? Hold all bases in ilum? (cap and leave atm, so you can flip later) Doesnt matter.

 

Conversely on the extreme, play tired or drunk on darkfall/mortal online and you can screw yourself bigtime.

 

Just wish swtor had something that I could strive for, like server leaderboards. Remember when devs said there would be unique craft recipies where you could be renowned on the server? Havent heard/seen anything.

 

Even factional pride is non existant. Wow and MxO both had a 'donate x item for war effort' to max your factions bar to get a bonus. Anything absolutely anything that gives players action purpose would be amazing.

 

I dont think i'll walk past a guy and think 'wow thats cool' because he has a clan base, unique title or some other perk. I'll look at a passer by and think, oh thants a generic X with a generic Y.

 

Too much to ask from a 2011 mmo thats on par with a 2001 mmo's content/mechanics.

 

The choices matter about as much as they do in ME or ME2 or DA:O really. ME was terribly guilty of this.

 

Regardless of the decision you picked everything generally ended up the same with only TWO decisions in the game that actually affected your own gameplay. One involved deciding to kill an ally.

 

Most of them were only there to allocate renegade and rebel points. Yet people did not complain. In fact it was praised. The same thing happened with ME2 and again nobody complained. Mainly because there really isn't any game out there that gives the drastic changes I believe you are talking about. At least if there is I haven't seen it.

 

The most drastic change I've ever made in a video game was in fallout with megaton. That decision had some impact. But really in games it all boils down to how you get to X versus whether you end up with X or Y.

 

Even the witcher (hailed for its branching storylines) suffered from the same thing. At most different decisions only resulted in perhaps an encounter or two that you wouldn't have seen otherwise. But the endings were all generally the same.

 

DA:O did a great job of multiple endings but sadly most of the game remains completely similar with ONLY the ending being changed and not much else.

[Fashbinder]

The most drastic change I've ever made in a video game was in fallout with megaton. That decision had some impact. But really in games it all boils down to how you get to X versus whether you end up with X or Y.

 

Mine was oblivion, joining Mankor Camerons mythic dawn and leaving cyrodyll in chaos.

 

Let me give you an example of what im talking about, sw on alderan.. without spoiling the summary is your 'master' recaps your adventure and asks if its true or not and you choose your answer. Reguardless of if you did it or not, so you can pick the + or - rep awards.

 

Consequence without forking the story would have been 'I see you freed X instead of killing him." +lightside.

 

Id then feel like what I did mattered. For me that was an epic immersion breaker and the highly revered story now made me roll my eyes.

[ScytheReaper]

Mine was oblivion, joining Mankor Camerons mythic dawn and leaving cyrodyll in chaos.

 

Let me give you an example of what im talking about, sw on alderan.. without spoiling the summary is your 'master' recaps your adventure and asks if its true or not and you choose your answer. Reguardless of if you did it or not, so you can pick the + or - rep awards.

 

Consequence without forking the story would have been 'I see you freed X instead of killing him." +lightside.

 

Id then feel like what I did mattered. For me that was an epic immersion breaker and the highly revered story now made me roll my eyes.

 

I can't yet comment on what you are speaking about all though I do know of it (spoilers and all that). In similar fashion to ME and ME2 and other games that are hailed for choice many of the choices you make are supposed to come together for an epic endgame.

 

Because no one is there yet no one is experiencing the impacts of choices. This is a very long game.

 

Basically you are in the starting stages of ME. You are making lots of decisions but not seeing what any of them do. You are setting the infrastructure for your own game.

 

Supposedly that very decision that you just spoke of is actually quite important and leads to some bad mojo if you lied to him. Tough encounters ahead.

 

We are treading tough terratory here though, spoilers and all.

 

Suffice it to say developers have commented on this in the past and have foretold of choices making great difference in the story. I'm skeptical of huge, sweeping, story branches but I do believe some neat stuff is in store.

 

Each class is supposedly given its own twists and turns. Again right now you are just kind of setting up pretexts. The consequences come later.