Brosephiine Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 I'd say 10% of the tutor class are always trying to find new and exciting ways to make you understand, learn and overall be passionate about what you need to know. This thread is good for the people that don't spend their time on other sites like RPS/GB or look at shows like Extra Credits. True. However, this is a genre most people have gotten used to, blame the other guys for making it big and popular. I know I am. I hope you read this and take it into consideration seeing as gamers are big suckers and all you need to do is market them a pack of horse dongs and you'll get your creative investment in no time. You don't even have to break a sweat, I've been told. Well yeah, make the game as easy as possible and throw in lots of pretty colors and killing and you've got a goddamn hit with the casuals, which is where all the money is made from. :s Sad but true. I'm an artist though, so I can still have fun with drawing stuff all day, even if it's redrawing the same stupid character over and over until someone else is happy with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabigbom Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Well yeah, make the game as easy as possible and throw in lots of pretty colors and killing and you've got a gosh darn hit with the casuals, which is where all the money is made from. :s Sad but true. I'm an artist though, so I can still have fun with drawing stuff all day, even if it's redrawing the same stupid character over and over until someone else is happy with it. Then I'll pray for you to become the next female Edmund McMillen or Shinji Mikami. Right, back on this thread's tracks. With all due seriousness, the development plans for this game weren't so astronomical to begin with. I mean come on, look at the game, it isn't something you'd call revolutionary now is it? I must have had really, really high expectations or else I dunno what to say. Moving on. I'll stop "whining" or "moaning" as the white knights of this forum would say. The tech they have? It's Aurora, it's their own in house built stuff, they worked on that since KOTOR. They also have a lot of tech from Mythic since most of their designers work hand in hand with Bioware for the majority of the content. Are we on the same level on this one? I think we might be. So tech wasn't the problem. Now, the thing is we have no ideea what kind of server architecture they are working with, but at this point it seems like a bit of a workout and it looks like a lengthy haul for them. Do they need to build new tech for it? No. Can they improve their server structures? Don't think so since this is proprietary stuff owned by EA. Correct? However, the ways they could have shipped off content could be way faster and could be implemented way quicker. I dunno how these artists claim to have and I quote "hand built" every single set piece out there since a lot of the stuff is purely copied easily, meshed, textured and voila. Right? In any case, I really, really don't think this game was a complete ground-up workout on a general concept level since Bioware has so many sources they can pull off from. One thing I noticed is that Bioware really tends to exaggerate with environment scaling. They either make set pieces too long, too narrow, too small or too big. They could have found a better way to make everything go from a smooth transitioning between different planet sectors, but I guess they must have been under a tight schedule. Alderaan or Belsavis are perfect examples. The starting planets (first two planets), however look really polished, feel right in terms of exploration bounds and are crafted really carefully with a lot of nifty doodads and pixels lying on screen for the eye candy effect, so the only issue here with their designs is that they were working on a big time constraint. Which makes me think they must have made this game in 2 years tops. Of course I'm just throwing that out, but whatever. The exact times in which they worked are unclear to everyone, the thing is that this whole debacle was caused by a few issues that could have been managed more efficiently, which again, leads me to the conclusion that Bioware had 0 time to polish the game exactly how they wanted. We're already seeing a lot of stuff that was cut being re-introduced as "content patches" so the whole issue and the worries stem from this exact source. People aren't in the dark about the basic fundimentals of how games come into existence, that's just ancient 1995 thinking when people thought games were made with magic and a little pixie dust (joking of course, but you get the jist). People are in the dark because they feel that Bioware have done something wrong in their dev process and that makes them fear. Fear is the mind killer right? Patterns are starting to arise here and not to mention, last year was full of smaller companies like TRION for example, that have managed to overcome initial fears and have had the technologies ready for any situation requested. Of course, they had their fair share of problems too, but TRION knew what to expect and they had an exact plan of what people's expectations were. See? This is the whole jist, this isn't a game made by a small, emerging company. This is a game made by an experienced, well built, veteran developer. That's where the "impatience", the "moaning and whining" and the requesting of "unnecessary MMO systems" come in. Point short, the game right now is in a comatose state as far as I see it (that's just me being me) and it will take a good year, before they can bounce back to what they wanted to release. But people don't understand that and they knew that, Bioware and EA, always knew that, yet they took the dangerous path. No one asked them to do that and no gamer requested that. The gamers of today are far more educated than those of the past, they adapt quicker, respond faster to any sort of gameplay mechanic and are well enough openly minded to try out and find new things to experience (look at the meteoric rise of Minecraft). So, tell me Brosephine, how can one be sure what to think anymore? p.s God I wish they would have waited and worked on this some more. 2013 would had been a near perfect release date. But alas, EA. Edited February 5, 2012 by Dabigbom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 The exact times in which they worked are unclear to everyone, the thing is that this whole debacle was caused by a few issues that could have been managed more efficiently, which again, leads me to the conclusion that Bioware had 0 time to polish the game exactly how they wanted. We're already seeing a lot of stuff that was cut being re-introduced as "content patches" so the whole issue and the worries stem from this exact source. People aren't in the dark about the basic fundimentals of how games come into existence, that's just ancient 1995 thinking when people thought games were made with magic and a little pixie dust. People are in the dark because they feel that Bioware have done something wrong in their dev process and that makes them fear. Fear is the mind killer right? Not to mention, last year was full of smaller companies like TRION for example, that have managed to overcome initial fears and have had the technologies ready for any situation requested. Of course, they had their fair share of problems too, but TRION knew what to expect and they had an exact plan of what people's expectations were. See? This is the whole jist, this isn't a game made by a small, emerging company. This is a game made by an experienced, well built, veteran developer. That's where the "impatience", the "moaning and whining" and the requesting of "unnecessary MMO systems" come in. Point short, the game right now is in a comatose state as far as I see it (that's just me being me) and it will take a good year, before they can bounce back to what they wanted to release. But people don't understand that and they knew that, Bioware and EA, always knew that, yet they took the dangerous path. No one asked them to do that and no gamer requested that. The gamers of today are far more educated than those of the past, they adapt quicker, respond faster to any sort of gameplay mechanic and are well enough openly minded to try out and find new things to experience (look at the meteoric rise of Minecraft). p.s God I wish they would have waited and worked on this some more. 2013 would had been a near perfect release date. But alas, EA. From what I've heard and read and seen reported, Bioware wanted more time to work on this game and polish it up, but EA said no. I can believe this because, as you've pointed out, Bioware is no small company and knows what they're doing while EA is a known corporate dog; all EA cares about is sales. Bioware's normal peak efficiency is poor here, but I honestly think with pressure from LucasArts to make this as awesome as possible and pressure from EA to do so as quickly as possible... They just couldn't do it as well as they should've. This is part of the reason for the entirety of my post. A lot of people seem to think it should be easy to polish this game quickly and efficiently, but if Bioware wanted more time to do so BEFORE launching it, chances are it is more than just polish they need to use and that's spoken for by the amount of bugs and missing features. I guess it irks me that Bioware's good name is being tarnished because of EA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabigbom Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Then I have served my purpose on this thread. Cantina wench! Bring this girl a fine mug of Sullustan brandy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Then I have served my purpose on this thread. Cantina wench! Bring this girl a fine mug of Sullustan brandy. I giggled just a little at the thought of a cantina wench. I'm now tempted to make a character named Wench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyNightArrow Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) From what I've heard and read and seen reported, Bioware wanted more time to work on this game and polish it up, but EA said no. I can believe this because, as you've pointed out, Bioware is no small company and knows what they're doing while EA is a known corporate dog; all EA cares about is sales. Bioware's normal peak efficiency is poor here, but I honestly think with pressure from LucasArts to make this as awesome as possible and pressure from EA to do so as quickly as possible... They just couldn't do it as well as they should've. This is part of the reason for the entirety of my post. A lot of people seem to think it should be easy to polish this game quickly and efficiently, but if Bioware wanted more time to do so BEFORE launching it, chances are it is more than just polish they need to use and that's spoken for by the amount of bugs and missing features. I guess it irks me that Bioware's good name is being tarnished because of EA. And, this is why I am sticking with the game. I figure with a lot of players rage quitting, BioWare needs a few loyal players who will stick with them no matter what. Besides, there are a lot of aspects to the game that far outweigh some of the glitches. And, yes, I have run into at least one potentially "game breaking" glitch, but there's a workaround for it. So, I use it an move on with the show. Personally, I think BioWare is doing a fantastic job in spite of who they are working with. I say keep bringing on those patches. Eventually, TOR will be where BioWare wanted it to be before release. And, then they can start concentrating on all of the nifty goodies they have in store for the game. I'm okay with that. Of course, I'm just one person. Edited February 6, 2012 by LadyNightArrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 And, this is why I am sticking with the game. I figure with a lot of players rage quitting, BioWare needs a few loyal players who will stick with them no matter what. Besides, there are a lot of aspects to the game that far outweigh some of the glitches. And, yes, I have run into at least one potentially "game breaking" glitch, but there's a workaround for it. So, I use it an move on with the show. Personally, I think BioWare is doing a fantastic job in spite of who they are working with. I say keep bringing on those patches. Eventually, TOR will be where BioWare wanted it to be before release. And, then they can start concentrating on all of the nifty goodies they have in store for the game. I'm okay with that. Of course, I'm just one person. Agreed! :] Though the glitch I came across last night doesn't have a work around that I saw. I've updated my ticket a few times to include the new things I discovered about it today (since it involves a quest that is now stuck in my questlog). Also, thread now backed up in a word doc. Woo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faeon Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Finally! A post that I will actually reply to. Your post was very informative, and I hope that allot of people read it and understand what you are trying to say, but sadly allot of people won't. When it comes to releases of massive games like SWTOR, people have there own expectations, and they want the game to be how they see it, not what is practical and doable. If people actually had to see what the Bioware Dev Team is doing in there offices, and seeing the programmers going through the massive wall of coding text, trying to find one little problem, they will realize that it is not as simple as it looks. It is sad to see people rage on the forums, and make posts like "I quit give me a reason to stay" posts and how this game fails. This game is massive, and it will always be in development mode, MMO'S are never a finished product, and we will continually see bugs, exploits and new features coming up. Bioware is doing the best they can do, within the budgets and timeline they have, and a little bit of patience will go along way. Back to work now thanks OP for putting in the time and effort to make a good post To the Bioware team, keep up the good work, and I am sure there are many people who are appreciative of what you are doing and what you have accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Thank you! ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Why isn't this stickied? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daxer Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Im just going to say it like it is even though everyone knows, A LOT of people are comparing this to games like "World of Warcraft" and are whining about how WoW can do this and that. They forget that even WoW didn't have most of its features after the release, it took them years to add onto the game (3 expansions and loads of patches) SWTOR could very well be compared to Vanilla WoW in its first months. Even though this was released in 2011 (almost 12) you can't ask for anymore than that, if you want this game to basicly be WoW with lightsabers then im sorry, they can not just go and outright copy a game. Besides, why did you quit WoW if you are just going to come here anyway and whine about how this could be like the game you just came from. I personally love the game, i've been wanting a mmorpg with a singleplayer based gameplay for a LONG time. I love it and i would gladly pay more money just to get more conversation / quest options with my companions. One more thing, if you encounter bugs, dont be afraid to go report it with as many details (even video and screenshots) how you think you triggered it. Now lets go back to play this game and even help improve it if we can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) Why isn't this stickied? Do they sticky these kinds of threads? @Daxer;; Yeah, everyone assumes it's easy to implement all those cool features in one go and it's not always that easy. Sometimes it's better to have a stable game running first and then implement those features afterwards. And we all know that this game isn't exactly "stable" all the time. xD But it's a great game and I'm sure eventually they'll get those things implemented. I was a little sad to see that there isn't a folder for screen shots in game. Or at least, not one that I could find. Edited February 7, 2012 by Brosephiine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy_Saenz Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Awesome Post! I totally missed that this thread existed so I created my own today (it is probably lost in the pages of other threads). It is nice to have a fellow Game Dev on the forums speaking the truth and helping set more realistic expectations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Awesome Post! I totally missed that this thread existed so I created my own today (it is probably lost in the pages of other threads). It is nice to have a fellow Game Dev on the forums speaking the truth and helping set more realistic expectations Well, I'm not a game dev yet... and I'd only be an artist. But I did think it'd be a good learning exercise for myself as well as others. Good to know how things work, imo. :] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hmm. I'm a little disappointed in the art community here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amonette Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Nice article You got a mention on TORWars: http://torwars.com/2012/02/07/social-points-heard-it-on-the-grapevine/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Nice article You got a mention on TORWars: http://torwars.com/2012/02/07/social-points-heard-it-on-the-grapevine/ Oh wow! That's so cool! Thanks for showing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiningriver Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Hmm. I'm a little disappointed in the art community here. How so? Out of Topic: I also do art, but rarely have the time lately. Posting my deviant link on my siggy Edited February 7, 2012 by Shiningriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) How so? Out of Topic: I also do art, but rarely have the time lately. Posting my deviant link on my siggy Ahh the usual I think. Lack of interest in my own art. I've posted two of my swtor pieces so far with not even a harsh critique! D: I'm such a kid when it comes to my art. xD I post in this state of mind: "OMG gaiz look it's so pretty! Look what I did! Look! Look!" And then I don't get any replies and I'm like: "*SOBSOB* Y U NO LIEK MY ART?" I like your art! the wallpaper is really nice. Edited February 7, 2012 by Brosephiine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiningriver Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thanks Is this your thread? I like the style. I'll leave my comments there. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=218420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thanks Is this your thread? I like the style. I'll leave my comments there. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=218420 Yeah, that one's the first I did but I was too lazy to find it again. xD I posted this yesterday 'cause I finished the piece yesterday and was so damn proud of it. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=276688 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiningriver Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I just woke up an hour ago and the next thing I know, I was reading through the CS forums. My God. Yes, I understand we are paying customers (who's not paying here? This is a sub-based game) and yes we have issues in game that needs to be addressed, and yes we are customers that needed to be pampered. I imagine that the guys working there are working overtime to get everything resolved. Complaining or even taking negative action will not make the situation better. That may include my post, too. I'm having a migraine. Sorry. I will rest for a while, since I badly need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 I just woke up an hour ago and the next thing I know, I was reading through the CS forums. My God. Yes, I understand we are paying customers (who's not paying here? This is a sub-based game) and yes we have issues in game that needs to be addressed, and yes we are customers that needed to be pampered. I imagine that the guys working there are working overtime to get everything resolved. Complaining or even taking negative action will not make the situation better. That may include my post, too. I'm having a migraine. Sorry. I will rest for a while, since I badly need it. You're right, actually. A lot of the people working on this game are probably pulling a lot of overtime to make sure things are running smoothly, or as smooth as they can make them right now. Sorry you're not feeling well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiningriver Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 You're right, actually. A lot of the people working on this game are probably pulling a lot of overtime to make sure things are running smoothly, or as smooth as they can make them right now. Sorry you're not feeling well. Thanks. I'm actually doing a program right now... just a simple minesweeper thing, but I think I'll do it later when I actually get some rest and meds... T_T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thanks. I'm actually doing a program right now... just a simple minesweeper thing, but I think I'll do it later when I actually get some rest and meds... T_T Feeling good helps productivity a lot. Trust me I know. x_X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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